The Esquire Deck

[InvictusPlayers]

Hey guys good to be back. I wanted to wait to start a new thread until things were settled on the forums after the server problems a few months back. Since I'm still working on designing the my Esquire deck I thought I would share some new pics with you guys. All feedback is greatly appreciated and welcome. Thanks!

[wahl0108]

Back looks sick! Love the dark colors too. What's the overall theme (sorry, can't really tell from the two pictures given)?

[InvictusPlayers]

Back looks sick! Love the dark colors too. What's the overall theme (sorry, can't really tell from the two pictures given)?

Hey thanks I've been revising the back a lot to try to massage everything into place.

The one phrase I can think that really sums up the deck is "high society". I wanted to design a deck that would have been created exclusively for membership of a gentleman's social club. I pictured a membership full of rich elites that gathered for drinks and games to wheel and deal over a game of poker. Within each of the courts I'm trying to embed a unique personality of high ranking club members. Their history drives the deck along with the general feeling involved in a closed doors exclusive club lifestyle. This deck would commemorate their past and celebrate their future as the titans of success and high class. If there ever was a true esquire club, then this is the deck they would play with.

Hope that helps!

[wahl0108]

It does, thanks!

[Eoghann]

I think the courts are much too angry and don't convey the aura of high society and elegance you aspire to represent. I'd recommend toning down the scowls for a serious (but not angry)and possibly arrogant expression.

[volantangel]

I think the card backs are a let down compared to the courts. Love how the courts are, angry or not they look good. The card backs simply look wayy too dark imo

[InvictusPlayers]

I think the courts are much too angry and don't convey the aura of high society and elegance you aspire to represent. I'd recommend toning down the scowls for a serious (but not angry)and possibly arrogant expression.

Thanks for commenting. I can see your point with the courts, but I'm not sold on the idea that they have to be smug just to represent their place in high society. After all the point here is to give them a sense of uniqueness with some built in personality and flare. Not all of them will have stern looks on their faces, but the first two happen to look a little more serious. Funny how being engrossed in a project can alter your perception of details like their facial expressions. I'm always open to suggestions and I will take yours under consideration when I'm making my final tweaks. Thanks again!

I think the card backs are a let down compared to the courts. Love how the courts are, angry or not they look good. The card backs simply look wayy too dark imo

Hey thanks for responding. I've spent more time working on tweaking the back design than I care to admit. I'm still trying to figure out how everything will fit together in the end. I think it's just a constant process of evolving the design until something feels right and then making sure all of the cards are harmonizing. It's a lot harder than I first thought from a design standpoint. I definitely think the back design could stand a further level of detail. And nothing here is final, the line work is good, but I know everything still needs some finishing and double checking in places for continuity. I think with a monochromatic design it's about finding that perfect balance between positive and negative spaces. And while I like the dark design of the backs I can see how it still needs to be pushed to really stand out. Thanks again for your comments.

[montecarlojoe]

The courts are really cool - the JoS screams "Shogun" to me

I think the problem wih the backs is that they incorporate gradients, layers and transparency not present in the rest of the design. If it were me I would lose the chevrons entirely, bring the more intricate background to a tone and contrast much nearer the "E" and integrate trhe E logos into that design.

[InvictusPlayers]

The courts are really cool - the JoS screams "Shogun" to me

I think the problem wih the backs is that they incorporate gradients, layers and transparency not present in the rest of the design. If it were me I would lose the chevrons entirely, bring the more intricate background to a tone and contrast much nearer the "E" and integrate trhe E logos into that design.

Hey thanks so much for your input. I've struggled since the beginning with the back design understanding that I needed to walk a fine line if everything was going to mesh. After reading the comments above ad especially yours I'm looking into incorporating your suggestions into a back theme better suited to the look and feel of the rest of the deck design. I really appreciate you taking the time to give me an honest assessment of the deck so far.

[montecarlojoe]

Thanks for letting us be part of the process!

I'm really looking forward to see what you come up with next

[MagikFingerz]

I think this is a good improvement from what was showed last time. Good to have you back

I think the back is fine, nothing that doesn't work, but there might be something that could be added. Corners are a bit boring (which is what's visible in fans), maybe make the corner thingy more visible/brighter?

[InvictusPlayers]

I think this is a good improvement from what was showed last time. Good to have you back

I think the back is fine, nothing that doesn't work, but there might be something that could be added. Corners are a bit boring (which is what's visible in fans), maybe make the corner thingy more visible/brighter?

You raise some very good points about the back design. I'm going to give it some serious thought this weekend and see if I can come up with a new direction for the back art incorporating the best of everyone's suggestions. There are some elements like the E's that I really want to keep in there, but I'm also not afraid to kill my babies so to speak if the design can be better. Thanks again and I hope to bring something new by the end of the weekend for the next round of discussion.

[MagikFingerz]

I think this is a good improvement from what was showed last time. Good to have you back

I think the back is fine, nothing that doesn't work, but there might be something that could be added. Corners are a bit boring (which is what's visible in fans), maybe make the corner thingy more visible/brighter?

You raise some very good points about the back design. I'm going to give it some serious thought this weekend and see if I can come up with a new direction for the back art incorporating the best of everyone's suggestions. There are some elements like the E's that I really want to keep in there, but I'm also not afraid to kill my babies so to speak if the design can be better. Thanks again and I hope to bring something new by the end of the weekend for the next round of discussion.

I think the E's are fine. I seem to remember that there was an issue with it last time, but now they're more logo-ish than text-ish and the intertwine makes them work better.

Just wanted to highlight the parts I meant could be brightened, for clarity's sake:

[InvictusPlayers]

Alright guys, I went back to the drawing board and started working on a new direction for the back design. I haven't got very far, but I wanted to show a preview so I could get your input before proceeding. I think it feels like a better overall fit for the deck design so far. And I did my best to incorporate everyone's comments into the design. Please let me know what you think.



I really wanted to do a borderless back design for my first deck. I really like the looks of them, but when I started putting this one together I liked the bordered feel more than I thought I would. Should I keep going with the bordered idea or try to keep the seamlessness of the flourishes all the way out the edges and into the bleed area?

My plan is to continue adding flourish details covering the back of the card. Perhaps incorporating one more iconic element I can mirror from side to side.

[MagikFingerz]

I like the borderless better (and in general). Such a big percentage of decks are bordered that I'd just like more borderless back designs to be made. And as a flourisher, I do enjoy using decks with a design that extends to or bleeds over the edge.

[InvictusPlayers]

Had some time over the past couple of weeks to work on a completely new design for the back from the ground up. I kept the E's like I mentioned before, but I really wanted to push the regal feel of the borderless design. I stuck with the black and metallic silver, but I'm also thinking about doing a version in white if I get a chance to do a special edition deck. Please let me know what you guys think, it's always good to get feedback from the community. Hope to be back soon with some more court cards, have a great rest of the weekend!

[montecarlojoe]

Wow - every time you come back this design just leaps ahead!

I love the new look - intricate but with a slightly hand-drawn quality to it which actually works quite nicely.

Nice one!

[Eoghann]

Deck isn't exactly going to fan like that but hot damn it looks nice.

[MagikFingerz]

Deck isn't exactly going to fan like that but hot damn it looks nice.

Yep, pretty much all "fan" renders are way too spaced out.

This new back looks good, but I still feel like it needs something to break the monotony. Like highlighting the logos (slightly brighter/darker than the rest) and/or some of the other elements.

Having an inversed edition works really well with this though, good call on that!

[Eoghann]

Agree. The dark ones need a bold white accent and the white some black to really make these look amazing.

[InvictusPlayers]

Hey everyone, thanks for replying so quickly, always good to get feedback so I can start making decisions and moving forward.

Wow - every time you come back this design just leaps ahead!

I love the new look - intricate but with a slightly hand-drawn quality to it which actually works quite nicely.

Nice one!

Thanks so much, I really wanted to push myself and my design skills to new levels with the back. I hope I pulled something together that the community will enjoy working with.

Deck isn't exactly going to fan like that but hot damn it looks nice.

Yep, pretty much all "fan" renders are way too spaced out.

This new back looks good, but I still feel like it needs something to break the monotony. Like highlighting the logos (slightly brighter/darker than the rest) and/or some of the other elements.

Having an inversed edition works really well with this though, good call on that!

Thanks for your feedback. When i'm trying to get a feel for the fan, should I simulate the look of a thumb fan? Or a table spread? I've carefully considered the idea of adding accent colors, but I'd like to stick with my monochrome look with the black and silver. Do you think there's a way to add separation to the logos without shifting the color? I sort of tried to do that with the large negative area around the E's, but I guess it wasn't enough. Any suggestions here would be really appreciated. Thanks again!

Do these fans look more accurate?

Agree. The dark ones need a bold white accent and the white some black to really make these look amazing.

Hey thanks for commenting again! This would totally work, I agree. I would love to keep a monochrome positive and negative thing going on with the cards if I can. I really like how this kind of mimicks the original Bicycle backs. I'm not completely shutting out the idea of going back and adding accent colors once all of my other options are exhausted, but I would love to pitch a design that showcases the lines offset by the silver on the black or the silver on the white because I really think it showcases the quality of the line weight and layout better than adding multiple colors. Once I get the design to a point that it works in a monochrome setting then deciding to go back and add accent colors will only enhance things further. (If I decide that they really need them in the end.)

[MagikFingerz]

That's definitely a better rendering of the fans, still not quite accurate regarding the pivot point though. I'll attach a fan of my own (disclaimer: not perfect), you can see how it differs from your rendering on how the upper right corner of the deck becomes visible. Not a complaint though, very few actually take time to do this, so kudos



PS. This is a good example of why I dislike thick borders, and relatively speaking these aren't even that thick!

[Eoghann]

Borderless should be the norm.

Or super thin borders!

[InvictusPlayers]

Alright, sorry if this seems a bit obsessive, but I really want to get the best previews I possibly can in front of you guys. I took the image from above and made a setup so my future previews will have a more accurate thumb fan. Man, i've spent way too much time in front of Photoshop this weekend!

[volantangel]

Now those fans look really good ! great work =)

[MagikFingerz]

That's perfect! And it's not obsessive when it's us who pointed it out

I hereby grant you permission to use the image of my hand in your renderings

[montecarlojoe]

Sweet!

[Eoghann]

Very nice!

[InvictusPlayers]

I still wasn't quite happy with the overall feel of the back design. The texture felt a little haphazard to me and I'm determined to get this thing looking as good as I possibly can. I played with the last design for more than a week shifting bits and pieces around and trying different versions, but I just wasn't happy with my scroll work. So this past weekend I had a chance to sit down and sketch out some new ideas.

I switched to a 4-way back just to see if the change was for the better. And as persistent as I've been about doing a borderless back I've been reviewing border options just to keep an open mind. It is my opinion that borderless backs may only be suited for backs that are completely uniform in design. Or if it is possible, maybe this just isn't the proper design for it.

Anyways, as always please let me know what you think, please excuse the crudeness of the linework, I wanted to give you guys a preview ASAP. I've tried my best to incorporate your last round of critique into the new revision. Thanks!

[ryzellon]

I see that the vertical bars/empty space to either side of the central "E"s are pretty consistently present in all your iterations. Is that a design aesthetic you're set on keeping? I don't see the necessity of a tripartite design, and having a little more interplay between the sections would do a lot to alleviate the starkness of the black bars (which I think are boring, but if that's something you want to keep, well, you're the boss).

I wish I could be more helpful in describing what I'd prefer to see, but the best I can manage is something rather MS Paint-y. The arrows indicate the direction I'd like to see the design expand, and the curves/lines indicate the edge of what I'd like to see moved.