"Venexiana Dark" by Lotrek: Funding(funded) on KS!

Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:59 pm

What a mess! Is it the seals that are marked with the edition name? As I recall, there is no edition name on the tucks, right? I would just leave them the way they are.

Eoghann · Unread post by **Eoghann** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:05 pm

Mike Ratledge wrote:What a mess! Is it the seals that are marked with the edition name? As I recall, there is no edition name on the tucks, right? I would just leave them the way they are.

Afraid so. On the side of each tuck it specifies Masked/Revealed Edition. Even if it weren't specified, you can kind of tell because the gold tuck has silver backed cards and vice versa.
I'm not concerned or upset at all. Just something worth mentioning I think.

On a side note, I like how Lotrek explains the Queen of Spades. She must serve the Many-Faced God. [MURRAY]

Unread post by **Lotrek** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:28 am

No need to say how ANGRY I am! I only got two sample decks from EPCC which were correctly placed in the tuck cases so I'm speechless by what I see here! I have no idea in how many decks this was done. Maybe to all, maybe to some. There is no point to check, as this would destroy the seal and cello wrap. I just contacted Expert Playing Card addressing the issue.

And this is not the only thing. They also didn't print the uncuts I ordered and paid for! I haven't mentioned it yet because I don't know what I'll do as they're trying to find a solution. But this is way too much!

Unread post by **rousselle** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:32 am

Hi, Lotrek.

So, first I'll preface by saying that I am in no way upset with you. I am, in fact, not upset at all.

If it will help your negotiations with EPCC, however, I'll mention that I ordered one uncut of each deck with the full intention of having both custom framed and then displayed on walls in my house (their new homes are already picked out). I love the fact that these decks tell a story, which is why I wanted to hang them up for my guests to enjoy. (I currently only have one other uncut hanging up on display on my walls: the Uusi Royal Optik deck, which has generated many conversations.)

If you are forced to come up with some other compromise to send to your backers who pledged for the uncuts, I completely understand. But, if it's at all possible to persuade them to make good on their mistake and print those uncuts, I know that I'd be among many who would most sincerely appreciate it.

I'm bummed that EPCC is letting you down. They have shown so much promise with their constantly improving playing card production, but what good is that if their project management continues to let down their customers?

volantangel · Unread post by **volantangel** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:01 am

Expert sure dropped the ball on this one. It's not a big deal to me, but it certainly is a mistake not sure what expert can do to rectify this.

Unread post by **Cbkimble** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:15 am

I would've liked the uncuts but with getting both signature decks it was just too much to add the uncuts at the time. Guess it worked out that I didn't.

Hopefully, EPCC will make this right.

by the way, anyone that pledged for the coin receive it? How did it turn out.

Unread post by **Lotrek** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:06 am

Regarding the uncuts, there may be solutions like me making them as with ICONS, showing both faces and back design. Or -worst case- refunding the backers who pledged for uncuts. The real problem is the messed up tucks! If someone got 2 or 4 decks planning to open them all, it's fine. But what about the 1-deck backers or about those who got a brick to resell? And I have no idea nor can I find out how many decks have this problem.

I'm waiting for EPCC's reply.

volantangel · Unread post by **volantangel** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:34 am

Lotrek wrote: The real problem is the messed up tucks! If someone got 2 or 4 decks planning to open them all, it's fine. But what about the 1-deck backers or about those who got a brick to resell? And I have no idea nor can I find out how many decks have this problem.

I'm waiting for EPCC's reply.

Indeed, the thing is im not even sure what can be done. I guess we will see.

Bikefanatic · Unread post by **Bikefanatic** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:32 am

Should we worry about the Signature decks? I don't remember how they're different, will they be masked, unmasked, etc.

Unread post by **Lotrek** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:35 am

Bikefanatic wrote:Should we worry about the Signature decks? I don't remember how they're different, will they be masked, unmasked, etc.

No worries about these. They'll be anyway opened to be placed in their tuck cases. But there is an implication as I'm expecting the decks to Greece in order to prepare and send them from here and I don't know what decks will come! This is the least. It can be easily solved.

Eoghann · Unread post by **Eoghann** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:26 pm

Cbkimble wrote: by the way, anyone that pledged for the coin receive it? How did it turn out.

Sorry, was away when I posted about them so I couldn't include a picture then. They turned out fantastic.

Unread post by **rousselle** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:25 pm

So, it turns out I received my decks yesterday and didn't find out until this evening.

Here's what I posted in the comments section on Kickstarter:

Lotrek: first, the cards themselves are *beautiful*. These decks hit the proverbial ball out of the park. They are luscious. Elegant. Exquisite.

And, yes, the two decks that I opened in my mixed half-brick were also in the wrong tucks.

By the way, the tucks are gorgeous, as well.

I hope EPCC is able to make this up to you. As someone who intends to launch his own campaign one day, I'm paying close attention to how well EPCC makes this right.

That said... really, you did fantastic work on this. I'm looking forward to my signature edition decks and the uncuts, when they arrive!

I cannot state enough how much I love these decks. They truly are magnificent. And the quality of the printing (the tight registration, the smooth edges, the metallic inks) truly heighten your excellent design work.

However, boxing these decks incorrectly has to make for a huge headache for you and your fulfillment center. I have spent the better part of a decade running a print shop; the magnitude of this error makes me thing that really, the only thing they could do to make up for this is to reprint the entire job (probably allowing you to make a minor identifying mark so that you and the fulfillment center can tell which decks are "correct" and which ones are not), and make sure they get the uncuts that were missed the first time, as well. This kind of error spoils the entire job. They need to redo the whole thing.

That's just my opinion, of course, and if they can come up with some other way to make it right, I'm curious to see what it will be. But, as much as I love their cards, if EPCC can't do right by their customers, I know I won't be using them when I go to create a project of my own (nor could I advise others to use them).

Cheers to you for the excellent work, Lotrek. And here's to hoping that EPCC comes through and makes this right.

Bikefanatic · Unread post by **Bikefanatic** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:11 am

If more people know about this now, it'll be best if they not open their decks at the moment. So if they want the unmasked deck (which is labeled as a masked deck), they can trade it off. May seem like a lot of hassle but just another solution. Hopefully I'll get both of mine tomorrow Monday.

sinjin7 · Unread post by **sinjin7** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:02 am

rousselle wrote:the magnitude of this error makes me thing that really, the only thing they could do to make up for this is to reprint the entire job (probably allowing you to make a minor identifying mark so that you and the fulfillment center can tell which decks are "correct" and which ones are not), and make sure they get the uncuts that were missed the first time, as well. This kind of error spoils the entire job. They need to redo the whole thing.

Well, it sure sounds like all the decks got switched around since I'm not seeing anyone reporting they got the right cards in the proper tucks. I'm just astounded by the level of negligence here. This is kind of like a doctor reading an x-ray film flipped around and proceeds to amputate the wrong foot. This error rises to the level of the infamous Moriarty v.1 deck. However, in this case, nothing was actually misprinted. I'm not sure what can be done about this on the part of EPCC. I'm guessing the uncuts can be a simple fix, just print off the required number of sheets and ship them by air, not sea, to whoever Lotrek uses for fulfillment. As for the decks themselves, do you really make them redo the whole thing? Something tells me EPCC wouldn't want to eat that big of a cost. Even if they offer Lotrek a partial refund or a future credit, it really can't make up for this.

The only silver lining to this cloud is that out of the 678 backers in this project, the vast majority of them probably bought these decks in pairs, so when they open up their decks, they can just swap the tucks.

Unread post by **Lotrek** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:51 am

rousselle wrote:So, it turns out I received my decks yesterday and didn't find out until this evening.

Here's what I posted in the comments section on Kickstarter:

Lotrek: first, the cards themselves are *beautiful*. These decks hit the proverbial ball out of the park. They are luscious. Elegant. Exquisite.

And, yes, the two decks that I opened in my mixed half-brick were also in the wrong tucks.

By the way, the tucks are gorgeous, as well.

I hope EPCC is able to make this up to you. As someone who intends to launch his own campaign one day, I'm paying close attention to how well EPCC makes this right.

That said... really, you did fantastic work on this. I'm looking forward to my signature edition decks and the uncuts, when they arrive!
I cannot state enough how much I love these decks. They truly are magnificent. And the quality of the printing (the tight registration, the smooth edges, the metallic inks) truly heighten your excellent design work.

However, boxing these decks incorrectly has to make for a huge headache for you and your fulfillment center. I have spent the better part of a decade running a print shop; the magnitude of this error makes me thing that really, the only thing they could do to make up for this is to reprint the entire job (probably allowing you to make a minor identifying mark so that you and the fulfillment center can tell which decks are "correct" and which ones are not), and make sure they get the uncuts that were missed the first time, as well. This kind of error spoils the entire job. They need to redo the whole thing.

That's just my opinion, of course, and if they can come up with some other way to make it right, I'm curious to see what it will be. But, as much as I love their cards, if EPCC can't do right by their customers, I know I won't be using them when I go to create a project of my own (nor could I advise others to use them).

Cheers to you for the excellent work, Lotrek. And here's to hoping that EPCC comes through and makes this right.

Thank you so much, Rousselle! I too believe that reprinting the whole job is the only thing they can do. It's a huge mistake. We all do mistakes, at least I often do. The point is what we do to correct it. I hope that EPCC will do the right thing.

Unread post by **Lotrek** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:15 am

sinjin7 wrote:
rousselle wrote:the magnitude of this error makes me thing that really, the only thing they could do to make up for this is to reprint the entire job (probably allowing you to make a minor identifying mark so that you and the fulfillment center can tell which decks are "correct" and which ones are not), and make sure they get the uncuts that were missed the first time, as well. This kind of error spoils the entire job. They need to redo the whole thing.
Well, it sure sounds like all the decks got switched around since I'm not seeing anyone reporting they got the right cards in the proper tucks. I'm just astounded by the level of negligence here. This is kind of like a doctor reading an x-ray film flipped around and proceeds to amputate the wrong foot. This error rises to the level of the infamous Moriarty v.1 deck. However, in this case, nothing was actually misprinted. I'm not sure what can be done about this on the part of EPCC. I'm guessing the uncuts can be a simple fix, just print off the required number of sheets and ship them by air, not sea, to whoever Lotrek uses for fulfillment. As for the decks themselves, do you really make them redo the whole thing? Something tells me EPCC wouldn't want to eat that big of a cost. Even if they offer Lotrek a partial refund or a future credit, it really can't make up for this.

The only silver lining to this cloud is that out of the 678 backers in this project, the vast majority of them probably bought these decks in pairs, so when they open up their decks, they can just swap the tucks.

In my opinion, it has nothing to do with their willingness to eat up the cost. Nobody wants. They just have to. It's their mistake and if they don't fix it the message to all creators will be: "Look guys, we do great decks but if we screw up sometime, it's your problem".
Not very wise IMO.

Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:37 am

Lotrek, it would be different if you screwed up, but the only thing that they can do is replace them, and even that costs you money, due to the fulfillment.

Unread post by **Cbkimble** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:08 am

Could they not just open the tucks, swap the decks and reveal them? I understand that shipping would still be a hassle but wouldn't that be viable?

See my collection @ Portfolio52 · Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:55 am

Bit tricky if already sealed with sticker and celo. Celo not such big deal - tear it off and bin it - but removing seal stickers completely without damaging the tucks would be a very long process indeed...

Unread post by **Marcus** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:58 am

Lotrek wrote:In my opinion, it has nothing to do with their willingness to eat up the cost. Nobody wants. They just have to. It's their mistake and if they don't fix it the message to all creators will be: "Look guys, we do great decks but if we screw up sometime, it's your problem".
Not very wise IMO.

Sorry to hear about the issue with the swapped tucks, Lotrek. Luckily it's two decks that, as sinjin7 mentioned before me, most people will probably be picking up in pairs.

(Just a a friendly piece of advice - it's usually best to first discuss the issue thoroughly with the partner in question before commenting further on it on a public platform so as not to strain any relationships further than necessary.)

Unread post by **Lotrek** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:01 am

@Marcus:

Of course I already did and I'm waiting for a reply. But this issue came to my knowledge through this forum and I could not remain silent. The problem itself is not a big deal for me provided that it will be fixed. As I already said, I'm the last to blame anyone for a mistake. I'm sure that EPCC will take care of it and everyone will be happy.

Unread post by **badpete69** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:14 am

I only have a pair of decks coming and since I will not open them I will never know the difference hehehe

bamabenz · Unread post by **bamabenz** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:02 pm

I haven't received any decks yet, and I'm sort of bummed that you've put a hold on shipping.
I understand it, but its still depressing.

/bama

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:30 pm

The situation totally sucks for all parties involved for sure, and I am only talking from someone who knows all to well about deck screw ups.

The only harry part of this deal is that, the decks were accepted and then shipped to costumers. When the shipment was received and before they were shipped out the fulfillment company should have opened up a few to double check before signing the bill of lading. Opening a few decks and checking for any major screw ups is just as important as checking for shipping damage. That fact may make it much harder to get EPCC to reprint because to them the decks were accepted and signed off on. Not trying to stir anything up for sure I just know and have learned from experience that if there is a screw up that you want the printer to fix you can't sign off and ship to costumers.

Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:34 pm

Lotrek,

My four beautiful decks, and their equally beautiful booklet arrived safely today, here in Fullerton, California.

As expected from your Updates, when I opened one of each deck (Masked and Revealed), the cards were in the wrong tuck cases; which I corrected easily, after my wife and I had the fun of looking through each deck first.

My other two back-up/collectible decks will stay sealed; and I'll know they are happily residing in each other's tuck case.

I'm more amused than concerned about this situation; so please don't let it trouble you.

I'm very happy with what I have received from you; and I look forward to all of your future projects too.

And since I didn't order any Uncut sheets, I'm not out anything there either; but I do hope the Printer will get those to you a.s.a.p. for those who did order them.

Your ongoing Happy Customer,

Will Hart

Lotrek wrote:@Marcus:

Of course I already did and I'm waiting for a reply. But this issue came to my knowledge through this forum and I could not remain silent. The problem itself is not a big deal for me provided that it will be fixed. As I already said, I'm the last to blame anyone for a mistake. I'm sure that EPCC will take care of it and everyone will be happy.

chach · Unread post by **chach** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:09 pm

Man, it's like this deck was cursed or something.

Murphy definitely saw this and applied his laws all over the damn place with a big ol' baseball bat.

I've loved it from the get go, from the initial thoughts during the original Venexiana campaign, to it being launched with Card Launcher, to Lotrek adapting my thoughts and ideas for the joker, to the sneak peaks of all the cards during the campaign(s) leading up to the KoS being Death himself, and the crazy idea to include individually drawn Jokers with all the signature decks.

Despite all the hiccups along the way, it's still a fantastic deck, Lotrek, and I know I can't wait to get mine in hand, even if they are in the wrong tuck boxes. I love 'em sight unseen. I will admit that I am a bit disappointed in the current lack of uncut sheets, but know that you'll make good on it somehow, even if EPCC doesn't. You're a standup guy, sir, and if I ever meet you, drinks, hookers and blow are all on me for sure. Well, maybe just the drinks.

Unread post by **Lotrek** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:18 pm

bamabenz wrote:I haven't received any decks yet, and I'm sort of bummed that you've put a hold on shipping.
I understand it, but its still depressing.

/bama

it's depressing for me, too. But how can I ship decks that I know they're wrongly placed? I'm working with EPCC on the issue and I'm sure we'll find a solution.

And thank you all for your kind words and the sense of humor in the reception of the decks

Bruno · Unread post by **Bruno** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:30 pm

O Lotrek, how did you deserve this, mate ?
Did you hide yer Granma's falsies when you was younger, or summat ?
Know you'll surmount this trial too, but Crikey, you don't need this crap.
Commiz's.

Unread post by **Lotrek** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:43 pm

Bruno wrote:O Lotrek, how did you deserve this, mate ?
Did you hide yer Granma's falsies when you was younger, or summat ?
Know you'll surmount this trial too, but Crikey, you don't need this crap.
Commiz's.

Hahah, you made me laugh, Bruno! Someday I gotta learn yer jargon, m8!

Bruno · Unread post by **Bruno** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:58 pm

Yair, me too.

"Venexiana Dark" by Lotrek: Funding(funded) on KS!

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