Cardists as collectors - Question and Comments

[badpete69]

So first let me start with a quote from the the Tenebre thread today from Sinjin (great post by the way)

Please, just stop with these comparisons to Jerry's Nuggets. Stop. Who does LPCC think they're fooling? When Sullivan first started sourcing factories in China and Taiwan to make his cards, he touted them as being vastly superior to what the USPCC was putting out. Anyone who had the misfortune of buying Global Titan decks knows this couldn't be further from the truth. Now his decks closely resemble JNs? His decks last 5 times longer?!? How does he quantify that? The Diamond Finish hasn't even been out long enough to be quantified as lasting 5 times longer than any "standard" brands. And I have some news for you, Larry: Jerry's Nuggets decks degrade over time as they're handled, just like every other deck ever made. JNs finish does NOT improve as the cards are handled, and neither does yours.

It got me thinking on all of the different reasons we all collect deck of cards and in particular how does a cardist go about collecting deck of cards. As far as I can remember I have been collecting something. From stamps and sport cards when i was very young, to comic books for 20 years, back to sport cards and finally to my latest addiction card decks. I have always been a big poker player ( going to the world series of poker is on my bucket list but I have yet to convince my wife that the $10K investment would be a wise one) and so one day when I came across the Karnival Midnight Foil deck that had just been released, I had to buy it. 1700 decks later I do not see any end in sight. I collect basically on the looks of the decks. I like nice tucks of course , nice custom courts and great backs. I could not care less about stock although I do not buy plastic cards. As most of you already know I do not open my collectible decks. If I really like a deck , I usually buy an extra that I can open and play at my poker tournaments. If I really want to display amazing art, then I get the uncut sheet

Anyway back to the reason I am writing this post. I am curious to hear from you cardists on exactly what you look for in collecting cards.

1- Do you pass on very nice decks because they are not on your preferred stock?
2- Do you open every single deck you buy?
3- If so does it ever get old to fan and flourish and w/e else you do with a deck... meaning after an hour of playing with it are you basically done with the deck never to use it again?
4- Why are you a cardist? Is it because you want to be a magician and perform for people? If not do you get pleasure just manipulating the decks ( in front of a mirror perhaps)
5- Why not use ordinary Bicycle deck to practice cardistry as it would be much cheaper
6- Any collector usually likes the valuation of their collectibles to some degree or another. Does it bother you that opening a deck and using it greatly diminishes its resale value

Thought it would be fun to see what really drives you

[nECr0MaNCeD]

Excellent thread.

I collect for pretty much the same reasons you do. My answers below should finish explaining.....


1- Do you pass on very nice decks because they are not on your preferred stock?
No. Most of my practice and cardistry is now done with standard Bikes. (Wish I could find more Ohio Riderbacks!) The exceptions are the decks I opened when I first started cardistry and collecting. I realized I was burning through some VERY expensive cards for practice and finally wised up and switched to standard decks.

2- Do you open every single deck you buy?
Yes, but only if I have more than one. At least one deck for my collection reamins sealed. Tenebre Rosso is a good example. They were pricy and I was strapped for cash when that campaign ended so only got one. I love great tucks but also courts and pips as well and try my best to have a deck to open. Like you if I really like the art I'll gran an uncut.

3- If so does it ever get old to fan and flourish and w/e else you do with a deck... meaning after an hour of playing with it are you basically done with the deck never to use it again?
Yes but I am working on repairing those first decks I wore out. (I have no idea why I thought it a good idea to spring a deck of Fed 52s that cost $30 a few hundred times.)

4- Why are you a cardist? Is it because you want to be a magician and perform for people? If not do you get pleasure just manipulating the decks ( in front of a mirror perhaps)
While I consider myself a cardist, I am very green and have a LOT of practice before I am ready to perform. That's OK. I am not in any rush because while it would be nice to perform, my real motivation is the love of just doing it. I do learn and practice card magic as well and love that as well but more often than not it's manipulation I practice. I figure that once I am adept with manipulation the magic will be that much easier. (I'd love to know what others think of this "strategy")

5- Why not use ordinary Bicycle deck to practice cardistry as it would be much cheaper
See answer to question #1

6- Any collector usually likes the valuation of their collectibles to some degree or another. Does it bother you that opening a deck and using it greatly diminishes its resale value
While my answer to question #1 addresses this I want to add that even though I only open decks to see the art I love , diminishing value never bothers me as I collect for beauty and the love of the art, not profit.


I would like to add that an unforeseen and pleasant benefit of this hobby has been the community. The great people I have met here make an already awesome hobby priceless.

[schfifty5]

1- Do you pass on very nice decks because they are not on your preferred stock?
Stock doesn't bother me too much, if it's EPCC/Lux then that's just a bonus and I'll probably get an extra deck to play with in the future.

2- Do you open every single deck you buy?
I do unless If it's a limited run deck I'll try and get atleast 2 and keep 1 sealed. Otherwise all my ellusionist, theory11 etc.. are opened straight away (have to see what they look like!!)

3- If so does it ever get old to fan and flourish and w/e else you do with a deck... meaning after an hour of playing with it are you basically done with the deck never to use it again?
Nope, I practice with Bicycle's so that when I'm good at something or want to show someone something I can take fancier decks out which are still in brand new condition

4- Why are you a cardist? Is it because you want to be a magician and perform for people? If not do you get pleasure just manipulating the decks ( in front of a mirror perhaps)
I've always enjoyed card magic and was amazed at the amount of ambidexterity I saw in cardistry. I really wanted to learn the "secrets" and how to do these things, after learning a few things I have even more of an appreciation for those that are good at this. For me it's mostly self-satisfaction to learn how to do these things well and I enjoy performing for family and friends.

5- Why not use ordinary Bicycle deck to practice cardistry as it would be much cheaper
I buy Bicycles just to practice with, once the deck is thoroughly broken in and not too damaged I'll open another.

6- Any collector usually likes the valuation of their collectibles to some degree or another. Does it bother you that opening a deck and using it greatly diminishes its resale value
A little, but I buy the decks for their artwork so it's hard not to open and look/play with them.

[MagikFingerz]

1- Do you pass on very nice decks because they are not on your preferred stock?
It's a tradeoff. I use cardistry to enjoy the art, so if a deck can't be fanned that's a big issue. The stock/finish is just another factor, if I'm on the fence about the art then the stock/finish may be the deciding factor. There have certainly been cases where the art trumped everything else, though.
2- Do you open every single deck you buy?
Pretty much. I only collect for myself, I don't expect much of my collection to be worth something sometime down the line. Again, there are exceptions.
3- If so does it ever get old to fan and flourish and w/e else you do with a deck... meaning after an hour of playing with it are you basically done with the deck never to use it again?
No, and I don't really play with any one deck for that long because it will cause too much wear on a deck. Any decks that aren't practice decks I handle carefully and deliberately, merely to enhance my enjoyment of the art (fans, twirls, displays etc).
4- Why are you a cardist? Is it because you want to be a magician and perform for people? If not do you get pleasure just manipulating the decks ( in front of a mirror perhaps)
Magic is about doing things that aren't supposed to be seen. Cardistry is about doing things that are supposed to be seen. It's very different, for me anyway, to perform either. Magic makes me much more nervous, I suppose because of the possibility of "getting caught". And no, I don't primarily do it for the sake of performing for other people (and the attention that carries), I've had an interest in and enjoyment from manipulating various objects since I bought a Zippo lighter at age 17. It brings a similar feeling of accomplishment as other physical feats, but on a smaller scale, as well as a feeling of control. Magic is too much about the presentation and patter for my taste/personality type, and also you can't really do it "for" yourself.
5- Why not use ordinary Bicycle deck to practice cardistry as it would be much cheaper
See answer to question 3. Anyone who is both a cardist and a collector most likely has designated practice decks, though.
6- Any collector usually likes the valuation of their collectibles to some degree or another. Does it bother you that opening a deck and using it greatly diminishes its resale value
No (also see answer to question 2).

[alric]

Very interesting thread. I always collected too, usually baseball/basketball cards, then coins. I'm not a hardcore poker player (I could never justify 10 grand for one tournament, I could have pocket aces and get cracked by some donkey who thinks 8-10 suited is a great hand to play, even with a big pre-flop bet and my ten grand goes down the drain...). But I like to play all kinds of different card games, not just poker. That's what brought me to the world of custom playing cards. I got into flourishing/xcm for a bit, but not so much now.

1- Do you pass on very nice decks because they are not on your preferred stock? No, the collector side of me will buy the deck regardless of stock if its nice enough.

2- Do you open every single deck you buy? Probably 90% of the decks I buy, I open and use. Decks that cost more than $25 I tend to keep sealed for collecting.

3- If so does it ever get old to fan and flourish and w/e else you do with a deck... meaning after an hour of playing with it are you basically done with the deck never to use it again? No. But if I only had a few decks, then maybe it might get boring. I have enough different decks so that I have a rotation, and that gives me enough variety to last.

4- Why are you a cardist? Is it because you want to be a magician and perform for people? If not do you get pleasure just manipulating the decks ( in front of a mirror perhaps) I got into it because of Dan and Dave. I always liked to see close up card magic. Love David Blaine. But when I saw Dan and Dave do magic, but with their added crazy flourishes, it made the magic that much more impressive. I'm no magician, but I thought I could do some of the flourishes, and that lead me to cardistry. Too bad Dan and Dave jumped the shark like they did. Its fun when you master a move or a type of fan. When I show people different flourishes, cuts, and fans, some people get it and are impressed, others think its stupid and I'm just moving the cards randomly. I did some moves at a poker game with some friends, and a couple of them insisted that I could no longer deal hands because they didn't trust me anymore. I thought that was funny.

5- Why not use ordinary Bicycle deck to practice cardistry as it would be much cheaper When I started out, it was strictly Bikes. Good quality, but cheap enough that I don't mind tossing a well used deck after the cards have been dropped a hundred times.

6- Any collector usually likes the valuation of their collectibles to some degree or another. Does it bother you that opening a deck and using it greatly diminishes its resale value I hardly ever "speculate" with expensive decks solely for the purpose of selling them later for a profit. I get decks basically for my own satisfaction, not to make money in the future. If a deck shoots up in value like Jerry's Nuggets, then that's just an added bonus, but I don't count on it happening. I always try to get 3 or 4 decks so I can have one or two sealed and the rest to use. This way, I get maximum use and enjoyment with my decks, but have a couple sealed in reserve just in case the value goes crazy.

[Mirror]

1- Do you pass on very nice decks because they are not on your preferred stock?
I don't see myself as a collector, really, but I have a strong affinity towards design. Of course the quality of a deck is also very important. For me it's important that a deck looks AND handles good. I don't have a preferred stock or finish, as long as the deck handles nicely it's fine. Designwise, it's the back design that is really important to me. If the faces are custom, great, but if only the back design is custom and looks nice with the faces being standard that's fine with me.
To sum this up: Will I buy a deck that looks gorgeous but handles like cardboard? No. Will I buy a deck that handles very well but looks horrible? No, most likely not. Both are equally important.

2- Do you open every single deck you buy?
Yes. The only decks I have sealed are decks that are duplicates. I keep those sealed until the one I opened can't be used anymore (though that has yet to happen, since I take good care of my cards and I have not yet wrecked a single deck)

3- If so does it ever get old to fan and flourish and w/e else you do with a deck... meaning after an hour of playing with it are you basically done with the deck never to use it again?
I don't get bored by my decks because I only buy the decks that I really like. And since I have lots of different decks which hold up for ages, I can use them for years without getting bored of them.

4- Why are you a cardist? Is it because you want to be a magician and perform for people? If not do you get pleasure just manipulating the decks ( in front of a mirror perhaps)
Mainly because it's fun to practice and create flourishes. I also love making videos and sharing them with other card flourishers. I don't do magic anymore even though it's what first got me into Cardistry. I just don't have any fun doing it any more so I stopped and I'm now focusing on Cardistry.

5- Why not use ordinary Bicycle deck to practice cardistry as it would be much cheaper
Because it's more fun to switch it up and since I take good care of my cards, I can use expensive decks without having to worry about them getting destroyed.

6- Any collector usually likes the valuation of their collectibles to some degree or another. Does it bother you that opening a deck and using it greatly diminishes its resale value
As stated in No. 1 I don't really see myself as a collector. Therefore I don't buy decks with the same intent a collector would. I buy decks with the intent to use them for Cardistry and that's it. Of course, when using a rare deck, I have this thought in the back of my head, that the deck I'm using is valuable and that I should be more careful than with a less valuable deck (which I do) but I don't buy decks with the intent of selling them later. So no, it doesn't bother me at all.