Leonardo | Art Playing Cards now live on KS

[PrincessTrouble]

Just received the decks. Isn't the limited edition supposed to be a gilded deck? Maybe I misunderstood because my English is not good...

I haven't gotten my decks yet, but I thought the Platinum deck was supposed to be gilded.

[Bruno]

The Cards will be gilded.
Then there is ....
The Decks will be gilded.

There's a conundrum if ever.
Umberto Eco would have problems with it ....

[decibelhz]

I got a platinum and silver edition so I'll add them as soon as I receive my decks which will be soon hopefully.

[badpete69]

Just got my decks today... great art

[montecarlojoe]

I like the decks very much but I agree I was a little disappointed with the platinum edition - the original description is this:

Specifications: Midnight black tuck with black-on-black inks, foil Jack, embossed details. Sealed with a custom designed, perforated stamp. The cards will be printed on ultra-smooth paper stock, gilded, coated with an iridescent finish.

The cards are clearly described as gilded with an iridescent finish - but neither seem to be the case.

Did I miss something in one of the updates?

[badpete69]

I know i might be stretching here but is it possible that he meant the back of the cards was gilded in some way?

[montecarlojoe]

I don't see anything...

[shermjack]

Has anyone who ordered a Platinum reached out to Dent and asked about the Platinum deck?

[badpete69]

I did Sherm.. He told me he would stop by to clarify everything

[sinjin7]

I like the decks very much but I agree I was a little disappointed with the platinum edition - the original description is this:

Specifications: Midnight black tuck with black-on-black inks, foil Jack, embossed details. Sealed with a custom designed, perforated stamp. The cards will be printed on ultra-smooth paper stock, gilded, coated with an iridescent finish.

The cards are clearly described as gilded with an iridescent finish - but neither seem to be the case.

Did I miss something in one of the updates?

I still haven't received my decks, I got 2 of each color. I added 2 Platinum decks specifically because it was a gilded deck and I expected silver gilt edges. Are you saying its not gilded?!? Some people wanted confirmation of the gilding when the Platinum edition was announced, and here is a post by his daughter in this very thread:

My dad is super busy with the last hours of the campaign as you can easily imagine… As Leonardo is such a success, I dropped my other work and I am helping him out with all the admin stuff. The final page also has to be done, getting everything ready before the last hour strikes.

We’ll post Platinum courts in the days (and weeks) following, in upcoming The Leonardo Sunday Times, which is backers only. Yes, Platinum is a gilded, limited edition. And soon sold out

If the Platinum edition is not in fact gilded, I will feel incredibly mislead. I do NOT want to hear excuses about semantics. When you use the term "gilded" in relation to playing cards, especially a limited edition, it has a very specific meaning: a metallic finish on the edges of the deck. You cannot say gilding meant something else, especially with his daughter confirming the gilding on the limited edition. This could be a reputation breaker.

[badpete69]

If the Platinum edition is not in fact gilded, I will feel incredibly mislead. I do NOT want to hear excuses about semantics. When you use the term "gilded" in relation to playing cards, especially a limited edition, it has a very specific meaning: a metallic finish on the edges of the deck. You cannot say gilding meant something else, especially with his daughter confirming the gilding on the limited edition. This could be a reputation breaker.

I don't think he is saying or insinuating something else. I was hoping he would answer when I messaged him but all he said is that he would stop by. Let's wait and see what the explanation is. I did go through all updates to see if anything had changed from the first announcement and it doesn't appear it did. So how many people opened their platinum decks and can show pics of the non gilded edges?

[Dent-de-Lion]

Hello!

First of all, thank you badpete69 for all help and support.

As you might know, Leonardo was my first (!) playing card project. The Kickstarter campaign was a tremendous success, well beyond everyone’s expectations. And for that I would like to thank all the Leonardo backers here on UC.

Edition Platinum, from a design perspective, was conceived as a 180 degree shift from Edition Gold and Edition Silver. The Old versus the New. Leonardo in the 21st century. A modern take on the old legend. As a designer, I played with many ideas of how to achieve this.

One of those ideas was to gild the edges of the cards. In my ongoing discussions with Lawrence at Legends about materials and print techniques, we realized that gilding was not the optimal way to differentiate the Editions. Also, gilding is not recommended when the backs are to be printed to the edges, which was integral to the design and could not be changed. In the end we achieved our design goals through other means, including unique choices on card stock, color, ink and foil.

There was never any intention to mislead anyone. That being said, if you are not satisfied with Edition Platinum as is, I will certainly refund your money. I want everyone to be happy with their Leonardo rewards. So if you had your heart set on Edition Platinum being gilded, please contact me and I will issue you a prompt refund.

I apologize for not communicating earlier that Edition Platinum was not gilded here in this forum and for this oversight I am truly sorry. That being said, I am highly satisfied with the beautiful production of this my first playing card project, and am especially pleased with how all the decks have been received by my wonderful backers worldwide. Working together with Lawrence at Legends has been a real joy and his guidance for a newbie card producer has been invaluable.

Once again, thank you all for your help in making Leonardo a success!

kind regards,

Dent-de-Lion

[montecarlojoe]

Was a similar decision made about the iridescent finish?

I personally don't mind whether you communicated the decision here, but I can't see it communicated anywhere. If it was please point it out and I'll happily accept that its my own fault for not having read the fine print (caveat emptor and all that)

If it's a case of "I changed my mind but didn't tell anyone" then you know I'm going to be a bit cheesed off!

Gilding and special coatings come at a cost - which was built-in in to the original Platinum add-on price. The minute you decide to not add those features, you decide not to pay for them, and keep that money. (I do appreciate that you are offering refunds and that it was more likely an oversight than money-grab - but just pointing out where people may get a tad angry)

On a personal level I was looking forward to the iridescent finish. I've seen it on tuck boxes but never on the cards themselves - this was the UNIQUE feature that would have set them apart from anything else.

Don't misunderstand - the work you put in is obvious and painstaking, and I do like the standard decks very much.

[ecNate]

I personally don't mind whether you communicated the decision here, but I can't see it communicated anywhere. If it was please point it out and I'll happily accept that its my own fault for not having read the fine print (caveat emptor and all that)

Exactly, in fact it STILL says that
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/32 ... escription

Leonardo | Edition Platinum will be a deck to bring out and admire again and again. With it’s understated elegance, Platinum is a work of Art embodying the highest standards of modern playing card design and manufacturing.

Specifications: Midnight black tuck with black-on-black inks, foil Jack, embossed details. Sealed with a custom designed, perforated stamp. The cards will be printed on ultra-smooth paper stock, gilded, coated with an iridescent finish.

And please don't tell me it was in the 'Leonardo Sunday Times' edition 564 either. Clearly somebody told you backers like frequent updates, but I HATED those updates. I back many projects and I'm not going to read an entire newsletter on the weekly when the subject is utterly useless and after reading only then find out none of it applied to my backing level. Give updates when an update is needed, not just because an entire 7 days has passed, and when doing so make the heading clear what the update is about.

You're offering refunds which is really the only right thing to do at this stage and we understand it was your first project, but we're not just raving mad lunatics, we also want to help you LEARN and IMPROVE. I really love my Leonardo deck and it's one of my top 5% of decks I have, I'll probably back your future projects, especially if you show you learn from mistakes and try and correct any past damage. Good luck!

[Dent-de-Lion]

Hello Monte Carlo Joe,

The final decisions about how to produce all three Editions were made over the course of many long consultations with Lawrence at Legends. We had one goal in mind, to make the finest First Edition Collection we could, with the resources available.

Yes, you are correct that each individual feature has it’s particular cost. All three Editions ended up more expensive than originally planed, but money was never the most important factor in the design process, it was all about being true to the original concept of each deck.

To me as an Artist and designer, single “features” are interchangeable and are individually unimportant - “the whole” is everything. But as I said, this is my first card project, and I was unaware that to some collectors, individual features are everything.

Edition Platinum does have a distinct sheen to it. No, it’s not iridescent, but we plan to work towards that with the Second Edition. We knew we needed to be conservative in the First Edition, and not try too many special FX. Iridescent inks and finishes need the perfect touch to pull them off, I would need more pre-press runs and much more time to feel comfortable that it would contribute to the total feeling of the Edition before saying “go”.

I will do a Second Edition soon because Leonardo is almost sold out now, and we haven’t even begun to get cards to all the post Kickstarter interested people. Iridescence, gilding, and other special FX will be back on the table, but this time I will not mention them specifically, but talk only about the design feeling I am looking for. This will avoid any misunderstanding.

In closing, I’m pleased you like the standard decks, thank you so very much!

kind regards,

Dent-de-Lion

[Dent-de-Lion]

Dear ecNate,

I’m truly sorry you hated the Leonardo Sunday Times, although from my correspondence I believe you are the only person to do so. So many backers, certainly in the hundreds, have reached out to tell me how much they loved and enjoyed it, and appreciated the way I ran both the campaign and the post-campaign process. Please accept my apologies for disappointing you with this aspect of the project.

On a more positive note, I am so pleased that you consider Leonardo in your 5% of all your decks, that’s very kind of you.

And I agree with you… learning and improving is important for Card Creators... perhaps you would agree that it’s equally important for Card Collectors too?

Once again, thank you for your interest in both Leonardo and my future projects, and the very best of luck to you too!

kind regards,

Dent-de-Lion

[montecarlojoe]

Thanks for the reply.

I appreciate that you took expert counsel, and that from a design point of view you took the course you felt best fit your vision and practicality - however advertising one thing and producing another is no way to engender trust in repeat customers.

The same thing goes for the cost issue - you could have lost money over all, and I do believe you had the best intentions - but people will draw their own conclusions based on what they know - perception is important.

As an artist your vision is everything - this is your art and what we take from it is up to us. If we don't understand it that's our problem.
As a salesman (and like it or not when you go the Kickstarter route that's what you are), perception and trust is everything. There's no room for interpretation.

I don't believe there was any animosity on your part at all - but hopefully it's a lesson learnt.

[Cbkimble]

I had a bad feeling about this project during funding and, although the artwork is beautiful, I'm glad I didn't back it, nor will I support the artist in the future.

[MagikFingerz]

I had a bad feeling about this project during funding and, although the artwork is beautiful, I'm glad I didn't back it, nor will I support the artist in the future.

Sadly, these are my thoughts as well. I also detect very little humility and a bit of condescension in Dent's posts, although I am aware that reading between the lines of pure text is not reliable. But this is clearly a big oversight on his part, and if I was a backer I would expect MUCH more humility from him to rebuild the loss in trust.

[sinjin7]

To me as an Artist and designer, single “features” are interchangeable and are individually unimportant - “the whole” is everything. But as I said, this is my first card project, and I was unaware that to some collectors, individual features are everything.

When a designer puts out a deck on Kickstarter, it's often times just a concept in the artist's mind. We, as backers, have no tangible product to examine, so the only thing we have to go off of is the features which comprise the product as described by the designer. I am baffled that you claim to be unaware that individual features would be important to collectors. Particularly from someone who listed his credentials as one who is experienced in bringing concept to reality for consumers through his work with Lego, among other things. Iridescence and gilded edges were massive features meant to be inducements for supporters to pay a higher premium for your Platinum deck. How can you, with your background and experience, in good conscience claim that you were actually unaware that omitting such important features would cause a negative reaction from your supporters?

There was never any intention to mislead anyone. . .I apologize for not communicating earlier that Edition Platinum was not gilded here in this forum and for this oversight I am truly sorry.

I feel that your offer to refund backers who are unsatisfied with the Platinum deck is the appropriate remedy. And while I appreciate your apology for not informing members of this forum of your decision not to include the iridescent finish and gilded edges, you are implying that you have made such disclosure elsewhere. As montecarlojoe previously reqeusted, I would like for you to provide evidence that you announced such ommision of features anywhere in your Kickstarter campaign or Kickstarter updates. If you are able to do so, that would put my mind (and many other's) at ease about your trustworthiness in future projects. I will end my post with a final quote from you:

Pledging on kickstarter is a way to back the dreams of creators, who share their lives, aspirations and dreams with the world. Artist and creators depend on their projects to feed their families, and misinformation can harm a fine reputation and affect the fundraising process.

[arrowhead]

Just got my decks! Thank you Mr. Du Midi for creating such a beautiful set of cards. Each individual card is truly a surprise and delights the eye. What a wonderful work of art this is.

I guess my favorite edition is gold with platinum (I got #318 / 1000) a close second. Can’t make myself open silver!

Looking forward to your next KS, care to drop us a hint?

[sms69x]

Reading the creator's replay about him not delivering what he promised made me smile but at the same time made me feel outraged...
So the creator used well-chosen keywords that he knew would make collectors jump in without a blink and then he excuses with:

... I was unaware that to some collectors, individual features are everything.

This must be some kind of a joke for sure.

All in all this isn't something that we shouldn't expect, because after the campaign was over he decided to go with LPCC for the three decks, when one of the reached stretch goals was to print the Gold and Silver editions with USPCC.
This was a great maneuver from the creator to get some extra money from a color variation of the "standard" decks, well played.

Now he can do a second edition with all the features he promised for the first, I think that if he's really going to do a second edition he should give the backers that payed an heavy price for the first a fair discount, to compensate them.

I'm cutting in KS projects and only support some of the great creators (JR, Lotrek, Lorenzo, and a few others) and this guy did a great job for me to decide not to support him in the future.

[jerichoholic]

I'm not sure some are going to be willing to pledge for another version knowing that you might make changes later on just to suit your needs.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

I'm not sure some are going to be willing to pledge for another version knowing that you might make changes later on just to suit your needs.

I regretfully have to agree. I love the decks and the art is incredible but he will have to do a giant Mea Culpa at this point to recover. While I am sure there was no outright dishonesty, a lot of mistakes were made that need addressing and clarification before another campaign.

That being said I hope he does learn from this and make the needed changes for another campaign. It would be a shame for great art to fall by the wayside for such easy things to fix.

[RickardSmith]

I agree with the previous posters. I would not have paid such a high price for the plat editions if i knew they weren't going to be gilded... I believe a refund is the only way to safe face at this point

[jsantafe]

I agree with the previous posters. I would not have paid such a high price for the plat editions if i knew they weren't going to be gilded... I believe a refund is the only way to safe face at this point

Refund seems to be a good exit a this point for the creator, not so much for the backers. "I've done something (no gilding) because I am an artist (good one, I agree), if you don't like, here's your money". Black or white is really unfair. He can say whatever he wants in KS, get the money, produce something different and give back the funds to a really small number of backers.

This is the best way to get a loan to finance your product.

The fair thing would be a partial refund or a gift. He saved money from not gilding the decks (if there were extra costs he had to cover, it's a planning problem, can't be passed to backers), if that is replaced by other feature or extra, great. Artist decision, we might disagree, but same "value". But otherwise, and talking in economic terms and not artistic, the good received has a lesser value than the one advertised.

I really like the art, but this kind of things are extremely bad for a creators reputation.

Then there's the communication problem that has been addressed already.

[Dent-de-Lion]

Thank you all for your opinions, they are sincerely appreciated.

Anyone who would like to return their Edition Platinum decks, please PM me here on UC and we’ll arrange a full refund.

To those of you who are delighted with their Leonardo Playing Cards, thank you so much, I’m pleased that you find beauty in my work.

kind regards,

Dent-de-Lion

[Kleetz]

Thank you all for your opinions, they are sincerely appreciated.

Anyone who would like to return their Edition Platinum decks, please PM me here on UC and we’ll arrange a full refund.

To those of you who are delighted with their Leonardo Playing Cards, thank you so much, I’m pleased that you find beauty in my work.

kind regards,

Dent-de-Lion

Got my decks over the weekend. I was worried that they were going to be beat to hell as they were delivered in a bubble envelope, but they survived the trip. Haven't opened them yet, but they look nice from the tuck.

Thanks!

[PrincessTrouble]

Got my decks last night. Of the three, the Platinum edition is my favorite. Although, had I known it wasn't going to be gilded or have the iridescence, I would have only pledged for one Platinum deck rather than two. The Gold edition is pretty sweet, too.

Oddly, my package was devoid of any Lego minifigs. Dent-de-Lion?

[sinjin7]

There was never any intention to mislead anyone. . .I apologize for not communicating earlier that Edition Platinum was not gilded here in this forum and for this oversight I am truly sorry.

I feel that your offer to refund backers who are unsatisfied with the Platinum deck is the appropriate remedy. And while I appreciate your apology for not informing members of this forum of your decision not to include the iridescent finish and gilded edges, you are implying that you have made such disclosure elsewhere. As montecarlojoe previously reqeusted, I would like for you to provide evidence that you announced such ommision of features anywhere in your Kickstarter campaign or Kickstarter updates. If you are able to do so, that would put my mind (and many other's) at ease about your trustworthiness in future projects.

As I feared, Dent-de-Lion is ignoring our request that he provide evidence of him disclosing his decision to omit the iridescent finish and gilding elsewhere during his Kickstarter campaign. Dent-de-Lion's silence speaks volumes. Unfortunately for me, this misinformation has harmed his reputation and I will not be supporting any future projects from him. I just hope he follows through with his promise of a full refund at least.