Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher"!

[CBJ]

Wonder how that crow tastes. Lmao.

+1

[Eoghann]

Thanks for the update Sher. So it's definitely noon as of right now? I'd love to stick around but I need to get up in 4 hours.

[SpecialK]

Can you or someone address some questions when possible? Why $4 for some projects but $12 for another? Why no scale? Why address up front for some but not others? 48 hour no cancellation policy?

[Sher]

Can you or someone address some questions when possible? Why $4 for some projects but $12 for another? Why no scale? Why address up front for some but not others? 48 hour no cancellation policy?

48 hour no cancellation policy is to prevent someone from pledging a large amount and the suddenly unpledging in the last minute, so the project doesn't fund. Shipping for Brimstone is cheaper because Gambler's is doing their own fulfillment, and Lotrek is using Lake Michigan Mailers, but I'll get back to you regarding shipping prices. We might be making changes to those.

[chach]

Regarding the cancellation policy, you may want to think about changing it to Kickstarter's model of not being able to cancel only if your pledge would not allow the project to fund. For the person that only pledged for a few decks, seems kinda jacked that they'd be stuck with their pledge with 48 hours to go.


Anyways, those that have seen my picture know that I need my beauty rest if I'm gonna be up for the relaunch. See y'all in the morning / afternoon / evening / late night / butt crack of dawn depending on where you reside.

[SpecialK]

Can you or someone address some questions when possible? Why $4 for some projects but $12 for another? Why no scale? Why address up front for some but not others? 48 hour no cancellation policy?

48 hour no cancellation policy is to prevent someone from pledging a large amount and the suddenly unpledging in the last minute, so the project doesn't fund. Shipping for Brimstone is cheaper because Gambler's is doing their own fulfillment, and Lotrek is using Lake Michigan Mailers, but I'll get back to you regarding shipping prices. We might be making changes to those.

Thanks Sher. Glad y'all are reconsidering shipping. It makes no sense that it costs $12 to fulfill one deck. Disagree with the 48 hour thing. KS doesn't have it and doesn't seem to be a big issue there on decks I have backed. If I want to downgrade or change last minute or even cancel due to personal issues that should be acceptable in this crowd funding format. Just my opinion.

[Gruul]

I promise I am not trying to be funny. Is the site up tonight? It is 10:20 PST in california right now and I dont seem to be having luck.

[Sher]

Can you or someone address some questions when possible? Why $4 for some projects but $12 for another? Why no scale? Why address up front for some but not others? 48 hour no cancellation policy?

48 hour no cancellation policy is to prevent someone from pledging a large amount and the suddenly unpledging in the last minute, so the project doesn't fund. Shipping for Brimstone is cheaper because Gambler's is doing their own fulfillment, and Lotrek is using Lake Michigan Mailers, but I'll get back to you regarding shipping prices. We might be making changes to those.

Thanks Sher. Glad y'all are reconsidering shipping. It makes no sense that it costs $12 to fulfill one deck. Disagree with the 48 hour thing. KS doesn't have it and doesn't seem to be a big issue there on decks I have backed. If I want to downgrade or change last minute or even cancel due to personal issues that should be acceptable in this crowd funding format. Just my opinion.

KS actually prevents you from cancelling your pledge within the last 24 hours if doing so will prevent the project from funding. Perhaps we will consider switching it to 24 hours instead of 48?

[SpecialK]

Can you or someone address some questions when possible? Why $4 for some projects but $12 for another? Why no scale? Why address up front for some but not others? 48 hour no cancellation policy?

48 hour no cancellation policy is to prevent someone from pledging a large amount and the suddenly unpledging in the last minute, so the project doesn't fund. Shipping for Brimstone is cheaper because Gambler's is doing their own fulfillment, and Lotrek is using Lake Michigan Mailers, but I'll get back to you regarding shipping prices. We might be making changes to those.

Thanks Sher. Glad y'all are reconsidering shipping. It makes no sense that it costs $12 to fulfill one deck. Disagree with the 48 hour thing. KS doesn't have it and doesn't seem to be a big issue there on decks I have backed. If I want to downgrade or change last minute or even cancel due to personal issues that should be acceptable in this crowd funding format. Just my opinion.

KS actually prevents you from cancelling your pledge within the last 24 hours if doing so will prevent the project from funding. Perhaps we will consider switching it to 24 hours instead of 48?

Thanks for correction. Chach's explanation makes more sense. Rather than prevent any downgrade or cancellation copy KS and do the same. No cancellation if prevents funding. But if I want to move change downgrade or otherwise cancel and doesn't affect funding I should be able to. Regardless best of luck on relaunch and hope I can make it.

[Gemini]

@Sher - thank you for the update, appreciated, not around at 'midday' or whenever you re-launch but good luck with it.

Time for more tea.

[volantangel]

Now now boys, I'm sure things will get sorted out. I must say it was ambitious to start of the way we wanted it, and while we don't know how long this will take, we will try our best to sort things out

[Sher]

Ok - I think I figured out why the shipping was so high for the Venexiana deck. Since CL automatically calculates shipping, for each reward, there is a portion where you have to indicate the number of decks in that reward so that CL can use that number to calculate shipping. For each of the reward tiers, the number of decks was at 0. I guess when 0 is inputted into the calculation, it comes out with just $12. Someone did mention that a brick still costs $12, right? Also explains why the Can-eh-diana deck had better shipping rates. The correct number of decks were indicated for each tier.

EDIT: If you got the error, "Something went wrong, an admin was notified. Please try again later." It's because you forgot to indicate a payment method (either choose PayPal or WePay).

[sinjin7]

Wow, what happened tonight was close to worst case scenario. Perhaps some people needed a dose of some humble pie, but before everyone piles on, I would ask this question:

What would you rather have?

A) A smooth running crowdfunding site with over-priced decks and over-priced shipping with little to no protection for backers, or

B) A crowdfunding site that screwed up its much hyped official launch, but eventually gets its act together and provides you with quality decks that are reasonably priced with safeguards and protections for both creator and backers.

I still think CL has a chance to be Option B, and if that's the case, I'd pick Option B every time. Mike, you screwed the pooch, it is what it is. Take your time and make sure it doesn't happen again and get it right instead of rushing ahead and getting egg in your face twice in a 12 hour period. I strongly suggest you adjust your shipping rates as well. Good luck, you'll need it.

[Sher]

Shipping rates were screwed up because the deck numbers on each tier were not inputted properly (all of them were 0). This caused the shipping calculator to default to 12. I am testing the rewards right now, with the correct # decks inputted for each tier, shipping is as follows:

1 deck = $4
2 decks = $6
3 decks = $8
4 decks = $12
5 decks = $12
6 decks = $12
12 decks = $24
24 decks = $26

[UtterFool]

Shipping rates were screwed up because the deck numbers on each tier were not inputted properly (all of them were 0). This caused the shipping calculator to default to 12. I am testing the rewards right now, with the correct # decks inputted for each tier, shipping is as follows:

1 deck = $4
2 decks = $6
3 decks = $8
4 decks = $12
5 decks = $12
6 decks = $12
12 decks = $24
24 decks = $26

Wow still really high.
I can understand the 1 and 2 deck prices.
But you can fit up to 6 decks into a small flat rate package
And last I checked they were less than $6.00 to ship domestically.
So it seems the shipping center is gouging us by charging double the price.
I understand they need to pay their bills, but we were promised fair and honest shipping in the pipe dreams we were sold.
Same thing looking at a brick which can fit in a medium flat rate and ships for less than $12

[Sher]

Remember that there's bubble wrap to ensure the decks aren't damaged. A small flat rate only fits four with bubble wrap. You can squeeze in 6, but then there'd be no room for bubble wrap and I'm not sure this is an ideal case.

Okay, so let's say a KS deck is $11 (including free shipping in the US). If shipping a single deck is $4, then the deck itself is $7 minus the shipping. So this is what happens:

1 deck: $11 KS; $11 CL ($7+$4 shipping)
2 decks: $22 KS; $20 CL ($14+$6 shipping)
3 decks: $33 KS; $29 CL ($21+$8 shipping)
4 decks: $44 KS; $40 CL ($28+$12 shipping)
5 decks: $55 KS; $47 CL ($35+$12 shipping)
6 decks: $66 KS; $54 CL ($42+$12 shipping)
12 decks: $132 KS; $108 CL ($84+$24 shipping)
24 decksL $265 KS; $194 CL ($168+$26 shipping)

Point being, that if you separated deck prices from shipping, it's actually a discount. If you included them together, then you keep adding $4 shipping to each deck and the difference between the two just gets larger and larger.

[sinjin7]

So then one Brimstone deck shipped is $15.00? Looks like I'll be avoiding that one as if its actual brimstone. And one Can-eh-diana deck is $19.00 shipped? I say can-NO-diana to that.

I'm with Utterfool on some of the shipping rates. I always hate it when people say, "but handling is expensive, remember we use bubble wrap/packing peanuts." You can get bubble wrap and/or packing peanuts very cheaply in bulk.

Let's take the 4 deck rate of $12.00. If you put 4 decks in a Priority Mail small flat rate box, it costs $5.80. Trust me, bubble wrap for 4 decks isn't going to cost over $6.00. I think this illustrates the margin CL makes off of the shipping. Skimming off of the shipping & "handling", its just the same ole same ole here on CL.

[Sher]

I'll see if I can adjust the shipping rates, but I can't guarantee anything at the moment. I think the 4,5,6 rates were based on medium flat rate boxes. I'll get back to you guys to see what I can do.

EDIT: I didn't mean to say the bubble wrap is what's the extra charge. Utterfool said you could fit 6 in a small flat rate and I responded that I think you can only fit 4 if they're wrapped in bubble wrap because it makes them bulkier. Therefore, decks over 4 would have to be a medium flat rate box (yes, I realize that 4 decks is $12 so I'm going to see why that is).

EDIT#2: I checked our shipping quotes. Most of the calculated shipping prices are line with the quote from our production partner except the 4 & 5 deck ones (there was no quote for this, it went from 1,2,3,6 decks). Please don't assume CL is skimming from the shipping and handling charges to get more profit. CL separated shipping and handling for a reason. If CL was planning to earn extra money by making shipping costs high, don't you think we would have stuck to lumping deck prices and shipping prices together to make it less obvious?

[Thirdway Industries]

Some hours ago I was sleeping and I was dreaming the Good Deck funded on day one. And now I woke up

[volantangel]

Some hours ago I was sleeping and I was dreaming the Good Deck funded on day one. And now I woke up

Haha i think that day is tomorrow XD

[sinjin7]

I'll see if I can adjust the shipping rates, but I can't guarantee anything at the moment.

No one expects a company to lose money on shipping, and CL's shipping rates may be marginally better than the typical KS model, but it just seemed to me that CL was hyped to be revolutionary with its transparency and honesty in regards to shipping and handling. To only be marginally better than KS isn't exactly revolutionary.

You can choose to truly be revolutionary and say, "We will not add a hidden cost to pad the bottom line and make money off of shipping and handling, and we'll show you what the actual costs are and charge only just that." Or be honest and just admit, "Yeah, we make a little off of the shipping as a secondary revenue stream", which would be almost revolutionary by even making that admission.

[volantangel]

So then one Brimstone deck shipped is $15.00? Looks like I'll be avoiding that one as if its actual brimstone. And one Can-eh-diana deck is $19.00 shipped? I say can-NO-diana to that.

I'm with Utterfool on some of the shipping rates. I always hate it when people say, "but handling is expensive, remember we use bubble wrap/packing peanuts." You can get bubble wrap and/or packing peanuts very cheaply in bulk.

Let's take the 4 deck rate of $12.00. If you put 4 decks in a Priority Mail small flat rate box, it costs $5.80. Trust me, bubble wrap for 4 decks isn't going to cost over $6.00. I think this illustrates the margin CL makes off of the shipping. Skimming off of the shipping & "handling", its just the same ole same ole here on CL.

Sinjin, i dont think Brimstone is $15, it should be 11 shipped, because they are using self-fulfillment and not a fulfillment partner the shipping rates were built in with the price like on KS. I stress again, this is purely from my understanding.

Also, CL doesnt directly profit from this shipping rates (sure we take 5% off, but the excess you see in shipping isnt going to us), in fact we are trying to sort this issue out and get a better and more accurate shipping prices for everyone

Edit: The shipping rates are provided to us by the fulfillment partners, there might be a little something wrong about the shipping tables that were keyed in, but we are trying to rectify this atm. These charges are not inserted by CL.

[UtterFool]

I would first like to say I never said CL was skimming off the top of shipping.

I said that the shipping centers you chose are gouging.
I thought deals were worked out with companies to get discounts due to the bulk they would be used.
The prices quoted are standard shipping center ridiculous premiums.

Although now that I find that CL is also taking their 5% premium off the top of shipping too. It seems they have admitted to skimming off the top. Bad choice in my opinion. Separating shipping and handling should also separate it from that premium.

Also the shipping center will not be shipping 6 decks in a medium flat rate box.
I doubt they would even use a small flat rate box.
My experience with many of the shipping centers used in KS campaigns is they will use a large "padded" envelope with minimal bubble wrap for any quantity of decks less than a brick.
If these centers are not dedicated to collectible items, they will take the same "care" as they always do.

Although these rates are slightly lower than the KS rates there is nothing Game Changer here

[UtterFool]

Perhaps the funding amount should be separated first .
Then CL can take their 5% from the actual money made.
And keep the shipping costs as just that the cost it takes to ship an item (+ the shipping centers gouged premium)
That would save the backers $0.50 average a campaign.
Which over a bunch of campaigns can add up for the backer

[Sher]

To clarify, the shipping prices are not inflated to make room for the 5% that CL takes. And I'm actually not sure now where the 5% is taken from. I assumed it was 5% off the total funded but we haven't taken 5% off of anything so I'm not sure.

[Cbkimble]

I was charged $14.75 for a brick of borderline and I felt that was too high. It came beautifully packaged though but $24 for a brick, that turns a $90 EB brick into $114 EB brick which isn't bad for a nice deck but still, I think I'd rather not see shipping costs than see them and feel ripped off.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

I was charged $14.75 for a brick of borderline and I felt that was too high. It came beautifully packaged though but $24 for a brick, that turns a $90 EB brick into $114 EB brick which isn't bad for a nice deck but still, I think I'd rather not see shipping costs than see them and feel ripped off.

+1

[StanKindLee]

Good stuff here... taking notes. To go in another direction about CL - does anyone else feel the campaign details are a bit sparse? And where are pics of card faces on some of them... or at least higher res ones to get a good look-see.

[mmiikk]

i was charged 55 USD a couple of days ago, to get a brick to me here in australia, and that was first class not priority- so i think what ive seen of the prices so far is really good.

edit- i tell a lie, it was 50usd which converted to 55 aussie dollars

[SpecialK]

Some additional observations:

1. Edit to clarify: Sher mentioned originally that shipping was $4 for Brimstone due to self-fulfillment. Now, it looks like the mistake was "deck numbers." Is self-fulfillment included in card price? If so, why would prices for shipping also be charged on Brimstone/Self-fulfillment and run the same as a fulfillment center?
2. Jackson's KWF shipping for 4 Tally-Ho decks was $7 bucks. Here it looks like it will be $12 to ship 4 decks. Just a comparison point.
3. This is more curiosity: if CardLauncher is taking 5%, does PayPal still take 3% off payments? Is the 5% CardLauncher taking net of PayPal/WePay costs? On the gross?
4. Lotrek mentioned multiple reward option on CardLauncher. I did not see that as possible yesterday - but really that could just be an oversight on my part.
5. All projects show "Self Fulfillment" except for Brimstone. But I thought Brimstone was self fulfillment? Should clean that up.
6. Please go back when you are able and spell check the website. There are numerous spelling and grammatical errors throughout the FAQ. It would provide a more professional and clean approach if that was done and answers slimmed down.

Just opinions, questions and observations. Best of luck on the relaunch!