Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher"!

[ecNate]

Oh, and Sunday is still the 24th. I put the W the We are Closed up just so people wouldn't try to pledge with no reward tiers. Why would anyone pledge for a campaign with no rewards?

Well, as I copied and pasted above it you incorrectly had it wrong as listing BOTH 23rd and 24th, but you seem to imply I'm the idiot. I see you have now corrected that so perhaps you later realized the error and fixed it after posting here.

The Good deck clearly has rewards, but is NOT clearly listed as being a test project. The problem is not with the We Are Closed project, but the Good deck. I said both of the projects listed under browse has errors and provided links, use them. The second one is for Good deck, it should specify it's not live.


You try and help somebody out....


Look again, I wasn't complaining, just trying to help test for you and provided specific feedback.

2 problems with the 2 'projects' listed:

The first one contradicts itself, are you reopening on the 23rd or 24th? This is from the browse page as the project itself doesn't seem to show this issue.

WE ARE CLOSED - ANTICIPATED OPENING SUNDAY (August 24th) @ 3EDT
For now we are closed, and we anticipate that we will be reopening on Sunday, the 23rd at 3PM EDT / NYC time - subject to change. Watch your inbox for a MailChimp announcement with more details.

I wasn't clear at first if you really were still 'closed' seeing this listed as available and nothing to indicate it's a TEST project. When I went to pledge it failed again, which if it's a test project that's fine, but anybody with the link or not paying attention browsing will not be pleased and may not return. Change the title and images to make it clear it's for TEST.
https://www.cardlauncher.com/en/projects/8043-Good-Deck

[Eoghann]

We can offer advice, we can offer suggestions, we can call them all kinds of names, we can talk until the cows come home. But that doesn't change the fact that no matter what we say and scream and complain and do, Dan and Dave's stuff is selling, Ellusionist decks are still selling, half of T11s stock is sold out, Jackson's overpriced stuff is still selling. Some aren't flying off the shelves but slow and steady they're going. I'm not saying that won't eventually change and they'll be forced to reevaluate their business models, and I'm really hoping it does.

In the grand scheme of things, our opinions are insignificant. Sure we might score a tiny victory once in a while. But this tiny little war we wage amongst ourselves means nothing to the big guys making the big bucks. We're just a loud, obnoxious blip in the radar. Only a select few actually listen to us, and yet we make the mistake of feeling entitled to demand things from everyone.

Quoting someone here: "Mike's "heartfelt" apology"....I suppose those quotations just stumbled in there and aren't meant to be interpreted as sarcasm, huh? Or as an indicator that his apology wasn't enough? I might not have meant you exactly, but the sentiment was there that a little groveling was needed.

And no, I don't think apologies are beneath me. I've offered plenty before. But I'm also of the idea that actions speak far louder than words. The way I saw it, he issued a statement expressing that indeed everything was messed up beyond expectation and was working hard to get it up and running. And that was fine by me.

My feelings didn't get hurt because Mike didn't issue a sincere apology. At the end of the day all I care about is getting some goddamn cards. No one cares if the man has barely slept in weeks, or that he slipped a disc. Do you? No one cares about anybody's personal issues and that's the sad, depressing truth of it. We're all as uncaring and selfish as the next guy. You want that apology because you were inconvenienced. That a man stayed up at ungodly hours of the morning to do right by us means nothing because he didn't say he was sorry. Why should he be any different? Because he's a business? How many times has McDonalds apologized for kids with diabetes before they've reached puberty?

How many apologies has Jackson given out to anyone? Yet I'm sure you'll be there when the Baseball decks launch. The military decks are an insane gold mine. And after bitching about Jackson there we will all be. The most professional thing he did was to ignore us and just rake in the money. Why should he come back? So we can berate him? He already has our money...our opinions won't put gas in his tank.

[snsdmonkey]

No one cares if the man has barely slept in weeks, or that he slipped a disc. Do you? No one cares about anybody's personal issues and that's the sad, depressing truth of it. We're all as uncaring and selfish as the next guy. You want that apology because you were inconvenienced. That a man stayed up at ungodly hours of the morning to do right by us means nothing because he didn't say he was sorry. Why should he be any different? Because he's a business? How many times has McDonalds apologized for kids with diabetes before they've reached puberty?

Yes, because he is a business. Do right by us? If he wanted to do right by us he wouldn't have rushed the launch and done things properly. Uncaring and selfish? Is everyone here uncaring when I've seen many, many suggestions being made by users. Are we selfish, when we are promised a working site with many people wasting their time on something that doesn't even work properly? Also McDonalds is a choice, it's like asking Mike to apologise to people who purchase off CL and then build up a mountain of debt. Your example is totally missing the point.

As I've seen it, I've just heard excuse after excuse from Mike as if to gain our sympathy. Truth is, with all your trash-talking these past months, it's very obvious that the monetary gain from this project is a HUGE factor in your decision to start it up. If it were purely for the benefit of the community I'd be more sympathetic. If this business was set up by anyone other than the owner of this forum, you can also be sure that no one would give a shit about CL after what has happened in the last week.

[Eoghann]

Bad analogy, I know.

My question is how much does an apology really influence our actions? Had Mike not apologized, would you have still supported the projects on the platform? I'm pretty sure everyone would have cast this incident aside and moved on once everything was running as intended.

Robert Butler apologized a storm and that didn't meant a damn thing to anyone. All everyone wanted was retribution for his scamming and what not. And with good reason. People deserve the stuff they paid for. What I'm getting at as that apologies mean jack shit until there's actions behind them. And I'd take actions over words any day. Did Mike promise a grand opening of the best site to ever hit the face of this earth? Yup. And it was a bust. He admitted to that and said he was working on it. Why isn't that enough?

Same with Jackson. Apologies won't mean anything until he starts pricing his decks to something everyone can agree on. And that's probably not gonna happen until (or if ever) he prices his decks up so high no one wants em.

[sinjin7]

In the grand scheme of things, our opinions are insignificant. Sure we might score a tiny victory once in a while. But this tiny little war we wage amongst ourselves means nothing to the big guys making the big bucks. We're just a loud, obnoxious blip in the radar. Only a select few actually listen to us, and yet we make the mistake of feeling entitled to demand things from everyone.

My feelings didn't get hurt because Mike didn't issue a sincere apology. At the end of the day all I care about is getting some goddamn cards. No one cares if the man has barely slept in weeks, or that he slipped a disc. Do you? No one cares about anybody's personal issues and that's the sad, depressing truth of it. We're all as uncaring and selfish as the next guy. You want that apology because you were inconvenienced. That a man stayed up at ungodly hours of the morning to do right by us means nothing because he didn't say he was sorry. Why should he be any different? Because he's a business? How many times has McDonalds apologized for kids with diabetes before they've reached puberty?

How many apologies has Jackson given out to anyone? Yet I'm sure you'll be there when the Baseball decks launch. The military decks are an insane gold mine. And after bitching about Jackson there we will all be. The most professional thing he did was to ignore us and just rake in the money. Why should he come back? So we can berate him? He already has our money...our opinions won't put gas in his tank.

If you don't think you matter and are insignificant, then just continue to stay silent and keep getting taken advantage of. I choose to voice my opinion in a forum that I feel matters and has an impact in the card community. It has since the days of Decknique and will continue to do so long after you and Mike are gone. What you undoubtedly view as petty bitching and whining has brought about changes, and will continue to do so. T11 has toned down their blatant hype and have started to use custom courts instead of re-colored standard courts. E retracted their despicable exploitation of Jamie Grant's injuries in their marketing of their AIP bottles, and even the high and mighty D$D tried to offer an olive branch to UC through back channels. I noticed Jack$on isn't trying to sell the Civil War Limited decks at $22.00 per deck shipped. And as I previously mentioned, Randy Butterfield is parting in the opposite direction of Jack$son with his marketing and pricing of his Draconian deck. With your attitude, the only thing that is certain is there will be NO change. At least I make the effort for the benefit of the community.

You and others may feel my night job is to be UC's entitled whining bitch, but my real day job is to be an attorney, and I'm married to a physician. I'm not trying to sound like a pompous jerk, but I could afford any deck out there if I really wanted it. I don't protest ridiculous pricing of playing cards because I can't afford them, I do so because I feel its not right. I remember the days of being a poor law student and not being able to enjoy some of the smaller pleasures in life because money was tight. I believe there may be many here that are in that position I used to be in. So I'll use this forum for people like that, and I hope others here have that belief in the influence of UC as well.

Let's set aside businesses and professionalism for a moment. Let's talk about being a basic, proper human being. If someone screws up, and a whole lot of people were negatively affected by that screw up, the fundamentally decent to do is at least apologize, for God's sake. It is indisputable that Mike screwed up. He failed to apologize to his core group of supporters here on UC directly. Is it really such an unreasonable, onerous to request that he do something so basic and decent and right?

And don't believe for a second the sole reason Mike lost sleep and stayed up till the wee hours of the morning was to do right by us. No one is that naïve. He was busting his ass to make money and save his crumbling reputation. And I'm not even saying there's anything wrong with him doing that. But while he was trying everything in his power to salvage the launch, he absolutely could've taken just 5 minutes to pop in and issued an apology for keeping us up and stringing us along as well. His hubris prevented him from doing so, and he only finally did issue an apology after many people called him out on it.

I've long since stopped buying products from D$D. I've already stated on another thread I'm getting Jack$on fatigue. I did not buy any Hive decks. I'm not buying any of his 3000 "limited" Civil War decks. I'm not buying any of his military decks. I love baseball, but I will not buy his Baseball deck when it comes out. So don't group me in with all the rest of his mindless fanboys. I always said Jack$on is a talented guy, but he certainly treated UC poorly, and as a result I'll vote with my wallet and cease to support him.

I honestly can't figure out why you short-change and marginalize UC and our influence. Why are you a mod here if we're all so insignificant and our opinions don't matter?

[montecarlojoe]

You matter to us Sinjin;)

No doubt as an entity UC is respected and collectively opinion is important. But individual dissenting voices are not.
If you choose to embargo KWF Jackson will say "Fine, I don't need you"
If the entire community (UC) did the same that would cause Jackson to take pause.
You are BOTH right in that sense.

(Though it should be noted that all of your examples are about business ethics. The complaint with CL is largely about technical issues with a very specific PR niggle. Apples and Oranges really - Eoghann's pont stands in that once - if - CL is fixed and delivers on its promises everyone here will pledge for the decks they like, because at the end of the day nobody here is petty enough to punish the artists for technical issues or a PR faux pas that wasn't theirs.)

It is so hard to infer tone and intent through text. You are right that you do often seem negative; "UC's entitled whining bitch" (hehe) - but I have no doub't that's not your intent.
I expect I come across as a soft lefty sometimes because my instinct is to find the middle ground or play devil's advocate. But I don't want to rub people up the wrong way.
Mods in general may seem to quick to protect Mike - but that's more about keeping the peace on teh forums (or trying to). behind the scenes we are probably more critical than anyone!
And Mike tends to be verbose, tangential and focusses on the whats, whens, hows, and whys WAY before any trees are hugged.

We know ourselves and we are familiar with each others' behoviours and styles and we tolerate them - it's important to understand that under a bit of stress you tend to conform rigidly to type, but under a lot of stress you will have outbursts that are opposite to your normal nature.
With this in mind I personally feel that Mikes response is exactly what I expected. And in hindsight it was pretty timely and told us what we needed to know, and attempts are being made at reparations.

Frankly if Mike's response had been touchy feely I'd have been worried about him!

[Eoghann]

Because our opinions will continue to be worthless drivel as long as we don't strive to add something useful to them and turn them into advice. While some valuable observations are often made, the majority of the time we employ our efforts in knocking everything down as if our opinion is the only thing that mattered.

There's a reason we have been labeled as "the rowdy bunch" and not some other adjective like "helpful or insightful". While it's true that we can offer rich advice to anyone looking for it, we also make the mistake of thinking that our opinion is law and if they don't listen to it they're bound to fail. And almost instantly we turn on them for not listening to us. While as a community we can be very helpful and insightful, it's our approach that makes everything completely worthless.

Tell me any instance where calling someone a greedy, money grubbing, thieving, untalented jerk has brought about anything other than them just clamming up, jumping ship and going to PCF instead or abandoning the boards altogether. I'm not a member of PCF but from my casual visits through there, they tend to just go with the flow and let things happen. But if I were an artist trying to get something done, who would I pick? The opinionated, abusive forum or the one that doesn't care what goes on and just gives them a pat on the back and sends them on their way? I might be oversimplifying it but there's a reason Jackson, Paul and even Randy post there more than here.

While you, Jay and everyone that has ever stood up for something here have always had valuable insight into making something better out of something...it's the approach that's severely lacking and renders the whole argument worthless. Joe makes a good point that it's probably unintentional but you do come off as a very angry person and I suppose you don't mean to be. The the italic fonts and blood red letters don't help the case . There are some brave or crazy enough to cut through our crap and see the value in our words. I've said that we're nothing but a blip in the radar. But we have the opportunity to be so much more than that.

I'm not saying to not have an opinion. Not at all. I'm saying to make it meaningful. And I'm sorry. I didn't mean to generalize and say our opinions didn't matter. That wasn't right. But there are much better ways to go about expressing them and making them actually worthwhile. Angry words more than often just fall on deaf ears.

[Eoghann]

Joe beat me to it. I always take too long to compose a message . He's better at talking than I am. But yeah...there you have it.

[Aussie888]

As an 'international backer' I do not mind too much when the next attempt to launch is, I would suggest less of your current batch of Mormons (is that code?) do the programming for you because they do not seem very good at it and do it at the start of the week, you then have a full weeks support if it goes spectacularly wrong (again) unlike a Saturday where you will have two days of, well this.

While I agree, and no - it's not code, Mormons are what many people call "Seventh Day Adventists" that worship on Saturdays.

Not relevant to the topic on hand, but I'll point out that Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists are different. Mormon is the colloquial name for members of the latter day saint movement (more commonly the largest branch which is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They most definitely worship on Sundays (not Saturdays)).
Seventh Day Adventists are based on the millerite movement, and do worship on Saturdays.

Back on topic...
If it's a US company printing the cards, then international backers are always going to get stiffed on postage. As an Aussie, unless someone decides to use queen slipper for their printer then pretty much any deck will stiff us on postage. For that we can thank the pacific ocean. Even Aussie projects use US printers, so although we pay in AUD, we still get hit with the outside of US shipping costs. Can this be helped? Well, either we pay for shipping, or pay extra for the cards. Either way we pay. About the only way I'd get cards cheaply is if USPCC relocated to Hong Kong. They manage to ship things for stupidly cheap prices.
If it's a US person running the project, then it's going to be based on their local time. Again, many people outside of the Americas are going to get done over.
These things can't be helped. Sure it kinda sucks that I'm probably never going to get one of the $1/$2/$3 early bird pledges, but that's my problem not the deck creators' or the platform's.

I'd much rather a quick one sentence apology and, as seems to be the case here, see work being put into resolving the issue, than seeing a book chapter saying what went wrong and how sorry they are, but not actually seeing any steps to resolve it. When something goes wrong at a McDonalds restaurant and they need to close you don't see the boss taking out large adverts explaining that despite testing certain functions broke after a POS update. You get a "cash only. sorry for the inconvenience" sign printed on a bit of printer paper and stuck to the counter and door. And really, what's heartfelt to some may not be to others.

In regards to this driving people away from card launcher... You can't just walk into a restaurant that only sells seafood and try and get a hamburger. People will go to where the cards are. When the issues with card launcher are resolved, if deck creators decide that CL is the best platform to launch their product, then if people want it, they will have to go to CL, the same applies for kickstarter, indiegogo, or even just a standard storefront. Personally, I'm looking forward to not having to filter out stuff from kickstarted to get actual playing cards.

In regards to the seafood choices, I don't think I've eaten flounder before. I did watch the little mermaid once though.

[Strag]

I tend to agree that it sometimes comes across as too negative and I'm probably one of the first and loudest to criticise BUT...

I have offered advice over and over... based on extensive experience. Yes it's frustrating that it's been ignored but then something like this failed launch happens and... well I don't want to say "I told you so" because I really and truly desperately wanted this to work. I just felt all along it was too ambitious, that is was being rushed and that the hyper was running away out of control.

I too noticed the lack of apology and almost posted something before Sinjin did but decided not to because, well that's just Mike and he's not going to change who he is at this point. Same thing with CL, Mike's going to continue to run it his way, going to continue to derail threads to promote his side-businesses, going to continue to run down other projects and competing sites without realizing what a disservice he is doing to his own cause.

So now I've decided I'm going to stand back, watch and wait. When CL comes back live I'm going to cancel my outstanding pledge(s) (no idea if I have just one or more than one as it's hard to say what went through) and wait and see. I am going to keep my fingers crossed that CL will succeed because I do think that it's a needed site in the industry. I'm going to hope that Mike mends fences with D&D and Jackson and brings them into the fold, because I think it will benefit all concerned.

I'm not going to hold my breath that Mike is going to change... I think he's going to continue with his Ready, Fire, Aim! approach. He's going to continue to be so long-winded that his points get lost. He's going to continue to have all the best intentions in the world, and still want to make a buck (which I think is an admirable position). If he or any of the owners are listening, here is what I would recommend;

1. STOP the hype! It's not doing any good and instead it's causing the site to lose goodwill. Don't say you're going to release the best thing since canned beer and instead put out a bottle of still water that leaks. When it's fully ready, THEN announce it, without rediculous teases.

2. Get some real testers and have a proper QA person create a test plan. The ad hoc way of doing things just doesn't work. For example, Mike said that they never tested being anonymous because "why would anyone be anonymous as part of a test"! Well that's what a good QA plan does... it tests ALL permutations whether they makes sense or not. And yes, I used to be a QA Engineer.

3. Stop with the arbitarary launch dates. Do your testing and once it's ready THEN decide on a launch date. You can have an internal date but don't publish anything until you are ready.

4. Get someone to proof Mike's emails and posts before they go out. This really really needs to happen. Good communication is key and the "folksy" tell-all kind of style that Mike has just doesn't work as part of running a professtional business. Just like all those rediculous amount of registered trademark symbols... they just are useless if no one can read the actual copy! I mean really, did I need to know the programmers are Mormon? WTF? That statement about not catering to Internationals? Just really didn't need to be said!

5. Support CL here in addition to Deck Refinery. Yes I know the support forum is there and that makes sense BUT all of the questions are popping up here and on FB. Closing down the Dark Venexiana thread was a big mistake. Don't censor.. there was valuable conversation going on there. Yes, UC and CL should be separated IN A COMMERCIAL WAY. That doesn't mean CL should not be mentioned on here and of course people are going to talk about all there issues.

In any case, I will try to be more proactive and helpful and not take too close to heart any perceived insults. I know what it's like to work so hard on something and not have it turn out the way you like or want. There are some smart and talented people involved and I wish you all the best!

[Eoghann]

My intention with locking the Dark Venexiana thread wasn't to censor at all. It's to reroute the conversation back to the intended thread. Found it easier to temporarily lock it instead of slapping people on the wrist and reminding them to stay on topic, I should know how wildly we like to go off on tangents. I will unlock it immediately after the project launches again so we can all talk about the deck and not other unrelated issues.

[Strag]

My intention with locking the Dark Venexiana thread wasn't to censor at all. It's to reroute the conversation back to the intended thread. Found it easier to temporarily lock it instead of slapping people on the wrist and reminding them to stay on topic, I should know how wildly we like to go off on tangents. I will unlock it immediately after the project launches again so we can all talk about the deck and not other unrelated issues.

I knew what your intention was (and honestly it should happen to a LOT more threads) but closing it does take away from the ability to talk about the deck. Better off taking out the off-topic stuff and moving it to this thread instead, although I do know what a gigantic pain that is to do and could easily muddle this thread. No easy solution.

[Mike Ratledge]

Thank you all for your valuable input and insights.

TL;DR executive summary: I'm tired, almost sick and trying to fix it even in the pain. Next message.

I have apologized, as sincerely as I can be, as disappointed as I was and as bad as I felt I still understand that everybody (including myself) is quite disappointed.

Mormons, "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints", correct - I was a little stressed when I went to post my message.

I already said the *proposed* schedule might slip, and it *will* if things aren't just right - no perfect. I will accept nothing less at this point. Using one of our favorite analogies - sports: if you have two strikes, you can still hit a home run. Three strikes and you're out. By using that analogy I'm not saying if their are problems I'm taking my catcher's mitt and ball and going home, quite the contrary, I will (again) redouble my effort to make sure it's not a problem, even if there is a little problem this time I am going to be terribly disappointed because I have hyped the heck out of the "best thing since sliced bread" and it fell on its sword. The first time due to a very stupid problem that if programming were correct could not possibly have happened. How the heck can anyone set things up where "Minimum $2, Maximum $1" and the program not catch that? Go figure?

I'm going ahead and pushing things back to Wednesday at this point. It's going to be beaten to death by me personally in production mode before I invite anyone else to help. I don't know why it looks like that project is running, but I can't change that. Fortunately for me certain things I can't touch in the production environment. It would be one hell of a note if I went and reset a project by mistake while it was running - and fortunately that's one thing only the support people can do. I can't willy-nilly do some things that I know will help, I am dependent upon the vendor, as all people including just about everybody on the Internet except perhaps some of the biggest heavy hitters like Facebook, PayPal, etc

Am I bashing Jackson, D&D or anyone else? I might have in my misery yesterday, but I think I have taken my own licks enough to know that's not productive. I get many people's point that I'm just like them now but believe me, this undertaking was not done just to please myself or to line my purse. It was done to make mostly the people here at UC a better place, and in addition I hope to make a better place for the card collecting community as a whole. Can I say I don't hope to make money? That's an absurd statement for anyone to make in the first place. Of course - I do, I have 9 investors from Madison Wisconsin to Singapore, and the Philippines and all points in between that are counting on me not to mess this up any more.

I wanted to make it a better place to crowd fund playing cards. Did I get overzealous and crazy about trademarks in the process? You bet. I'll leave the little symbol off my posts here, technically, so I have been told - and Sinjin7 can fill us all in I'm certain, I have to protect my IP or lose it. Do I misspell things use homonyms the wrong way or make incorrect inferences and references in the heat of battle? Everybody does. Again, it's partly human nature.

Enough said - I tend to drone on as everyone already knows, but I think this pretty much sums it up:

The damned thing isn't going to open again until it is 110% ready. If it's not Sunday at 3PM NYC time, I will be a little perplexed, but certainly NOT disappointed this time, I'll just reset my own expectations to insure that it is done right this time, because it is painfully obvious to me that it needed even more testing, especially since code changes were being pushed out from the code staging server to production on the very last day. That's not happening this time, believe me. It's right, it's solid, or it's going to wait in spite of my zeal to get it open.

I'll go unlock Venexiana Dark. I had no idea it was locked, frankly. People should vent here, but I still attempt to read every single new message. Lately I have not kept up, for obvious reasons. I suppose venting over there is not much different than me derailing conversations elsewhere about CL as I'm prone to do. I'll do my best to stop that as well.

[Strag]

Great post Mike, still wanting you to succeed and glad you are taking some things to heart!

[volantangel]

Amazing what a single post can do eh ? Come on ! Group hug time !

[sinjin7]

This whole tangent of discussion started because Eoghann took issue with us suggesting that Mike issue an apology and felt we were being petty, and a few others chimed in their agreement with him. I took offense to that and am still incredulous about that attitude, but Mike has now apologized a couple of times (good for him) and its a moot point now.

What's not a moot point is the influence of UC in the card community. Things sometimes gets negative here, but that's the nature of public forums sometimes, you get the good with the bad, but at least we're being honest and not being brown-nosing sycophants.
Personally, I distinguish artistic effort from business practices. If a thread is started on a new deck that may be poorly designed, I will rarely comment on the art because it's subjective, and even if we don't like it, it's still the artist's baby and dream, so I try not to pile on. This is where I don't like the negativity that's sometimes found on UC, and it could get vicious at times. We can all benefit with a better showing of civility.

Where I go off on rants is always with business practices only, whether its horrifically over-hyped marketing, or ridiculous pricing. I feel this area is fair game, and this is where we can make the difference. We can't turn an artist lacking in skill or vision into Picasso, but we do have a hand in how the market trends and at affecting business practices. In fact, this is the only part of the playing card industry we can affect, because the only thing we control is our own wallets. Being critical in this area shouldn't drive artists and deck producers away, unless it perhaps hits too close to home because they espouse such despicable business practices. In this area, I'd rather be known as the tough crowd. But this is where Eoghann and I will just have to agree to disagree because we have very different views about the influence of the United Cardists.

Amazing what a single post can do eh ? Come on ! Group hug time !

Its all we wanted from Mike in the first place. Consider us all to have hugged it out.

Did I get overzealous and crazy about trademarks in the process? You bet. I'll leave the little symbol off my posts here, technically, so I have been told - and Sinjin7 can fill us all in I'm certain, I have to protect my IP or lose it.

Once you're trademarked, you're trademarked. There's only a few ways of realistically losing that trademark. The most common way is by abandonment, in other words you stop using the mark for over three years. Some other less common ways to lose your trademark is through improper licensing or if the mark becomes too generic and loses its distinctiveness. Sure, the onus is on you to police your trademarks, but let's be realistic here, no one's going to be stumbling over themselves infringing upon the use of "CardLauncher" or "Deck Refinery". So yes, please leave out the trademark symbols when posting here on UC.

[Mike Ratledge]

Thanks, buddy. One thing I think we all agree about - this place needs to be fun again.

I will do my best, and another apology just went out using MailChimp. I suppose that is a registered trademark as well, but we'll forgo formalities here.

Let's enjoy this folks. I will get my & CL shit together, and when I do, hopefully this all will just be a footnote.

[Gemini]

Just got your latest cardlauncher email, for me the bit that fell flat was the payment element. Is there an option to test purchase items for as an example 1 cent just to test it really works or are there fee's involved with that for us or you?

[Mike Ratledge]

You can always pledge $2. The system works in runs dollars, just like it would in any other currencies - if we used them. I want it to be realistic. Nine of the existing pledges will be lost, and I have seen one or two that "broke", as in got a confirmation from WePay but not CL. I want everything to be working including PayPal, but the bureaucracy there is an amazing thing to behold. Normally getting a human being on the phone takes some doing even for support, but getting someone who approves apps is impossible as far as I can tell.

[ecNate]

Got the email for the request for testing and specific request to "hit it as hard as you can". Nice to see you are taking a step back to test more fully, but I sure hope you had specific test cases that were thought through and a solid defect management process. If not, hopefully this will help augment what testing was done. I really hope it is a success and the next planned launch goes well for all involved.

CRITICAL RELATED QUESTION - the email didn't say where or how to report issues, did you what them on Deck Refinery under bug reports? http://www.deckrefinery.com/tracker.php?c=1

[flyers3003]

Nine of the existing pledges will be lost, and I have seen one or two that "broke", as in got a confirmation from WePay but not CL.

Mike, are you able to identify who's pledges will be lost and have you reached out to them to let them know? Just curious, as I know I'd want to be notified if I was one of them.

FWIW, glad to see you taking a step back and trying to get things right.

[Mike Ratledge]

Nine of the existing pledges will be lost, and I have seen one or two that "broke", as in got a confirmation from WePay but not CL.

Mike, are you able to identify who's pledges will be lost and have you reached out to them to let them know? Just curious, as I know I'd want to be notified if I was one of them.

FWIW, glad to see you taking a step back and trying to get things right.

I have a list of pledges that worked, I can easily public that. I really can't think of any reason not to, frankly. I know of at least two that worked halfway and halfway isn't working. If you got a message from WePay but nothing from CL that said you got "No Reward" then it didn't work completely - basically not at all for all practical purposes. Before I do that, I'll see if we can't push mail to everyone that has a pledge on file with the correct rewards in it. I figure that is the best thing, but I'm not certain it can be done considering the way things work.

[chach]

I believe I'm one of those that received 1 of 2 emails for a Dark Venexiana pledge. However I was able a few mins later to resubmit pledge and it went all the way through and received both confirm emails.

[MagikFingerz]

CRITICAL RELATED QUESTION - the email didn't say where or how to report issues, did you what them on Deck Refinery under bug reports? http://www.deckrefinery.com/tracker.php?c=1

Use DeckRefinery.com for CardLauncher support

[volantangel]

Ok quick update, im not as wordy as mike.

We are conducting a pre-beta test today for the staff, we are going to look at the glaring problems that have plagued the system on day 1.

Once we have done and confirmed that the bugs in the system that we have identified previously are solved, the system will then be opened up to the public beta testers. If a bug is found kindly start a topic at http://deckrefinery.com/viewforum.php?f ... dabae71140. Kindly put the problem in the subject so others would know if a problem has been identified and refrain from posting the same bug again.

A further message be put out again once the beta is open to public for testing

[snsdmonkey]

Ok quick update, im not as wordy as mike.

We are conducting a pre-beta test today for the staff, we are going to look at the glaring problems that have plagued the system on day 1.

Once we have done and confirmed that the bugs in the system that we have identified previously are solved, the system will then be opened up to the public beta testers. If a bug is found kindly start a topic at http://deckrefinery.com/viewforum.php?f ... dabae71140. Kindly put the problem in the subject so others would know if a problem has been identified and refrain from posting the same bug again.

A further message be put out again once the beta is open to public for testing

Thanks for the update! Maybe you should do the emails in the future

[Mike Ratledge]

Ok quick update, im not as wordy as mike.

We are conducting a pre-beta test today for the staff, we are going to look at the glaring problems that have plagued the system on day 1.

Once we have done and confirmed that the bugs in the system that we have identified previously are solved, the system will then be opened up to the public beta testers. If a bug is found kindly start a topic at http://deckrefinery.com/viewforum.php?f ... dabae71140. Kindly put the problem in the subject so others would know if a problem has been identified and refrain from posting the same bug again.

A further message be put out again once the beta is open to public for testing

Thanks for the update! Maybe you should do the emails in the future

Honestly, folks - I am trying to control my verbosity, but I like to talk. Today, we're waiting on the code to be 'pushed' from the code staging server to production around noon and trying to test at 3PM in a reasonably orderly fashion, not trying to beat it to death (yet), but tomorrow we'll enable all the weaponry.

Please check the "** KNOWN ** BUGS : 1 **" topic in the General section of the FAQ to insure that the bug has not already been reported before you add it to the list. There will be ONE project today that is specifically designed to look for certain problems, and all of the tiers are $1, $2, $4, $8 or $16. The actual pre-authorization is real, but every one of the pledges on that "$250,000" goal project will be voided/deleted because it will be cancelled once we have determined where to put the most energy - and do it in an iterative process until we are satisfied that everything is working 110% as I noted before. The only thing I could find last night working for about 4 hours was that the pledges you already made don't show up with the boxes checked, but the message from CL shows them correctly.

[StanKindLee]

Please check the "** KNOWN ** BUGS : 1 **" topic in the General section of the FAQ to insure that the bug has not already been reported before you add it to the list.

Not the tester's responsibility, rather the testing coordinator should be reviewing, compiling, categorizing, and eliminating duplicates of all reported bugs by testers. You will get better and more frequent trouble reports if the ONLY thing the testers have to do is go to ONE webpage and report problems without having to review the input from other testers.

[Mike Ratledge]

Please check the "** KNOWN ** BUGS : 1 **" topic in the General section of the FAQ to insure that the bug has not already been reported before you add it to the list.

Not the tester's responsibility, rather the testing coordinator should be reviewing, compiling, categorizing, and eliminating duplicates of all reported bugs by testers. You will get better and more frequent trouble reports if the ONLY thing the testers have to do is go to ONE webpage and report problems without having to review the input from other testers.

We understand that, it's just a waste of the users' time(s) to keep reporting things over and over if it's already a known issue. We think the code is pretty darned solid at this point, and we know two definite issues at this time: (and they are the only ones that have still not been fixed, but the work is underway and I chose to cut the changes off for testing today rather than risk pushing yet another update from the code staging server into the production server)

1) It doesn't show the rewards on "My Pledges" correctly - both user side and project/campaign side - both related. It _DOES_ send the correct information in the verification message about which tiers you selected. Existing pledgers _should_ have the reward tier(s) checked.

2) Under certain conditions, for example if you refresh the screen or back up a page and move forward again, the S&H is added to/up incorrectly again.

3) The "Cancel Pledge" bug is back yet again - fourth time. Thanks for the report. Interestingly it works on the code staging server, but not production.

COSMETIC ISSUE: "Self Fulfillment" shows up even if "Guaranteed Rewards Delivery" does - it will be fixed, but it doesn't affect anything.

Language problems: if you can test French, Spanish, German or Chinese languages, please report where you see things that either aren't right or could be more accurate. These are not bugs, because you don't have to use them, but we want them fixed.

[Mike Ratledge]

OK, with those 3 known bug being worked on this afternoon and hopefully fixed by tomorrow morning, I turned "Coming Soon" mode back off, and anyone can beta test, even if you were not previously registered now. Of those problems shown above, none are really game killers, although #3 certainly is aggravating since it has been chased down and squashed three times before, already. Please continue to whack on that test project. Once we have one more code change in place, some time tomorrow (hopefully), I will open several decks instead of that one test project and we can continue to beat on it until it is smooth as a baby's behind.

All in all, it looks very good and promising for the proposed Sunday opening at 3PM EDT/NYC time.