The Guild Of Artisans by Theory11

[Evan]

Thank you for stopping by Andrei! I received my decks today and am very pleased with them, especially the insanely beautiful tuck box. I really wish that the site had said pre-order, but in my opinion, the wait was worth it.

While you're here, I just want to say that I would really like to see another fully custom deck from T11. Your back designs are great, and the tuck boxes are always awesome, but the faces are always standard, and the exact same color scheme! Please do some more customization with the faces of the decks.

Thanks Evan, saw your fb pictures, deck looks great. I've talked to JB about doing custom court cards but I don't think that's in the plans. We get a lot of positive response from magicians that need to use their gaff cards and such. But I will say this - we are releasing a custom deck with custom faces and it's one of my favorites, it's very fun and unlike anything we've ever done. #hype hype hype. In all seriousness, it's great and it has custom faces! Yay!

Finally! I've been waiting for another fully custom deck from you guys!

[alric]

Holy moly. I'm not sure how much clearer I can put this into words, I have accepted as much responsibility as anyone could have. No one is pointing fingers - although there is plenty to go around.

Holy moly, you're STILL pointing fingers. Trust me, I lose no sleep at night thinking about T11. You still don't get it. This is not the T11 forum filled with fanboys kissing your butts, we're going to express our honest, unfiltered opinions here. By the way, please don't patronize us about spending our hard earned $6.95 for a deck of cards, that is insulting. What we are are a group of people passionate about quality playing cards. All we expect is fair-dealing and transparency from a company who claims to be among the leaders of producing quality playing cards, yet instead you just accuse us of being entitled for having such basic expectations.

You say you don't care for our sympathy, but do care for understanding without insult to your effort in folding boxes. However, its difficult to offer understanding when we see a pattern of substandard customer service and distasteful marketing over the years. You wouldn't be the target of our ire if you were conducting yourselves up to the standards we expect.

I appreciate that you have responded to my "crazy rant" and made an attempt to offer your explanation. Frankly, that was more than what I expected. There's no benefit in going into a point by point rebuttal of your explanation - no one wants that. Suffice it to say, some of your explanations make sense and I can agree with those, others I don't agree with (but you don't care about that). Also, it was not my intent to insult your efforts in folding tuck boxes, but rather to shed light on the fact that that activity should not have been necessary in the first place, and that T11 did a poor job in telling us the truth about the availability of the Artisan decks.

You made one statement that I found profoundly truthful and enlightening, and it was this statement:

"At the end of the day, we're an online magic company that makes magic tricks. Our main audience is 16 year old teenage boys. How much simpler does it get?"

That tells me all I need to know about T11. Please accept my sincerest apologies for having higher expectations than that of your company. I will temper my expectations accordingly in the future.

[walrus]

Look, it is not all of us. I think this angst is not just about this deck. T11 has been making great decks but the hype and server crashes just about everytime a release comes about brings about some anger. Also, most of us feel when we buy a "limited deck" we should have a bit more info on it. Some of your competition gives up exact numbers so I do not think it would put you at a disadvantage, I think it may make your customers feel better about jumping in. So unforunatley the this deck was kind of like the straw that broke the walrus back. I had come on here if the release was done correctly I bet you would be hearing a lot of positive things. I was not getting upset as I new I would get the eventually. I really like what T11 puts out, both magic and cards. I do wish they could do something about the srevers when a release comes about. I am sure by now the must realize what they are doing does not work.

theory11 is a business as any other, we market and hype products like anyone else. Sometimes, it gets out of hand and we crash. I've addressed that in my previous post. No one wants to be suffering the consequences of that EVEN IF conspiracy theories of those decks being priced high on ebay (or elsewhere) thereafter are true (which they aren't). How do I know? Because there's about ten thousand other ways to make a profit that doesn't involve risking a company's reputation for a few bucks. I still don't get how that's so difficult to understand. We aim to please everyone but inevitably, that will not always happen. theory11 is not perfect but I'll be the first and last to say we have never intentionally misled or lied to customers. We have made mistakes unintentionally, and we have done and always will do our utmost to make it up to our customers to the best of our ability.

I will take your response into consideration as far as releasing "exact quantities" but I believe we've specified in the past as to how many quantities we print when it is in fact a limited release. We simply do not disclose an unlimited release. Either way, lack of disclosure is not the same as impropriety. I hope you understand. Again, I will let Jonathan know. Thanks!

Hey Andrei, thanks for replying. I did not mean to imply you were doing anything like impropriety with the lack of transparency. Just stating what I think the people would like to see. And yes, you did address the server issue. Once again I do not think it is anything underhanded. But after three times having various limited decks in my basket but as soon as I go to pay the screen goes to crap. I am sure the company can remedy this issue. I'll let the server issue go with that but perhaps you can pass along the issue to those that can do something if you are so inclined to do so. Thanks much for comming on here to discuss these issues, I hope you have a great Christmas. All I want is a White Centaurian. Tell the folks at T11 they would make my year if they could send me one.

[Josh]

btw andrei, just wanted to say thanks for being an inspiration when it comes to cardistry. the slow mo vid of yours from a while back is the reason i started playing around with cards

[MJF]

Hey Andrei, thanks for coming on the boards to clear up exactly what the heck is happening with the debacle that has been the launch of the Artisan decks. I didn't realize you were facing such nightmares from dealing with USPCC and their machinery. A few things though... as a representative of Theory 11, there's no need to come across in the manner you did in the following replies:

Yes, I do have the balls to come to your forum and address your sense of worldly entitlements. We do understand you paid your hard earned $6.95 for a deck of cards... and I certainly do not care for your sympathy.

I don't appreciate being played off as a small time customer who thinks they are entitled. The fact of the matter is, we spent our hard earned money (whether it was $6.95 for a single deck or $500) at Theory 11 and the other various sellers on Black Friday. We paid you money, we expect to receive a product in return. Simple business really. How you think that is equivalent to "entitled" is beyond me.

What I do care for, is understanding. An understanding without personal insult to myself and the team who worked hard to make this happen. Mistakes happen in the manufacturing process, we would certainly love to predict them but hey, we're human beings too. Crazy right? I don't believe it either.

That responsibility lays solely on Theory 11 my friend. Pretty much all of us had waited and waited and heard nothing. Nadda. Not a peep. So we finally started contacting Theory 11 support and were fed the line about "we're waiting to get the decks in", which made no sense as the sale was not advertised as a Pre-Order (which is really what it was since you didn't have the decks to begin with). FINALLY, you graced us with your presence and provided us with the reasoning behind all the delays and what was really going on. Yet, your amazed by how irritated folks are?

I hate to break it to you, but Theory 11 is completely responsible for how things are now. Theory 11 had AMPLE opportunity to communicate EXACTLY what was going on, but didn't. It inevitably grew out of control and turned ugly really quick, as things commonly do when no one speaks up when something is wrong. Theory 11 decided to sit on it and let it brew... well, this is the result.

It seems you have a lot of elaborate theories to explain for a lot of simple things. At the end of the day, we're an online magic company that makes magic tricks. Our main audience is 16 year old teenage boys. How much simpler does it get? We're not illuminati looking to make a quick profit from your $6.95. Seriously? I've read some crazy things on this forum from some of your suggestions to people thinking we split profits from backdoor ebay sellers. Holy moly. Looking forward to hearing more of your elaborate theories about our evil schemes and lies. Jezzuz.

Yes, I do have the audacity of coming on your forum and lecturing you about positivity. Get a clue.

Again, conspiracy theories mainly come from the lack of communication... also, alric has every right to be as pissed as he is. It gets really old when you get the run-around from a business.

I think someone made the interesting correlation a while back contemplating on what would happen if we switched the tables and Theory 11 all the sudden stopped receiving payments, only to later get replies from us such as "sorry, money is not yet ready from the bank - working on it"... it'd be very frustrating wouldn't it...

Sure, you may think we are trying to portray you guys as inept fools, but I think the reality is I spent $76.73 with your company, but have yet to see anything from it.

Makes me rethink who the actual fool might be...

Finally, as a representative of Theory 11, you might want to tone down the snide remarks. Remember, we are your customers and ultimately your paycheck...

[4pmdesigner]

Finally, as a representative of Theory 11, you might want to tone down the snide remarks. Remember, we are your customers and ultimately your paycheck...

I think that is a big issue right there. A lot of people tend to forget that behind these businesses are people, not robots. This image of "the customer is always right" is a Burger King mentality that begins to hurt the relationship between customer and business. That right there is this so called entitlement. Customers are always ready to complain, but the moment the business lashes out, they instantly become offended and deem them "unprofessional" People feel entitled to complain without backlash. I purchased quite a few of the Artisans myself and because I'm not only a designer, but a 3 time business owner, I understand frustration on both sides of the courts. I applaud Andrei, for having the balls to speak out and not be a "yes sir" robot. When we give a company our money for a product, that's what we're buying, a product, not their dignity. You can't always expect a person to be yelled at and just take it, no matter what hat they wear or company they run. They are people, people get pissed, and regardless of what entitlement you feel by paying them for a service, you are not buying their dignity or right to have them sit there and take it.

As for these deck. Do I want my decks? Absolutely! But I understand problems will arise. Personally the only issue I can agree with everyone on, is that the Artisans remained listed on the site without word of a delay, indicating they were readily available. In which it was probably because they thought it would be solved within a day or two rather than several to a week.

[Andrei Jikh]

Finally, as a representative of Theory 11, you might want to tone down the snide remarks. Remember, we are your customers and ultimately your paycheck...

I think that is a big issue right there. A lot of people tend to forget that behind these businesses are people, not robots. This image of "the customer is always right" is a Burger King mentality that begins to hurt the relationship between customer and business. That right there is this so called entitlement. Customers are always ready to complain, but the moment the business lashes out, they instantly become offended and deem them "unprofessional" People feel entitled to complain without backlash. I purchased quite a few of the Artisans myself and because I'm not only a designer, but a 3 time business owner, I understand frustration on both sides of the courts. I applaud Andrei, for having the balls to speak out and not be a "yes sir" robot. When we give a company our money for a product, that's what we're buying, a product, not their dignity. You can't always expect a person to be yelled at and just take it, no matter what hat they wear or company they run. They are people, people get smurfed, and regardless of what entitlement you feel by paying them for a service, you are not buying their dignity or right to have them sit there and take it.

As for these deck. Do I want my decks? Absolutely! But I understand problems will arise. Personally the only issue I can agree with everyone on, is that the Artisans remained listed on the site without word of a delay, indicating they were readily available. In which it was probably because they thought it would be solved within a day or two rather than several to a week.

Thank you so much for that support. That sums up my mentality and attitude toward the issue. I'm a human being first and a theory11 employee second. In this instance, I'm not sure a robotic diplomatic answer would be of much essence. Either way, I answered with 100% transparency and hopefully that means a bit more than the usual standard response. If none of this meant anything to me, if none of this affected how I felt, I wouldn't have cared to respond. It's nice to sometimes be rewarded with acceptance of our work. It's nice to see the small things and it's disheartening to read the opposite. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be here.

[Andrei Jikh]

Holy moly. I'm not sure how much clearer I can put this into words, I have accepted as much responsibility as anyone could have. No one is pointing fingers - although there is plenty to go around.

Holy moly, you're STILL pointing fingers. Trust me, I lose no sleep at night thinking about T11. You still don't get it. This is not the T11 forum filled with fanboys kissing your butts, we're going to express our honest, unfiltered opinions here. By the way, please don't patronize us about spending our hard earned $6.95 for a deck of cards, that is insulting. What we are are a group of people passionate about quality playing cards. All we expect is fair-dealing and transparency from a company who claims to be among the leaders of producing quality playing cards, yet instead you just accuse us of being entitled for having such basic expectations.

You say you don't care for our sympathy, but do care for understanding without insult to your effort in folding boxes. However, its difficult to offer understanding when we see a pattern of substandard customer service and distasteful marketing over the years. You wouldn't be the target of our ire if you were conducting yourselves up to the standards we expect.

I appreciate that you have responded to my "crazy rant" and made an attempt to offer your explanation. Frankly, that was more than what I expected. There's no benefit in going into a point by point rebuttal of your explanation - no one wants that. Suffice it to say, some of your explanations make sense and I can agree with those, others I don't agree with (but you don't care about that). Also, it was not my intent to insult your efforts in folding tuck boxes, but rather to shed light on the fact that that activity should not have been necessary in the first place, and that T11 did a poor job in telling us the truth about the availability of the Artisan decks.

You made one statement that I found profoundly truthful and enlightening, and it was this statement:

"At the end of the day, we're an online magic company that makes magic tricks. Our main audience is 16 year old teenage boys. How much simpler does it get?"

That tells me all I need to know about T11. Please accept my sincerest apologies for having higher expectations than that of your company. I will temper my expectations accordingly in the future.

Awesome, perfect. Agree to disagree. Would love to address specifics but not seeing any. It seems at this point, you're frustrated in general with your experience (rightfully so in some cases). I've done the best I can to shed light on the situation and inform you that we are as clear as can be. No impropriety involved. Some people write to us and we help solve the situation personally, and some vent on a forum. In this case, it was the latter and I decided to personally address it - off the record. Whatever that may be worth.

At the end of the day, we put our heart and soul into making great products that we love and believe in. We aim to please everyone but we're not perfect and make mistakes. Can't please everyone but we'll continue striving. I'll definitely use this interaction as fuel to go above and beyond, as I've always done. We'll continue to stay up countless nights trying our best. Thanks,

[Gareth]

Thank you Andrei for coming to UC and explaining (for the first time) what is actually going on.

Whilst you are correct that much of your market is 16 year old boys, it doesn't make sense to alienate whatever market you have. (Not saying we are representative, nor are the general T11 forum fan boys). Repeating the $6.95 line in your e-mail however just serves to belittle, which I find quite demeaning from a company such as yours. Sure I am only a single customer - who has probably only spent around $500 in the last few years with you.

I'll be 100000% transparent.

Well, to be honest I expect that is about 100000 times more so than T11 is generally. I'm not saying E are angels - but they do appear to be more transparent with the card community - perhaps having multiple E staff visit and post regularly helps - maybe if you stay and allow us a little information we won't be as harsh in the future.

We (mostly) do understand the hype and secrecy, but sometimes we do feel like many of the large card/magic/whatever companies are more mushroom farmers than anything else.

[MJF]

I think most of us realize there are people behind these businesses and yes crap does happen. BUT, my superiors and customers hold me accountable. I believe we have the right to hold those we do business with accountable. Really, everyone should be held accountable (wouldn't that be a perfect world?). The facts are, Theory 11 dropped the ball on this one, failed to communicate the issues until just recently (next week will be the 1 month mark for many folks' orders).

Apologies, if I came across as an elitist customer with my comment:

Finally, as a representative of Theory 11, you might want to tone down the snide remarks. Remember, we are your customers and ultimately your paycheck...

I certainly didn't intend to, but the fact of the matter is, that is exactly how it is in the business world. If you offer a sub-par product or your service is simply lackluster, there's ALWAYS going to be someone that can fulfill that customer's need and in the end, translates into lost business for you. I think it holds pretty true, business is business. If someone can't handle that, they should get out of business.

Don't get me wrong, there are customers that go overboard - I've seen them myself many times in retail establishments. But I've also seen representatives maintain their cool and handle these customers professionally and courteously. Am I saying you should kiss the customers butt and take what they dish out? Certainly not. If it's over the top, by all means walk away. However, I don't think any of my comments were over the top. They were all pretty much factual and simply stating how it is.

Frankly, alric's comments really aren't "out there" either. He's frustrated and rightly so. I myself have dealt with much worse feedback than that and maintained a cool persona. Also, if you can't take feedback like alric's, especially when you are pretty much to blame, you need to get some thicker skin - or better yet, man up and admit how poorly you handled the situation and what you're going to do in order to remedy - or even better "make up" for your mistake. I've seen businesses offer free products, coupons, codes for discounts on future purchases, etc... it all does a great job in gaining your customer's support after almost losing it. It also goes to show how much you care and want their business.

If you go back and look at all the Black Friday activities, I think it's pretty much agreeable that Theory 11 was towards the bottom of the list. There were other companies that were eager to get my money (and frankly everyone else's money), they delivered a better product, handled the transaction efficiently, shipped much quicker and left me satisfied with our business transaction... and I've already given them repeat business. Ironically they've also shipped those orders as well... couldn't resist the jab - sorry.

I'm hesitant to do the same with Theory 11 after this debacle and the condescending tone of Andrei - and that pains me since I am a collector. In reality, I'm sure I'll buy more decks from Theory 11, but that kind of thing just puts me off.

Constantly I'm reminded at work, if we don't deliver a value increasing product for our customer, we're screwed, because "they're our customers and ultimately who pays our paychecks" and they'll go elsewhere for the services/products we offer if we can't deliver.

Keep in mind, when our customers get pissed off, we FLY out representatives to address issues. That's the kind of customer commitment I'm used to, because that's what I do every day.
Of course we're also talking money many orders of magnitude more than the decks that Theory 11 sells. (Software is a good business to be in)

I know it always gets a little heated when discussions of this nature pop up, but I stand behind my views of the customer is the reason you are in business. You should do your best not to isolate them or make them feel unappreciated.

[Andrei Jikh]

Thank you Andrei for coming to UC and explaining (for the first time) what is actually going on.

Whilst you are correct that much of your market is 16 year old boys, it doesn't make sense to alienate whatever market you have. (Not saying we are representative, nor are the general T11 forum fan boys). Repeating the $6.95 line in your e-mail however just serves to belittle, which I find quite demeaning from a company such as yours. Sure I am only a single customer - who has probably only spent around $500 in the last few years with you.

I'll be 100000% transparent.

Well, to be honest I expect that is about 100000 times more so than T11 is generally. I'm not saying E are angels - but they do appear to be more transparent with the card community - perhaps having multiple E staff visit and post regularly helps - maybe if you stay and allow us a little information we won't be as harsh in the future.

We (mostly) do understand the hype and secrecy, but sometimes we do feel like many of the large card/magic/whatever companies are more mushroom farmers than anything else.

Hey Gareth, glad to have shed some light.

Let me preface - I'm not speaking as a representative of theory11, I did not come on this board as theory11's customer service because I'm not. I'm here as a dude who loves cardistry and a badass deck of cards, working for a company that puts forth insane amounts of effort to push the boundaries. I can be diplomatic or I can have essence (that may mean being a bit harsh) but I can't do both.

theory11's market is the same as anyone else's in this industry. I apologize if I came across as "alienating" it but I don't feel that I've come across that way. I'm not here to sell you on a product.

I do agree with you in saying that I sounded harsh and I don't mean to belittle anyone's hard work. Whatever the price may be, it's theory11's responsibility to take care of customers and we certainly do our utmost. It's difficult to juggle maintaining a "diplomatic" answer whilst having essence in response to some of the outlandish remarks all the while keeping things in perspective. I certainly hope you understand.

In retrospect, I probably should have kept my mouth and shut and stop coming to this forum all together. However, for those of which transparency and intent mean anything, I hope I cleared that up.

[MJF]

Awesome, perfect. Agree to disagree. Would love to address specifics but not seeing any. It seems at this point, you're frustrated in general with your experience (rightfully so in some cases). I've done the best I can to shed light on the situation and inform you that we are as clear as can be. No impropriety involved. Some people write to us and we help solve the situation personally, and some vent on a forum. In this case, it was the latter and I decided to personally address it - off the record. Whatever that may be worth.

Keep in mind, some of us did contact Theory 11 directly and were basically fed a prepped standardized message of

Hi MJF,

Your order has not shipped yet. We were waiting on a new shipment of Artisans to fill the incredible volume of orders we've had recently. We'll be restocking Artisans very soon and we'll ship your order as soon as we can. Thanks so much for your patience and understanding in this matter!

Not exactly much to go by, is it? - and not exactly entirely the truth...

If Theory 11 had been truthful and upfront as a company with it's customers (you've got a website to make announcements, you've got capabilities to send out emails to customers) I don't think you would've seen "the later"... just saying.




edit*

Also keep in mind, most of the frustrations are directly at Theory 11 as a company.
You just happen to be representing them tonight on this board.

I still appreciate that.

[Andrei Jikh]

Awesome, perfect. Agree to disagree. Would love to address specifics but not seeing any. It seems at this point, you're frustrated in general with your experience (rightfully so in some cases). I've done the best I can to shed light on the situation and inform you that we are as clear as can be. No impropriety involved. Some people write to us and we help solve the situation personally, and some vent on a forum. In this case, it was the latter and I decided to personally address it - off the record. Whatever that may be worth.

Keep in mind, some of us did contact Theory 11 directly and were basically fed a prepped standardized message of

Hi MJF,

Your order has not shipped yet. We were waiting on a new shipment of Artisans to fill the incredible volume of orders we've had recently. We'll be restocking Artisans very soon and we'll ship your order as soon as we can. Thanks so much for your patience and understanding in this matter!

Not exactly much to go by, is it? - and not exactly entirely the truth...

If Theory 11 had been truthful and upfront as a company with it's customers (you've got a website to make announcements, you've got capabilities to send out emails to customers) I don't think you would've seen "the later"... just saying.




edit*

Also keep in mind, most of the frustrations are directly at Theory 11 as a company.
You just happen to be representing them tonight on this board.

I still appreciate that.

Yep, for sure. Second guessing myself about coming on this forum at all though to be honest. If you keep with up us on twitter, facebook, or youtube, we have been transparent and have let people know our decks and orders were delayed. The standard message is 100% on point and accurate. Could we have announced it earlier? Probably, but it wasn't my decision to make. We tried to solve it in time, but we couldn't. We did the next logical thing - informed people about the delay on facebook, twitter, and youtube. Either way, doesn't make much sense to hide an issue everyone is experiencing - not following your logic.

[MJF]

Hey Gareth, glad to have shed some light.

Let me preface - I'm not speaking as a representative of theory11, I did not come on this board as theory11's customer service because I'm not. Rather, trying to share my experience and transparency as far as our intentions are concerned. It's difficult but bear with me. I can be diplomatic or I can have essence (that may mean being a bit harsh) but I can't do both.

theory11's market is the same as anyone else's in this industry. I apologize if I came across as "alienating" it but I don't feel that I've come across that way. I'm not here to sell you on a product. I do agree with you in saying that I sounded harsh and I don't mean to belittle anyone's hard work. Whatever the price may be, it's theory11's responsibility to take care of customers and we certainly do our utmost. It's difficult to juggle maintaining a "diplomatic" answer whilst having essence in response to some of the outlandish remarks all the while keeping things in perspective. I certainly hope you understand.

In retrospect, I probably should have kept my mouth and shut and stop coming to this forum all together. However, for those of which transparency and intent mean anything, I hope I cleared that up.

I think you've got some great feedback though to go back to the management of Theory11 for how to conduct themselves in future transactions and events so perhaps they could transpire in a smoother and more enjoyable fashion for both the customers and Theory 11 as a company.

Again, thanks Andrei for clearing much of the stuff up and being the whipping boy for Theory 11's customers for a few hours.

and I think I speak for most saying you're more than welcome on the site and we appreciate it when industry insiders fill us in on the happenings of the times...

[Andrei Jikh]

Hey Gareth, glad to have shed some light.

Let me preface - I'm not speaking as a representative of theory11, I did not come on this board as theory11's customer service because I'm not. Rather, trying to share my experience and transparency as far as our intentions are concerned. It's difficult but bear with me. I can be diplomatic or I can have essence (that may mean being a bit harsh) but I can't do both.

theory11's market is the same as anyone else's in this industry. I apologize if I came across as "alienating" it but I don't feel that I've come across that way. I'm not here to sell you on a product. I do agree with you in saying that I sounded harsh and I don't mean to belittle anyone's hard work. Whatever the price may be, it's theory11's responsibility to take care of customers and we certainly do our utmost. It's difficult to juggle maintaining a "diplomatic" answer whilst having essence in response to some of the outlandish remarks all the while keeping things in perspective. I certainly hope you understand.

In retrospect, I probably should have kept my mouth and shut and stop coming to this forum all together. However, for those of which transparency and intent mean anything, I hope I cleared that up.

I think you've got some great feedback though to go back to the management of Theory11 for how to conduct themselves in the future so transactions and events perhaps could transpire in a smoother and more enjoyable fashion for both the customers and Theory 11 as a company.

Again, thanks Andrei for clearing much of the stuff up and being the whipping boy for Theory 11's customers for a few hours.

Anytime! We learn as we go. Again, my main reason for posting here is to explain we have not, do not, and will never have any intention of impropriety or shady business. We don't operate like that and I wouldn't be with theory11 for as long as I have been if I even so much as suspected it. Simply not worth it when there are a thousand other ways to positively satisfy ourselves, our customers, and live our lives.

[alric]

alric, for the most part i have agreed with you about t11... but don't you think that you might be taking this a little over board for playing cards?

Also, he didn't mean the CARDS were thicker; he meant that the tuck box was a little to thick, which then caused the tuck to rip when the cards were shoved into the tuck.

If T11 was in fact referring to thicker tuck boxes rather than thicker cards, then thanks for the clarification. If they were referring to thicker cards as I originally thought, then I'll find out soon enough when I finally get my cards whether that is BS or not.

Maybe I went a little overboard with my criticism, but I love playing cards and all things related to playing cards, and I firmly believe most of us here at UC share that passion. One thing I want to make clear is that I was not attacking Andrei personally, but T11 as a company. As strongly as I am attacking T11, Andrei's going to be equally as strong defending T11, as he should. I respect his defense of his company, and I hope he would respect my critique of his company, and I continue to stand by everything I said.

*edit* By the way, MJF, I got that exact same email....*edit*

T11 doesn't come on our site to give us their point of view, so when I saw Andrei make his comments in this thread, I couldn't resist giving him a piece of my mind in this rare opportunity. I think the general consensus among most of us here (16 year old fanboys excepted) is that we have grown frustrated and weary of many of their practices, and this was a good time to unload. I've said my piece and am making my peace.

[Andrei Jikh]

alric, for the most part i have agreed with you about t11... but don't you think that you might be taking this a little over board for playing cards?

Also, he didn't mean the CARDS were thicker; he meant that the tuck box was a little to thick, which then caused the tuck to rip when the cards were shoved into the tuck.

If T11 was in fact referring to thicker tuck boxes rather than thicker cards, then thanks for the clarification. If they were referring to thicker cards as I originally thought, then I'll find out soon enough when I finally get my cards whether that is BS or not.

Maybe I went a little overboard with my criticism, but I love playing cards and all things related to playing cards, and I firmly believe most of us here at UC share that passion. One thing I want to make clear is that I was not attacking Andrei personally, but T11 as a company. As strongly as I am attacking T11, Andrei's going to be equally as strong defending T11, as he should. I respect his defense of his company, and I hope he would respect my critique of his company, and I continue to stand by everything I said.

T11 doesn't come on our site to give us their point of view, so when I saw Andrei make his comments in this thread, I couldn't resist giving him a piece of my mind in this rare opportunity. I think the general consensus among most of us here (16 year old fanboys excepted) is that we have grown frustrated and weary of many of their practices, and this was a good time to unload. I've said my piece and am making my peace.

Perfect, glad to know we're passionate enough to spend our time discussing this on an internet forum at (what is for me anyway) almost 2 in the morning. At least it shows we care. Truly mean that.

I've said it before but I'll say it again. t11 didn't come on your forum. I'm not theory11. I'm not here to give you customer service and nod my head in acceptance of some remarks with regards to impropriety. Moreover, I'm not here to admit and apologize for mal-intent not committed. I'm coming here as a dude who loves to do cardistry, a badass handling/looking deck of cards, and who works with a company that consistently pushes the boundaries and believes wholeheartedly in it's intent and passion - giving you the facts. It's that simple.

I love that I can be as honest and frank as I have been, I wouldn't be able to get away with this elsewhere. However, what I love more is the fact that I care enough to see myself do so in the first place - off the record. I've said all I can with regards to this issue and hopefully in some cases others as well. I won't be coming here often if at all to discuss, but I'll certainly be watching. If anyone wants to continue or has any questions with regards to this issue or another, past or present, feel free to email me : andrei@theory11.com

[MagikFingerz]

Andrei, I think a part of the reason why you were perceived as an official representative is because you kept saying "we" in your post, as in "we, the company". It's just a matter of semantics and perception, so there's nobody blame for it. Also, we're used to having a few official representatives here on this forum, so it was all too easy to see you in the same way.

Anyway, it seems to have been cleared up and I sincerely hope you'll keep stopping by from time to time and offer your insights here and there, whether it be as yourself or our "inside-man" in T11 (the latter would be nice since we don't have any others, though it would not be expected).

[DelMagic]

We tried to solve it in time, but we couldn't. We did the next logical thing - informed people about the delay on facebook, twitter, and youtube.

I don't follow anything on facebook or twitter, though I do watch the occasional video on youtube. (Love the Wizard Product Review.) But, when there is an issue with some order I've placed with a company, I wouldn't expect to have to go to one of the major social sites to get info - I would hope it would just show up ASAP in my email.

Welcome Andrei. It's great to have you here.

[MJF]

It's kind of funny, I check this site many magnitudes more than I do Facebook... Twitter I don't even bother...

UC is like cocaine for deck collectors...

[MagikFingerz]

It's kind of funny, I check this site many magnitudes more than I do Facebook... Twitter I don't even bother...

UC is like cocaine for deck collectors...

So true...

[wsop_legacy]

We tried to solve it in time, but we couldn't. We did the next logical thing - informed people about the delay on facebook, twitter, and youtube.

I don't follow anything on facebook or twitter, though I do watch the occasional video on youtube. (Love the Wizard Product Review.) But, when there is an issue with some order I've placed with a company, I wouldn't expect to have to go to one of the major social sites to get info - I would hope it would just show up ASAP in my email.

Welcome Andrei. It's great to have you here.

My problem is that Theory 11 and many other company's in this industry depended on social networks to provide updates to "buyers" because they assume "all who buy a product" (Artisans) use Facbook, Twitter and Youtube. While its nice that Andrei came on this forum to explain what happened and he is a "team member" of Theory 11, this is not an official statement from Theory 11. An official email from Theory 11 should have been sent to "all that purchased the product" about the delay. That picture that was posted on Twitter of the boxes being folded by hand with a Band-aid on was unprofessional and should never have been posted to the public. It only caused confusion about the quality of the product. Theory 11 should of kept that part to themselves and just do what needed to be done. All we (the customers) needed to know was that there were delays in the manufacturing of the deck because of the "complex quality of the boxes" and that "further steps had to be taken" to ensure a finished product could be delivered within Theory 11 standards. Simple, Truthful, The End.

[cosmicsecret]

What bothers me is that Theory11 had posted a picture of a delievery status on their facebook page.

November 22nd 2012 Facebook Status Message of T11
"Just sent a package across the country with SAME DAY delivery to prepare for Black Friday. What's inside the box?"

533692_10151101945007143_1452900359_n.jpg (54.36 KiB) Viewed 3036 times

So this was very misleading to those who actually followed them on Facebook.
I thought that Theory11 had a big batch of cards incomming to their warehouse to be prepared for Black Friday.
At least it looked like that,but the reality might just be a couple of decks so that they could make photos for the product page.
Who knows...but that hype around that and then not delivering....a big mess...hopefully T11 will learn from that mess and makes future release more stable.

[badpete69]

Just got an email this morning confirming my Artisan box was on its way yeahhhh

[wsop_legacy]

Just got an email this morning confirming my Artisan box was on its way yeahhhh

I received a shipping confirmation email this morning also. The only problem is I've had the cards for two days now.

On a positive note, I'm very happy with this product. They turned out awesome. The double cellophane (cards and box) was a nice touch. This is something I have only seen in recent years on gilded edge decks. The paper used for the boxes is the highest quality and texture I've experienced on any playing card tuck box. I do recommend buying these if you have not already.

[MJF]

I just got a shipping notice that my order is finally in the mail this morning!!! Yeah!

I think they sent them all out in a big batch at the end of the week...

[UtterFool]

Received my Artisan box today.
It really isn't much more than a quality cigar box (I feared this from the image but hoped otherwise)
The worst part, in my opinion, is that the little placard on the front is actually a sticker that seals the box shut. So the box is sealed and now I face the collectors dilemma, do I break this seal so that I have my 4 decks ( 2 for collecting 2 for opening) and therefore reduce the collectibility of my box, or do I leave it sealed and never get to see the decks. Or at this point due to my frustration with T11, do I carefully remove the seal, take out the decks, take a crap in the box, re-seal it and then send it back to them?
So many decisions to make

[michaelveatch]

Just got mine today......there pretty sweet and were worth the wait.....and am I the only person who thinks that these beaing put together by hand by the dudes at theory11 is cool???? oh and off topic I ordered something with my elite points the day after I ordered the artisans and I never received it nor did I get any kind of shipping confirmation.........WTH theory11..........the cards are awesome though.....ooooooo and the collectors box, good thing I bought extra decks cause id be opening it right now

[DelMagic]

The seal on the collector's box comes off easily. It is a very nice box and I'm happy that I purchased it.

[wsop_legacy]

Received my Artisan box today.
It really isn't much more than a quality cigar box (I feared this from the image but hoped otherwise)
The worst part, in my opinion, is that the little placard on the front is actually a sticker that seals the box shut. So the box is sealed and now I face the collectors dilemma, do I break this seal so that I have my 4 decks ( 2 for collecting 2 for opening) and therefore reduce the collectibility of my box, or do I leave it sealed and never get to see the decks. Or at this point due to my frustration with T11, do I carefully remove the seal, take out the decks, take a crap in the box, re-seal it and then send it back to them?
So many decisions to make

I would leave the seal on so you can make your money back. Then pick up some individual decks.

The collectors boxes are not worth buying when:
1. The decks can be bought individually OR
2. The box set costs more then the value of the decks inside.