Theory11 - Artisan - second edition

[BLACKWHITE]

Today I've received uncut sheets from Theory11 and noticed that sheet of Artisans was printed on April 2013 (first edition was printed November 2012) and has some changes on the cards back and colors - look at photo:

card on the sheet (on the left) is from the first edition - rest is new...

Don't know if they are already in sale or just gonna be soon...

[badpete69]

BLACKWHITE
the 2 versions of artisans have been on sale a very long time now . The first version came out in Nov 2012 and the white artisans came out ...you guessed it april 2013 hehehe

[BLACKWHITE]

Since I've bought Artisans in December 2012 didn't buy them more... also haven't seen any info or discussion about second edition... and photos on Theory11 site still show 1st edition

[badpete69]

Check the site closely they are right there they are called white artisans
http://store.theory11.com/products/white-artisans" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BLACKWHITE]

Check the site closely they are right there they are called white artisans
http://store.theory11.com/products/white-artisans" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pete, please... I am talking about Artisans (Black) not White Artisans... look closely

[badpete69]

the picture you put does look like a white artisan to me and the dates of printing match not aware of a second printing of the first artisans but you never know

[MagikFingerz]

the picture you put does look like a white artisan to me and the dates of printing match not aware of a second printing of the first artisans but you never know

It doesn't look like white artisans to me. Looking at T11's website, White Artisans doesn't have any black ink at all, only gold on white.

[BLACKWHITE]

the picture you put does look like a white artisan to me and the dates of printing match not aware of a second printing of the first artisans but you never know

It doesn't look like white artisans to me. Looking at T11's website, White Artisans doesn't have any black ink at all, only gold on white.

I was writing the same but you were faster

But must agree that graphics shape is similar to white wersion (rounded corners)...

[Wildereachday]

I wrote T11 about this in June. Here's the response I got.

"We actually did subtely change the color on the most recent Artisan decks to try to look less greenish. There was an odd tint to the old color that we weren't quite happy with, so the modified shade was used on the most recent printing."

There are three color versions of Artisans now, White, Old Black and New Black. Print date on the deck seal would probably be the only way to tell without opening the deck. My Old Blacks are 11/12, and my New Blacks are 04/13. I think they changed the color when they printed the White Artisans.

[MagikFingerz]

"Old Black" and "New Black" looks more like "Gold" and "Silver" to me

[JokerzGamez]

Well I was hoping for Silver Artisans

Just as long as they aren't like the Silver Monarchs and actually have some silver on them (in metallic inks)

[eirian]

I wrote T11 about that month ago:

ME. Hello!
Why did not you tell me that Artisans were changed? Seal with a different date, different color back - and not a word about it on the site. It does not change anything in my purchase, but I have to know this. To know what I am selling. It is very unpleasant.

T11.Given those dates are accurate to the month on when the deck was printed, it's basically assumed those will be changing with each new print cycle. We (sales) are not always privy to very small updates like this because like you said it doesn't alter the product sold or change how it is marketed.
If there are any changes or updates to any design I hear about from this point I'll be sure to pass them on. Best.

ME.Do you really think that this small changes? This is how to send Bicycle Standard Red instead Bicycle Standard Blue. Almost the same but color is very different. Where to record about it on your website? At least the new photos?

T11.Sorry I was under the impression you were just talking about the seal date change. It looks like you received two decks from two different unique print runs. Occasionally, due to the the number of print jobs we order from the US Playing Card Company, there are small differences in the deck produced from one print to another. For this reason we don't always take new pictures just because there are subtle differences, despite how large those difference may seem to you. This would also be incredibly expensive as you know.

If you're disappointed with the decks, you always have the option to return them. Let me know if you have any further questions.

ME.You changed design of the back, changed color scheme of the faces. This is a major change. It's like a new deck. Anyone of your team can make good pictures.
I'm not disappointed with the decks. I should have learned about differences from you. But I learned about it from my customers. They're hoping to see a golden glow, as on your photos. And they were very disappointed, except for collectors, of course.

T11.I will pass on your concerns to our team, always appreciate your feedback. Thank you.

[Andrei Jikh]

Yellloo, as said above, we made subtle changes. The gold(ish) version had a green tint to it so we changed it and turned out to be a bit more on the silver(ish) side. They also have thin borders on the newer edition if you notice. I'll try to make time soon to add/substitute in the latest one instead so it's more accurate.

...Wondering if I should take a whole different picture (which takes AGES) or just tweak the color in post (which wouldn't solve the thinner borders). Decisions...

[BLACKWHITE]

...Wondering if I should take a whole different picture (which takes AGES) or just tweak the color in post (which wouldn't solve the thinner borders). Decisions...

At least short info about changes in cards description would be nice... (Ellusionist have left old photos for Infinity Deck but made note about changes in new edition...)

Andrei - the question is: How is the next edition gonna look ?

As you already have seen in posts all like strong colors - gold or silver - rather not something between them

[Andrei Jikh]

Yea I'll definitely make a note of it!

The next edition is actually scheduled to be a mix of purple, brown, and a hint of holographic pink on the emboss.

Just kidding. I have absolutely no idea if we'll be modifying the next editions, doesn't look to be that way for right now but maybe some subtle detail will be changed (perhaps the sticker seal).

Our next release is going to be a game changer though - you heard it here first. Can't say what it is but... #hype #hype #hype. In all seriousness, I think it'll be hard NOT to like. Very hard.

[sinjin7]

Our next release is going to be a game changer though - you heard it here first. Can't say what it is but... #hype #hype #hype. In all seriousness, I think it'll be hard NOT to like. Very hard.

We'll see. Personally, I am a big fan of the Artisan decks, so if this new deck is actually a step up, then that will be impressive. But if its just another quasi-custom deck with simply recolored court cards and not actually game changing, then you're just a T11 shill and will lose whatever credibility you had. With the level of custom playing cards being produced by people like Jackson Robinson, Uusi, Encarded, and Randy Butterfield (just to name a few), you guys have to up your game and over-hype and under-delivery won't be tolerated anymore. We have too many options now with other people producing really great decks.

[Andrei Jikh]

"t11 shill and lose credibility", eek, it's no wonder I left this place. Perhaps you can try being a bit nicer and more courteous - I know it's hard with the anonymity and all but really - try. That helps a lot in conversations. In general really. That said, you are certainly entitled to your opinion Sinjin.

There's more to playing cards than custom faces. There's also more to cards than tuck cases too. To each his own, I'm happy there are many choices of decks that suit your personal tastes but I'm for one excited. Technically it's not our next release, it's the one that follows, closer to Christmas. Just a heads up for those who are interested.

[Sharpie]

Just a heads up for those who are interested.

Aaand, that would be me.

Thanks for the information.
Apologies for the rudeness.

[Andrei Jikh]

Just a heads up for those who are interested.

Aaand, that would be me.

Thanks for the information.
Apologies for the rudeness.

Haha thanks Sharpie. Sometimes the comments get so out of hand I almost feel like I'm responsible for running a government. "Lose all credibility and trust in your fellow man! Over promise and never deliver! OFF WITH 'YER HEAD!" Jezzuz.

[BLACKWHITE]

Andrei - I've lost count... so when these Red Monarchs gonna be?

By the way - correct form of denying is:
"I can neither confirm nor deny whether Red Monarchs will or will not be released or not released."
Zach Mueller

[Andrei Jikh]

Andrei - I've lost count... so when these Red Monarchs gonna be?

By the way - correct form of denying is:
"I can neither confirm nor deny whether Red Monarchs will or will not be released or not released."
Zach Mueller

Actually those are next, most likely on the day when people get scared and candies are a plentiful - and stuff... I can neither confirm nor deny that though.

[BLACKWHITE]

I am worried about limit on my credit card. That scares me most

[sinjin7]

"t11 shill and lose credibility", eek, it's no wonder I left this place. Perhaps you can try being a bit nicer and more courteous - I know it's hard with the anonymity and all but really - try. That helps a lot in conversations. In general really. That said, you are certainly entitled to your opinion Sinjin.

*sigh*, here we go again....

I don't think you're a normal, regular member here at UC. If you were just like the rest of us, you would participate and contribute in discussions related to playing cards in general. I don't recall you ever commenting on KS projects or other fantastic card designers like Jackson or Uusi. In fact, it seems to me the only reason you ever come here is to promote (hype) T11 products only. That is a shill. That's not a rude, derogatory term nor was it meant to be disrespectful. You are what you are.

As to the credibility comment, I am not the only member here tired of over-hype from companies like D&D, BC, E, and yes, T11. This is not the T11 message boards filled with fanboys constantly singing the praises of T11, this is UC where most of the members are sophisticated and discerning connoisseurs of playing cards. Maybe I'm just the only one with enough balls to be objectively critical to you directly since you're somewhat of a celebrity in cardistry circles and others just are content to kiss up to you, and then complain about T11 marketing practices when you're away.

You were the one promoting/hyping up an upcoming T11 deck as "game-changing". If a company constantly hypes a product as excellent, but most of the consumers find the products merely adequate to decent time after time, then of course the company will lose credibility in the eyes of its customers. I gave you the benefit of the doubt when I said, "We'll see" if it will in fact be "game-changing" in regards to this upcoming T11 deck. Can't you understand that if this deck is not, in fact, "game-changing" then you will lose credibility in our eyes? And if it is indeed game-changing, I will be among the first to buy the deck and talk about how good it is.

I am not a T11 hater, or an Andrei Jikh hater. I used to review many decks back on Decknique and the old UC, and many people who remember my reviews will attest to the fact that I am thorough and objective. I've given both favorable and unfavorable reviews to T11 decks in the past. In fact, in last years UC poll for playing card awards, I voted for the Artisan deck as my Deck of the Year. What I DO hate is over-hype with under-delivery, and I am not alone with this opinion. I'm sorry if you're thin skinned, but other deck designers come onto UC for our opinions of their work and we are honest with them, sometimes brutally so. But most of them can take constructive criticism for their benefit without comparing themselves to "running a government".

I am entitled to my opinion, as you have graciously pointed out, and I have expressed it. Personally I don't think I was being rude, but rather factual, and I certainly do not make my comments because I can hide behind anonymity. Please send me a PM and I will be happy to give you my name and contact information to my law firm so you can know exactly who I am. I look forward to T11's game-changing deck.

[Andrei Jikh]

Awesome, glad to hear it!

This has nothing to do with taking criticism, you crossed that line a long time ago. Criticism pushes us to be better and theory11 gets hundreds of emails a day for requests and possible changes/improvements. Those trailers you see for the effects and cards, are often times the fifth or sixth different draft of constantly going back to the drawing board - that's criticism. It's very frustrating, but in the end also very rewarding.

What you're doing is far from that. If I truly speak my mind, you wouldn't like the way I spoke with you, as you do with me. I don't want to give you ammo to say I'm "representing the company in a negative light", or anyone else for that matter as attempted in the past. I understand that sometimes I do sound like a salesman. But trust me, I'm not here to sell you an object that costs as much as a cup of coffee.

I post here because I've been doing cardistry longer than some people have been alive on this forum. I'm passionate about what I do and whom I work with. Speak for yourself, not for others. I understand you're entitled to your opinions, just not your own facts as you'd like to think. I would post here a lot more often if there was more essence about what inspires and drives us - rather than the next cutesie conspiracy theories you and your friends concoct out of boredom or who can say the most vile shit out of their mouth so they can pat each other on the back in their own illusion as they somehow "figured out the real truth and have the balls to say it". Please, let's leave it at that.

[montecarlojoe]

...rather than the next cutesie conspiracy theories you and your friends concoct out of boredom or who can say the most vile shit out of their mouth so they can pat each other on the back in their own illusion as they somehow "figured out the real truth and have the balls to say it"

I think that that is a little unfair. We do recognise that you are obviously passionate about what you do - and fair enough there is more to cards than art for the cardists and performers out there.
We also recognise that you are a business man - you need to make a living and it's understandable that you want to promote your product, and enhance income streams whilst minimising outgoings. Sometimes new editiond of cards with straightforward recolouring is the best way to achieve that. Fine. No problem at all.

However that road goes both ways;
We live in a time where austerity, rising costs of living, 0 interest rates and static (at best) wages mean that we have less and less to spend on luxuries like this. We have to become more and more selective in a market that is being flooded with product and new talent vying for our hard earned coin.
In the modern world we are also being sold to every minute of every day. We tune out advertising, hype leaves us cold - repels us even.
Whether we are designers, collectors, cardists, performers or resellers we ARE passionate, as you are, about our hobby/livelihood. But we are also experienced, intelligent and discerning. A deck of cards, at the end of a day is just a deck of cards.

We appreciate a well shot trailer, the skill of the performer, the lighting, directing, etc. But the moment we're told that the deck of cards is any more than that (the infinity trail is a great example) many of us will be turned off. If the next big release is the exact same deck as before in construction and design with some colour grading, many of us will be left unimpressed.

You shouldn't have to tolerate insult (IMO sinjin7 was fairly reasonable and impersonal - though terms he used in a literal sense could have been seen as derogatory), and neither should we. ("vile shit", really?)

As I said that road of recognition runs both ways - we are your consumers and your audience. If we complain about recolours being cheap then talk to us about what else is new and innovative - new stock, finish, manufacturing process, change in cut, etc.; how do these things enhance performance, why are these innovations novel and interesting?

Share your passion and we will return it in spades (see what I did there? ). Come here to make a sale... well when was the last time you bought something from someone who knocked on your door?

Don't get me wrong - I don't want this to be seen as an attack, I just think that taking a breath and seeing things from the other guy's point of view can only lead to better discussion in the future.
I love the Artisans too - I have white and will be picking up black at some point - and the info about the colour tweaks in the reprint was really interesting - thanks for taking the time to share.

[sinjin7]

If I truly speak my mind, you wouldn't like the way I spoke with you, as you do with me. . . I would post here a lot more often if there was more essence about what inspires and drives us - rather than the next cutesie conspiracy theories you and your friends concoct out of boredom or who can say the most vile shit out of their mouth so they can pat each other on the back in their own illusion as they somehow "figured out the real truth and have the balls to say it". Please, let's leave it at that.

I've reviewed my posts where I've interacted directly with you, and I haven't found any comments that I consider crossing the lines of civil discourse. I never went after you personally, nor have I ever used profanity, like you have. If my criticism of T11's marketing strategy constitutes "vile $#!t out of my mouth", then I envy your sheltered life because there are way worse things in this world that is actually vile, certainly not my opinions of the company you work for.

You're a passionate guy who's going to defend your employer no matter what, and that's fine - even commendable. As long as you and T11 continue to hype game-changing decks, I'll continue to have my low opinion of all that. We'll agree to disagree and not take up anymore valuable forum time with our disagreement. I welcome you to PM me and truly speak your mind, my feelings won't be hurt.

[alric]

I like that Andrei makes occasional appearances here to give us heads up on T11 products. I don't mind any profanity, we're all adults here. But I have to say, vile shit wasn't coming out of sinjin's mouth, that's a bit of an exaggeration, kinda like T11 marketing of their decks, right?

Anyways, getting back to the new Artisans, are they still wrapped in cellophane in side the deck like the original ones were? The White Artisans were'nt wrapped inside, so I'm assuming the new Artisans aren't either, but I'd like to get confirmation on that from anyone who's ordered the second editions. One of the reasons I liked the first Artisans so much was the fact that the cards were wrapped inside the tuck box, so if T11 isn't wrapping them inside anymore, than I'm going to have to look on the secondary market for mor of the first editions.

[rousselle]

When I opened up my 04-13 Artisans, I do not recall any additional cellophane wrapping inside the tuck. Same as White Artisans. If anyone else had a different experience, please advise. Parts of me are perfect, but not my memory....

[Decknowledgy]

Just in from T11's Insta:

Something Secret. Soon.

[vasta41]

MetalLuxe I bet. And I'm in.