Draplin Design Co. "Thick Lines Edition" - from Deckstarter

[Sher]

the NERVE they had to call the Millman deck a masterpiece)

This. So like I said, these two designers are great designers and they've won awards and worked for big companies, but they're not necessarily great deck designers. I just wish they looked more into the world of custom playing cards before creating their design, especially Debbie Millman (since Draplin's design is decent, but not worth $25 in my opinion). The way D&D is marketing this really does seem like an insult to card collectors. I know target audience for these decks are probably the fans of either Draplin or Millman, and they'd probably fall for all that hype about it being a masterpiece and all, but at the same time the website is centered on decks of playing cards, so it's fair to say that D&D probably had the card collecting community in mind, too. Also, to those new to the world of custom playing cards, I wouldn't want them to think the Millman deck is a good representative of a custom deck, just because D&D called it a "masterpiece."

[MagikFingerz]

I type "D$D" with a dollar sign for a reason. They've made it clear again and again that their main focus is to make money, with their numerous "collector's bricks", endless S&M editions and overpriced nailclippers/hand lotion etc.

Like someone else said, I don't hate them but I hate their business tactics.

[sinjin7]

I could care less about D&D and haven't been collecting cards long enough to understand why the card community as a whole seems to despise these guys with a passion.... A far as I can tell, it's because they charge loads of money for things and people think they are just straight up d-bags.

I dont despise D$D, i simply dont like the way they conduct their business.

This is based on the following points:
1. The constant recolours (S&M + their 10000 reprints anyone? Dont worry E is up there on this point)
2. The broken promises (End of S&M series with the V7, then comes S&M Gold, ok you are gonna say these were not sold, buts its S&M no?)
3. The disappointments (October & HMNIM deck with their repeated courts)
4. The lack of originality (Based on points 1 & 3)
5. The looking down on the industry (The nerve they had to give out 3000 of these decks and charge collectors $25 a deck and pose it as a Rare Edition, and the NERVE they had to call the Millman deck a masterpiece)
6. The dishonesty (Deckstarter is not a crowdfunding project, and they are simply doing this to jump on the bandwagon)

Ok after typing everything, maybe i do despise them a little, maybe a little more than a little

But thats just my opinion, you can love them, ill still love you

That is an impressive and accurate list that Volantangel provided above. For me, D$D's true colors showed way before they ever produced any custom decks. Back when they finished up Trilogy, they entered into an agreement with Brad Christian where Ellusionist would have exclusive rights to sell Trilogy and E promoted Trilogy pretty heavily for the twins. The Bucks then turned around and gave out rights to sell Trilogy to other vendors (with rates that allowed them to undercut E) and basically stabbed E in the back. Brad was so livid at the time, he banned people from even mentioning Trilogy or D$D on his forum for a while. I don't think he made peace with the twins until E produced their Vintage 1800 decks years later.

I don't care that D$D are pretentious twins who sell grossly over-priced products, its their business and they can do whatever they want. But there is a valid reason for the near universal distaste for D$D (the hard-core fanboys prevent it from being a completely universal distaste). Like MagikFingerz said, its their lack of transparency and deceitful marketing and business practices just to make a quick buck (pardon the pun). Don't tell us you're NEVER going to reprint S&M and then turn around and reprint 60,000 decks.

If I tell someone, "Hey, there's a company out there who will be deceitful about the alleged "rarity" of their products, renege on agreements you thought you had with them, and outright lie to you. Would you ever do business with them? Would you trust them with your money?" I think the answer for most reasonable people should be emphatically, "NO!" Yet, just because D$D came out with a pretty deck of cards (S&M), fanboys will blindly overlook, excuse, or rationalize all this dishonesty. Personally, I can't support, enrich, and enable such liars - I don't care how great or beautiful their next deck may be. This is why I will not support Deckstarter. I'm not so obsessed with card collecting that I would whore myself out in this way.

To the fans of D$D here on UC (Mirror, Magic Orthodoxy, Sher and others), I am not making a personal attack on you with my statements above, everyone has the freedom of choice to support whoever they want without being personally attacked for it. These are just my personal opinions. I'm just answering decibelhz's question about why D$D are so despised. Its really a shame because I used to look up to the Bucks for their cardistry skills, now all you get from them is obnoxious elitism and exploitation of their fan base just to make money. I also want to make clear that most people here are not attacking Draplin or Millman as artists or people, but rather are pointing out that it is a mistake to get involved with anything related to D$D.

[Mike Ratledge]

Oh, how I wish I could detail all I know behind the scenes on this, and just how close certain really big people that we universally love here came to falling into the trap they weaved. Let's just say if another day or two hadn't delayed them, someone we truly love would have been ensnared in this BS, and it would have sullied their reputation forever - in spite of the fact that they have run several terrific and successful campaigns and consistently met or exceeded their delivery expectations. That one mistake could have cost them a lot of "street cred" simply because the Buck twins were promising EVERYBODY the world with this DeckStarter fiasco. At this point it's gone down in flames in my mind (and many other people's) whether or not they can pull of a successful follow-up for these two failed decks - even if one of them does 'fund'. It's typical smoke and mirrors - no pun intended - from them, they promised these two artists the world, and they delivered - as I have noted before - a steaming pile of crap. If you were sitting on the sidelines watching this first pair of decks wither and literally go up in smoke, would YOU risk putting your reputation on the line and trust them? I sure hope not, because they have proved once again that they can't be trusted, their word isn't worth a damn and that they will tell people absolutely anything to get them to do what benefits THEM the most. Do these two artists deserve a bit of pity - I think so. They were sold a line of crap from Dan & Dave, and they bought it - all the way (not) to the bank. They also gave away any chance of these two decks EVER being worth a cent, when they let the D$D boys give away 6000 decks total, 3000 of each. How can you possibly advertise "only 750 available" when you've already handed out 3000 each for free? That's just BS, plain and simple, and as I noted long ago the business model they are trying to use here just is not a sustainable paradigm - it's crap in every sense and from every angle.

If you're watching closely, the Millman deck just went up almost $750 in the past 24 hours. Looking a bit closer Justin Buck's pledge for it also went up from $50 to around $650 as well. Here comes the shady crap, right on cue - with about 5 days left to fund it's suddenly going to blossom and grow from a turd into a flower. Watch closely folks, it's going to go from 34 deck sold with 6 days left to miraculously funding - mark my words.

[badpete69]

And their site is still crap. I just sent an email to cancel my pledge as they still do not have that functionality on their site. Let's see if they respond

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

I can't believe none of the freebie decks are on eBay! That's the first thing I do when I come home from a convention - I sell off all of my free crap to the people who couldn't attend.

[Sher]

To the fans of D$D here on UC (Mirror, Magic Orthodoxy, Sher and others), I am not making a personal attack on you with my statements above, everyone has the freedom of choice to support whoever they want without being personally attacked for it.

Just to clarify, I'm neither a fan nor a hater of D&D. Did I come off that way? Lol. I do agree with many points Magic Orthodoxy made, but I'm not a fangirl.

[Mirror]

To the fans of D$D here on UC (Mirror, Magic Orthodoxy, Sher and others), I am not making a personal attack on you with my statements above, everyone has the freedom of choice to support whoever they want without being personally attacked for it.

Just to clarify, I'm neither a fan nor a hater of D&D. Did I come off that way? Lol. I do agree with many points Magic Orthodoxy made, but I'm not a fangirl.

Same here, I don't like everything they release (for example I didn't bother picking up the Fultons October or the HMNIM Deck). I'd rather see myself as a fan of Smoke & Mirrors than a fan of D&D in general. To get back to the topic of Deckstarter, I'm curious to see how this develops. I like the Design of the Draplin Deck, not the Millman Decfk though. I like typography but it's a part of Design that proves to be really difficult to transfer into the art of Playing Cards.

[Sher]

To the fans of D$D here on UC (Mirror, Magic Orthodoxy, Sher and others), I am not making a personal attack on you with my statements above, everyone has the freedom of choice to support whoever they want without being personally attacked for it.

Just to clarify, I'm neither a fan nor a hater of D&D. Did I come off that way? Lol. I do agree with many points Magic Orthodoxy made, but I'm not a fangirl.

Same here, I don't like everything they release (for example I didn't bother picking up the Fultons October or the HMNIM Deck). I'd rather see myself as a fan of Smoke & Mirrors than a fan of D&D in general. To get back to the topic of Deckstarter, I'm curious to see how this develops. I like the Design of the Draplin Deck, not the Millman Decfk though. I like typography but it's a part of Design that proves to be really difficult to transfer into the art of Playing Cards.

I also think that the Draplin design is better than the Millman design. The Black Book of Cards uses typography and I think it is executed very well.

[Mirror]

To the fans of D$D here on UC (Mirror, Magic Orthodoxy, Sher and others), I am not making a personal attack on you with my statements above, everyone has the freedom of choice to support whoever they want without being personally attacked for it.

Just to clarify, I'm neither a fan nor a hater of D&D. Did I come off that way? Lol. I do agree with many points Magic Orthodoxy made, but I'm not a fangirl.

Same here, I don't like everything they release (for example I didn't bother picking up the Fultons October or the HMNIM Deck). I'd rather see myself as a fan of Smoke & Mirrors than a fan of D&D in general. To get back to the topic of Deckstarter, I'm curious to see how this develops. I like the Design of the Draplin Deck, not the Millman Decfk though. I like typography but it's a part of Design that proves to be really difficult to transfer into the art of Playing Cards.

I also think that the Draplin design is better than the Millman design. The Black Book of Cards uses typography and I think it is executed very well.

Sure, it's possible but it's not as easy as putting text on the back design and not even thinking about mirroring it. The Black Book of Cards had lots of work and thought put into it. I won't say that Debbie Millman didn't put any effort in her deck because I don't know and I don't want to make assumptions, but it is a fact that her design just isn't suited for a deck of playing cards (not sure why nobody told her that though). The Thick Lines Deck is nice, it has a two way back design and is overall perfectly usable. Tastes may vary but I'm in for one or two, I'll wait for resellers though.

[rousselle]

I, likewise, will wait for resellers for the Thick Lines deck.

[wwpierce]

You know what else is great about this campaign and the Millman deck..

"Produced exclusively for HOW Design Live in Boston, Massachusetts. This is our first official set of playing cards and they are very limited. We have just 750 sets to offer you."

Now both campaigns are worded the same.. 750 to offer..

Here is how both are set up (total # of decks available per tier):
1 deck option- 650 available
3 deck option- 150 available
uncut with deck- 50 available
6 decks- 300 available
retail 36 deck- 180 available

That is a grand total of: 1,330 decks for a "very limited" offer of 750...

ACT NOW!!! Before it's too late!!!

[Mike Ratledge]

You know what else is great about this campaign and the Millman deck..

"Produced exclusively for HOW Design Live in Boston, Massachusetts. This is our first official set of playing cards and they are very limited. We have just 750 sets to offer you."

Now both campaigns are worded the same.. 750 to offer..

Here is how both are set up (total # of decks available per tier):
1 deck option- 650 available
3 deck option- 150 available
uncut with deck- 50 available
6 decks- 300 available
retail 36 deck- 180 available

That is a grand total of: 1,330 decks for a "very limited" offer of 750...

ACT NOW!!! Before it's too late!!!

And of course in this context (on Deckstarter) they DON'T mention that they already gave away 3000 of these decks - for free. That makes sense now, I previously stated that it had to be a 5000 deck run, and there we go, 4,330 accounted for now, with 670 "in reserve" for the future to use for promotions. "We only offer 750", but for some reason you can BUY 1330 of them, odd, isn't it?

[PDXPLAYINGCARDS]

This deck just past the funding mark with $10,018 from 205 backers ($575 of that coming from "Art of Play" )

[rjtomlinson1977]

I wonder how well these decks would have done on Kickstarter opposed to the dickstarter site?

[snsdmonkey]

I wonder how well these decks would have done on Kickstarter opposed to the dickstarter site?

I would think a little better wouldn't you? Larger audience, no bad reputation of D&D and probably a lower price as well.

[Mike Ratledge]

I wonder how well these decks would have done on Kickstarter opposed to the dickstarter site?

I would think a little better wouldn't you? Larger audience, no bad reputation of D&D and probably a lower price as well.

No doubt that they would have bombed, because at $12-$13 per deck (and they are including the shipping in the pledged total, inflating the amount by 20%), too.

With that I'm going to have to curtail my observations about this mess: (copied from the "Millman" deck discussion)

Well, folks - I suppose it's time for me to make a little (?) public announcement and bow out of discussion of the DeckStarter.com website for legal reasons. Let's just say that I think big, and I don't want to get caught up in the BS. Give me a little while and I'll disclose exactly what I'm talking about.

I said from the very beginning that this was going to be a fiasco, and the D$D had served up a steaming pile of pooh. I couldn't have been more correct!

[snsdmonkey]

I wonder how well these decks would have done on Kickstarter opposed to the dickstarter site?

I would think a little better wouldn't you? Larger audience, no bad reputation of D&D and probably a lower price as well.

No doubt that they would have bombed, because at $12-$13 per deck (and they are including the shipping in the pledged total, inflating the amount by 20%), too.

With that I'm going to have to curtail my observations about this mess: (copied from the "Millman" deck discussion)

Well, folks - I suppose it's time for me to make a little (?) public announcement and bow out of discussion of the DeckStarter.com website for legal reasons. Let's just say that I think big, and I don't want to get caught up in the BS. Give me a little while and I'll disclose exactly what I'm talking about.

I said from the very beginning that this was going to be a fiasco, and the D$D had served up a steaming pile of pooh. I couldn't have been more correct!

The Millman definitely would have bombed but I think the Draplin definitely would have had legs on Kickstarter. Don't forget that both are 'artists' and would have stretch goals and probably stuff like art prints and unique work to get them over the line.

[Sher]

Those will be their June or July "Deck of the Month Club" deck. Can't waste them, that would be stupid.

Someone just posted on Facebook that D&D's Deck of the Month for June is this deck.

[volantangel]

Those will be their June or July "Deck of the Month Club" deck. Can't waste them, that would be stupid.

Someone just posted on Facebook that D&D's Deck of the Month for June is this deck.

Well what did i tell you..

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

V-Angel you should be a mentalist!

[volantangel]

V-Angel you should be a mentalist!

Haha I think I'm more mental than mentalist..

[nECr0MaNCeD]

V-Angel you should be a mentalist!

Haha I think I'm more mental than mentalist..

Queue awkward silence.......

[PDXPLAYINGCARDS]

Has anybody who helped "fund" this deck received a shipping notification? They said it was ship once the goal was met
(which didn't happen) and then I got an email that said they would send a shipping notification within a week (which didn't happen).

[Strag]

Has anybody who helped "fund" this deck received a shipping notification? They said it was ship once the goal was met
(which didn't happen) and then I got an email that said they would send a shipping notification within a week (which didn't happen).

Pretty sure not many here "funded" this "project"

[iakona]

no shipping notice, but i DID get a deck as part of the d&d deck of the month club.. just the deck, not the fancy box they show on the deckstarter pages.

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

You can always buy one on ebay...

http://tinyurl.com/pzp8v7w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OUCH! does someone want to tell this guy he might have a small typo in his listing? 750?

[IAmTheChin]

the NERVE they had to call the Millman deck a masterpiece)

This. So like I said, these two designers are great designers and they've won awards and worked for big companies, but they're not necessarily great deck designers. I just wish they looked more into the world of custom playing cards before creating their design, especially Debbie Millman (since Draplin's design is decent, but not worth $25 in my opinion). The way D&D is marketing this really does seem like an insult to card collectors. I know target audience for these decks are probably the fans of either Draplin or Millman, and they'd probably fall for all that hype about it being a masterpiece and all, but at the same time the website is centered on decks of playing cards, so it's fair to say that D&D probably had the card collecting community in mind, too. Also, to those new to the world of custom playing cards, I wouldn't want them to think the Millman deck is a good representative of a custom deck, just because D&D called it a "masterpiece."

I agree with the above. There's a lot of humbug around Deckstarter and I figured I'd give my 2 cents on what probably happened with this. I'm actually a big fan of Debbie Millman. In the world of branding (something I nerd out over) she's at the top and actually one of my heroes believe it or not. I'm also a big package design fanatic that follows the Dieline daily. So when I heard about Deckstarter I got psyched. But then we got what showed up.

Debbie and the Dieline are in the same realm as far as design goes and my guess is that they were approached by D&D. I imagine it wasn't that hard to start up the site and that they were given "guidance" by D&D through launch. The unfortunate thing is that they probably listened to that guidance. Debbie was given a chance to do some art which was exhilarating for her, but she didn't read the market. Honestly I'm guessing she did this on the side after negotiating some multi-million dollar brand relaunch for a Fortune 500 company. They tried out a new market and failed. And that's completely okay.

With that said it's the fact that D&D rushed it with the lens of money instead of a perspective of us collectors that made this whole thing tainted. They had some wrong direction and guidance in a new market. It's a shame too because the newest Flesh and Bones deck isn't half bad, but I'll never touch the site.

-Chin

[Mike Ratledge]

the NERVE they had to call the Millman deck a masterpiece)

This. So like I said, these two designers are great designers and they've won awards and worked for big companies, but they're not necessarily great deck designers. I just wish they looked more into the world of custom playing cards before creating their design, especially Debbie Millman (since Draplin's design is decent, but not worth $25 in my opinion). The way D&D is marketing this really does seem like an insult to card collectors. I know target audience for these decks are probably the fans of either Draplin or Millman, and they'd probably fall for all that hype about it being a masterpiece and all, but at the same time the website is centered on decks of playing cards, so it's fair to say that D&D probably had the card collecting community in mind, too. Also, to those new to the world of custom playing cards, I wouldn't want them to think the Millman deck is a good representative of a custom deck, just because D&D called it a "masterpiece."

I agree with the above. There's a lot of humbug around Deckstarter and I figured I'd give my 2 cents on what probably happened with this. I'm actually a big fan of Debbie Millman. In the world of branding (something I nerd out over) she's at the top and actually one of my heroes believe it or not. I'm also a big package design fanatic that follows the Dieline daily. So when I heard about Deckstarter I got psyched. But then we got what showed up.

Debbie and the Dieline are in the same realm as far as design goes and my guess is that they were approached by D&D. I imagine it wasn't that hard to start up the site and that they were given "guidance" by D&D through launch. The unfortunate thing is that they probably listened to that guidance. Debbie was given a chance to do some art which was exhilarating for her, but she didn't read the market. Honestly I'm guessing she did this on the side after negotiating some multi-million dollar brand relaunch for a Fortune 500 company. They tried out a new market and failed. And that's completely okay.

With that said it's the fact that D&D rushed it with the lens of money instead of a perspective of us collectors that made this whole thing tainted. They had some wrong direction and guidance in a new market. It's a shame too because the newest Flesh and Bones deck isn't half bad, but I'll never touch the site.

-Chin

Thanks, Alex. Interesting story. I think I have a solution. Then again I've already beaten that dead horse enough. I suppose that DeckStarter will eventually have to do something because they can't just keep dumping money into it to save face, or it least that's what I think using conventional wisdom. I guess D&D don't (use conventional wisdom). Maybe they should have a look at what I'm doing? I just bought a few domains last night in anticipation of what I'm doing for playing cards escaping "into the wild", like "GamesLauncher.com", "TechyLauncher.com", "Crowd-Funding.com" (tempting, but I wouldn't pay whoever is CyberSquatting on CrowdFunding.com $15,000 to have it), "FundingLauncher.com" and a few others. We'll see if I can ever use them, word on the street from the people that are making 4 or 5 video advertisements for CardLauncher is that it just might work. You never know. Since I have so many decks waiting to launch and I will only do four to start with, and four more 21 days later, and another four after 21 more days, it's going to take a while before they all see the light of day. Than again after about 45 days I'm going to unthrottle the beast that I popped the cork on about two weeks ago now, and that genie just ain't going back in the bottle.