Lee McKenzie: Empire "Bloodlines" edition

[Slavich]

Congrats Lee on the amazing campaign. Flawlessly executed! If only Christmas could come early

[Mike Ratledge]

Amazingly well-run campaign with a spectacular finish, Lee! Congrats, again.

[Verloren]

Was just checking in on this campaign and I noticed 1 S1 EB Warrior + deck pledge available. If anyone was looking for one, thought I'd mention it.

That probably was me.

[JSELS]

Congratulations Lee! Looking forward to Christmas

[chadmcmillan]

Next to Jackson's campaigns, this was the highest I've pledged for any playing card series and could not be more excited to get these in hand in a few months. Outstanding job! The black decks are gonna look sweet!! #cardporn

[vasta41]

Hey guys!

There's only a few hours to go on the Kickstarter! Such a great feeling to know that people like your work that much. Completely humbling. Thanks for adding to the conversation here!

Been reading a lot of your comments about the Bloodlines, thanks for letting it all out.

Just to reference a few peoples comments about the $20 Limited Edition ($18.50 USD)...Did anyone catch Pauls/Encardeds beautiful Zenith release? Or Kings Wild Sherlocks/Fed52/? Or any good looking limited edition these days?

$20 AUD for a Limited deck is the among the cheaper end of the scales if you look around at some of the more higher end art out there among us. Of course price is always subjective and relevant to many many personal factors. Also, thats $20 in Australian, so that equals $18.50 USD.

Pricing is a delicate matter and not one I take lightly. I'm not greedy. I work hard doing what I love. If people knew how much was in my bank account for the last 6 months, you'd see how far I'm willing to go to try and do what I love for a living lol!

As many of you have already seen, the original Empires have sold from $30 to over $80 a piece on ebay and yet they were available on the Kickstarter for around $12. Thats a big difference. I'm not saying I should sell those decks for $80 each, but when the creator of a product only makes a fraction of what the decks actually worth out there, no-one notices. And (maybe not) rightly so, as collectors we have the tendancy to see how much we can get for how little, to make our collection better. But now being on the other side of that is a little different, I've had barely anything to live on since that Kickstarter. Actually, If I were to sell the rest of the Empire decks on ebay at $30 a pop, I'd make more than I did with the entire Kickstarter, which is utter madness. People make more money selling their Empire decks than I'll ever see.

I haven't done that because I'm trying to do the right thing, laying a foundation for Kings & Crooks, a place where I can pour my passion and make a living long term. I'm not there yet, but I keep going. Charging people silly money is not the way to do that, which is why I feel the prices are completely justified. Having an average, increasing backer average pledge of $90 seems to show that the majority happily agree, which is fantastic.

Charging silly money for decks is only silly after it reaches a certain point in my view, but again thats just my personal view, distorted by many other factors like everyone else. Someone else view of silly may be $100, someone else, $300, or even $15. Publicly people see the Kickstarter funds and presume the creator now has a *hit load of cash to play with and it couldn't be further from the truth, especially if the creator is trying to lay the foundations for a future with it. Unless you reach the ranks of 150,000 and over, with not much production costs, then there may be a little more 'play' money involved.

The comment about people switching pledges around rather than upping them is true for some, but only partially true from the actual metrics. As mentioned above, the analytics show that over time, the average backer has increased their pledge from around $50 to well over $90, which is astonishing to me. An average of $90 per backer shows that even though there are a a lot of people who will shuffle their pledges to make the best value, which is completely understandable, the majority of backers have simply increased their pledges. To me that shows a real personal trust which I feel I have worked hard to earn and I'm very grateful for.

I hope I've addressed a few of the concerns or points raised here, or at least shared my point of view. And for everyone who's had nothing but positive things to say, I say thank so you very much.

Hope you guys will be watching when the project finally ends in a few hours. The pulsing vein in my deck is a clear indication that thsi isn't over, yet.

Thanks for all of your support here at UC!

Talk soon guys!

I know this might more or less be a moot point but I want to make it anyway. On the previous page I said, "This $20 price point is a KILLER! Too much IMO.. good for Lee trying to make a buck but I won't support it. No matter how amazing they look." I was not at all being sarcastic when I said good for you- I mean that! You, Jackson and other artists do fantastic work and if I were in your shoes I can only imagine how uncomfortable I'd feel watching my decks sell for waaay more than I charged. But you didn't sell them for the prices they were going for on ebay. You didn't say you were trying to make a lesser priced "staple" deck. You made the deck you wanted to make and charged what you wanted to charge. I think the price is too high but I'm sure plenty of other people don't agree. Why should you be a "starving artist" while wholesalers cash in? I think you definitely went about this the right way not that my opinion means anything. Just thought I'd clarify my previous post.

I can't wait til these are in my hands!!

[leemckenzie]

@Slavic - Many thanks! Flawlessly is a spectacular compliment, I appreciate that alot!

@Mike - You too, it's fantastic to hear exactly how you thought I ran the campaign, and I'm so relieved you thought I did a good job. Awesome Mike!

@Verlorn - there ended up being around 3 of the S1 levels available at the end....it all ended without anyone realising (except for your sharp eyes

@JSELS - Thank you, me to I assure you!

@Chad - What an honor!! That's some serious support Chad, thank you so much!

@vasta41 - I completely understand man, thanks a lot for jumping on and clarifying! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I absolutely respect that and thank you for being honest. I never thought for a second it was sarcasm, not at all. I just wanted to express my personal point of view and join the conversation, but I did ramble on quite a bit haha, I do that sometimes. Being misunderstood bothers me more than it should, so I do my best to try and explain so I can be comfortable that I did my best to put across my sincere thoughts. It's easy to just get a slice of someones point of view and run wild with misinterpretation so sometimes I go overboard with explanation to avoid that happening (like I'm doing now for example hahaha!) I can't wait to get a hold of 'em too! Thanks so much for your understanding vasta, much appreciated.

I really need some sleep after this project now, my body and mind are starting to hate me!

[vasta41]

It's easy to just get a slice of someones point of view and run wild with misinterpretation

Oh, so you've been to UC.com before?

[vasta41]

Well, I did it- I broke down and got the black and gold one even though I said I wouldn't. Looking at it as an add-on in the backerit just made me realize it'll be my last opertunity to own it at this price (even though it's a high price, it'll only get higher...). And it's just too damn pretty.

[Eoghann]

Well, I did it- I broke down and got the black and gold one even though I said I wouldn't. Looking at it as an add-on in the backerit just made me realize it'll be my last opertunity to own it at this price (even though it's a high price, it'll only get higher...). And it's just too damn pretty.

Same reasoning I had with The Hive deck. If you like em, go for it! They're only gonna get more expensive later on.

[jerichoholic]

Great, so those of us who were nice enough to get the limited decks are now going to have to wait until March to get them since they are still being produced meanwhile everyone else will be getting their decks right away, real nice.

I hope that creators will stop using 2 printers for 1 card project.

[Bikefanatic]

I have to wait on the warrior case and limited deck but as long as they're done in great quality, should be worth the wait.

[volantangel]

Great, so those of us who were nice enough to get the limited decks are now going to have to wait until March to get them since they are still being produced meanwhile everyone else will be getting their decks right away, real nice.

I hope that creators will stop using 2 printers for 1 card project.

Well, if lee went to fully epcc, we would ALL be waiting for the decks, would that make you feel better ?

[Marcus]

With every new add-on YOU as a backer pledge for, you are adding more risk to your particular package getting delayed. That's how it works. It's not like Lee is sitting on them and just don't ship out - he's as anxious to get these as we are. The delivery date is always an estimation and nothing more, and you have to make your own decisions about this.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

With every new add-on YOU as a backer pledge for, you are adding more risk to your particular package getting delayed. That's how it works. It's not like Lee is sitting on them and just don't ship out - he's as anxious to get these as we are. The delivery date is always an estimation and nothing more, and you have to make your own decisions about this.

+1

There's nothing Lee can do about this and at least he is keeping us in the loop, unlike other creators :::cough::: Alien Ink :::cough::: I don't mind waiting for quality from a great artist.

[jerichoholic]

Great, so those of us who were nice enough to get the limited decks are now going to have to wait until March to get them since they are still being produced meanwhile everyone else will be getting their decks right away, real nice.

I hope that creators will stop using 2 printers for 1 card project.

Well, if lee went to fully epcc, we would ALL be waiting for the decks, would that make you feel better ?

I understand it's out of his control but if he had printed everything through one company instead of two then everyone would get stuff around the same time, instead of people waiting another month or so because of the limited decks. This isn't the only project having this problem. I'm having the same problem with the Golden Spike cards! It's frustrating to see decks for sale at different card shops and yet you haven't gotten yours.

[Cbkimble]

I understand it's out of his control but if he had printed everything through one company instead of two then everyone would get stuff around the same time, instead of people waiting another month or so because of the limited decks. This isn't the only project having this problem. I'm having the same problem with the Golden Spike cards! It's frustrating to see decks for sale at different card shops and yet you haven't gotten yours.

You remind me of my nephew playing baseball(at 7 years old). He always wanted to be the one to get the ball first when it was hit, no matter where it went, and when he didn't, he threw a tantrum and cried.

If you really want your decks that bad, NOW, contact Lee and Jody and ask how much it'll cost to go ahead and ship what can be shipped or have them ship what's ready and pay shipping on the LEs.

[Fes]

That whole bit there... It cracked me up haha.

[jerichoholic]

I understand it's out of his control but if he had printed everything through one company instead of two then everyone would get stuff around the same time, instead of people waiting another month or so because of the limited decks. This isn't the only project having this problem. I'm having the same problem with the Golden Spike cards! It's frustrating to see decks for sale at different card shops and yet you haven't gotten yours.

You remind me of my nephew playing baseball(at 7 years old). He always wanted to be the one to get the ball first when it was hit, no matter where it went, and when he didn't, he threw a tantrum and cried.

If you really want your decks that bad, NOW, contact Lee and Jody and ask how much it'll cost to go ahead and ship what can be shipped or have them ship what's ready and pay shipping on the LEs.

Nobody is throwing a tantrum. Just getting frustrated with a lot of the Kickstarters and their delays. It's long been established that creators could be doing things to make the process a lot smoother but that still doesn't seem to be happening. For instance having art done and approved by the end of the project, using 1 printer instead of 2, etc. There shouldn't be delays period.

[Sher]

Victor, even the best laid plans can come across problems in the execution stage. Who would have predicted that there would be a labor strike in California that would affect the timely delivery of decks (and other goods)? It's only afterwards that one printer seems better than two, but that's not even a real solution, since Kai pointed out that if EPCC was chosen as the sole printer, there would still be delays. No one ever really had anything against using two printers. This wasn't something that would regularly cause delay. It was actually thought in the beginning that EPCC has a quicker turnaround than USPCC.

[Mike Ratledge]

Well, it's because they originally DID have a quicker turn-around. Then they took on +50% more production and - poof - we have both of the largest scale manufacturers of playing card decks slowing down basically all custom decks, period (unless you print using MPC in digital [HP Indigo] format and quality). The problem is that if too many projects start using MPC it becomes all three of them. USPCC increasing prizes significantly is saying "we don't need the business" and Expert&Legends not boosting their ability to produce decks by 25-30% sounds like the same thing - whether you are "in the loop" or not.

[Bikefanatic]

Why would any one worry about a delay when you already have hundreds of decks already!? When some people been waiting for something and they finally get it, they forgot about it or pay it no mind since they now have it then worry other decks that are soon coming out. I play with my decks so I take my time to enjoy them before future releases. If you do that, that's when decks you forgot about start showing up.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

Not to mention that custom decks (And tucks) with all of the features we hold in such high regard, such as foiling, embossing etc are nothing more than an idea. Each project starts from square one. Until they are printed, no one, even the printers, know what will work and what wont. The whole thing is an experiment. If anyone comes up with a way to make the process flawless from Photoshop to printed deck they'll make a fortune.

Whining about artists/designers with proven track records of delivery when they run into unforeseen delays is childish. It's art, not fast food. Anything worth having is worth waiting for. Sometimes I wonder what kind of comments Da Vinci and Picasso would have gotten on KS.

[SBurk49]

Why would any one worry about a delay when you already have hundreds of decks already!? When some people been waiting for something and they finally get it, they forgot about it or pay it no mind since they now have it then worry other decks that are soon coming out. I play with my decks so I take my time to enjoy them before future releases. If you do that, that's when decks you forgot about start showing up.

I've been telling myself I need to do this. I think I might.

[badpete69]

Finally after a long 5 years wait, the warrior is shipping today and the KS will be finally complete. Lee thanks for sticking with it and finally coming up with a beautiful product. I cannot wait to have it in hands

[MagikFingerz]

That ain't no cloth bag, that's for sure!

[theCapraAegagrus]

That ain't no cloth bag, that's for sure!

Sick burn.

It looks like it might've been worth the wait...

[Bikefanatic]

The Warrior was worth the wait! A deck fits snugly, easy to push in and pull out. I'm sure someone will bless y'all with pics. It came in a black case with a lion face on it. It is heavy. Great work Lee.

[badpete69]

Came in today. Now I can go check mark that project on the list

[chicken_ql]

That actually looks insane :O. How much was that?