Bicycle branded vs Non branded ??

[Levereno]

shooting out my deck in kickstarter soon. Need help with branding. Do kickstarters rather tend to back Bicycle branded decks or unbranded? what is the ratio between success of bicycle branded decks vs unbranded in kickstarter? should I make my deck unbranded or make it Bicycle to attract mass audience? KS specially.

[vasta41]

Not sure if this is the correct section for this post but I vote Bicycle branded all the way. I'm very biased.

[Levereno]

Mods will move it to the right section. Thanks though.

[Eoghann]

Mods will move it to the right section.

Well isn't that just convenient. Just post anywhere! We'll sort it out like an uptight librarian with OCD. Don't you worry!


One thing I'll say: if you think the success of a deck depends on wether it's branded or not; then get back to the drawing board until you are confident the design can succeed with or without a brand on it. Bicycle branding is just the icing on the cake. It will pull more people with a sweet tooth, but your deck should speak for itself.

[jerichoholic]

I think it just depends on the deck and/or creator. There is lots of unbranded decks that do very well and lots of Bicycle branded decks that fail miserably.

[MagikFingerz]

One thing I'll say: if you think the success of a deck depends on wether it's branded or not; then get back to the drawing board until you are confident the design can succeed with or without a brand on it. Bicycle branding is just the icing on the cake. It will pull more people with a sweet tooth, but your deck should speak for itself.

This. If your deck NEEDS branding to succeed, it's not good enough. Also, keep in mind that the brand name takes up a sizable amount of real estate on your tuck box, so your design might not look good with the Bicycle logo plastered over it.

[Levereno]

Mods will move it to the right section.

Well isn't that just convenient. Just post anywhere! We'll sort it out like an uptight librarian with OCD. Don't you worry!


One thing I'll say: if you think the success of a deck depends on wether it's branded or not; then get back to the drawing board until you are confident the design can succeed with or without a brand on it. Bicycle branding is just the icing on the cake. It will pull more people with a sweet tooth, but your deck should speak for itself.

Haha, didn't know what section a post like this would belong to. PLUS this section is where you get the most attention so it kinda made sense for me.

Deck has gone through a couple changes and looks brilliant. The courts look outstanding (well at least to me). I will update on the olympus thread. As far as the deck goes, it looks great. Bicycle branded decks in fact do have higher chances of success since they are known for their quality which attracts masses. But then again we have unbranded decks like muertos which made over $150,000.

[MagikFingerz]

Bicycle branded decks in fact do have higher chances of success since they are known for their quality which attracts masses. But then again we have unbranded decks like muertos which made over $150,000.

The branding doesn't add nor remove anything related to quality, and I would think (or at least hope) that most people know that by now. "Printed by USPCC" is what makes any difference, the branding is really just whether you like the brand NAME or not. These days it's much more of a toss-up than it was a few years ago, more and more collectors realize that it doesn't matter. But in the end, a Coke bottle with "Coca Cola" on the label will always sell better than one without it (excluding other brands).

[Levereno]

Bicycle branded decks in fact do have higher chances of success since they are known for their quality which attracts masses. But then again we have unbranded decks like muertos which made over $150,000.

The branding doesn't add nor remove anything related to quality, and I would think (or at least hope) that most people know that by now. "Printed by USPCC" is what makes any difference, the branding is really just whether you like the brand NAME or not. These days it's much more of a toss-up than it was a few years ago, more and more collectors realize that it doesn't matter. But in the end, a Coke bottle with "Coca Cola" on the label will always sell better than one without it (excluding other brands).

So what would be the best choice for me? Considering my deck/artwork design (pips, courts, numbers, tuck) looks great enough to succeed. What would be your choice if put in the same shoes?

I know for a fact that there are dozens of consumers like vasta41 who would blindly fall into the Bicycle pit. Not to mention having the Bicycle brand comes with multiple perks. It will not only attract the Bicyclers but will also chart for the get-go consumers who don't care about branding. Something that will fit for everybody.

Having a Non-bicycle brand deck will upset consumers like vasta41. So that calls for losing lots of potential buyers who prefer Bicycle.

[Eoghann]

People won't pledge JUST because it's Bicycle. Well, maybe Jay because he actually collects the brand. If vasta doesn't like your design, you can put the logo on every card and he still won't pledge. But I'm speaking for him, I'll let him answer that.

At the end of the day it's up to you. If you want branding, by all means go for it. If you think the deck looks weird without it, slap it on. But at no point assume it will guarantee your success. If the design is strong enough and attractive enough, people will pledge regardless.

As it's been said before, at this point it's a toss up. Both branded and unbranded have seen equal share in success and failure.

[MagikFingerz]

Truth be told, it's impossible to say which is the best choice beforehand. What I would recommend is that you look at your work and your vision of what you want to make. Does Bicycle branding fit with that, or even better, compliment it? If so, then by all means choose to get it. If it doesn't, then you shouldn't let yourself be swayed by the potential financial gains or increase in customers/backers (which in reality is merely hypothetical). Some decks look great with the branding, others do not. Make the choice that works best with YOUR deck.

PS. I wrote this before Eoghann's post, and I see it's pretty much exactly what he said

[Levereno]

Truth be told, it's impossible to say which is the best choice beforehand. What I would recommend is that you look at your work and your vision of what you want to make. Does Bicycle branding fit with that, or even better, compliment it? If so, then by all means choose to get it. If it doesn't, then you shouldn't let yourself be swayed by the potential financial gains or increase in customers/backers (which in reality is merely hypothetical). Some decks look great with the branding, others do not. Make the choice that works best with YOUR deck.

PS. I wrote this before Eoghann's post, and I see it's pretty much exactly what he said

Agree with both of your points. But I am in NO WAY saying that simply putting a bicycle logo on a cheap design will attract collectors. I was specifically researching the likes/dislikes of people in Kickstarter by simply glimpsing the successful projects. And it did turn out that most of them were Bicycle branded. Again, I understand that for a deck to be successful it doesn't have to be Bicycle branded, people would back regardless just by looking at the uniqueness of the art itself. I understand that, however, as Eoghann said, it's icing on the cake. Grabbing his point in hand, let's take muertos for example. If it was Bicycle branded, would it have more potential backers? Or would the success remain the same?

[MagikFingerz]

Agree with both of your points. But I am in NO WAY saying that simply putting a bicycle logo on a cheap design will attract collectors. I was specifically researching the likes/dislikes of people in Kickstarter by simply glimpsing the successful projects. And it did turn out that most of them were Bicycle branded. Again, I understand that for a deck to be successful it doesn't have to be Bicycle branded, people would back regardless just by looking at the uniqueness of the art itself. I understand that, however, as Eoghann said, it's icing on the cake. Grabbing his point in hand, let's take muertos for example. If it was Bicycle branded, would it have more potential backers? Or would the success remain the same?

That was part of my point, although I could have been more specific. I think there's NO way finding that out, because every deck is different and the market is different at any point in time. Also, I think that IF we could determine the difference the brand makes it wouldn't be big enough to make an impact one way or another. Keywords here are, of course, "I think". Would love to hear what others think is the case, even if we can't prove anything.

[sinjin7]

I agree with all the other posters who already made the point that every deck is unique and a deck should be able to stand on its own regardless of branding. Having said that, I think the question you're asking is if ALL things are EQUAL (and they rarely are) should one go with Bicycle branding or not? My answer would be to go with the branding then. More people on the fence will be swayed to support the branded deck as opposed to people on the fence that would be put off by it and not support.

[Levereno]

Agree with both of your points. But I am in NO WAY saying that simply putting a bicycle logo on a cheap design will attract collectors. I was specifically researching the likes/dislikes of people in Kickstarter by simply glimpsing the successful projects. And it did turn out that most of them were Bicycle branded. Again, I understand that for a deck to be successful it doesn't have to be Bicycle branded, people would back regardless just by looking at the uniqueness of the art itself. I understand that, however, as Eoghann said, it's icing on the cake. Grabbing his point in hand, let's take muertos for example. If it was Bicycle branded, would it have more potential backers? Or would the success remain the same?

That was part of my point, although I could have been more specific. I think there's NO way finding that out, because every deck is different and the market is different at any point in time. Also, I think that IF we could determine the difference the brand makes it wouldn't be big enough to make an impact one way or another. Keywords here are, of course, "I think". Would love to hear what others think is the case, even if we can't prove anything.

Take it as a noob's perspective. A noob who's new to the playing cards world would pick a bicycle and would prioritize the brand over others. Why? simply because the brand is famous/known/expensive/trustable and favored by Casinos players, magicians and cardists worldwide. it doesn't take a 5 year old to know how famous a Bicycle brand is.

The target audience for kickstarter campaigns are not the people who have mastered the genre, it's also to target those little noobs who have no idea which deck to trust beforehand.

[Jock1971]

Take it as a noob's perspective. A noob who's new to the playing cards world would pick a bicycle and would prioritize the brand over others. Why? simply because the brand is famous/known/expensive/trustable and favored by Casinos players, magicians and cardists worldwide. it doesn't take a 5 year old to know how famous a Bicycle brand is.

The target audience for kickstarter campaigns are not the people who have mastered the genre, it's also to target those little noobs who have no idea which deck to trust beforehand.

When i first started collecting cards off kickstarter at the beginning of the year, i had not heard of Bicycle brand cards and i`m 43 years old.
I`ve backed decks with and without branding, i`ve backed decks from a wide variety of printers, including some very small printers in britain.
The only thing that matters to me when backing is if i like the cards..it`s that simple.

[Levereno]

When i first started collecting cards off kickstarter at the beginning of the year, i had not heard of Bicycle brand cards and i`m 43 years old.
I`ve backed decks with and without branding, i`ve backed decks from a wide variety of printers, including some very small printers in britain.
The only thing that matters to me when backing is if i like the cards..it`s that simple.

Interesting. I was being general though. But interesting point.

[Levereno]

Let's add more interest to the thread. Here's a very early choppy unfinished Ace of spades medusa.

Thoughts?

[Levereno]

Was wondering what would happen if I make it gold and put it under a red background so it could match the tuck/card back and overall theme of the deck.

[montecarlojoe]

I appreciate the though behind posting these here, but you have a thread for your deck already. Please post those there and keep this thread for the question about branding. Thanks.
(Love that ace!)

[sprouts1115]

@levereno - Believe it or not, If you print from the USPCC your already branded. The "Bicycle" logo to me is .80 extra per deck and takes away ¼ of my front of box artwork. If you're worried about making it known this deck is printed by the USPCC. I would find ways to do it for free. You have the "Side Panel" put a fat "Made by the USPCC, (Bicycle or Bee) stock with (Embossed or Smooth) finish. There you saved yourself close to a $1 a deck and people know what they are getting....

[Levereno]

I appreciate the though behind posting these here, but you have a thread for your deck already. Please post those there and keep this thread for the question about branding. Thanks.
(Love that ace!)

Agreed, go ahead and delete the posts.

@sprouts, true, good point. Though at the end of the day what people really tend to look is the printer. If it's USPCC they'll buy it, otherwise it's a big no no. Bicycle branding just slightly elevates it's potential of success. And it also automatically tells the consumer that it will be printed by the USPCC. I dunno, at this point. I'm confused. Don't really know which one to go with.

If you look at "The name of the wind" or jackson robinson's decks, which blew everyone with their massive success you will see that their decks are all Bikes. I think it's a big consumer tactic. Otherwise everyone would be making custom branded decks and trash Bicycle away. Hey If there is no need for Bicycle, then why the Hell does the brand even exist? It's there for a reason. And it's a BIG marketing tactic.

You see Bicycle decks in about every Gas station. You see them dominating in accessory shops and convenient stores. You will have to search really hard to find an unbranded deck in store these days.

You pick up a Bicycle deck and you see a big ole stoogy stamp saying 130 of expertise. Who would you trust? a 1$ unbranded deck from dollar store or a Bicycle branded deck printed by the USPCC?

[volantangel]

It seems like you already have your answer, i cant say i agree with it, but you seem convinced. And honestly there is no right or wrong answer, its a matter of weighing the cost and benefits, and everyone's scales measure differently =)

[Levereno]

It seems like you already have your answer, i cant say i agree with it, but you seem convinced. And honestly there is no right or wrong answer, its a matter of weighing the cost and benefits, and everyone's scales measure differently =)

True. I agree. there isn't a right or wrong answer. It could work either way. Great artwork can never outweigh brand preferences. It's a matter of a great artwork that draws everyone in, with an exception of few people that would prefer brand over "No brand".

[volantangel]

Exactly, I think you have gotten the gist of our answers, design trumps branding