Tally-Ho - Kings Wild Project Edition - Live

[DelMagic]

While Club 808 decks may be $7.99, they aren't going to be staple decks that are commonly available for the next decade or two like regular BIkes and Tallys.

Paying $12 for 1-deck with shipping will certainly work short-term with a new deck. The question is, how many people are going to reorder the deck as a staple deck at that price? Even slightly discounted for a half brick or so, I don't think many magicians or others who might run through decks often will go for that on a recurring basis.

I am looking forward to getting a few for my collection and to use, but at these prices I'll stick with 808 Bikes and standard Tallys for my regular working decks.

[montecarlojoe]

I think the idea is to establish the design and gauge interest in this as a staple. (But the KW turtle back may not be intended for that).

If it were to become the KW go-to deck then I'm sure KW would make that investment in a larger run for second edition and onward and the price point would fall accordingly.

[Maddest Hammer]

My thought is this: the initial set-up costs money. Making the printing plates costs money. As the courts are called "Kings Wild Standard", we can assume that they will be used for other decks (come on Crimson Arrow!), so the plates for the number cards, faces and aces will already be done, hence lower production costs. So the beginning (Tally's) may well be the means to an end. Several of us just paid $20 a pop for Paul's Zenith, and that didn't include shipping, and there was very little complaint about price. Apples and oranges, I know, but not really. Lotrek just sold 200 decks at $90-$100 each, and most people were like "can I get more?"

I understand that at this price, it's not going to be the "beat it up, get it dirty, treat it like crap" deck that the $1.99 rider backs from Wally-World are. Hopefully the tuck will be of higher quality, and the deck will be printed on the "Bee" version of USPCC's paper, and if so, will be a big cut above said $1.99 deck. If the shipping is progressive, instead of a flat rate for a brick, you can get a brick for $105, which comes to just under $9 a deck. Still a little steep, but this is Jackson's job, not a hobby.

[vasta41]

Why is everyone up in arms about an $8 price point?

Here's my issue (I mentioned it before in a previous post but I'll elaborate)- total cost, which includes shipping, is $12. It's all fine and dandy that the deck is $8 and comparatively speaking $4 is reasonable for shipping. But I (and probably most collectors) look at the total cost when ordering playing cards. And the percentage on shipping for these Tallys stings a bit! Math- 33% of the money I would (and will) spend on 1 deck is going toward shipping costs. As another example, Zenith's were $20 with $5 US shipping (I think). While you're obviously spending more to get a Zenith, only 20% of your money is going to shipping costs. Which doesn't sting as much.

I understand that nothing can be done about this and I'm still going to buy these. But I would say to stop looking at this deck as a "non-limited standard" or whatever and start looking at it as a deck of cards that is in the same price point as most custom decks nowadays. Jackson made another nice deck of playing cards that doesn't cost much less- or more- than other decks of its kind today.

[Sparkz]

Mike I know you feel like your doing a public service calling out others and what their doing with their projects and business, I would caution to worry about your business and how it's being built, presented and put together.

Everyone here and on every other media outlet has an opinion and a "Source", everyone thinks theirs a motive, people will buy what they want if they feel it fair, not you or anyone else will be able to tell someone what that "Magic" number is. People will bitch about something until it's handed to them, then everything is ok.

You, JR, and everyone else "Producing" something are in "Business" and with that, there are profits. As for business practices, I would caution anyone from "casting the 1st stone"

[CBJ]

... man... are you people serious??????

Complaining about an $8 price??? WHo cares how much they cost Jackson, it's business.
Wasn't there a $100 deck just recently??? Didn't Paul sell his decks for $20.. from a cheaper printer??

Mike, you need to step off your high horse. Face it, you're just pissy because Jackson isn't part of your CL.. get over it.
For you to call him a buddy, and to be saying some of the stuff I've read and heard ... you're very two-faced.

Quack Quack Mike.. Quack Quack


(what's that smell... smells like a ton of burning bridges)


Jay

[Mike Ratledge]

... man... are you people serious??????

Complaining about an $8 price??? WHo cares how much they cost Jackson, it's business.
Wasn't there a $100 deck just recently??? Didn't Paul sell his decks for $20.. from a cheaper printer??

Mike, you need to step off your high horse. Face it, you're just pissy because Jackson isn't part of your CL.. get over it.
For you to call him a buddy, and to be saying some of the stuff I've read and heard ... you're very two-faced.

Quack Quack Mike.. Quack Quack


(what's that smell... smells like a ton of burning bridges)


Jay

No, quite the opposite, in fact. I'm just fine, actually. The problem isn't whether or not Jackson is there, and I'm quite over being anything other than grateful for our existing and long-term relationship. I suppose that if I am going to sell thousands of decks at around $7-$8 each (and $4 shipping for a single deck, maybe $5-$6 for up to 1/2 brick, you think that unreasonable? I just want to break everybody out of the model that shipping is built in on everything, simply because it's been that way for a while and "people are used to it".

[sinjin7]

People can talk about quacking ducks all they want, but for me, the problem lies in the fact that the KW Tally isn't a deck that is suited for a crowd-funding platform. Jackson is calling this a staple deck. If it is to truly be a staple, then by definition it will be a deck that will be produced in great quantities steadily over an indefinite period of time.

He already stated he can't match the quantities of a mass produced deck, which is why it's priced more like a limited edition custom deck ($12 shipped for one deck). Then is it really a staple deck? What happens after this "crowd-funded" project completes and he distributes all 2500 to 5000 (or whatever number) decks to his "backers" and sells off any excess decks? Is he really going to run another "crowd-funding" campaign to print another run? Over and over again since this is a "staple" deck? Subsequent print runs should cost less since the art is already done and the printing plates already made, so will he charge less for these subsequent runs then? If so, then why overpay in the first run for a staple deck, just wait until they become cheaper as they continue to be produced (since its a staple). If he keeps the price at $12 shipped for these subsequent print runs, then its waaaay over-priced, especially for a staple deck that will have an unlimited and indefinite print run with start up costs already paid for. Do you see why a "staple" deck isn't suited to a true crowd-funding model?

There is no doubt this deck will be produced, otherwise Jackson wouldn't be calling it a staple deck. Therefor this isn't truly crowd-funding to give a fledgling company a boost, its a pre-sale for an already established company. After having run multiple $100,000.00+ campaigns on KS, I have a difficult time believing he doesn't have the capital to produce his "staple" deck on his own without using our money to begin production.

Jackson should've gone with a different deck to start his KW crowd-funding. A blinged up custom with a truly limited print run is better suited for the crowd-funding model, not a staple deck that will be indefinitely produced in non-limited numbers. When we heard the KW Tally would be a staple, we all had certain expectations based on that definition. Then when we find out this so-called staple deck is produced and priced like a limited run custom instead, its only natural you would have some confusion.

D$D started Deck$tarter with ill-suited inaugural decks for their crowd-funding platform that were already produced and over-priced and that lead to confusion and suspicion, and I don't know if Deck$tarter has ever recovered from that poor start. I think in his desire to have his KW crowd-funding get off to a good start, Jackson chose a deck he figured would be a slam dunk and went with it. But like I said, a staple deck is not well suited for crowd-funding and I hope he doesn't go down the same path as the Buck$.

As for Mike's comments, I think he should refrain from commenting on other people's playing card "crowd-funding enterprises. Period. Move along, Mike, nothing else to see here. Any comments you make (even legit ones concerning pricing) will be viewed as biased and disregarded anyways since you have competing interests. We all wondered why you came down so harshly on Deck$tarter, and now we all know it was because they came out first with a competing platform you were on the verge of announcing for yourself. You're doing it again with Jackson.

[UtterFool]

If they say it's crowd funding then it is - if it relies on pledges to reach a target to produce a product then that's that - what they call it is irellevant. It could be called "KW Unicorn Workshop" and it wouldn't matter.

If they called it "Unicorn Worship" they may be able to file for a religious non-profit.

PS. Ducks are awesome.

[Bikefanatic]

I'm one of the few people who doesn't care how much a deck cost if I like it, I just buy. He has that other deck that's supposed to be low priced that's fully customized so maybe that'll get all the fuss too.

[Cbkimble]

If this is a staple deck that will be produced indefinitely, $8 plus shipping is a bit steep. Why pay that for a deck now when in a year or two, they'll be 4-5 plus shipping. I'll probably pick up a deck or two just to have a V1.

[montecarlojoe]

I really liked the teased yellow and blue backed version - I hope that returns at some point!

[Sher]

I really liked the teased yellow and blue backed version - I hope that returns at some point!

I think Jackson mentioned that the yellow and blue version will be the LE version which will not be available during the campaign, but will be made available later.

EDIT: Quote from Jackson (page 5)

Now the question is... what happened to the Limited Ed Tallys with gold/yellow accents? Will those be released on Wednesday as well?

As of now I WILL be producing a LTD Version with the Gold and Blue back BUT at a different time. The focus of this project is two fold, one to create an economical Kings Wild deck that more people can enjoy because of the price point. Second, this project will be the first project I run off of KS and on my new Kings Wild Funded. Kings Wild Funded is fully developed and has a squeaky clean flow. I wanted for the first project to be simple and straight forward with little moving parts. 100% of the art work is done, It has been approved and blessed by USPCC legal, and 100% of the art work has already been submitted and in the production schedule of USPCC.

Back to the possible LTD Tally Hos, I would expect those to appear later this year. I really like the Tally Ho brand and it's History so I foresee me creating multiple editions.

[montecarlojoe]

Cool. Thanks for that

[JacksonRobinson]

The Word "Staple Deck" is being thrown around alot with this deck in regards to it's price and production. I've looked through my comments on this thread and no where (that I can find) do ever say that this is meant to be a "Staple Deck" All I ever mention is trying to make a lower price point deck.

[Strag]

The Word "Staple Deck" is being thrown around alot with this deck in regards to it's price and production. I've looked through my comments on this thread and no where (that I can find) do ever say that this is meant to be a "Staple Deck" All I ever mention is trying to make a lower price point deck.

Well you kinda did in the Crimson Arrow thread:

These will be paper for sure. I'm shooting for these to possibly be one of my first "test the waters" for the first Kings Wild "staple" deck. I'm shooting for an $8ish price range on Kickstarter.

and then in the Federal 52 Second Edition thread:

Don't underestimate the power if resting / negative space. I'm shooting for my tally ho deck to be my first staple deck.

I think the problem stems from what people consider a "staple" deck to be. Personally I think an $8 deck is just fine, sadly the international shipping means it will probably be out for me until/unless you can hook up with a UK/European supplier like JP to sell these on.

[sinjin7]

That's the great thing about the internet: Anything you say or post will always be there, whether you remember saying it or not. This is a good lesson for all - say what you mean and mean what you say.

The Word "Staple Deck" is being thrown around alot with this deck in regards to it's price and production. I've looked through my comments on this thread and no where (that I can find) do ever say that this is meant to be a "Staple Deck" All I ever mention is trying to make a lower price point deck.

So I'm confused now, is this a staple deck or not? Despite what you've said before (and we know you like to "change directions" here at UC), the above post suggests it may not be a staple deck after all. Why don't you let us know what your anticipated print run will be for the future of this deck? And with all due respect, $12 shipped is not a lower price point from other KS custom decks. If fact, $12 shipped is the same price as every one of your other KS projects....

[vasta41]

And with all due respect, $12 shipped is not a lower price point from other KS custom decks. If fact, $12 shipped is the same price as every one of your other KS projects....

I agree. And I shall reiterate:

I would say to stop looking at this deck as a "non-limited standard" or whatever and start looking at it as a deck of cards that is in the same price point as most custom decks nowadays. Jackson made another nice deck of playing cards that doesn't cost much less- or more- than other decks of its kind today.

[CBJ]

The wait is OVER.... They are live!


http://www.kingswildfunded.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[vasta41]

I wish the tuck were embossed Still pretty though!

[montecarlojoe]

Cool - grabbed a couple - pretty clean looking site too.

Whether or not to add shipping to the pledge wasn't too clear but got through without too much hassle.

[bamabenz]

In for a brick. Too bad only blue backs.

[MagikFingerz]

Special Funding Period Pricing

During the funding period the price of the Kings Wild Tally Ho ® decks will be discounted to the price of $8 per deck. Once the funding period is over and the decks are available to the general public the retail price will be raised to $12 per deck, so act now to take advantage of the funding period price.

I guess all that talk of making an affordable deck didn't mean anything...

[cosmicsecret]

A bit to expensive for my taste

[sinjin7]

This isn't a staple deck, this isn't affordable at $16 shipped per deck after July 21, and its not limited - I don't care whether there is a small v1, v2, etc. at the bottom of each box for each printing run. From the pics, there doesn't seem to be any embossing or foil or interior printing/foiling on the inside of the tuck. We won't get these decks until December. And why only a blue deck? You know a red one is coming, just do them together to save us on shipping (which by the way, is done through his shipping co.).

Jackson sold most of his regular edition custom decks for $12 shipped on KS, along with all the KS and Amazon fees included as well as tucks with all the bells and whistles. He's now set up his own "crowd funding" site to save on those fees. All this is great - believe me, I don't begrudge Jackson wanting to make money, that's his prerogative and he needs to make profit to continue to do what he does. Just be open and frank about it and say, "I want to make more money!". Don't come here and spout inaccurate nonsense about "staple" decks or act like you're doing us this big favor by being so proud to be offering us an affordable fully custom deck at a lower price point when its not. Damn, who do you think you're fooling? Honesty and transparency is always the best policy....

[chess]

I'm gonna pass

I'd rather get 3 - 4 regular tally hos for the same price as this. I wouldn't have to wait months for them either.

[bamabenz]

I paid $132 for a brick, that's $11 per Standard Edition deck from The Independence campaign.
I bought two Tally bricks for $177 total. That's $7.375 per deck, US shipping included.
That is considerably less. It may still be too expensive to you, but its a good deal to me.

/bama

[sinjin7]

I bought two Tally bricks for $177 total. That's $7.375 per deck, US shipping included.
That is considerably less. It may still be too expensive to you, but its a good deal to me.

/bama

By my calculations, two bricks should be $180 ($90 x 2) plus $15 shipping ($10 for the 1st brick, $5 for the second brick) for a total of $195. How are you at $177?

[Cbkimble]

He may have used the discount code.

[bamabenz]

Yup.