The Hive Deck - New King's Wild Deck Now Available

[cosmicsecret]

I don´t know...its just not the bang for the buck you know. My comparing object is Dale Mathis " 3D Metal and mechanized Deck". For $25 shipped in the USA you got a truly one of a kind deck (USPCC Made with BEE Stock) plus metal case - beat that!

I really hope that the market will wake up and do not bite those incredible price hike up´s

[Mike Ratledge]

I think we're all in agreement about one thing: it's subjective. The other thing that seems to be a consensus (mostly) is that these are overpriced, and also most people seem to agree that if we continue to feed the price monster it will only get worse.

For certain, none of this should be directed at Brendan Hong. He's simply caught up in this shit-storm that Jackson created by attempting to make this a 'rare deck'. Anything made in 1000 quantities just isn't that rare, maybe 250 or 500? Sure. That's a very limited number but when you get down to some of the recent "signature" and "reserve" editions of 30-50-75-100 then you're really talking about something that is unusual enough to be called 'rare'. These are scarce by design and intent.

Jackson needs to listen, we're not being intentionally cruel here, we're just pointing out that he's rapidly approaching the point of no return (and no returns on investment?). The problem is that the fanboys will always blindly let him milk them dry, and in doing so all the bitching we can do isn't going to change things - much - unless we do something like a boycott which before I just couldn't see my way clear to, but I've thought about it. I can't be doing something like that right now, I just have too much to do and too much to lose if Jackson were to decide that as the 'ring-leader' he wanted to make an example out of me and take me to court over it. It's not slander/libel depending on your view of this being written or me actually speaking. It's simply the observation that we're being taken to the cleaners IF we don't react.

I'll cut my pursuit of this topic off at this point, we really should be talking about The Hive decks and they are quite adequate as far as design as has been pointed out. They just aren't up to the price being asked.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

On to the deck...

The backs and tuck are awesome IMO. The courts are very nice. Not quite what I like the most, but very good. The same for the Pips.

[volantangel]

I think its a gorgeous deck, i still stand by my opinion that this deck ended up with the wrong people, but good job on the cards itself brendan !

[caramelo]

What counts for me is the art of the deck.
If I like, and I have money, I buy. Art is priceless.
I already bought decks for $8 and decks for $100.

I only have one question, why is that the international shipping change so much?
I have not bought Jackson Tally-Ho deck only because of the International shipping cost. I noticed that it was more expensive to send the deck during the campaign that if I buy a any other deck on his site.
Has he not have a Fulfillment Unite? He can't keep the same delivery prices?
I buy Jackson Tally-Ho deck later when he offers for sale on the website or in any european reseller.

I like very much the art of Hive deck, but I only buy if the the international shipping is not absurd.

[chach]

Since Brandon and Jackson seem to have abandoned us 10%ers here at UC, here's Brandon's reply to the price point question brought up at PCF. Sorry for the copy-pasta, but not everyone here reads their forum as well.

I do get that the price of the deck is going to cost a pretty penny and then some. As I've said before, part of the equation of the retail price point is the cost of production and all the other hidden fees assorted with producing a deck and fulfilling shipment of it. It's stuff I found out about while producing this deck and some of it is sort of crazy 'cause it's things you might not think about. As well, being self-funded has a higher risk for us as at the end of the day, we don't get paid at all until we sell decks unlike crowd-funding where if nothing else at least production of the deck is taken care of courtesy of backers depending on the funding goals and what not. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but equally either one has their own pros and cons. And another factor is the paying the artist (ie. me) as I've put in a lot of hours. I'm not saying that somehow my talent or my work is better than other artist/designers out there 'cause at the end of the day is up to a person to judge how much their work is worth. I know people want a lower price point, but as one of my teachers use to tell me, if I'm going to average out my hours worked to what I get paid and it's less than what I'd get working at McDonalds, well apparently I'm doing things wrong. I can't work for free or below a certain value or else I should give up what I do. You hire a plumber to fix your pipes, the plumber gets paid the proper amount.

I do know that the statement of ensuring an artist/designer gets paid and having the project funded via Crowdfunding with zero profit could be contradictory, but it's up to each artist/designer and entrepreneur to decide how they want to run their business. We have our own model of business that we're following.

I think the deck is equal to the cost of a lot of decks post-Kickstarter. I think for some people that higher post Kickstarter price is easier to swallow 'cause they could have had the chance to grab it for less on Kickstarter. I want to point out that I'm not bashing Kickstarter. I've been lucky enough to back some projects where the post-Kickstarter value of a deck skyrocketted (ie. Federal 52 part 1 decks) and got my own benefits from it. And I do get it, it's a lot of money to be spending on a project. We thought about running a Kickstarter campaign, but decided to try something different. Do I wish we could print more so that we could have lower the price? Sure, but equally it'd be a lot of money invested into something without a sure returned. And it wasn't like people are knocking down on our doors to give us a ton of money to print the deck. We did this ourselves and we're proud of the deck. I'm not saying I don't think the deck will sell, but no business venture is a guarantee. As well, I work with kids as part of my day job. I would have loved to have a couple gross as my own personal stock to give away to them. My boss wanted me to do that until I explained about the cost of it all.

At the end of the day, this project won't make Jackson or me super rich or what not. I'll still be part of that 99%. I'll be still looking at bills to be paid and some stuff will still be out of my price range to afford as always. I do hope this answers any question about retail price. It does feel like there's a bit more scrutiny for some odd reason this time around. Every business figures out how they want to do business and keeps to it. I wouldn't want to begrudge anyone for setting their own price point. I do appreciate an neutral place to answer these questions so thanks for the Discourse board for that. And really, thanks again for everyone for their interest and support.

As for an unlimited deck, probably not but I'm really unsure. When I designed the deck, there was an idea for a green back design as I honestly love that colour and don't see it as often as I'd like, but the idea of an additional green design was scrapped. I've included a picture of the older design before we enlarged it to make thinner borders. I do know I'm working on another deck and we'll see how that one goes and its own price point once it's closer to finish.

[vasta41]

So the way I interpret that is he thinks that KS prices are "low" in order to attract potential backers. And obviously the desire to attract many backers is to fund the project. But post-KS sales are a double edged sword.. once the project is funded, prices go up and it's payday for the creator(s). I have no problem with this- artists should be paid. But if "low" prices initially attracted business, in theory, once they're raised it will repel business (some business anyway).

So what's the best way to make money- selling a lot of something cheaply or selling a little of something expensive? Tis a conundrum.. but based on the price point of this deck I guess this question has already been answered.

[sinjin7]

Since Brandon and Jackson seem to have abandoned us 10%ers here at UC, here's Brandon's reply to the price point question brought up at PCF.

"I do appreciate an neutral place to answer these questions so thanks for the Discourse board for that."

I guess we won't be seeing Brendan or Jack$on coming by anytime soon since they apparently don't appreciate our lack of "neutrality". That's unfortunate for them...

[MagikFingerz]

Since Brandon and Jackson seem to have abandoned us 10%ers here at UC, here's Brandon's reply to the price point question brought up at PCF.

"I do appreciate an neutral place to answer these questions so thanks for the Discourse board for that."

I guess we won't be seeing Brendan or Jack$on coming by anytime soon since they apparently don't appreciate our lack of "neutrality". That's unfortunate for them...

No doubt. "Out of sight, out of mind" isn't a principle that works very well for businessmen. If ignoring a promise to UC members was bad, simply turning their back isn't going to help things.

[WillHart CthulhuWho1]

The best things I can say about The Hive Decks:

I love the look of the cards; and have been waiting for them since they were teased early this year.

But I do hate the pricing; especially being "retired" on a very tight budget and burning up my savings until I can get my SS next year.

But I will purchase a pair of decks, knowing that this will mean I have to pass up something else I could have purchased with the money.

And I'll do this because I'm a collector, and it is not up to me to tell an artist what they may or may not charge for their work. If it is worth as much to me as they are asking, I will find a way to pay their price; and in the end, I'll feel lucky to own a piece of their work.

On a side note, I've also purchased some of Jackson Robinson's Tally-Ho's, Civil War Decks and Uncut Sheets too; which were priced high for me too (not the Civil War Decks though - $3.99 was great!).

Brendan's and Jackson's decks have both stepped on my toes in a funny way too, because they both include elements that I had already designed into my own first decks, so the World will think I am copying from them; but that's the price you pay when you don't bring things to market before others do. Oh well...

I still love their cards; and I'll buy what I can afford as long as none of you tell my long-suffering wife!

Will Hart
Fullerton, California

ps
Mike,
I'll be there on August 15, but please get Cardlauncher going before I'm broke buying these other decks!

[Widdee]

Brendan, the deck is beautiful, well executed, and your art is first class. There, I've said something nice, and I mean it!

[chach]

Not to continue to beat the proverbial dead horse, and keep sourcing from the other forum, but IMO Don summed up rather eloquently the same gripes that most of us here have and even brought up the theorized playing card bubble. Nice to know that it's not just us 10%ers of UC that think this is a bad direction for the market.


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[Sher]

He said it in a much nicer way. Maybe we should work on getting our message across in a similar way. I'm not saying we should only say positive things. I'm just saying that if we have a criticism or something negative to say, that we say it in a calm and respectful manner and not in such a demanding tone. I'm not saying this applies to every poster on this thread, either. Some people are calm and respectful enough. Others... Not so much.

[chach]

He said it in a much nicer way. Maybe we should work on getting our message across in a similar way. I'm not saying we should only say positive things. I'm just saying that if we have a criticism or something negative to say, that we say it in a calm and respectful manner and not in such a demanding tone. I'm not saying this applies to every poster on this thread, either. Some people are calm and respectful enough. Others... Not so much.

But what will we do with our torches and pitchforks then? Take all the fun out of it.

[Strag]

Since Brandon and Jackson seem to have abandoned us 10%ers here at UC, here's Brandon's reply to the price point question brought up at PCF.

"I do appreciate an neutral place to answer these questions so thanks for the Discourse board for that."

I guess we won't be seeing Brendan or Jack$on coming by anytime soon since they apparently don't appreciate our lack of "neutrality". That's unfortunate for them...

No doubt. "Out of sight, out of mind" isn't a principle that works very well for businessmen. If ignoring a promise to UC members was bad, simply turning their back isn't going to help things.

I would guess the reason they are not here has more to do with a competitor bashing their business who runs the board and competing businesses, not the grief he caught for the lack of a signature. In that case I wouldn't blame Jackson. His participation would add value to the board, whether you agree with him or not. This was the problem with mixing UC with commercial business and even though they now have been separated slightly that perception is unfortunately not going to change.

[Norbie]

I feel like I'm entering into the Twilight Zone as I'm about to say this, but I think Pierre may be right: if you don't like certain discussions or individuals, just skip their posts. Its so simple to do and will save you a lot of aggravation. Again, in the Twilight Zone here, but even I am getting tired of railing against what I believe to be unreasonable prices. However, the price of decks is integral to the deck itself, so I don't believe these topics should be divided.

Even though it may appear at times like no one's paying attention, people like D$D and Jack$on do pay attention to what's said on UC. We don't have personal phone lines to contact them directly, so why not use this forum to try to make our points and try to make changes for the better? I believe it can be done because we, collectively, on UC can be influential. know, I know, some people get weary of all the "bitching" and "whining", but unfortunately that's what it takes sometimes to get people's attention.

I like the fact that (for the most part), we're not sycophantic fanboys of certain companies or people stumbling over ourselves to be "Yes" men. We're independent, and have minds and opinions of our own, and I hope UC is the place where you can find the truth, as brutal or bitter as it may be. I also hope this is a place where we can have divergent opinions but can still co-exist with each other without trying to shout each other down.

I must admit that I haven't seen Sinjin being happy with anything for a while now.

LOL! That's pretty funny. Have I become a grumpy old man now? "Hey you! Get off my lawn!" I was happy about the Hive deck since I think Brandon did a fantastic job, but it appears I will not be owning this deck, not because I can't afford it, but due to principle, and that doesn't make me happy. I guess I'm just going to have to wait for Uusi's 6th deck to be happy again...

That reminds me, I gotta get The Twilight Zone on blu-ray. I went to Amazon.com, but I found the series cheaper in Amazon.co.uk, but then you wouldn't believe it this. Usually Amazons cheaper but I just checked JB HI-FI.com.au (I don't know if you get this company outside Australia) and it's even cheaper! Couldn't believe it I ................

Oh ........ Yes this price thing issue ..... I believe that if we paid a little less for a litre of milk, like maybe if taxes were lowered, then deck prices would be less as well. I truly believe that.

[badpete69]

They are now available for the few that might be interested hehehe

[markjanderson]

I picked up a Matching Number Set and also added a couple of the Kings Wild Collector's Brick Boxes since I was paying for shipping anyway.

[volantangel]

Why will the decks only be going out 2weeks to a month later ?

"The delivery of The Hive will start mid to late August. "

[Maddest Hammer]

I am curious about that myself. One reason could be that Jackson is still fulfilling the Independence campaign?

[PlayingCardz]

Or it is a disguised presale ...

[chach]

That'd kinda odd. They're in the middle of shipping the Independence deck, and are experiencing delays on the Ltd Edition boxes that want arrive til 11th or so per last update. Why they wouldn't be ready to start packing these today / tomorrow and shipping Monday is just odd. You know you have a deck release, you supposedly have the decks on hand but you don't pack and ship for a fortnight? WTF?

[Cbkimble]

I picked up a few of these. Seems to me like all of the high opinions Jackson built up with his decks on KS, especially the independence deck, is slowly going downhill, and fast. He might wanna get his stuff together before KW ends up an afterthought.

[chach]

I picked up a few of these. Seems to me like all of the high opinions Jackson built up with his decks on KS, especially the independence deck, is slowly going downhill, and fast. He might wanna get his stuff together before KW ends up an afterthought.

It's my opinion that he shouldn't have set out to conquer the whole world, but rather partnered up with someone to avoid the business mistakes that he has. The civil war deck from Bicycle is the perfect example, stunningly beautiful artwork that is making a killing for USPCC, but that's a story for a whole other time entirely. I'm looking forward to the details about its ltd edition he will release.

Anyhow, back on track, this deck is by Brandon, and is great but I'd rather have seen a separate KS campaign rather than be the first non crowd sourced deck by KIng$ Wild. I checked and the shop would allow me to add 23 mixed bricks only or 276 decks. Decent sales so far I'd say and I'm glad that it's working out for Brendan, just wish it was t a limited release and that Jack$on and him didn't hold a grudge against us rather than make little comments on PCF.

[Cbkimble]

I for one hope they sell out within a week.

[Mike Ratledge]

I picked up a few of these. Seems to me like all of the high opinions Jackson built up with his decks on KS, especially the independence deck, is slowly going downhill, and fast. He might wanna get his stuff together before KW ends up an afterthought.

It's my opinion that he shouldn't have set out to conquer the whole world, but rather partnered up with someone to avoid the business mistakes that he has. The civil war deck from Bicycle is the perfect example, stunningly beautiful artwork that is making a killing for USPCC, but that's a story for a whole other time entirely. I'm looking forward to the details about its ltd edition he will release.

Anyhow, back on track, this deck is by Brandon, and is great but I'd rather have seen a separate KS campaign rather than be the first non crowd sourced deck by KIng$ Wild. I checked and the shop would allow me to add 23 mixed bricks only or 276 decks. Decent sales so far I'd say and I'm glad that it's working out for Brendan, just wish it was t a limited release and that Jack$on and him didn't hold a grudge against us rather than make little comments on PCF.

I won't go into the psychology of "making a rarity", but the first thing you do when selling a 1000-LE serially numbers set is only offer 2/3rd or 3/4th of the stock (or even less), so it appears that they are selling very quickly. If you only made 500 total available online it would certainly lead to good sales. Now, I did NOT say that's what is happening, in fact I have no clue just how many were offered. I do know that by adding up the "LE" decks from some projects I find only 600-800 if that in most cases, and only once ever do I recall all of the 1000 decks being accounted for, and even then only 900 were for sale during the backing period The thing is that anyone doing so is WELL within their rights to do it exactly that way! Nothing 'funny' about it as long as you are clear what you are doing.

[sprouts1115]

@Mike - I read they are offering 800 decks. So, they are keeping 1,200.

Screenshot 2014-08-02 21.03.57.png (11.07 KiB) Viewed 2123 times

So they are keeping 3/5 of the stock of cards. It seems to be a new model. All red and blue decks are going to be numbered 1-1000. I'm slow to learn this deck seems to be already made. Which seems better. You can ship them out quicker, It seems they're going out in late August. In this model, I do find an error though. It might be best to show the cards before they are printed. Can't hurt to find errors.

Honestly, I don't see Brendan Hong http://www.brendanhong.com posting here. I wonder why? He seems like a nice guy on that other site http://www.playingcardforum.com/playing ... ew-artist/. Do I think he will design some more cards? Yes I do. In fact, maybe a series. This is where the rarity comes in. Did he make mistakes on his first deck. Everyone does. He should have had more eyes on his deck besides Jack$on. I see the skinny club. I LOve the new money symbols. D$D, Kings$Wilds and lets include $ickstarter and Card$Launcher. Everyone has to make money. Mike that could be your new logo. Why not? I like it.

[MagikFingerz]

@Mike - I read they are offering 800 decks. So, they are keeping 1,200.

Screenshot 2014-08-02 21.03.57.png

So they are keeping 3/5 of the stock of cards. It seems to be a new model. All red and blue decks are going to be numbered 1-1000. I'm slow to learn this deck seems to be already make. Which seems better. You can ship them out quicker, It seems they're going out in late August. In this model, I do find an error though. It might be best to show the cards before they are printed. Can't hurt to find errors.

Honestly, I don't see Brendan Hong http://www.brendanhong.com posting here. I wonder why? He seems like a nice guy on that other site http://www.playingcardforum.com/playing ... ew-artist/. Do I think he will design some more cards? Yes I do. In fact, maybe a series. This is where the rarity comes in. Did he make mistakes on his first deck. Everyone does. He should have had more eyes on his deck besides Jack$on. I see the skinny club. I LOve the new money symbols. D$D, Kings$Wilds and lets include $ickstarter and Card$Launcher. Everyone has to make money. Mike that could be your new logo. Why not? I like it.

Posted a new thread about the psychology stuff in the general section to discuss it more generally.

Brendan used to post here, at times more often than Jack$on himself. I personally loved having him here, because he could answer questions about King$ Wild when Jack$on was busy (as he understandably is). And as you say, he does seem like a very nice guy.

Too bad there's no s to replace with a dollar sign in either Mike Ratledge or Card Launcher (intentional perhaps? Smart move, I suppose ).

[Eoghann]

I assumed they'd be keeping 200 of each. Doesn't make sense to keep that insane amount. If anything, they'll pull a super duper limited, fancy gilded version later on with the sliver they kept.

[chach]

Yeah I read it as 1000 printed of each color, less than 800 of each color to be made available at current time. Some will probably be gilded or something or packaged for a King$ Wild mixed brick offering or they'll pull a D$D / Ellusionist move and send out a mailer sometime in a few months saying that they've decided to open the King$ Wild vault and offer the super secret squirrel ultra limited stock of the Hive deck for sale again.

Or Jack$on will use them to trade for his personal collection like he did with the Fed 52s after the Kickstarter campaign.

BTW site now limits you to 22 bricks. So one brick has been sold in last 5 hours.