Sherlock Holmes Decks by Jackson Robinson; Shipping complete

[walrus]

He is of course free to do as he chooses, as long as he gets his money I'm sure he is happy.
Many of us were unhappy when DandD and blue crown did the same thing Jackson is doing. That is the issue here, obviously a lot of people support him charging fifty dollars for a deck. To me, for a kickstarter designer to do this is completely uncalled for. To me, it cheapens the cards, the nice artwork becomes a money grab.Once again he is free to do so but to charge fifty bucks and say doing so makes the deck more available to collectors borders on ridiculousness.

[th4mo]

Wow, this debate has really raged on and on...!

Here's my two cents.

The KS price for Fed 52 was $11-$15 per deck. Now there are selling on ebay for let's call it an even $50. Why the hell should Jackson keep selling his decks at $15, and let ebay scalpers scoop up $35 in profit off of his hard work? If he did so, i don't doubt for a minute that most of those decks would go NOT directly into the hands of collectors, but to people who would resell them at the higher price.

Now, there is no reason at all to malign re-sellers in general. Almost everything we buy in this world goes through a distributor or re-seller, or even several of them. If individuals have bad manners, that is on them, not the whole class. Re-sellers provide a valuable service to producers by taking inventory off their hands and providing immediate income to the producers.

At this point, Jackson does not have a huge inventory of decks sitting around, so he does not need this service. No reason he shouldn't sell them himself at the market price. He is not doing a disservice to collectors, as most will end up paying the higher price regardless. On the other hand, he IS continuing to protect the value of the product he created for the backers who believed in him.

Look, there are a bunch of cool decks that came out only a few years ago that i would love to have in my collection, but i wasn't collecting at that time so i missed out. if i want them now, i'll have to pay much more than the initial list price of those decks. Whoever is selling them now COULD sell them for the initial price, but they'd be foolish to do so. That's just the nature of collectibles. If you missed out on the Fed 52 KS, that's tough luck. Everyone who did back it should be even happier now that they did.

Maybe it's a hard pill to swallow because this one got soooooo much attention, and because these decks jumped in value 400% practically overnight. But no matter how long ago you started collecting, there were amazing items that you just barely missed out on.

That's just the way it is. There will always be things that we want but can't afford. Stop picking on Jackson for NOT being a selfless idiot. He has a family to support, and I, for one, love to see someone have so much success in a creative field.

In fact, I hope other deserving talents can follow his lead and emulate his success. Sure lots of poseurs are throwing lumps of charcoal on KS like crazy now, but there are bound to be more diamonds coming too.

[walrus]

Fomo, you're my boy but I disagree. We complain about the jacked up prices on decks on KS. This is no different. Actually it is different, it is a slap in the face to collectors.

[Sher]

I agree with th4mo completely, but I have to admit, as a consumer and new collector, it was hard for me to swallow the prices. However, expressing my disappointment at the high prices does not equate to disapproval of what Jackson did.

[walrus]

I am not above paying fifty bucks for a deck. I played sixty five for a White Cent and I think I paid fifty for a red artifice. I don't regret either purchase. My problem is this is the first KS creator to do this. We must stand United and stop the insanity. Join me as I speak out for the little man or this travesty will become the norm.

[th4mo]

Fomo, you're my boy but I disagree. We complain about the jacked up prices on decks on KS. This is no different. Actually it is different, it is a slap in the face to collectors.

Yay, i'm your boy... Clap clap!
I love you too man!

Look, i'm not in this to make money, and i don't know how many "collectors" are ruled by the potential return they hope to make off their "investments". If i see a deck that i like, and i can afford it, i buy it.
We all have different limits for what is expensive, and the international buyers doubly so. But i've paid quite a bit of money for decks that i really wanted, mostly on ebay, and i've paid shipping from Europe or Asia for those at times too. There are times i've had to make hard choices and decided not to buy decks that were just more than i wanted to pay.

The market has decided that the average price for a KS deck is now over $10. I am willing to pay that much for decks that i find interesting. I've backed over 100 KS projects, and i'm not going to stop because walmart sells decks for $3. The decks that i like, by and large, are now found on KS. The market has decided that Fed 52 is worth $50. Why Fed 52, and not Elite's decks, or Johnny Wham's decks? because people WANT Fed 52 more. Would i pay that much now? hard to say because i already have mine. But that's what people are willing to pay. I personally think it's crazy to pay over $100 for the carbon fiber deck, but that's just because it doesn't appeal to me. So far almost 200 people disagree with me, but i'm not going to insult them. (The 12 people backing "Vampire and Zombie Playing Card Decks Project" are a different story! ) Asking a business person to sell his product for less than it is worth is also a slap in the face. We might as well ask BMP Mike to sell his decks to UC members at half price because it would make us all feel special. How do you think that would go over?

Join me as I speak out for the little man or this travesty will become the norm.

Dude, there are thousands of people backing decks on KS at these prices. The playing card market has exploded. This IS the new norm. We have to take the good (awesome decks!) with the bad (collector's prices).

peace!

[walrus]

Fomo, you're my boy but I disagree. We complain about the jacked up prices on decks on KS. This is no different. Actually it is different, it is a slap in the face to collectors.

Yay, i'm your boy... Clap clap!
I love you too man!

Look, i'm not in this to make money, and i don't know how many "collectors" are ruled by the potential return they hope to make off their "investments". If i see a deck that i like, and i can afford it, i buy it.
We all have different limits for what is expensive, and the international buyers doubly so. But i've paid quite a bit of money for decks that i really wanted, mostly on ebay, and i've paid shipping from Europe or Asia for those at times too. There are times i've had to make hard choices and decided not to buy decks that were just more than i wanted to pay.

The market has decided that the average price for a KS deck is now over $10. I am willing to pay that much for decks that i find interesting. I've backed over 100 KS projects, and i'm not going to stop because walmart sells decks for $3. The decks that i like, by and large, are now found on KS. The market has decided that Fed 52 is worth $50. Why Fed 52, and not Elite's decks, or Johnny Wham's decks? because people WANT Fed 52 more. Would i pay that much now? hard to say because i already have mine. But that's what people are willing to pay. I personally think it's crazy to pay over $100 for the carbon fiber deck, but that's just because it doesn't appeal to me. So far almost 200 people disagree with me, but i'm not going to insult them. (The 12 people backing "Vampire and Zombie Playing Card Decks Project" are a different story! ) Asking a business person to sell his product for less than it is worth is also a slap in the face. We might as well ask BMP Mike to sell his decks to UC members at half price because it would make us all feel special. How do you think that would go over?

Join me as I speak out for the little man or this travesty will become the norm.

Dude, there are thousands of people backing decks on KS at these prices. The playing card market has exploded. This IS the new norm. We have to take the good (awesome decks!) with the bad (collector's prices).

peace!

I was only referring to KS as many here complain about the prices. I want to see KS be successful for the creators, I don't mind that, my discussion here is specifically about a creator charging fifty dollars for his deck. EBay prices should be irrelevant to a creator if he wants to demonstrate high moral character.

[Mike Ratledge]

Damn, I touched a nerve. I'll be happy to pay for the value I get, and these cards were fetching $38+ in sets of all four varieties if you were lucky. I doubt seriously if that price will be seen again. $45 in his pocket makes me happier than tossing $200+ on eBay. Simple economics, why would I expect him to undercut himself? Now that IS crazy...

[walrus]

Damn, I touched a nerve. I'll be happy to pay for the value I get, and these cards were fetching $38+ in sets of all four varieties if you were lucky. I doubt seriously if that price will be seen again. $45 in his pocket makes me happier than tossing $200+ on eBay. Simple economics, why would I expect him to undercut himself? Now that IS crazy...

You hit no nerve. I continue to speak on decent. EBay should have play in what Jackson charges. He should be loyal to his followers.

[Firthetic]

Something else I would like to point out, is it may not seem like it with the high price but in a what most of you might see as twisted but me setting the price high was me protecting the collectors. Before you laugh and call me crazy. Listen to my side of it. From when the project was over until the day I put them on my website I got at least 1 or 2 calls a day from "wholesalers" or people claiming to be such wanting to buy 1 brick to 5 gross. Every time they would call they would say can I have the decks for 1 or 2 dollars below kickstarter price. Heck no! That would be really spitting in my supporters face.

I knew that with only about 200 or so decks left to sell. If i were to price them at 12-15$ then I would have no control over some jack knob coming on my site and buying every single one of them. I wanted everybody that had been emailing me the past few months to get a chance at buying them. Yes they are high but they still had a chance to buy them. If I would have priced them low or even above kickstarter price. Nobody would have gotten a chance. I had one wholesaler offer my $35 a deck for my entire remaining inventory. Think about how pissed you guys would have been if on the day of my web launch you went to my site and it was just pics and any where it said add to cart it said "screw you, we are sold out". It probably wouldn't have said screw you but you get the idea.

In the end, the last thing that I wanted was some cranky wholesaler that thought I owed them something because "they could get my decks in-front of more people" getting all my decks instead of the people who set alarms and stayed up late to get them from me.

And then I saw this on AetherCards (http://aethercards.com/discourse/sales- ... tificates/):

"Epic Trade Detials

JacksonRobinson:

Available Now / Sending Now:
6 Branded Fed 52 (1 Signed on tuck)
6 Unbranded Fed 52 (1 Signed on tuck)
6 Branded Gold Cert (1 Signed on tuck)
6 Unbranded Gold Cert (1 Signed on tuck)

Fed 52 Uncut Singed
Gold Cert Uncut Signed

Available November / Sending Later:

6 Branded Silver Cert (1 signed on Holographic numbered seal)
6 Unbranded Silver Cert (1 signed on Holographic numbered seal)
6 Branded White Reserve Note (1 signed on Holographic numbered seal)
6 Unbranded White Reserve Note (1 signed on Holographic numbered seal)
12 Branded Black Reserve Note (1 signed on Holographic numbered seal)

Trade for:

Fanofyankees13

2x Red Chinatown
2x Massas
2x Masters
2x Vortex
2x Red JAQK
2x Blue JAQK
1x Virginia Slim
2x Fantastique
2x Ace Fultons Casino
1x Gold Arcane
1x BGV1
2x Red LTD
2x Sultan Treasury
2x White Monarchs
2x Madison Dealers
2x Ornates
2x Summer NOCs
2x Seasons (1 black, 1 white- 1 set)
2x Blue LTD
2x Ask Alexanders
2x Skulkors
2x Green Crown v1
2x Fathom
2x Vaudevilles
1x Blue Jerry's Nug
1x Gold Arcane uncut sheet
1x Animal Kingdom uncut sheet
1x Rebel uncut sheet
1x Artisan uncut sheet

Both Gents take care of Shipping."

How is this different from selling to a reseller? You can be sure this guy will be selling his decks on eBay at marked up prices.

[montecarlojoe]

Well I guess this is Jackson trading for his personal collection...

Having said that most of the items he's trading for there aren't THAT hard to find. You could easily sell the fed 52 stuff for $2500 at the current going rate... would you need to spend that much to get fanofyankees list?

[Mike Ratledge]

What's the difference between decks you created and cash? Either way you made the money.

[Mike Ratledge]

You hit no nerve. I continue to speak on decent. EBay should have play in what Jackson charges. He should be loyal to his followers.

I assume you meant "have no play"? Why not? What am I missing here? If everybody else is getting $45-$50 per deck, why should he get less or take less?

[sprouts1115]

Come on guys. Jackson has had a limited edition theme and he has proved it to you with his Federal 52 and Sherlock Holmes. He has also proven you will get your decks. I can see his decks in the future going for $100 once he gets into USPCC and makes a name for himself.

Since he has a website going maybe he should take the best elements from his Federal 52 and make a new box and make an unlimited version of it to sell on his website. I would suggest making the red and blue threads different on each card. It was predominate on the gold certificate deck. I'm surprised nobody said anything. I guess you can say this is the pink version, but It needs to be known this is unlimited. He could do that to the Sherlock Holmes deck too. Make a different box but state it is unlimited. I think the museum that is going on tour is going to need some decks. I can imagine as a kid bring home a Sherlock Holmes deck as a souvenir. How perfect is that.

His current Kickstarter rewards which are based upon his limited deck has kind of stagnated. Oh I'm sure, you will see a big pool of people in his A1 & D1 rewards, but he has no more high rewards. These people are just dying to jump up and upgrade their reward you just have to figure out how to entice them.

[Mike Ratledge]

...
His current Kickstarter rewards which are based upon his limited deck has kind of stagnated. Oh I'm sure, you will see a big pool of people in his A1 & D1 rewards, but he has no more high rewards. These people are just dying to jump up and upgrade their reward you just have to figure out how to entice them.

I couldn't agree more.

[Firthetic]

Well I guess this is Jackson trading for his personal collection...

Having said that most of the items he's trading for there aren't THAT hard to find. You could easily sell the fed 52 stuff for $2500 at the current going rate... would you need to spend that much to get fanofyankees list?

Maybe it's just me, but I think this is incongruous with his statements about not selling his decks to ""wholesalers" or people claiming to be such wanting to buy 1 brick to 5 gross" because he wants to protect the collectors, as Jackson is providing someone with the means to sell the decks at marked-up prices.

I don't claim to know Fanofyankees, I don't know if he backed the project in the first place, and I'm NOT saying that Fanofyankees WILL sell the decks on eBay at $200 for a set, but it's potentially a nice payday for him, considering he's getting 60 Fed 52 decks + 2 uncuts.

It's a bit late now, but perhaps Jackson could have organised a timed sale similar to how Shepard Fairey sells his Obey prints: one set per household. Just a thought. As it is, I'm happy with the Fed 52 decks that I own, and I have pledged at the top level for his Sherlock decks, but I can't help feeling more cynical than I initially was when he first appeared on the playing cards scene.

[volantangel]

Well I guess this is Jackson trading for his personal collection...

Having said that most of the items he's trading for there aren't THAT hard to find. You could easily sell the fed 52 stuff for $2500 at the current going rate... would you need to spend that much to get fanofyankees list?

Maybe it's just me, but I think this is incongruous with his statements about not selling his decks to ""wholesalers" or people claiming to be such wanting to buy 1 brick to 5 gross" because he wants to protect the collectors, as Jackson is providing someone with the means to sell the decks at marked-up prices.

I don't claim to know Fanofyankees, I don't know if he backed the project in the first place, and I'm NOT saying that Fanofyankees WILL sell the decks on eBay at $200 for a set, but it's potentially a nice payday for him, considering he's getting 60 Fed 52 decks + 2 uncuts.

It's a bit late now, but perhaps Jackson could have organised a timed sale similar to how Shepard Fairey sells his Obey prints: one set per household. Just a thought. As it is, I'm happy with the Fed 52 decks that I own, and I have pledged at the top level for his Sherlock decks, but I can't help feeling more cynical than I initially was when he first appeared on the playing cards scene.

Erm he just posted the decks for sale on aether. well, not 200, but 175 a set, same thing anyways.

http://aethercards.com/discourse/sales- ... niversity/

[Sher]

His current Kickstarter rewards which are based upon his limited deck has kind of stagnated. Oh I'm sure, you will see a big pool of people in his A1 & D1 rewards, but he has no more high rewards. These people are just dying to jump up and upgrade their reward you just have to figure out how to entice them.

I agree. Well maybe it's too early to say, but the $175,000 stretch goal seems to be quite a reach right now. I checked on kicktraq and after the first 3-4 days, the increase in $ amount on the following days are below $2,000 per day, and he needs an average of $4,000 on the remaining days to reach $175,000. On the Fed 52 Part 2, kicktraq shows that after the first 3-4 days, the increase in $ amount on the following days still hovered around $5,000 before leveling off below $2,000 per day. As much as I love Sherlock Holmes (I have read almost all Sherlock Holmes stories), I think the Fed 52 series is much more attractive (it's going to be difficult to live up to that one). I do think the last stretch goal is still possible. There might be a surge of new pledges, too. If that last one is ever unlocked, though, I'm guessing we'll only have a limited time (maybe a 2-3 days) to modify our pledges to add in the new deck.

[Sher]

Well I guess this is Jackson trading for his personal collection...

Having said that most of the items he's trading for there aren't THAT hard to find. You could easily sell the fed 52 stuff for $2500 at the current going rate... would you need to spend that much to get fanofyankees list?

Maybe it's just me, but I think this is incongruous with his statements about not selling his decks to ""wholesalers" or people claiming to be such wanting to buy 1 brick to 5 gross" because he wants to protect the collectors, as Jackson is providing someone with the means to sell the decks at marked-up prices.

I don't claim to know Fanofyankees, I don't know if he backed the project in the first place, and I'm NOT saying that Fanofyankees WILL sell the decks on eBay at $200 for a set, but it's potentially a nice payday for him, considering he's getting 60 Fed 52 decks + 2 uncuts.

It's a bit late now, but perhaps Jackson could have organised a timed sale similar to how Shepard Fairey sells his Obey prints: one set per household. Just a thought. As it is, I'm happy with the Fed 52 decks that I own, and I have pledged at the top level for his Sherlock decks, but I can't help feeling more cynical than I initially was when he first appeared on the playing cards scene.

Erm he just posted the decks for sale on aether. well, not 200, but 175 a set, same thing anyways.

http://aethercards.com/discourse/sales- ... niversity/

You can get a complete set of 4 on eBay for less, if you're willing to haggle a little bit. Ugh, the uncut sheets, though... Seriously debating.

[Firthetic]

Well I guess this is Jackson trading for his personal collection...

Having said that most of the items he's trading for there aren't THAT hard to find. You could easily sell the fed 52 stuff for $2500 at the current going rate... would you need to spend that much to get fanofyankees list?

Maybe it's just me, but I think this is incongruous with his statements about not selling his decks to ""wholesalers" or people claiming to be such wanting to buy 1 brick to 5 gross" because he wants to protect the collectors, as Jackson is providing someone with the means to sell the decks at marked-up prices.

I don't claim to know Fanofyankees, I don't know if he backed the project in the first place, and I'm NOT saying that Fanofyankees WILL sell the decks on eBay at $200 for a set, but it's potentially a nice payday for him, considering he's getting 60 Fed 52 decks + 2 uncuts.

It's a bit late now, but perhaps Jackson could have organised a timed sale similar to how Shepard Fairey sells his Obey prints: one set per household. Just a thought. As it is, I'm happy with the Fed 52 decks that I own, and I have pledged at the top level for his Sherlock decks, but I can't help feeling more cynical than I initially was when he first appeared on the playing cards scene.

Erm he just posted the decks for sale on aether. well, not 200, but 175 a set, same thing anyways.

http://aethercards.com/discourse/sales- ... niversity/

Well, well, well... Now ain't that a surprise?

[montecarlojoe]

What's the difference between decks you created and cash? Either way you made the money.

Nothing, but by using them as such in this case he wildy undervalued his own decks (according to the current price point) and to an apparent reseller to boot.

It kinda goes against everything you've been saying (and I agree with wht you;ve said.

Now I have no doub't that Jackson made a genuine trade for his own collection, but it does seem odd / inconsistent with his own 'policy'.

But this was a private trade with (I assume) persnal stash , and that's the difference I guess .

[walrus]

Well, Jackson scored two VORTEX DECKS with his trade so I can't fault him for that.

[Gareth]

Well, Jackson scored two VORTEX DECKS with his trade so I can't fault him for that.

That's more than some backers got

[Mike Ratledge]

These days it's all too easy for us to see (and "dun-dun-duhhhh") monitor what he's doing. I really don't think it's any of our business what he does with his decks. $175 vs $180 - I'll live. Not my place to judge, it's his blood, sweat and tears that made them.

As far as the stretch goal for the "Hounds" deck on Sherlock Holmes, I seriously hope he will either offer another Limited Edition now, or make that them. The project needs a cash infusion, and not at the "last minute". $185,000 ain't gonna happen at the current rate. Again, it's his baby, but offering 2500 decks "black/silver/red" would be consistent with what he did on Fed "2".

[Firthetic]

These days it's all too easy for us to see (and "dun-dun-duhhhh") monitor what he's doing. I really don't think it's any of our business what he does with his decks. $175 vs $180 - I'll live. Not my place to judge, it's his blood, sweat and tears that made them.

These days it's also all too easy for people to defend him and not hold him up to the same scrutiny that we give to the big boys like D&D and Theory 11, just because he's the flavor of the week. True, it's his blood, sweat and tears that designed the cards, but we as supporters made it possible with our pledges. I'd say that makes it my business if I feel like commenting when I think his actions are not in line with his statements.

[Mike Ratledge]

These days it's also all too easy for people to defend him and not hold him up to the same scrutiny that we give to the big boys like D&D and Theory 11, just because he's the flavor of the week. True, it's his blood, sweat and tears that designed the cards, but we as supporters made it possible with our pledges. I'd say that makes it my business if I feel like commenting when I think his actions are not in line with his statements.

No issue there. I just think it's overly intrusive to monitor his actions. It's not my business what or how or where he does what he does with his card decks. D&D have earned their disdain, IMHO, but Jackson is just being a smart businessman, again - IMO. "Everybody's got one"...

[Firthetic]

These days it's also all too easy for people to defend him and not hold him up to the same scrutiny that we give to the big boys like D&D and Theory 11, just because he's the flavor of the week. True, it's his blood, sweat and tears that designed the cards, but we as supporters made it possible with our pledges. I'd say that makes it my business if I feel like commenting when I think his actions are not in line with his statements.

No issue there. I just think it's overly intrusive to monitor his actions. It's not my business what or how or where he does what he does with his card decks. D&D have earned their disdain, IMHO, but Jackson is just being a smart businessman, again - IMO. "Everybody's got one"...

I don't see how it's being intrusive when it's all public, IMO. *shrugs* Anyway, let's see if we're singing the same tune down the road when he no longer needs Kickstarter to sell his decks. I find that I agree with what Walrus had to say about this one or two pages ago.

"...and they all stink."

[Mike Ratledge]

...
"Everybody's got one"...

I don't see how it's being intrusive when it's all public, IMO. *shrugs* Anyway, let's see if we're singing the same tune down the road when he no longer needs Kickstarter to sell his decks. I find that I agree with what Walrus had to say about this one or two pages ago.

"...and they all stink."

Yep, they surely do.

I hope Jackson does get beyond the KS "requirement", and I feel certain that he will. I don't see it as a crutch like some people do, and as pointed out before, other than one insane project, his two previous goes have been the top KS playing card projects ever. He deserves it! There's a lot of that blood, sweat and tears that goes into his design projects, unlike a lot of them that don't move from the day they are posted until the day the either fail or get funded.

[Fanofyankees13]

Hi,

Figured I would drop by to clear something up. Yes, I traded with Jackson and have a lot of his Federal52 decks. I don't plan to sell them on eBay for a ridiculous markup. I will admit I did have a listing on Aethercards to sell 4 of his decks, but that was only to try to raise money for a club at my university, but very quickly realized that was not a proper thing to do and immediately removed the Federal52 decks from my listing. I can see how this would've been highly questionable and I immediately removed the Federal52 items. I am well aware I could sell my lot of Jackson's cards for a large profit, but I will not be doing so. I admire the cards for the art that they are and will be keeping every single deck I have received. I am not a wholesaler nor do I claim to be one- I am simply a collector who greatly admires and appreciates Jackson's cards. Thanks.

[walrus]

I don't think what you did was an issue. People are just using your transaction to make a point. I do have a problem with you be a Yankee fan. By the way, how many VORTEX DECKS do you have.