"Venexiana Dark" by Lotrek: Funding(funded) on KS!

[bamabenz]

We are trying to work things out with paypal, however they are extremely slow to respond, hopefully we will get it up asap.

I don't really understand this. PayPal has a lot of companies that integrate with them. Unless you're a big company, they don't really offer personalized support -- isnt' most of the support is done through developer forums? Also, why in the world did you hire a developer to create a commerce site without experience integrating with payment companies?

/bama

[Mike Ratledge]

Any chance you'll have PayPal hooked-up before the Venexiana Dark's campaign ends?
That's the only think stopping me from pledging.

/bama

I'd love to say "Yes", Todd, but to be honest every time I send more information they request something else. Believe me, after six weeks of testing we did every single thing they asked for during testing including even the dumbest sample data test (like 4444 3333 2222 1111 as a 'dummy' Visa that is supposed to get rejected), and every single thing in their "Crowd Funding guidelines" online, but I have little faith that they are actually moving with any forward speed. Nobody is more astonished that they have dragged their feet more than I am, because at first we didn't even consider taking WePay. Amazon Payments was said to be "any time" more than two months ago, but it is not available and when I asked they said "not soon, but working on it". It's one thing I am truly PO'd about, because if we had depended 100% on PayPal we wouldn't be able to take payments at all. If there is anything I can do to help I will. Even take your payment by PP using my "PayPal Here" card swipe dongle on my smartphone and key it in manually and do the payment myself for you on CL. I'm truly ticked off at this point, they move about as fast as snails on a trip sliding up a rail.

We are looking at some alternate methods like maybe doing those as a 'manual payment', but to be honest it's such a pain in the arse for us, it's not likely we can, simply because of how many people would want to do that. Believe me, there's nothing I'd love to say more than "Yeah - I expect it tomorrow" because that's what I've been expecting since the Monday after they requested more information (after showing "Approved" for more than 6 full weeks while we were beta testing in 'sandbox' mode (meaning payments appeared to process, but were marked "test" so they could never be actually processed).

There is nothing more frustrating than dealing with the 800# gorillas on the Internet!

[Strag]

Speaking for myself, there are several reasons why I think this hasn't funded yet.

1. Promotion. Both the site as well as the decks need to be promoted. I'm not seeing any promotion whatsoever other than emails direct from CardLauncher and a few posts on Kickstarter projects from creators who also had projects on there. The reality is the CardLauncher "launch" should have included a significant marketing budget to create awareness and buzz. This also would have been quite costly.

2. Launch issues. Mutliple bugs, crashes, inability to easily change pledges... these are all warning signs and will and have caused people to either drop pledges or not pledge. My initial pledge was for the Good vs. Evil decks, but that was because that was the only project I was able to pledge for! I've since deleted my pledge because of various concerns.

3. Saturation. The market itself is saturated. There is only so much money to be had (without market expansion) and the market has reached a tipping point (not a bubble mind you). I used to have 8-10 KS pledges active at any one time and I would assume I was at the high end of pledgers. Now I have 3-4 on KS and maybe a few other orders out there. There are too many projects and I'm being more picky and also many projects have more decks within them which appeals to me as an International as it allows the high shipping costs to be amortized and make more sense.

4. Site navigation. I personally don't think the CardLauncher site is all that easy to use. It's easy to critisize Kickstarter but the reality is that they at least have their pledge software down pat. There are lots of things I dislike about their site, but making a pledge is easy as pie. The fact that I'm being asked to enter my credit card details for every single pledge on CL - well no way I'm not doing that. It's a gigantic pain in the ass.

5. Launch product selection. I think there were too many projects launched at once. I would have stuck with Dark V and Good v. Evil or Brimstone for launch (and I'm not convinced on Brimstone as it's just a recolour and a reprint). Most people aren't going to do all four and you are basically forcing them to choose. The Can-eh-diana deck is just not a good quality deck IMO. As it stands now it's the only one that will fund but that's because of a rediculously low goal.

6. Confusion. I have no idea why a 5th deck is being teased already. Why tell people to hold off on pledging and wait for another deck that's coming? It's too soon to be touting another deck and should have been done here and on social media, not on the CL site.

7. Payments. Payments are a key part of any online business. Consumers want choice and they want payment options they trust. This is one area I know a lot about and one where CL really should have waited to launch until at a minimum Amazon payments was in place. I just don't trust WePay and their system is clunky. This is the other reason I pulled my pledge as I simply don't want my transaction going through WePay. I trust Amazon and I trust PayPal. There are other vendors I would have trusted as well (such as Skrill for example) but I have no idea if they are set up for CrowdFunding which is a quite complex proposition.

Anyway, that's just a few of my reasons. I'm sure there are points of contention here but I'm putting my thoughts out there. Perhaps this is better suited for the CL thread so if a mod wants to move this post of there feel free.

[Cbkimble]

Anyway, that's just a few of my reasons. I'm sure there are points of contention here but I'm putting my thoughts out there. Perhaps this is better suited for the CL thread so if a mod wants to move this post of there feel free.

Very we'll put strag. You definitely hit on the strong points.

[Mike Ratledge]

I can't and don't argue any of them, Chris. The fact is we have some people asking for more choices, and just like you others saying we picked two too many. There is no way to please all, we went for a balance with two established decks and two new artists.

Software, my personal nightmare... It's always something, as people say. We had the two issues working several times after problems during testing. The new model for choosing rewards was a mess, and we simplified things to get it working. Missing quantities, missing reward tiers after pledges, all were there until are back now but I know it's inevitable that something is always going to be wrong. Now, I'd love to just pour money on it, but we don't have the revenue stream that the big boys do. A billion dollars a year is a lot of money, and pays to make things just right. We will get there, it's an iterative process.

Payments partners, my least favorite topic because PayPal didn't say a word about problems until the very day before the launch (well, two, actually), and have been an exhausting, immovable object since. You can best your head until it is bloody to no avail and have nothing to show for it, except a bloody scalp, I suppose.

You should not have to give information each time. If you create a WePay account, just like with PayPal,, it asks you to log in and the only thing that you do is pick your funding method. Not obvious, I agree, and we really planned for things to be simple, with the exception that you could pick which payments gateway you wanted to use.

Beside the point, though. We worked on getting the two (quantities and reward tiers display) back, and both work. The Sold Out problem was not apparent during any phase of testing until the very last minute, and it was also fixed about 15 minutes after we officially opened. The one major pain in my side is the Cancel problem, and you showed a way around or workaround for it. I thank you for that, frankly, because the second level code people are still trying to figure out why it's not working. All my problems, I take the reigns, I accept the issues as my own, and teen found a couple of cosmetic issues that were exposed in the code and fixed them myself. I should not have to do so, but I am glad that I did. It's so intensely frustrating for me personally that I wonder just how it could be so hard, then I remember the late night coding sessions when I was younger. There are always unseen issues in code, but I want perfection, just like you. I don't. Are excuses either, but reasons. All in all it is a headache that should have a ended a week ago now, but persists until the very last problematic thing is fixed simply because they have been magnified beyond proportion. Is cancel an insurmountable issue. You proved it wasn't. Does that make me feel better, of course not. It irritates the hell out of me because it should be them and not you finding the fixes.

Advertising, is being done, but as you noted, costs money and we concentrate on the few certain situations where we know there is growth opportunities. I wish I had rehab $50 million in revenue to put a bit (lot?) into spreading the word.

[StanKindLee]

I think the card deck saturation thingie should be noted again. From the time I started following card decks (first on KS), the active project number is 3, nearly 4 times what it was less than a year ago, plus their are other crowd funding sites in the mix now too. My close to poverty artist income (read: not starving but little extras) allow me to collect a deck a month or so and maybe a couple if the price is right. LEs are out since single decks & sets can quickly blow most of my annual budget for such things. And I have sooooo many fine choices when deciding what September's pick will be.

[Mike Ratledge]

Stan, this really should be in the SWTWC 3 thread, and I already colored the water answering Strag above, so I moved my response over there.

Same thing for your question, Bama - just belongs elsewhere and we've all hijacked enough threads here lately, myself being the worst offender, no doubt.

[Lotrek]

Sorry to interrupt the discussion about crowdfunding

I just wanted to post two new images: The revised tuck case and the new look for the Limited Edition court cards. I've been working a lot the past days in order to bring some real darkness to the cards, while avoiding the (beaten to death) black faces.

JoS LTD fin lo.JPG (221.51 KiB) Viewed 2659 times

Back LTD metallic.JPG (196.18 KiB) Viewed 2659 times

[volantangel]

Mmmm yummy, dare I ask for the masks to be slightly larger and pushed backwards ? I really liked the size of the masks on the previous iteration.

[Eoghann]

My, my that is lovely!

[Mike Ratledge]

Sorry to interrupt the discussion about crowdfunding

I just wanted to post two new images: The revised tuck case and the new look for the Limited Edition court cards. I've been working a lot the past days in order to bring some real darkness to the cards, while avoiding the (beaten to death) black faces.

At the risk of pouring on even more of a recently abused phrase: awesome sauce! Just looks better every day, buddy!

[StanKindLee]

Diggin' the colours of the Jack... not sure how I'm feeling about the "VD" on the backs though.

[rousselle]

Lotrek may not be aware that those letters have a specific connotation in glorious North America.

Hey, Lotrek... did you know that it is common for Americans and Canadians to refer to sexually transmitted diseases (or, venereal diseases) as "VD?"

[Lotrek]

Lotrek may not be aware that those letters have a specific connotation in glorious North America.

Hey, Lotrek... did you know that it is common for Americans and Canadians to refer to sexually transmitted diseases (or, venereal diseases) as "VD?"

Ehh... Although this kind of diseases were common in Venice, I'd better get rid of the VD.

Thanks!

[Cbkimble]

Lotrek may not be aware that those letters have a specific connotation in glorious North America.

Hey, Lotrek... did you know that it is common for Americans and Canadians to refer to sexually transmitted diseases (or, venereal diseases) as "VD?"

I thought the exact same thing when I saw it. I love it except for the fact that it is a diseased deck. Lol.

[Lotrek]

Instead of "Veneral Diseases" I think I'll have the half moon from HMPC logo. Fits the night Venice better...

Back fin LTD lo.JPG (196.87 KiB) Viewed 2429 times

[Cbkimble]

Excellent! This is just a question but what about that border backing the entire sheet, is that doable? I think that would be amazing.

[Mike Ratledge]

As my nephew would say *that's sick, man!"...

[charlie81dbz]

Instead of "Veneral Diseases" I think I'll have the half moon from HMPC logo. Fits the night Venice better...

I really like the moons much better (and glad I wasn't the only one who thought the 'VD' might bring something icky to mind, lol)

I wish the funding was going along better though, this should have easily been 20k+ by now...

charlie

[Lotrek]

Excellent! This is just a question but what about that border backing the entire sheet, is that doable? I think that would be amazing.

Yes, it is doable and it is exactly my intention. I have to verify it with EPCC but judging from Zenith's uncut, I won't have a problem.

[Cbkimble]

Excellent! This is just a question but what about that border backing the entire sheet, is that doable? I think that would be amazing.

Yes, it is doable and it is exactly my intention. I have to verify it with EPCC but judging from Zenith's uncut, I won't have a problem.

Good deal. That's gonna make it look even better.

[Lotrek]

Look what happens when you're not careful in Venice...

KoD lo.JPG (204.05 KiB) Viewed 2607 times

[Eoghann]

Uh oh.

[Cbkimble]

Remind me not to visit Venice. Lol.

[volantangel]

Lotrek how about some blood on the blade ? His face looks as if he has already been stabbed !

[montecarlojoe]

Loving the colours - the higher saturation on the dark background really makes them pop!

[Lotrek]

Lotrek how about some blood on the blade ? His face looks as if he has already been stabbed !

Hmm, too creepy I think. In fact he hasn't been stabbed yet. He's more anxious, surprised and scared. When his face will be revealed it will be more obvious.
Btw, regarding your comment about the masks: What do you mean "larger and pushed backwards"? Behind the swirls?

[Lotrek]

Loving the colours - the higher saturation on the dark background really makes them pop!

Glad to hear (read) that! I'm trying to make the deck dark but not black. It may require some more adjustments but my goal is to have the figures poping out from the darkness.

[Eoghann]

I'll tend to agree that I find the uncertainty better than the "confirmed kill". But that's not to say that a gaff could tell the ending to that story. Because Lotrek does more than illustrate cool courts, he creates characters with a lot of personality.

Lotrek: this is just an idea, I'm not bossing you around or anything.

I was thinking that the masks are starting to look quite similar. Just covering the eyes and with a large nose. And perhaps a change in the design, or the color might make it more interesting. Maybe he could be wearing a mask that reflects the current emotion?

Like the bawling theater mask:



Unless the men will be wearing that style and the women will have a full face mask?

[Lotrek]

I'll tend to agree that I find the uncertainty better than the "confirmed kill". But that's not to say that a gaff could tell the ending to that story. Because Lotrek does more than illustrate cool courts, he creates characters with a lot of personality.

Lotrek: this is just an idea, I'm not bossing you around or anything.

I was thinking that the masks are starting to look quite similar. Just covering the eyes and with a large nose. And perhaps a change in the design, or the color might make it more interesting. Maybe he could be wearing a mask that reflects the current emotion?

Like the bawling theater mask:



Unless the men will be wearing that style and the women will have a full face mask?

I'm aware of the problem with the masks. The thing is that I like big noses!
But seriously, the characters will have different masks, taken from the Venetian Carnival tradition. But for this one, I cannot use the masks you suggest, since we see the KoD profile and I needed a mask with a characteristic shape. To see the expression on these masks we need the character to be looking at us.