Sherlock Holmes Decks by Jackson Robinson; Shipping complete

[volantangel]

Jackson kept the LE to 1000 decks. A huge sigh of relief..

[Sharpie]

I'm with Eoghann.
Not happy about the 'tuck change only' LE, but I can understand Jackson wanting to avoid the fallout from community members. It's just too bad we will likely never see (or receive) what he was hatching for the LE deck itself.

[MagikFingerz]

People are using kickstarter as a preorder storefront.

I said this about a year ago. But yeah

I sincerely hope this is Jackson's last kickstarter, I highly doubt he needs the extra exposure at this point.

I think Kickstarter is an awesome business model. It removes a lot of risk on the creators side.

The business model of going into debt or laying down large amounts of money to sit on an inventory that you hope you can sell for profit has a lot of risk involved. But Kickstarter allows you to see if your product or project is viable before you have to spend a ton of money.

I agree with you, but these are risks of new entrepreneurs with brand new products, not already successful people with a large/growing customer base. Continuing to use kickstarter for every new product just seems lazy to me, like it's a crutch. If every new business with a new product only used kickstarter, they would all become spoiled and have no sense of the actual risks of running a venture.

[ForTheSeekers]

The Federal 52's...$50?
I think this is a shame... $50 a deck...really? - I love these decks and I'm sad that I missed this Kickstarter campaign. I understand that the more people that pledge...the more you have to ship and it could eat up your entire budget but in this case I know Jackson made a tidy profit. I tried to reach out to Jackson after the campaign had already closed to see about a release date on decks available to the public and got no response and now I see them at this outrageous price.

I guess my dad won't be getting a deck of 52's from me for Christmas after all.... and with this in mind...I like the Holmes decks but I will have a difficult time backing any of Jackson's future projects on Kickstarter. IMO Jackson has already been Kickstarted and Kickstarter has become a do or die marketplace for him instead of a place for a creator to get their project out into the world where they would otherwise not be able to.

[walrus]

The Federal 52's...$50?
I think this is a shame... $50 a deck...really? - I love these decks and I'm sad that I missed this Kickstarter campaign. I understand that the more people that pledge...the more you have to ship and it could eat up your entire budget but in this case I know Jackson made a tidy profit. I tried to reach out to Jackson after the campaign had already closed to see about a release date on decks available to the public and got no response and now I see them at this outrageous price.

I guess my dad won't be getting a deck of 52's from me for Christmas after all.... and with this in mind...I like the Holmes decks but I will have a difficult time backing any of Jackson's future projects on Kickstarter. IMO Jackson has already been Kickstarted and Kickstarter has become a do or die marketplace for him instead of a place for a creator to get their project out into the world where they would otherwise not be able to.

Thank you for saying that. More power to Jackson I hope he does well but this is getting to be a little too much for Walrus.

[Mike Ratledge]

Well, you can't fault Jackson for doing what the market allows. They were going for around $60-$70 per deck on eBay until they showed up for $50 several places. Now the guys on eBay have adjusted. I think they will go back up when he runs out. I did see them on GGS for $49.95 I think it was. Actually Jackson is getting $45 on his KingsWild site with 10% discount. I can't blame him. Everyone else is... I put my nickel in the jukebox. I've got a 10% coupon for GGS around here somewhere.

[slykly1]

People are using kickstarter as a preorder storefront.

I said this about a year ago. But yeah

I sincerely hope this is Jackson's last kickstarter, I highly doubt he needs the extra exposure at this point.

I think Kickstarter is an awesome business model. It removes a lot of risk on the creators side.

The business model of going into debt or laying down large amounts of money to sit on an inventory that you hope you can sell for profit has a lot of risk involved. But Kickstarter allows you to see if your product or project is viable before you have to spend a ton of money.

I agree with you, but these are risks of new entrepreneurs with brand new products, not already successful people with a large/growing customer base. Continuing to use kickstarter for every new product just seems lazy to me, like it's a crutch. If every new business with a new product only used kickstarter, they would all become spoiled and have no sense of the actual risks of running a venture.

Being a new Entrepreneur or Seasoned and Successful still caries the same risk when launching a project. Using Kickstarter for every new project is "Smart" not lazy. It is a new system that works. So why change what is working to something else that is risky and doesn't always work?

Being broke and going into debt or risking is normal - so I choose to be weird and debt free.

[MagikFingerz]

Being a new Entrepreneur or Seasoned and Successful still caries the same risk when launching a project. Using Kickstarter for every new project is "Smart" not lazy. It is a new system that works. So why change what is working to something else that is risky and doesn't always work?

Being broke and going into debt or risking is normal - so I choose to be weird and debt free.

Umm, a completely fresh business starter has to deal with more risks without the customer base that the seasoned one already has, doesn't he? And I never said it wasn't smart, but that doesn't mean it isn't lazy as well.

What if kickstarter never existed, would you have never taken any risks to realize your carbon deck? To me, that seems like poor faith in one's own product.

[Sher]

Well, you can't fault Jackson for doing what the market allows. They were going for around $60-$70 per deck on eBay until they showed up for $50 several places. Now the guys on eBay have adjusted. I think they will go back up when he runs out. I did see them on GGS for $49.95 I think it was. Actually Jackson is getting $45 on his KingsWild site with 10% discount. I can't blame him. Everyone else is... I put my nickel in the jukebox. I've got a 10% coupon for GGS around here somewhere.

I'm somewhat bitter over how Jackson priced his Fed 52 decks, but like you, I feel like I can't really blame him for pricing them that way. The highest price on eBay I've seen for a single deck was $100, and the lowest I've seen it sell for was $40. I guess maybe Jackson thought $50 wouldn't be so bad based on eBay pricing, and didn't think so many people would object, considering the demand.

I've just recently started collecting cards so I'm pretty late into the Kickstarter game (first playing card project I backed was The Black Book of Cards), so I've been busy looking up previous playing card Kickstarter campaigns and checking to see where the decks would be available (if the ship date has passed). I've never seen any of the decks go higher than $50, and especially not from the creator of the deck. If the creator has his/her own website for selling the decks, prices usually range from $11-$25 for a single deck.

Due to the tremendous success of his decks, I'm sure many people will spring for the $50 price tag. Someone on Kickstarter even admitted to buying a whole brick for that price, with a grand total of $600 + shipping and taxes. I'm mentioning this simply to demonstrate how popular and successful the decks are and how Jackson has such a strong following. I do not mean it in any way to judge or criticize. Anyway, if I had that much extra money to spend, I can't say for sure that I wouldn't consider doing the same thing.

After all the anticipation for his website to go live and the disappointment at seeing those prices, I really regretted passing up on some of the eBay auctions. I immediately went back to eBay and checked if the decks were being offered at a better price. Individually, no. But get them as a set of 4, and the price goes down to as low as $38 per deck. I decided to spring for it. A little bit of dread is now mixed in with my excitement for Fed 52 Part 2.

[JacksonRobinson]

There are alot of things I love and hate about Kickstarter.

Things I love

1. HUGE, reach FREE marketing
2. Some what streamlined system
3. HUGE, reach FREE marketing
4. HUGE, reach FREE marketing

Things I hate

1. Putting all my eggs in one basket
2. Paying them over $24,000 over the course of Fed I and Fed 2.
3. How they handle shipping.

I'm already planning my first deck that will be done 100% on my website and off of Kickstarter some time in the spring. Will i get the volume? Absolutely NOT but I will be self sufficient and not dependent on KS to see if my Playing card company will stand on its own.

In terms of the price of the Feds on my site. Are the prices high? Yes, they are high. Here are a few of things that led me to price them that way.

Supply and Demand - Before my site went live I had a very limited number of decks left only because on the first project I didn't have the capital and was scared to death to spend any money so I only bought just enough decks to fulfill the KS order and then a little left over.

I got sick and tired of wholesalers calling me asking if "they could get lower than the kickstarter price" - In my opinion at least in the premium deck world wholesalers are a dying breed. Sure you will be able to find the 97th color variation of you pink zebra print arcanes there but the decks that people will fight over will be the ones that individuals create with sweat equity and print very few of. Companies like E, T11, D&D don't have the profit margins to pay an illustrator enough to create a deck that will compete with some of the loan designer decks out there, and its only going to get harder for those guys to compete, because there business model is based on low production cost high volume.

Sure there have been a ton of people who have thumbed their noses at me about the price, but when have you ever done anything where you made everyone happy? For every griper on the boards or on my KS page there were two people who were buying them on my site. I love how I became a greedy crook when I simply put into practiced capitalism just like everybody has done for thousands of years. And with without a shadow of doubt I'll piss someone off just because I've replied to this forum even if I was talking about teddy bears and rainbows.

In the end people can talk the loudest with their wallets. I realize the price may be to high for alot of people but im not forcing anyone to type in their credit card number and hit submit.

The Fed 52 Part II decks will most likely be price lower only because I was a little more comfortable with producing more decks.

[sprouts1115]

Screenshot 2013-11-08 23.09.35.png (211.39 KiB) Viewed 2098 times

I got sick and tired of wholesalers calling me asking if "they could get lower than the kickstarter price"

Hey Jackson! I bet that was worst than telemarketers. I can only imagine the pitch they tried to give you. Sounds like what you doing now on your website is the good old free market. If you ever need any ideas for a new deck, I got a whole bunch. Check out my new back. I'm Thinking about putting cupid in the balloons.

[Sharpie]

I don't even know what to say to you, sprouts

[Eoghann]

I don't even know what to say to you, sprouts

I knew a person like that once. Very likeable, completely bonkers. She would often pee on our doorstep and front yard though.

[Sher]

Sure there have been a ton of people who have thumbed their noses at me about the price, but when have you ever done anything where you made everyone happy? For every griper on the boards or on my KS page there were two people who were buying them on my site. I love how I became a greedy crook when I simply put into practiced capitalism just like everybody has done for thousands of years. And with without a shadow of doubt I'll piss someone off just because I've replied to this forum even if I was talking about teddy bears and rainbows.

In the end people can talk the loudest with their wallets. I realize the price may be to high for alot of people but im not forcing anyone to type in their credit card number and hit submit.

The Fed 52 Part II decks will most likely be price lower only because I was a little more comfortable with producing more decks.

It may just be a coincidence that your post is right after mine, but anyway, I hope I didn't set you off or something. Like I said previously, I don't really blame you for the price you set, since I can see the logic in it. Myself being a consumer, of course I would be disappointed that the price is so high, but I hope you don't take that too personally. I know I didn't really show my support since I turned to eBay instead of buying directly from you, but it just made sense for me try and save money just as it makes sense for you to get a profit for your work. Anyway, any money I saved from getting the Fed 52 decks on eBay is probably going to go towards your current campaign, so it still should be a win-win

I also forgot to add earlier - the price you set probably did some good for this deck. If you had set it somewhere from $11-25, the value of the deck would have gone lower instead of staying somewhere in the $50-100 margin. So now it's probably more coveted than ever.

If you don't mind my asking - approximately how much lower will the Fed 52 Part II decks be?

[DukeBoy]

If you don't mind my asking - approximately how much lower will the Fed 52 Part II decks be?

$49.99

[PlayingCardz]

If you don't mind my asking - approximately how much lower will the Fed 52 Part II decks be?

$49.99

Ahah this is stupid but it made me laugh

[Mike Ratledge]

Supply and Demand - Before my site went live I had a very limited number of decks left only because on the first project I didn't have the capital and was scared to death to spend any money so I only bought just enough decks to fulfill the KS order and then a little left over.
...
Sure there have been a ton of people who have thumbed their noses at me about the price, but when have you ever done anything where you made everyone happy? For every griper on the boards or on my KS page there were two people who were buying them on my site. I love how I became a greedy crook when I simply put into practiced capitalism just like everybody has done for thousands of years. And with without a shadow of doubt I'll piss someone off just because I've replied to this forum even if I was talking about teddy bears and rainbows.

In the end people can talk the loudest with their wallets. I realize the price may be to high for a lot of people but im not forcing anyone to type in their credit card number and hit submit.

You'd be crazy to ask anything less, IMHO. I think some people would appreciate it if the 10% off was universal instead of selective, but there are always people - like me - that talk REALLY LOUD. Unfortunately, many of them are only loud because they like to hear themselves talk instead of helping other people or have an opinion based on reason instead of bullying.

[montecarlojoe]

I can't say I have a problem with Robson charging the going rate on his site. A product is worth precisely as much as someone will pay - if he can sell them at that price then that's just fine!

With the limited edition thing - I voted B because I wanted a bit more of a difference than the tuck box - but on balance and with hindsight I think sticking with the current LE was the best thing to do - keep things the same as people pledged for eyed open.

I can see why people would think that charging double for a different tuckbox is artificially inflating the price - but I can't really complain as I pledged for one knowing exactly what it was...

UUSI have the limited edition thing down to an art - mainly by keeping it simple and transparent: Deck A minimum of 2500, but as many as pledged for, Deck B 2500 run only.

[walrus]

I think goodwill towards the collectors is more important than a high markup for a quick cash infusion. if you have one person that will pay that much for every two that complain that is a lot of unhappy people. I know the whole thing turned me off.

[sqratch]

I think goodwill towards the collectors is more important than a high markup for a quick cash infusion. if you have one person that will pay that much for every two that complain that is a lot of unhappy people. I know the whole thing turned me off.

I agree and I'm sure the ratio is a lot higher than 1 to 2.

[JacksonRobinson]

Something else I would like to point out, is it may not seem like it with the high price but in a what most of you might see as twisted but me setting the price high was me protecting the collectors. Before you laugh and call me crazy. Listen to my side of it. From when the project was over until the day I put them on my website I got at least 1 or 2 calls a day from "wholesalers" or people claiming to be such wanting to buy 1 brick to 5 gross. Every time they would call they would say can I have the decks for 1 or 2 dollars below kickstarter price. Heck no! That would be really spitting in my supporters face.

I knew that with only about 200 or so decks left to sell. If i were to price them at 12-15$ then I would have no control over some jack knob coming on my site and buying every single one of them. I wanted everybody that had been emailing me the past few months to get a chance at buying them. Yes they are high but they still had a chance to buy them. If I would have priced them low or even above kickstarter price. Nobody would have gotten a chance. I had one wholesaler offer my $35 a deck for my entire remaining inventory. Think about how pissed you guys would have been if on the day of my web launch you went to my site and it was just pics and any where it said add to cart it said "screw you, we are sold out". It probably wouldn't have said screw you but you get the idea.

In the end, the last thing that I wanted was some cranky wholesaler that thought I owed them something because "they could get my decks in-front of more people" getting all my decks instead of the people who set alarms and stayed up late to get them from me.

[PlayingCardz]

Hi Jackson,

I was one of the resellers that tried to buy decks wholesale from you just after you opened your first KS, you accepted at first iirc.

You have some valid points for not wholesaling your decks : protecting your backers, preventing one guy to buy all your stock day 1, ... Kudos for this.

But what I don't like is your attitude toward us, you keep bashing resellers in all your latest posts, we get that you don't want to deal with us, i'm fine with this and i'll back you on KS like a regular backer, now move on please.

Thank you.

Julien.

[BLACKWHITE]

Leave Britney alone...ups - I mean - Leave Jackson alone !!

Must admit first was jealous that on other forum Jackson has offered trade for his decks like 1 deck of Federal 52 for 1 Vortex deck or 1 Bicycle Shadow Masters deck...
I've thought "daddy loves them more"... But that time Jackson was "young and stupid" and now he is fully grown wise man.
It is clear that his kids...ups I mean - decks would have better life in rich families. That's why he made price so high to be sure that only rich people would get them.
Some may say he could make limit like 1 deck or 1 set per one buyer... but only cold-hearted people could think about that! Limit for kids... I mean - decks?! No! Never!
Also good idea to keep them away from hands of these bad, ugly wholesalers who would just sell them for money!






By the way - in definition of "irony" in Wikipedia is that photo - from Baker Street tube station:

coincidence?!

[wwpierce]

I have to admit I like the "brutally honest" style that Jackson is posting in. I can only imagine the calls he receives with the car salesman tactics.. You need to "act now" and cut a deal on these decks.. or vice versa.. "If you act today, I can you in these babies for $29.95", etc.. I like the fact that he will be venturing out on his own with the next round and see what happens. Sell them how you want to sell them. People will either except the model or reject it.. plain and simple.. and Jackson will have to adjust accordingly. Jackson may burn himself because he is not selling 100 decks at a time to someone, but it keeps the exclusivity there and that means more to me personally. Have the unlimited stuff, that's fine, but keep the limited items limited in purchase.

I do not want to beat up on Encarded, but this whole resale thing was my burn with Paul on the Deco set. I was an early bird backer, but many people were in for $22 for a set. Almost immediately after the campaign ends, sets are all over Ebay for $19.95/free shipping. This is all happening before 95% of the backers have received their orders. So is it the backers who truly support the campaigns or the behind the scenes dealings that go on with the resellers? My burn was this statement from the Kickstarter homepage" After this Kickstarter, Deco will be released in the Encarded store. You will get your decks first and at a better price by pledging today!"... cough..cough... sorry Paul, I love your work, but that was either "unclear" or just plain wrong.

Look..I don't want to pay $50 for a deck or cards either. However, I look at the amount of work that goes into this deck and other Jackson decks and it exceeds expectations. Versus, the "You have the white, red, brown and black version" but now you need the "blue version" That shit gets old. I feel a lot better about my purchases this way. Nobody is forcing us to buy anything or pay higher prices. Lots of people want it... and they want it cheaper.. well boo hoo.. were all in the same boat.. I want a Ferrari, but I don't expect one to pop up in my price range anytime soon. When you can afford it or when people stop buying it, then the price may go down.

Do what you gotta do Jackson.. keep at it! My babbling rant for the morning!! Maybe I need a doughnut...

[Mike Ratledge]

Speaking specifically about the "A" vs "B" choice for how the Limited Edition went, I wish there had been a "C" instead of the two available choices. Sure, I want to see the project succeed - it already has, and I certainly want there to be 1000 decks of the original LE cards. I bought them knowing that in the past once everything got up to speed they were likely going to change to a different deck instead of just a different tuck.

Best guess is that we're not going to make the upper-level stretch goals, simply because once those 1000 LE decks were sold, sales went flat. At the current rate for the past three or four days (about $2000-$2500 per day), it will only make it to $120,000 in 20 days, which doesn't get us to the "Hound of the Baskervilles" black/white/red deck.

Choice "C" would have given it 1500 (or 2500) more "Limited Edition 2" decks - albeit with only a different tuck from the original LE. I still see that as the best path to ultimate success, and it adds $37,500 (or $62,500) available sales for those LE2 decks. Again, I understand the numbers, and I understand why it doesn't work to go to that many decks right now until we have more total funding in the project, but - if he added another LE(2) deck that had the same cards as he showed for "Option B" and also included the changed cards in the original LE decks, everybody would be happy. Well, of course, some people will scream their heads off - they always do. That would give the project plenty of impetus to get to the final stretch goal and the "Hounds" deck, which I think is the ultimate goal for everyone in the project. I wish he had set the goal-line for the "Hounds" deck just a little lower, so we have 10 days or so left for people to buy them. Again, I understand why not, but - as long as I'm wishing...

Of course, if I were simply going on my best interests, leaving things alone would mean there were less total decks, and likely a better value per deck in the end. Who's to say that the Holmes and Moriarty decks won't be the rarest of them all in the end? I'm in for 4 decks of each except the LE, and an uncut sheet. I'd love to toss some more $$ in there for LE2 and "Hounds" and maybe another uncut.

[walrus]

I also don't get Jackson's contempt for resellers. Buying in bulk and then selling at a profit is not an unusual business practice.

[Mike Ratledge]

I also don't get Jackson's contempt for resellers. Buying in bulk and then selling at a profit is not an unusual business practice.

There's a fine line between contempt and disdain for "eating my lunch". In Jackson's case, he's already got the logistics down for handling distribution himself, so where's the benefit in undercutting your own pricing? If you have someone selling them for 20% (or even 10%) less than you are yourself, you've just cut 10-20% off your bottom line (and yes, I know about the 2.75% credit card fee, etc.).

He's got the means to do it himself, he's got the reputation for doing things right. If there were tens of thousands of units per deck it would be different. In the case of the Federal 52/Gold Certificate decks, he's only got a fee hundred total between all four varieties. I see it as capitalism at its best. Even Kickstarter eats 5% off the top.

[walrus]

I also don't get Jackson's contempt for resellers. Buying in bulk and then selling at a profit is not an unusual business practice.

There's a fine line between contempt and disdain for "eating my lunch". In Jackson's case, he's already got the logistics down for handling distribution himself, so where's the benefit in undercutting your own pricing? If you have someone selling them for 20% (or even 10%) less than you are yourself, you've just cut 10-20% off your bottom line (and yes, I know about the 2.75% credit card fee, etc.).

He's got the means to do it himself, he's got the reputation for doing things right. If there were tens of thousands of units per deck it would be different. In the case of the Federal 52/Gold Certificate decks, he's only got a fee hundred total between all four varieties. I see it as capitalism at its best. Even Kickstarter eats 5% off the top.

Someday he may need them. He acts like he was shocked when he was approached by them

[rousselle]

Jackson has stated elsewhere that one of his long-standing goals was to create a limited edition, in-demand deck, which is why he would not be re-printing the Federal 52s. He also stated that he only had a couple hundred left over after fulfilling the KS rewards. He stated these before he posted the remainder for sale on his site. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who figured he'd post the decks for sale at some lower price, and immediately have them snapped up by a speculator who would turn around and resell them only at very high prices. Instead, he sold them at what was turning into the typical going rate on Ebay. This is consistent with what he had said before he put them up for sale, it is consistent with what he has said since, and why should he deliberately torpedo his own stated goals?

I, for one, hope that he ultimately pursues a Stephen King-esque approach to his work. Sure, make some of his work highly valuable, limited edition items, but also make some of his work easy to find and easy to buy. Jackson's new take on the classic design, for example, which he has shown elsewhere on this forum… would that not make an excellent staple deck? Produce it on high quality stock, with high quality finish, for sure, but in high quantities, at a reasonable price point, and available through multiple channels (direct, reseller, wholesaler, etc.). There are worse things in this world than to be the Stephen King of playing card design.

That may not fit in with his ultimate goals, and that's fine, too. There are also worse things than to produce a few small masterpieces and then walk away from the business altogether, a la J. D. Salinger.

I have no idea what the requests from the resellers were like. If some of them were jerks about it, that would be unfortunate. But, the reality of getting product into the hands of customers is that resellers are ultimately our friend, not our enemy.

Of course, to quote Dennis Miller, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[Mike Ratledge]

9 out of 10 (99%?) of the time after a Kickstarter project the artist has his hands full and money invested he'd like to get out, which is why resellers are used to getting them at a bulk rate. How many decks sold to KS backers are now available cheaper from them? Quite often. In this case, Jackson sold 90% or more of every deck. He's just being a smart businessman IMO.