SIDESHOW - I'm starting to have a lot of fun with this. :)

[Gina]

I designed a deck of playing cards that I think is pretty cool. I can't do card tricks or magic, but I'm slightly fascinated by those who can. When I look at kickstarter and the posts here on United Cardists, I'm a bit overwhelmed. I need you to give it to me straight. What bells and whistles are necessary for a successful campaign? I see embossing... foil...custom seals...metallic this.....different card stocks... different coatings. Can I do an impromptu survey to find out your "must haves" in a custom deck? With that being said, isn't it frustrating to have to wait to "stretch goals" to get all the beautiful upgrades? Why don't people just offer the upgraded deck right off the bat, and then add perks like display cases, chips and coins for stretch goals?

If someone has already covered this, please just point me in the right direction. I try to work "smarter not harder". I really dig my artwork. I really want to see my cards in a collection of someone who'll appreciate them, but man oh man all this bling confuses me.

Hope to hear back from someone. - Gina
PS - I know everyone's time is valuable - if you give me constructive feedback, I'll make sure to send you some of my fun giveaways for the kickstarter campaign. I'm an optimist you know.

[montecarlojoe]

You don't really need any bells or whistles if the design is solid - the key is for everyone else to dig your artwork

The rationale behind stretch goals adding features like this is to help guarantee being able to produce anything at all at the basic goal. the more that's pledged over that amount, the more features you'll be able to afford to add.

Of course some are a gimme and you KNOW you'll get them, but that gives a project impetus - those that pledge feel they are getting more for their money, are more likely to plug your product FOR YOU to get to that next goal. It gives your customers a sense of achievement - and the better they feel the more generous they will be.
It's psychology and game theory 101 - and it's basically win-win.

Of course there's no reason not to jump in with all the shiney shiney and have extras like display cases, chips and so on - but you are relying on people wanting those things and having pockets deep enough to afford them (and ship them - NOT a trivial thing when you can expect at least 20% of your customer base will be overseas)

Basically I'd say you can't polish a turd, but you can overdress. A good design will sell anyway, and the extras will simply enhance what's already there...

So, with that in mind show us what you have - I'm ready to dig

[Gina]

heh heh - I've never heard the "overdress a turd" reference... add sugar and call it a baby ruth.. YES but never overdress...
I wasn't expecting a reply so quickly!! OK- give me 2 seconds and I'll post a few of the cards... you're not gonna make me cry if you hate it...
pretty sure.
Eh - if you hate it just add some cute emoticon or quote about motivation so I feel better about myself!!

[Kleetz]

You don't really need any bells or whistles if the design is solid - the key is for everyone else to dig your artwork

Came here to say this, left satisfied.

[Gina]

wow- didn't realize I needed to have images hosted on another page Show's you how much of a newbie I am to message boards - OK- 2 mins turkish. I got this.

No bells and whistles though, eh?? Can anyone find a link to a successful campaign with no bells and whistles?? (see what I just did? I asked for your opinion, then I questioned it AND asked for proof)... sorry... I promise I'm not trying to be a pain My brain hurts from 100 kickstarter video tutorials, my kickstarter for dummies book and these decks of cards that look like rolls royces. I feel like mine is an old chevy... not even like a cool seville...

[Gina]

My deck is inspired by sideshow banners.

[Gina]

So, with that in mind show us what you have

[ecNate]

Basically I'd say you can't polish a turd

Exact phrase that came to mind when I read this.

Now that we see some samples I would say that artwork is good enough and you followed general conventions so it should just be some nitpicking and personal preferences, but without a back (EDIT - see that posted now and it is workable) and tuck (which are VERY important to many) it's hard to really say for sure. I would also say this theme has been done a few times before, including a low cost option (http://www.bicyclecards.com/product/bic ... ing-cards/ & http://amazon.com/Bicycle-Sideshow-Frea ... B00D2LWIHM) so that will be a slight challenge. There's also a bias against decks with faux aged looks, but yours is a better one.

I think this may have a shot at funding if you do it right, although personally this theme and artistic style isn't one for me to jump in, mostly because I'm making a serious effort at cutting back.

My greater concern would be your ability to properly manage and estimate the business side, just based on the questions. Getting answers sure helps, but if you have to ask some of these things, what else might you not have experience with? Far too many projects end up having to fund shipping and other things themselves because they didn't do a proper financial analysis.

[IAmTheChin]

You don't really need any bells or whistles if the design is solid - the key is for everyone else to dig your artwork

The rationale behind stretch goals adding features like this is to help guarantee being able to produce anything at all at the basic goal.

Gina, ^^This.

For the basics, you can completely ignore everything. Just make a great product. Those bells and whistles are nice luxuries AFTER your product is funded. It is not necessary for a great product - see Arcana. The way that this question was phrased makes me feel like it was from a mindset that foil and embossing is the norm. It shouldn't be. When you start bottom up instead of top down it makes way more sense. That's how you'll be building your community as well. You're taking them on a journey with you to get the best possible product available.

We don't want the creator in a position where they overcommit and can't fulfill the project. No one wins that way. Get the foot in the door. Base deck. Build from there. Foil and embossing happen to be prevalent because they're easy differentiators that make your deck special. But you can sure make your own deck special in another way and get people excited.

Personal opinion (of controversy) I absolutely loved the idea of the scratch and sniff bacon cards. LOVED it. Wouldn't dare put it near my collection but thought it was unique. Didn't need foil or embossing at all.

Best of luck Gina!

[Gina]

I appreciate the feedback very much EC Nate and IamtheChin. EC Nate, I've read a LOT of articles about planning your campaign properly so there's no issues with fulfillment and that's why I'm trying to get a better grasp of the process from you gentlemen. I've received quotes from 3 different printers and everyone has been super nice!! I just want to set a reasonable goal and achieve it. I want to fulfill my orders quickly (if funded) so I can make the entire experience fun for both me and the buyer!! I can't learn here if I don't ask questions!!!!

[shermjack]

You might want to check out the deck competition of PlayingCardForum...though entries were accepted until yesterday, Aug 5, I believe that there is only one entry so far and Don might make an exception if you contact him now

(Edit) It's still the 5th in the US (6th already on Asia), so you should be OK

[Gina]

I will definitely check it out Shermjack... thanks for the suggestion.

[Gina]

(Edit) It's still the 5th in the US (6th already on Asia), so you should be OK [/quote]

I just wrote him direct!! Fingers crossed I'm not too late!
Thanks so much for the suggestion!!

[Gina]

Black or red?


With maybe just one bell and one little whistle, I can do the kickstarter campaign at a low price and make it a fun event!!!! I can devote the necessary time to answer questions, give feedback and keep everything on track!! I understand trust is earned, and not given, so my number 1 goal would be customer satisfaction! Again, any feedback is very much appreciated and I promise to send some of my "kickstarter add ons" and treats to anyone who's helped me along the way!

[flashcards]

Gina,

You might also want to check out Sawdust by Emmanuel Jose on Kickstarter. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/em ... escription

Although this is more of a circus theme rather than a carnival theme like yours, there are some similarities, especially the back of card being an admittance ticket. Mr. Jose is one of the most respected card designers out there and is very popular with collectors. You can see that he has very few "bells and whistles" in his project. Notice the tuck case is simple but very strong and distinctive. He just builds from a base of solid quality artwork which, by the way, is all done from paper cutouts! He sets the bar pretty high but I think you might get some inspiration from his work.

I'm sure you've also noticed the strong printers bias here. USPCC and EPCC are more expensive and have higher minimums but they produce the kind of quality product that many collectors demand.

I throw my vote in with the others: a deck with a strong theme, good artwork, printed by a quality printer is the way to go. Best of luck to you.

[Gina]

I just clicked on the Sawdust link from your message....
wow.... love love LOVE it. I especially love that every single card is unique in his set... how he tied in the 2 of clubs as her earring and the cannonball in the 6 of clubs. All done with paper cutouts...... heh heh - everything I've ever created with a glue gun, scissors and a paper cutout has been a nightmare!! (wait - i take that back - I did a pretty amazing homemade piñata this past 4th of July) I really appreciate the link and info flashcards. You've got my creative mind going a mile and a minute!! The team at EPCC has been very nice to me. I'm hoping to do business with them, once I'm clear on what upgrades I wanted for the set.

[Magasaki]

I like the artwork on this, love the card back (Sawdust is one of my favorite decks ever so the similarities are a plus for me). Add ons are great in a project when they don't feel like you 'need' to buy them. Some projects try to force you to pledge for more than you really want to by having multiple deck colors and limited editions. Purely optional add-ons such as uncut sheets and perhaps coins (which incidentally would work great with your theme) can be nice to have.

But just to echo what's been said before, the artwork / design of the card is the most important factor to me. If I like that then I'll likely back the project, if I don't like it then I wont. It's really that simple.

[Gina]

I appreciate the feedback very much. I also like the idea of "add ons" that are just fun bonus items, that make the whole experience more entertaining! I'm a photographer by trade, so I have a cool idea for an "add o"n that I think might be well received. I think Since this is my first campaign, I think I'll keep it simple to help build backer's confidence in me! Nice custom cards. Nice custom tuck box. Uncut sheets (like you suggested) as an add on...a few other fun add ons... Maybe the only stretch goal I'll shoot for is the custom seal upgrade. Those look nice. I've worked with a poker chip company for years that I love. They give me wholesale pricing and the turnaround is under a week. (they print ceramics here stateside). Do you think offering a few different color denominations as an "add on" is a good idea, along with a custom dealer button? If the EPCC prints my cards, my other add ons would all be from stateside vendors which saves so much time!

[flashcards]

I like the idea of poker chips, coin/dealer buttons, and dice as add-ons. If the fluff items are cool enough, I don't feel bad about picking one or more items up. If it is a project I'm really excited about (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/st ... ying-cards) on the other hand, I tend to go all in on the trinkets. It all depends on how the original design resonates with me. It sounds like you are on the right track. Be sure to share more of your designs as you finish them. I have yet to see a project that didn't benefit from the advice given here...although I have seen several fail because they ignored said advice. Best of luck.

[Gina]

So, sooooo glad I joined this page and the Playing Card forum... I'm learning a lot in a short amount of time!! I'll do the poker chips since I have a good relationship with the manufacturer, but since I'm a photographer, I think I'll try a different type of "add on" for my campaign. heh heh - you'll either love it or hate it!!

OK- new question - THE VIDEO... My cards are inspired by sideshow banner art. I was thinking about bringing a little "sideshow flair" into my short and sweet video clip. I've been reading up on this - supposedly all bad videos include the following:
1. BAD AUDIO
2. LONG RUN TIME
3. ZERO MOTIVATION
4. ZERO CONFIDENCE
Is a witty video "in character" for the sideshow a mistake??? I don't want you to watch my little video and shake your head laughing, "oh that poor girl - what the he** was she thinking)

[Mike Ratledge]

Gina, all the advice you have gotten here is sound. Just Polish things as best you can and also be prepared to follow advice from your backers.

As far as the video, it's not required, but decks with them usually do better. You already hit the high points, just keep it reasonably shirt - 90 seconds to two minutes max.

I added you to the Deck Artist group. Good luck!

[montecarlojoe]

^ What Mike said. I'd add that a little flair and personality don't hurt. If you wan't to do it in 'Big Top' character I say go for it!

[JacksonRobinson]

Most collector's and designers will jump into quick and say "You don't need all the bells and whistles"

As a designer and collector you should view the "bells and whistles" as tools not "bells and whistles" Ink, Foil, Embossing, paper stock and everything else are all tools to creating a solid design. I personally believe as long as artists and designers view and approach the "bells and whistles" as bells and whistles we will continue to see a poor use of the tools that we as designers are given. You can have a incredible design with or without the bells and whistles. Most designers will start without them and the add them as a stretch goal after the fact. My question would be then, "Did you create the design with foiling/embossing (or what ever else you would like to replace) in mind or did you just shoe horn it in after the fact, into the design just because you wanted to add a stretch.

Yes you should absolutely think through your project and also NOT overextend yourself but if you want foiling, embossing or scratch and sniff paper. Create your design from the beginning with that in mind because all aspects of the design are of equal weight when it comes to creating a solid design.

If your original design included foiling but you don't make it then does that mean you'r design is only 90% realized. For the new designers I would say start out small and give your self the most chance of success. Create a solid design with out extra cost items. Don't even think about foil or embossing. Wait until you are ready and comfortable using the tools from the beginning rather than making them "add ons" to your design.

Every aspect of card design is just as important as the other, in order to make a solid product/design. Foil is just as important as card stock if you choose to use them both. But if you choose not to use foiling or whatever then it doesn't matter. Create your design fully realized from the beginning to the end.

good luck.

[Gina]

I appreciate it gents.
Ya know what it is JacksonRobinson? I look at these successful KS campaigns and the stretch goals and add ons SERIOUSLY overwhelm me. I think to myself, "Well that's a bummer. Why not just offer the upgraded deck with all the "bells and whistles" right from the start? It didn't seem fair to me that the original backers who supported you from day 1 have to pay MORE by day 15 to get a nicer version of something they already became a fan of. I don't know, it just feels like a hustle. Am I the only person who thinks this way?

[Gina]

As a designer and collector you should view the "bells and whistles" as tools not "bells and whistles" For the new designers I would say start out small and give your self the most chance of success. Create a solid design with out extra cost items.

I reread your message 4 times. You make valid points. I hadn't thought of the upgrades as tools... I will definitely start small, as you suggested. I appreciate the feedback a lot. - Gina

[vasta41]

It didn't seem fair to me that the original backers who supported you from day 1 have to pay MORE by day 15 to get a nicer version of something they already became a fan of. I don't know, it just feels like a hustle. Am I the only person who thinks this way?

That's not how it works- if a stretch goal gets unlocked due to popularity it's added on at no additional cost to the backer. The reason why, lets call it an upgraded paper stock for example, a project creator wouldn't create the deck this way in the first place is because the artist would rather see his/her dream come to fruition without an upgraded paper stock then risk falling short of a higher goal and never see the deck become a reality.

On the flip side a deck like Cosmic Lanes for example wouldn't have had a stretch goal for glow-in-the-dark features because that was the nuts and bolts of what that deck was about. If you're making a deck of cards tailored to play poker with, you might want to start with the more expensive paper stock in the first place. But it all comes down to what's more important- seeing the deck created at all or having it lack some "bells and whistles"?

Either way stretch goals are different from add-ons. Everything I just talked about is in relation to stretch goals. When backers decide to pay more on an item, it's an add-on. Like a t-shirt or poker chips. The wonder of KS is being able to gauge the demand as the project progresses. If a project barely met it's goal but didn't fund enough to unlock the t-shirts then I guess the t-shirts weren't as popular as the creator thought.

[Gina]

Vasta41 - your post made me immediately think of this:

Ahhhhhhhhhh - now I understand. Thank you for explaining it. I appreciate you not having a derogatory "tone" either! I'm sure all my questions must seem pretty foolish to all you guys with experience so taking the time to explain it to me means a lot.

I just kept looking at these huge campaigns and thinking, "These playing cards are so incredibly fancy with the foil and the embossing and the amazing packaging, do guys even use them when friends come over?"

Wait - now that's a good question. These decks on KS are pretty high speed, and the packaging is beautiful. Do most people keep a deck sealed as a collector's item and then buy another to use or? I'm digging this forum more and more. For me, I want guys to play with my sideshow deck. I want the cards to bring a smile until they can't be played with anymore... then I want them retired to wherever all the overplayed playing cards go to die.

[Gina]

^ What Mike said. I'd add that a little flair and personality don't hurt. If you wan't to do it in 'Big Top' character I say go for it!

heh heh - I mean sure, it's just ME potentially embarrassing myself... eh - I think you're right. I'll go for it.

[Gina]

Black deck or red deck??
hmmmm.....

As for bells and whistles, I appreciate your feedback very much. I think with this being my very first project, I'll keep it simple. Man it's hard to turn down the idea of shiny and embossing!! Maybe I can create a cool cut card with flair. (brain is going a mile a minute now)
Which sideshow character can I do for a custom cut card that would benefit from shiny?? Maybe a shiny sword for a sword swallower? Maybe some cool accent for a fortune teller???
hmmmmmmm

[Mike Ratledge]

Maybe just me, but I think the ref works better.