Alice of Wonderland Playing Cards now live on Kickstarter

[DragonSoul]

I don't understand this. Is he saying that USPCC has some sort of contract with Disney about what they can and can not print when it comes to anything that might be Disney related? Is it something new or different than what was in place when the White Rabbit deck was printed? Because I see nothing in the artwork that relates specifically to anything Disney has done. And how can Cartamundi print these without worrying about stepping on anyone's toes? But most importantly, how can this issue not have been discussed before this finished funding?

[Brillig]

I am not a copyright attorney. That said, my understanding of how these things works is something like this.

USPCC prints White Rabbit
Disney lawyers notice, send USPCC a Cease and Desist letter
USPCC says 'Ok, we won't print any more Alice related material'

Thus, USPCC can't print the Alice deck. However, since Cartamundi has not received a C&D letter, they can still print. Presumably, they will receive one shortly after the Alice deck is printed and distributed.

[Eoghann]

I am not a copyright attorney. That said, my understanding of how these things works is something like this.

USPCC prints White Rabbit
Disney lawyers notice, send USPCC a Cease and Desist letter
USPCC says 'Ok, we won't print any more Alice related material'

Thus, USPCC can't print the Alice deck. However, since Cartamundi has not received a C&D letter, they can still print. Presumably, they will receive one shortly after the Alice deck is printed and distributed.

Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass is public domain as far as I know. I'm pretty sure the problem resides on the fact that the characters' colors and depiction are based on Disney. The Chesire Cat isn't described as a purple and pink cat in the book, however Disney depicts it that way. Juan's cat is very similar to that. He might be able to get away with it if he recolors some of them and distances them as much from Disney as possible.

[Brillig]

In case anyone missed it, he has offered to refund people who wish to withdraw. So while it is disappointing, and perhaps poor planning, he is trying to do the right thing.

[Sharpie]

I'm totally baffled by this. Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass are both Lewis Carroll books that are in the public domain. Anyone can use them.

If, however, there is something in these decks that specifically references the Disney version, then there's a problem.
Perhaps Disney's title "Alice in Wonderland" was too close to "Alice of Wonderland"

I feel like sometimes the USPCC plays it too safe. Like they don't want offend the giant that is Disney, over something that is not even infringing on their copyright. So they don't look like they're letting someone slip one by their legal department, and thereby drive big businesses away.

Rant over. Le sigh.

[Verloren]

I am not a copyright attorney. That said, my understanding of how these things works is something like this.

USPCC prints White Rabbit
Disney lawyers notice, send USPCC a Cease and Desist letter
USPCC says 'Ok, we won't print any more Alice related material'

Thus, USPCC can't print the Alice deck. However, since Cartamundi has not received a C&D letter, they can still print. Presumably, they will receive one shortly after the Alice deck is printed and distributed.

I don't think there is a C&D letter from Disney. Albino Dragon is going through a v2 printing of the White Rabbit deck, and there hasn't been any word from them on being unable to go through their deck again.

[montecarlojoe]

I feel like sometimes the USPCC plays it too safe.

This.

There was a similar problem witht the Four Horsemen deck. Originally USPCC stated that they would not print the Lamb of God on the joker as it was a satanic symbol because it represents jebus bowing down to satan.

When it was pointed out that:

A: No it flipping doesn't, try reading Revelations.
and
B: The four horsemen arguably ARE satanic symbols though...

... they changed their minds.

[MagikFingerz]

Well, it's going to be printed by Cartamundi. Backerkit invites have been sent out.

The creator also added "Steampunk" to the title, as well as modify the Cheshire Cat artwork, to prevent future problems.

[flyers3003]

To Juan's credit, he did give me a refund.

[vmagic]

Well I just got these and as nice as they look they didn't get embossed finish for some unknown reason nor metallic inks on the tuck boxes, oh well. Just somewhat disappointed. I had no problem changing to Cartamundi but I expected a somewhat comparable product or at least finish/stock, not this. Also disappointed that some of the cards came with chipping on the borders right out of the box, haven't seen that before.

[th4mo]

Four months past the delivery date and many (most?) backers, including myself, still have not received their decks...

He's selling them on his website as "Highly Collectable" (maybe because hundreds of backers are still waiting for their decks?)...
http://aliceofwonderland.com/product/al ... ing-cards/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And he's got a new project underway on Indiegogo (trying to hide from his KS backers perhaps?)...
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/alice ... c=activity

The BALLS on this guy!

Even if some have received their decks by now, this project clearly belongs in the Hall of Shame!!!
http://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4317" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[montecarlojoe]

2 months to go!

Still waiting on mine as it goes!

[th4mo]

2 months to go!

Still waiting on mine as it goes!

Even if he delivers them all tomorrow...
Starting a new project while the first one is stagnated is just shameful!!!

[montecarlojoe]

I agree that it's not been well managed - but 6 months is the cut-off for the HoS. It's purposely long so people can't really complain about ending up there! This project probably will end up in there - I can't see him sending everything out in the next 8 weeks.

(Keep an eye out next week - there will definitely be new additions to the HoS...)

[chach]

He's publicly stated that he doesn't have the funds to ship decks out and that's the reason he's selling them separately, so he can raise money to pay for the shipping. I've written off ever receiving my decks, the dude is a moron and a crook in my eyes.

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

I got mine, but in all seriousness it's the worst deck I've ever received ... the stock from Cartmundi was not on par with what we're all used to from Bike

my review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2oXgcbxnsQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sprouts1115]

@ Magic_Othodoxy - Watched your video. Seemed pretty honest....

[Lotrek]

What is really disheartening is all this effort by backers to help him get funded during the last days. This makes me mad!

Will the world ever get rid of crooks?

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

N E W - U P D A T E ( June 17, 2014 )

This will be a short update about shipping. As some of you have known, I have been trying to raise funds at conventions to help with shipping with little success. I am no longer going to conventions and will focus on staying in my area working to get your decks shipped. My partners, however, will continue working the conventions to raise funds by selling non-project items to help get your decks out. I have had some personal and financial issues that have affected my life severely, and I am just trying to survive at this point. I have been stressed out over this project, but my intent and goal has always been to complete it.

I will resume shipping this weekend. I can only ship week to week, in piece-mail amounts. I will ship what I am personally able to afford. The partners I have been working with have tried to help me with this project, and are continuing to help with fulfillment. However, I personally want to make sure that I can at least resume shipping.

I apologize sincerely for the long delay. If you have any questions, please direct them and any concerns at our main email address:

info@aliceofwonderland.com

Thank you

[Cbkimble]

I just ordered one of each from GW. I'm gonna learn to do some research on these decks before buying them.

[Mike Ratledge]

What is really disheartening is all this effort by backers to help him get funded during the last days. This makes me mad!

Will the world ever get rid of crooks?

The simple answer to that question is "Yes", WE will.

[montecarlojoe]

I don't think I'd put Juan in the 'Crook' pile - more the woefully inept one.

He's a decent artist, and by all accounts is genuine in his effort s to ship, but his good will and creativity didn't help him in negotiotions or accounting (where your skill needs to equal or better your art).

It's where many fall down I think - jumping in the deep end into a multi thousand dollar committment without really understanding what that entails.

Some run and hide, and whilst I am FAR than happy with Juan, I'm glad he seems to be sticking with it.

But as Mike says, the future is bright on this front

[Lotrek]

I don't think I'd put Juan in the 'Crook' pile - more the woefully inept one.

He's a decent artist, and by all accounts is genuine in his effort s to ship, but his good will and creativity didn't help him in negotiotions or accounting (where your skill needs to equal or better your art).

It's where many fall down I think - jumping in the deep end into a multi thousand dollar committment without really understanding what that entails.

Some run and hide, and whilst I am FAR than happy with Juan, I'm glad he seems to be sticking with it.

But as Mike says, the future is bright on this front

I agree about Juan. When I wrote that comment I didn't know what exactly was going on. It's definitely a credit for him the fact that he is trying to send all decks to the backers.

[rjtomlinson1977]

I don't think I'd put Juan in the 'Crook' pile - more the woefully inept one.

He's a decent artist, and by all accounts is genuine in his effort s to ship, but his good will and creativity didn't help him in negotiotions or accounting (where your skill needs to equal or better your art).

It's where many fall down I think - jumping in the deep end into a multi thousand dollar committment without really understanding what that entails.

Some run and hide, and whilst I am FAR than happy with Juan, I'm glad he seems to be sticking with it.

But as Mike says, the future is bright on this front

I agree about Juan. When I wrote that comment I didn't know what exactly was going on. It's definitely a credit for him the fact that he is trying to send all decks to the backers.

I second that opinion. A lot of people get in over their head. True Crooks will run and hide but honest people will suffer the costs to make things right.

[Sher]

I third that opinion. I still haven't gotten my decks, but I'm being patient and hope he gets through this.

[framegod]

Tried to contact Juan @ info@aliceofwonderland.com And recieved this in reply:

Hi.... I've noticed over the course of six months that I've seen a lot of emails coming from Juan's kickstarter project. Myself (Troy Don) and Lizzie Phillips went into business with Juan and took him to conventions between the months of Feb-May promoting a trading card game. In may we found out that this kickstarter project was way behind and that he was telling backers events that were not the truth.

The trading card game looks like it's going the same way as the kickstarter. He received all of the funds and then we never heard back from him, and if we did it was excuses of why they artwork wasn't completed.

We are actually putting together a class action lawsuit against Juan and welcome anyone that is part of his kickstarter project to be included in this action.

Per the contract that he has signed we now own the Alice of Wonderland name....but have noticed that he is now using Sketch2Draw to hide from everyone. He also receives almost $1,000 a month from YouTube for his videos a month. Which is why we are asking ourselves why he can not finish the art for the game .... let alone ship decks to his backer from Kickstarter.

Can you please contact me @ 757-903-9414 if that is ok with you to talk about what you are going through with kickstarter. We are going to put this in with our class action paperwork against him to show a pattern.

Thank you

Troy Don

Looks like Juan is one for the roads and said forget it I'm out of here. You can right this one off as another second rate scam job by default.

[Eoghann]

Damn. So sorry he ultimately decided to make a run for it.

[chach]

Damn. So sorry he ultimately decided to make a run for it.

Not entirely (if you actually believe his verbal diarrhea that is). Update sent out earlier today. Basically he was going to try to run, then realized he's getting sued and is only now trying to make good again. Please tell me this is in the Hall of Shame now.

Small Bundled Shipping

This is just a short update that I am resuming shipping of decks. I am also resolving whatever hardships I am going through here at home and working things out with my partners at Alice of Wonderland Entertainment.

This week I will focus on shipping decks to those that have sent me messages. I will work on getting decks shipped on a daily basis in order to create some momentum. I apologize for the wait. Thanks.

[badpete69]

Wow quite the story. i had not pledged for this deck but bought them on ebay at some point and got them fast...Hopefully everyone will get their decks or refunds

[framegod]

His response to me then his update to everyone:


I will send you your decks in a day or 2. Is your address the same?

Just to inform you, I am not making the amount that Troy mentioned from my Youtube channel. That varies month to month, and my earnings have gone down, so I need to create more videos.

I am taking steps to make sure I earn enough to live from, and have extra to pay for shipping. But you are correct, I need to ship out these decks.

This week I will ship to those that have contacted me, and will try to ship on a daily basis what I can. This will create momentum that I can use.

I will add tracking to your cards as soon as I ship. Thanks.

Lets see if he lives up to it.