Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher"!

[Mike Ratledge]

There's also no way to indicate that you want more than 1 of any item that I know of in any CrowdFunding sytstem - at this time. You can be certain that once we are up and running it will be on the short list of things to get done, but for now I need to concentrate my efforts in other areas of customization. I have limited resources and limited time at this point...

I have very limited knowledge of coding, but could it be modeled similar to an online store? You just add the item to your "cart" and then pay?

I would think that's the way to go too. A limited reward would just be purchasing from a item with a set amount of stock available. The hard part would move to how to limit people to a certain number.

Well, to be honest and after reviewing it with my chief financial adviser (she's sitting here beside me) here's the plan: first of all - we have to be very careful with the model that it's a retail store. It's not! It's a CrowdFunding platform where people can speculate (and yes, that is the correct word) with their wallets on which decks will be the best value for their money, and indeed pick and choose amongst the awards that are offered by every project's campaign by CL clients.

The rub is moving from the CrowdFunding paradigm over to the model where we're using what amounts to a shopping cart for each individual campaign, and letting people set limits on the number of each item available to one account, some being "1 per customer", some being "2 per person" as the example above, and some being "All you want!", basically. If someone wants to buy 4 bricks from one project and they have the resources to do so, why should or would we limit that? I see no good reason. The bottom line is that we need to have (literal) weights associated with every single item so that we can compute that shipping fee for every possible combination. Can we do that today? No. Can we do it at launch time? Not likely, but I suppose possible. Can we do it in 6 weeks or 6 months after launch? You bet your momma.

The fact is that everybody doesn't need to worry about having a US-based bank account, because they'll be tossing the funding into a separate account that we manage to escrow funds for production and fulfillment, and anything beyond that goes to the client. We'll have to figure out a way to make that work perfectly, because at first I can foresee that there will be issues with it, just bound to happen. Maybe disburse 75% of the overage 15 days after funding ends? That sounds reasonable to me, and that overage of 25% beyond what we project costs for production and fulfillment are held in escrow until the final payments are made - by the company - to the production and fulfillment partners. Now that USPCC AKA "Bicycle" and other brands is on board, we have the ability to see all quotes, and as anyone that has followed the conversation knows already, we are going to require every client to have quotes for production and fulfillment before they can even launch. Is that the way it's done now? Nope - in fact it's why people can rip money off and run with it, and never even have a clue what it takes to produce and deliver a product, that's life: people take advantage of the system any time they can. We're building in way too many safeguards for it to happen, because we're going to have their money until they deliver the items to their backers. Plain and simple - and this is not a challenge - I don't see how anyone can get around that. That's how we're going to offer "Guaranteed Delivery" for anything you pledge with a few disclaimers that we can't be held responsible for something that is never planned well and possibly can't even be made. We aren't the production partners, but we will know whether or not something is reasonable to start with, and those production costs are going to be a moving target as the artists/designers adjust their artwork and products to what the market demands.

Let's just look at Lorenzo's Heretic project's campaign: obviously I knew about the once mysterious "Brick XI" long before it was ever shown to the public. Is it something that's been done before? No, it is not. Is it something that he already had looked at by his production people and confirmed that it is 'do-able', or he wouldn't be offering it. Is it something that will set a new trend? I sure hope so, because every single thing you create that opens up a new territory for collectors is a good thing! Let's say for example that only 50 of those are ever produced. Will the value of them go up? Again, bet your momma they will - before they are even delivered. Are those awesome Heretic Noctis decks going to set another new standard for card decks? (see above) He has a way of gauging interest and a mind that grasps both what people want and within reason what he's capable of producing as well. You marry those two together and you have your second deck ever (technically the first) doing over $50,000 in funding - in fact it happened while I was typing: now $50,030

[Mike Ratledge]

Ohhh, you mean a limit on the number of LE decks you can buy. Maybe on the drop down of how many, only give certain options? If the limit is four, the only option is 1, 2, 3, or 4. Is there some way to prevent people from inputting more than 4?

I was thinking also, bulk discounts. Kinda like when you purchase from D&D and if you put in half a brick, it would automatically place a 10% discount (applicable only to the decks, not anything else in the cart), and if you put in a brick, it would automatically place a 15% discount.

As much as I like the sound of it working that way, it simply can't - unless every single artist/designer agrees to that up front, and I suppose we could make that part of the process - once we have the "cart" working. For now, the pricing for individual decks and larger quantities including bricks is set differently by every single project. It's certainly worth looking at and seeing how the artists/designers respond.

I'd like that - to 'homogenize' the pricing, but in reality different people are used to pricing things (and the "discounts") themselves. We're already asking them to swallow a whole lot of "it's different!" from the get-go. We'll think about it, and it may well be something we do down the road, but for now - each project will set the costs and discounts for multiples of each item. I can't see us changing that "up front" at this point, but - maybe. Let's see how artists react to the proposal, so here it is:

You offer your decks for $X amount. If someone gets 6 decks, it's $X - 10% times 6 to 11. If someone gets a brick or more, it's $X - 15% per deck, and beyond that I suppose there should be even more discounts, but for now let's leave it there for simplicity.

[Sher]

Well, to be honest and after reviewing it with my chief financial adviser (she's sitting here beside me) here's the plan: first of all - we have to be very careful with the model that it's a retail store. It's not! It's a CrowdFunding platform where people can speculate (and yes, that is the correct word) with their wallets on which decks will be the best value for their money, and indeed pick and choose amongst the awards that are offered by every project's campaign by CL clients.

The rub is moving from the CrowdFunding paradigm over to the model where we're using what amounts to a shopping cart for each individual campaign, and letting people set limits on the number of each item available to one account, some being "1 per customer", some being "2 per person" as the example above, and some being "All you want!", basically. If someone wants to buy 4 bricks from one project and they have the resources to do so, why should or would we limit that? I see no good reason.

By modeling it after an online store, I meant the general code used for choosing items and putting them into shopping carts and such, like BackerKit. But to be honest, I always had a problem with the thought that "Kickstarter is not a store!" kind of thing, especially for playing cards. The way I see it, it definitely is a store, of sorts. The amount you pledge/pay is based on the price of the item. For example - if you want a special LE deck, which is $25, you will pledge $25. KS is promoting this thought that the focus of your pledge is helping the creator realize his dream and that the rewards are a bonus. However, do you think that some people would pledge $25 if the LE deck wasn't an incentive? Probably not. Most people focus on the potential item they could get for the money they give. To put it bluntly, most people on KS pledge because they want a specific item. They're not throwing out large amounts of money purely out of the goodness of their heart so they could see the creator succeed. They want something in return, of course. I feel like the "KS is not a a store!" argument is more so they can't be held accountable for rogue creators who fail to fulfill. Since CardLauncher guarantees fulfillment, I don't think there's a problem with being some sort of crowdfunding/online store hybrid.

Regarding the limit... I think TGUnitedCardists was referring to putting a limit specifically on LE decks. I mean, someone wanting 4 bricks of a deck is certainly welcome... but on something that has a limited 1000 or even 500 print run, it has been a common practice to put in some sort of limit so everyone has a better chance at grabbing an LE.

EDIT: Regarding the bulk discounts... I didn't mean for it to be standardized. I was thinking the percent discount could be a variable that the project creator could decide on, so it would be different for every project depending on the designer's decision. I suppose that's making things complicated and I'm getting a little too ahead of myself.

[Norbie]

RE: Shipping From Asia First.

Want to be fair? We international customers always end up screwed because of shipping price, and
waiting period for our items to arrive.

Why can't we have at least this advantage in regards to getting our shipments first when our shipping costs are almost double, and sometimes more when Custom taxes are applied?

Want to be fair? How about for a change we play with the toys first?

[Mike Ratledge]

By modeling it after an online store, I meant the general code used for choosing items and putting them into shopping carts and such, like BackerKit. But to be honest, I always had a problem with the thought that "Kickstarter is not a store!" kind of thing, especially for playing cards. The way I see it, it definitely is a store, of sorts. The amount you pledge/pay is based on the price of the item. For example - if you want a special LE deck, which is $25, you will pledge $25. KS is promoting this thought that the focus of your pledge is helping the creator realize his dream and that the rewards are a bonus. However, do you think that some people would pledge $25 if the LE deck wasn't an incentive? Probably not. Most people focus on the potential item they could get for the money they give. To put it bluntly, most people on KS pledge because they want a specific item. They're not throwing out large amounts of money purely out of the goodness of their heart so they could see the creator succeed. They want something in return, of course. I feel like the "KS is not a a store!" argument is more so they can't be held accountable for rogue creators who fail to fulfill. Since CardLauncher guarantees fulfillment, I don't think there's a problem with being some sort of crowdfunding/online store hybrid.

Regarding the limit... I think TGUnitedCardists was referring to putting a limit specifically on LE decks. I mean, someone wanting 4 bricks of a deck is certainly welcome... but on something that has a limited 1000 or even 500 print run, it has been a common practice to put in some sort of limit so everyone has a better chance at grabbing an LE.

EDIT: Regarding the bulk discounts... I didn't mean for it to be standardized. I was thinking the percent discount could be a variable that the project creator could decide on, so it would be different for every project depending on the designer's decision. I suppose that's making things complicated and I'm getting a little too ahead of myself.

I agree, Sher - and the fact is that with "Guaranteed Delivery" we're going to offer I suppose it more-or-less IS a store, whether or not that's the way we've traditionally looked at CrowdFunding in the past. We're definitely going to blur that line, anyway! I like the idea of making it more-or-less like a shopping cart and that also supports the model we want to use, for certain - because it gives us that ability to compute the shipping precisely down to the gram (or close).

I like the idea of blending the shopping cart into the CrowdFunding model, it's a great plan, and I know you're always thinking, or you wouldn't be the one person with the administrative keys to CardLauncher without investing money in it - that's why I picked you. We're going to get big quickly, that's almost a foregone conclusion. Hopefully there won't be too many growing pains, because I can already foresee us having a pretty big staff of people behind the scenes to effectively manage this monster I created. You'll be the one picking them along with myself and Donna (my wife) and the partners. That's how much faith I have in you - basically unlimited. Like I've said before - you go girl! Every time you do something that impresses me - that's doing something!

[Mike Ratledge]

RE: Shipping From Asia First.

Want to be fair? We international customers always end up screwed because of shipping price, and waiting period for our items to arrive.

Why can't we have at least this advantage in regards to getting our shipments first when our shipping costs are almost double, and sometimes more when Custom taxes are applied?

Want to be fair? How about for a change we play with the toys first?

Well, I see that point as well, Norbie. I agree that it wouldn't hurt to let that happen, and perhaps we'll do exactly that.

[Norbie]

RE: Shipping From Asia First.

Want to be fair? We international customers always end up screwed because of shipping price, and waiting period for our items to arrive.

Why can't we have at least this advantage in regards to getting our shipments first when our shipping costs are almost double, and sometimes more when Custom taxes are applied?

Want to be fair? How about for a change we play with the toys first?

Well, I see that point as well, Norbie. I agree that it wouldn't hurt to let that happen, and perhaps we'll do exactly that.

Which ever way you decide to go ill still get the decks that I'll like.

Just wondering, as a man on the "inside", do you know what percentage of customers are International? Obviously just generally speaking.

[Mike Ratledge]

RE: Shipping From Asia First.

Want to be fair? We international customers always end up screwed because of shipping price, and waiting period for our items to arrive.

Why can't we have at least this advantage in regards to getting our shipments first when our shipping costs are almost double, and sometimes more when Custom taxes are applied?

Want to be fair? How about for a change we play with the toys first?

Well, I see that point as well, Norbie. I agree that it wouldn't hurt to let that happen, and perhaps we'll do exactly that.

Which ever way you decide to go ill still get the decks that I'll like.

Just wondering, as a man on the "inside", do you know what percentage of customers are International? Obviously just generally speaking.

Before I answer that question, let me take a look at Grotesque (UC2014 Annual Deck) and how that breaks out. (pondering the question . . .)

Looking over it quickly, I'd have to say it's about 20% overall, mostly the smallish pledges, but overall around 15% of the brick or larger pledges and for the smaller pledges it's around 22-23% just looking at the raw numbers without trying to calculate the actual amount -vs- the pledge tiers. That's just a quick analysis, certainly not scientific.

[Mike Ratledge]

OK, as of 4PM EDT/NYC time I now have the 'keys' to the CardLauncher.com 'sandbox', setup on the software vendor's website. "Sandbox" means it's not branded and has no logos yet, but is ready for initial testing. We need people that pay attention to detail that are willing to have a pen and paper (or "NotePad") ready to make notes on exactly what problems you find, and test things thoroughly until we beat the bugs out of the system. Please be aware that until the customization and branding is done, not everything will work like it will in the final version. It's basically a "white label" CrowdFunding portal setup for initial testing, and in no way reflect the look and feel of the final version. These "pre-beta" testers will be hand selected from those of you that apply - no more than 50 people maximum. I would like to use everybody that want to do this, but for practical reasons I can't.

If you want to pre-beta test, please send me email to mratledge@aol.com, and do NOT send me a PM here on UC. To be fair, I want to minimize all further use of UC for CL things, and try my best to separate those two things, although of course I can never totally do so.

I will respond with the URL/link to the existing "sandbox" version of the software portal for crowdfunding, and it is raw and nowhere near what we will have in 10 days to 2 weeks when we have the beta version ready. Before we test any users ("backers") I am having three of the launch partners create 'dummy' projects on the sandbox for us to use during sandbox testing and beta testing. Once that is done I will choose a group of 50 people to beta test, and those people will get a look at the raw form of a CrowdEngine (the name of the software vendor I chose) portal. As I noted, in about ten days to 2 weeks, we will shift into the beta testing phase and that will be open to anyone that want to test.

Again, this is only for the hearty code hackers that want to take a whack at helping us flesh out the code and stomp out all of the bugs. As I noted, once we have the beta version with branding and customization for our specific purpose: playing card decks - it will be 'open season' and I will give out the URL/link here for anyone that wants to help.

[Mike Ratledge]

Someone asked in the "Origins" decks thread about how the "US$ funding and US Banks for all funding" part of CardLauncher, so here we go:

No, CardLauncher doesn't need to setup individual bank accounts for clients, all of them will be funded into a single bucket that is separate from the company account and then they get paid out of it 15 days after their campaign completes - if it is successful, of course. I'm going to make up a couple of dummy invoices to show clients what that looks like, because they will be charged 5% off the top for our fees, PayPal will charge them an average of 4% for processing payments, and part of that 91% will be placed in escrow - the total for the fulfillment computed by the number of backers times the average fulfillment cost for the service they select - KWF, GW or LMM - and we're hoping we'll have Quantium delivering all overseas shipments, plus the total for production (+10% for USPCC projects because they ALWAYS go over 10%) computed by the final quote near the very end or between funding + 5% added production costs to eliminate any problems with people monkeying with the numbers, and keep people from understating their costs on purpose and the end of that 15-day period when they are used to getting their money. Anything beyond that is their money at that point. The company will pay for production from whoever they choose for that, and when the decks are ready, we'll pay for fulfillment by whomever they select (and/or Quantium - if that works out) and anything that is left over will be refunded.

Sample "Bicycle" brand (USPCC) successfully funded project invoice for clients

Sample_Bicycle_USPCC_Funding_invoice-sample.pdf

(171.46 KiB) Downloaded 85 times

Sample Expert PCC successfully funded project invoice for clients

Sample_Expert_PCC_Funding_invoice-sample.pdf

(163.28 KiB) Downloaded 93 times

I understand this will look 'funny' at first, but it reflects real-world pricing, the USPCC "Bicycle" brand quote is 25% more than the Expert PCC quote, and the overage of 10% on top is required, because they REQUIRE you to accept that amount. If they don't go over (I've never heard of a single project where they did not), then you get that back once the production costs are paid. Also, that 5% fee for potential costs overruns are necessary until we fine-tune the process and we hope that amount can come down to more like 2% to 3% of the costs, and maybe even less. It will be a learning process. The next is that one the Expert project for the same amount of funding, you're "PayOut" after 15 days is $17K+ and for USPCC "Bicycle" Brand, it's only $11K+ - but that's real world. Costs for Expert quote are $16K, for Bicycle/USPCC they are $20K, that's 25% - a very realistic number at this time. Of course these are estimates, and the actual quoted amount (and that's the final quote, received during the 15 days after the campaign when the artist has modified the expectations and therefore the costs) will be used in reality, and these are just meant as examples, trying to simulate actual amounts as best we can at this time.

[montecarlojoe]

Couple of quick comments;

Paypay shouldnt need to be estimated at that point - paypal will have taken any fees before they go into the pot.
Technically shouldn't the final "Amount Due" be Amount in Credit" as it is the creator's money that CL/CW hold?

Otherwise seems simple enough.

Probably also worth mentioning that any unused overage would be returned?

[Mike Ratledge]

True, it's about 91% of funding left after 5% fee from CL and close enough to 4% "discount" by whoever processes the card, be it PayPal, Amazon Payments (not available) or Stripe using our company credit card swiper. I would rather not us process cards, though. It goes without saying that excess goes back to the client, sorry. I was long winded enough.

[WillHart CthulhuWho1]

Here's a dirty word that I'd like to see discussed a bit more: Profit.

In all of these discussions, I've read about how the playing card companies will profit from getting the printing business, how the founders of Card Launcher will profit from fees charged, how the approved fulfillment companies will profit from handling the packages, how PayPal will profit from handling the money, how the pledgers will profit from lower prices passed along to them, and how the deck creators will "profit" from getting more decks out to the pledgers.

But here's the dirty word part...

What money does the artistic creator of a deck of cards stand to make out of all of this, when it seems to be a terrible thing for the artists to have any kind of "profit" as a motive for their efforts; while everyone else is collecting all they can from the project?

Does a card deck creator have a right to make something for their time and effort?

And while people are saying "hang on to at least 51% ownership of Card Launcher," can you imagine the response if a card deck creator said they also wanted to hang on to 51% of the money brought in from their cards?

What percentage of the money pledged in the Card Launcher projects will end up in the hands of the project creator?

What do most people think deck creators deserve for their work?

And why do people hate the idea of artists making a "profit?"

I hate feeling guilty for the fact that when I publicly reveal my first (of three) deck project, I'll be setting the goal at a level that will cover all costs, plus will include a, (Dare I say it?) taxable "Profit" for my efforts (including my wife and I doing our own fulfillment instead of paying $3 per deck for someone else to do it); and enough incentive to bring out the other decks. Just for the record, I'm currently planning a $16K goal for my first Bicycle-branded deck; so everyone knows where that will be printed...

Why would I put all of my time and effort into something, just so everybody else can "Profit" from my efforts, but not me?

O.K.

I'm climbing off the soap-box now (Shows my age, doesn't it?)

Will Hart

Fullerton, California

[WillHart CthulhuWho1]

In re-reading everything posted here so far, it would appear that Card Launcher will only be taking projects that will use one of the approved Fulfillment centers, rather than being self-fulfilled; and I understand how that will be part of the guaranteed process. So the discounts for using Card Launcher vs doing the fulfillment myself will be a consideration in my CL vs KS choice.

When you are retired, and have every day available to work on projects, it seems silly to pay someone else to do the work for you...

I also couldn't find any details on how the left-over decks would be handled after all pledges had been fulfilled. Are they shipped (for a fee?) to the creator? Are they stored for a fee by the fulfillment center? Every creator wants a certain quantity for themselves and future sales, so this is an important part of the process and costs comparison too.

I know that if I do my own fulfillment, the cost of all of the decks being printed and shipped to me is included in the price quoted and charged by the printing company I choose to work with; but I have no idea how most fulfillment companies handle the project overages in card decks they are left with.

Mike, please lay out some guidelines for this area a.s.a.p. for those of us looking at all aspects of deck creation.

Thanks for reading this!

Will Hart
Fullerton, California

[WillHart CthulhuWho1]

Just had a discussion with my Boss (aka my Wife), and she pointed out that when I have been getting information on fulfillment centers in the past, they have been willing to give a price per deck quote; but actually postage fees were charged on top of their handling and packaging services.

So it would end up being something like $3 per deck, plus postage costs.

Which is why I'm wondering how these total fulfillment prices are figured into your sample pdf files.

Are the fulfillment prices showing everything: packaging, labeling, postage, and shipping in total; or are there separate postage and postage services (Stamps.com, Endicia, etc.), packaging materials, and shipping fees that need to be accounted for.

Just asking for clarity and food for thought...

Will Hart
Fullerton, California

ps
Three of my messages in a row makes me feel like I'm talking to myself!

[rjtomlinson1977]

Just had a discussion with my Boss (aka my Wife), and she pointed out that when I have been getting information on fulfillment centers in the past, they have been willing to give a price per deck quote; but actually postage fees were charged on top of their handling and packaging services.

So it would end up being something like $3 per deck, plus postage costs.

Which is why I'm wondering how these total fulfillment prices are figured into your sample pdf files.

Are the fulfillment prices showing everything: packaging, labeling, postage, and shipping in total; or are there separate postage and postage services (Stamps.com, Endicia, etc.), packaging materials, and shipping fees that need to be accounted for.

Just asking for clarity and food for thought...

Will Hart
Fullerton, California

ps
Three of my messages in a row makes me feel like I'm talking to myself!

I haven't worked with any fulfillment centers so I can't give you any specifics about that. I have glanced at pricing... and I like you find it pricey for what it is. From my understanding you're going to pay a set-up fee plus $3 for packaging and handling each package plus the actual cost of postage. All in all I would assume to mail 1 deck of cards could cost $6 going that route... $3 for the handling (which would include the packaging supplies) plus $3 for postage (depending on what class postage you send it). I have fulfilled all my card projects just fine myself. Probably the more you send in one single package... then fulfillment centers might be worth it.

[volantangel]

Ok so let me clarify a couple of things for you Will.

Profit: sure you can set the goal yourself. But would you factor in an additional 50% as a reserve for your own "profit" in your goal ? I think not, simply because of all the work you have put into the project, being able to produce your deck is the first priority. The goal is set as the minimum needed to cover the costs of a minimum run plus shipping. Anything above your goal, I'm guessing less perhaps 40-50% is pure profit on your part. And this isn't accounting for the extra decks made for resale post project.

Fulfillment: CL would not enforce a fulfillment center, basically there are many whether forced by the circumstances or simply do not have the time or find it worth it will use these fulfillment houses, if you can ship the decks out yourself please by all means go ahead.

[Mike Ratledge]

Typically from the decks that I have been close to that used USPCC to print their decks they made about 33% of the total on profits. I can see that charging the same prices for an Expert PCC made deck might be close to 50%, but I would certainly rather see that be passed along to the backers!

The fact is that by escrow of funds in effect CardLauncher becomes the production and fulfillment payer and we pass along the savings for the volume to every project, so I could see that it might be more like 40% for a well run campaign.

That being said, I took delivery of the sandbox version of CL yesterday, and we had training for admins (myself, Sher & my wife) today. We already did a lot of text customization and the actual branding, logos and customization of the code well be done in the next ten days to two weeks at which point we will be ready to beta test.

Forwarding of the website was turned off this evening and replaced with an e-address collection form by MailChimp - our email partner. Anyone here will know, I feel sure, but if you wish you can sign up for 2 to 3 days advanced notice there.

[WillHart CthulhuWho1]

Thanks to the responses I've received so far, I very much look forward to seeing Card Launcher up and running; and once I see the discounted deals for the fulfillment centers (including the postage costs info), I'll consider not only using one of them, but I may also change my plans for three separate deck releases, and instead make the second and third decks stretch goals right behind the first deck.

I'll run some details past the UC group-mind once I'm much closer to submitting for USPCC approval.

Will Hart
Fullerton, California

[nECr0MaNCeD]

Will;
I just wanted to say my peace on the topic of profit and creators/designers. I do not consider the word profit dirty at all. Anyone who puts that kind of work into something has every right to expect to profit from it. I am a simple computer tech so I leave the subject of amounts to greater minds.

To give a good example and analogy. I have been building computers for the better part of two decades. I have honed that skill to the point where I consider my builds my art. ( If anyone is geeky enough to be curious I can post pics.) I sell the occasional custom gaming rig/server or workstation. Anyone who has built a computer will know that spending 6-15 hours on a single build is a lot. Why so long? An attention to detail that sets my work apart like none other. (Not conceit, just fierce pride!) While it is enormously fulfilling to see the happy faces of the buyer when I deliver their new machine, I still need to pay the bills and justify the time I spend doing this.
Anything you create is a lot more than just time and work. It is the herculean task of coaxing a part of yourself into the world and shaping it into something truly unique that will make others happy.

"ars gratia artis....."

“Art is not what you see, but what you make others see....”

“I paint for myself. I don't know how to do anything else, anyway. Also I have to earn my living, and occupy myself.” Francis Bacon

[Sher]

I can see why some creators would like to do the fulfillment on their own. It may cost less. With CardLauncher, creators will have the option to do fulfillment themselves but getting approval to do this would come at a case-by-case basis. Most creators who can prove that they have done fulfillment before (whether it be shipping out decks or something else), will be allowed to do their own fulfillment, but new artists who do not have a proven track record for fulfillment are more of a risk and so it would be highly recommended for them to use a fulfillment center rather than tackling fulfillment on their own.

[Lotrek]

It definitely costs less to pack and send the rewards by yourself instead of having a fulfillment center to do it for you. But wait! How much does a designer's time spent on packaging cost? I'm afraid more than the fulfillment' center's rates.

And don't forget the cost of buying packaging material which a fulfillment center buys in huge quantities, being able to keep rates as low as possible.

[Mike Ratledge]

I can see why some creators would like to do the fulfillment on their own. It may cost less. With CardLauncher, creators will have the option to do fulfillment themselves but getting approval to do this would come at a case-by-case basis. Most creators who can prove that they have done fulfillment before (whether it be shipping out decks or something else), will be allowed to do their own fulfillment, but new artists who do not have a proven track record for fulfillment are more of a risk and so it would be highly recommended for them to use a fulfillment center rather than tackling fulfillment on their own.

Well, the way I worded it (and I just did it a few hours ago, so you couldn't have seen it yet) was that they "have to have a proven track records of self-fulfillment and that a single project was not a 'track record'", and also that our "Guaranteed Rewards Delivery"™ logo could not be used for self-fulfilled projects. I'm going to register that trademark, but for now I'll hold onto my almost $500 that the USP&TO charges you to do that: in effect any slogan you create and use is trademarked just like you don't have to submit copyrights any more to put "Copyright (c) 2014" on everything you create, be it graphics or text - per the DMCA it's already copyrighted.

The latest is that at least a couple of non-US people have asked if we could do shipment consolidation. Now, I'm just go ahead and say it's too late to do it by the time that we open, but - depending on how many people outside the US want it, I'd love to be able to do it - within reason, and within the limitation that almost everybody will be using fulfillment centers and not always the same one. My thoughts were to allow "zone 2 (Canada/Mexico) and further (everywhere else) users to set a value from 30-60 (maybe more?) that's a sliding window number of dates to hold their shipment before they get shipped. The clock would start ticking the day the first project was successfully funded. Then after 'xx' days they would get shipped along with anything else that came into that specific fulfillment center and each would be keeping the same clock, because the "cart" system we're going to have to allow you to pick multiple rewards as well as multiples of any reward that allows it would know when the clock was running, and present everything including what you already funded (locked, so you can't change that part) and let you add more to that shipment, and only charge you what it costs to ship the extra weight. The thing is that every shipment does have a fixed cost per shipment, and that's where you can save. Let's say you picked "60" and over those 60 days 7 projects funded, 3 at one center, 2 at each of the others. You'd pay 3 shipping charges and not 7. Not great, but certainly better. The system tracks that number per user (the 'clock') and then the clock expires your 'cart' is dumped and you start over - the next time a project you're backing is funded. It's not perfect but we expect using our advanced production tracker to be able to better 'homogenize' the time it takes to produce decks, so hopefully it will at least roughly coincide with the timing at the fulfillment centers - albeit some 2 to 3 months later. I'm just throwing this out there, it's my first cut at it, and as always I'm more than willing to listen and react to anything anyone has to add. In fact, would people in the states use it, also? I'm thinking not, but I'm not everyone. If you limited things to one shipment per month or 6 per year (those 30-60 days limits) you would save money even here in the states, it's just going to be a logistical nightmare and I haven't heard back from the fulfillment centers yet - it just may be truly unrealistic expectation on my part unless we took over the fulfillment entirely including the delivery of shipping requests instead of the projects doing it. I don't know - just thinking out loud as I'm prone to do.

What's everybody think about this one? Reasonable? Would you use it if it's available? (overseas or even in the 'states')

Also, as of today we're doing VERY limited open testing - pre-beta testing. The site is in a very raw "sandbox" mode, no custom skin, no customizations yet, no branding or partner logos, etc. We should have the beta skin in a few days, maybe a week: http://card.crowdengine.com

You can sign up, and when you register it boots you off so you can do the e-address verification which is required before you can log in. Once inside, you can browse around the limited amount of projects that are already there, and also please have a pen and paper handy, or run notepad.exe so you can take notes about anything that you see that doesn't work or doesn't work as expected.

[Cbkimble]

So, if I'm understanding correctly, how would one choose to have packages shipped together? How would that affect project funding? Seems like a lot of variables to work out and something will ultimately blow up in your face.

[Sher]

How would that affect project funding?

I'm particularly concerned about this. Creators take this into account when they are deciding on a goal, so combining shipments from multiple projects will definitely mess this all up. If a backer gets charged only once for shipping items from three different projects, which project gets charged for that shipment? Will it be divided equally between those projects? That may not be fair if the bulk of the shipment is coming from one project, but it's also not fair to charge just one project with the shipping cost. Also, since we're holding shipment funds in escrow, it might take a significantly longer time for us to give back funds leftover (if there are any) to creators, since some items from that campaign not be fulfilled until the end of the 60 day window that the backer indicated.

I definitely think this combined shipment issue be addressed later, when we've got all our other ducks in a row.

[lolo]

Hello UnitedCardists,

I was away since a long time so i don't know if you have talked about following theme :

If you want to keep UnitedCardists independent from CardLauncher, is it a good idea to open the support forum here at UnitedCardists and not at CardLauncher.com ?

I know it's easier, but in my humble opinion, you are about to "mix" the two sites too much...

And sorry if you have talked about this theme already...

[dazzleguts]

Haven't been able to be here much myself in the last few days but I'd have to agree with lolo on this.

[volantangel]

I think this is a temporal measure, the website as of now has no forum capabilities. Think of it more as a topic for a upcoming cardpage =)

[Thirdway Industries]

Can I use a prepaid US credit card (like Payoneer) for open a project on CardLauncher instead of an US Bank account?

[Strag]

One thing to consider for us internationals; PayPal can charge anywhere from 3 to 4.5% currency conversion ON TOP of the fees they already charge. This "hidden" cost would mean that I would not be happy using PayPal as a sole provider. Amazon does not charge me these fees.