Quicksilver Deck - Circle City Cards

[walrus]

Yeah, I hate to say it but after this mess I'm probably out on CCC. If Rus were to come on here and lays it all on the line I might give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, he did bring us the Americana. He also kept the forum going for a while. One thing that bothered me were a couple of people were comparing him to Alex Yusupov, creator of the VORTEX DECK. This I don't think is true. The did not have scam intentions when he started this deck.

[chess]

I ordered some off his website a while back and eventually got them almost a month after I had ordered them. But the ones I got didn't have any metallic ink. That is a huge disappointment as it was one of the only reasons why I bought it. Was the retail version different than the kickstarter one?

[rousselle]

I ordered some off his website a while back and eventually got them almost a month after I had ordered them. But the ones I got didn't have any metallic ink. That is a huge disappointment as it was one of the only reasons why I bought it. Was the retail version different than the kickstarter one?

The same thing happened to me -- I ordered three decks of Quicksilver from the CCC site. After a month of not receiving them, I sent Russell an e-mail inquiring about my order. He replied with a quick "sorry about that" and sent out the decks. But, when I got them... no metallic ink on the cards, no silver foil on the tuck box. I do like the design of the court cards, but like chess above, I was disappointed, as I was excited to see how the metallic ink effect would look. (Note: I had the same experience with the Brimstone deck in terms of both order fulfillment and lack of metallic ink, as well, so I wasn't *too* surprised.)

Then, a few weeks later, I noticed a couple Quicksilver decks available for sale at my local games store. The tuck box, unlike what CCC had sent me, was embossed and had the metallic silver foil hotstamp. Curiousity got the better of me, and I shelled out the money to find out if the cards inside had the metallic ink printing.

They didn't.

So... were there decks that have the metallic silver ink printing on the cards? Anybody know?

I asked Russell via PM on the CCC Facebook account, and like others here, have received no reply. I have read elsewhere that posts on CCC's Facebook wall that are less than positive will be removed, or at least they have been in the past, and I had no desire to alienate Russell, which is why I kept my question private at the time. Russell's designs are very appealing to me, and I've acquired his CCC and his HOPC cards. But as others here have stated, his lack of responsiveness and slow order fulfillment (and then, only when prompted) have made me wary of ordering anything directly from CCC again, or backing any KS campaign of his. (I, too, am still waiting for a refund for backing the Army Deck, which I realize isn't Russell's design, but it was touted as a CCC deck at the time.)

I have many introverted friends who are talented in many areas but who hate, hate, hate to answer the phone or respond to e-mails. I'm inclined to give Russell the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his intentions with regard to his business. It's a shame to see his business lose the trust it had started to build up around his brand. But shipping decks without the metallic ink, and with different tuck boxes, and the lack of responsiveness (and, allegedly, removing any negative posts from his FB wall) do not inspire confidence, to say the least.

Quicksilvers.jpg (22.91 KiB) Viewed 2141 times

(one of these tuckboxes is not like the other)

Quicksilver Tucks.jpg (184.69 KiB) Viewed 2141 times

(larger version of the image. Can you guess which one has the grey printing, and which one has the silver foil stamp?)

I would genuinely like to know if there are decks out there with the metallic ink on the cards themselves (both for Quicksilver and for Brimstone), and I hope that at some point, Russell decides to get back in the game. But it's going to take a little bit of time for him rehabilitate the trust that he is losing....

[chess]

I was going to buy one of the decks with the silver foil on the case, but I will pass now that you made that mistake for me.

[Bikefanatic]

It's on the KS, only those who pledged get the foiled tuck. If you get them from CCC, like I did, they probably won't be foiled.

[Brillig]

It's on the KS, only those who pledged get the foiled tuck.

It appears that a number of us who pledged get the "Curses, foiled again" tuck.

[cosmicsecret]

I'm waiting for my 2 decks....and its not funny that he isnt answering to any kind of communication.
Some people suspect that he pulled a Adam on the kickstarter backers and spend most of the money already so that he cant ship the decks out.
I personally will never buy anything from this Company/Russell again.
There is NO excuse for such a behavior....especially that people who order from his website are getting their cards....before all kickstarter backers had theirs.

[rousselle]

It's on the KS, only those who pledged get the foiled tuck. If you get them from CCC, like I did, they probably won't be foiled.

Ahhh. I did not see that. Now I know, and all well and good. Thank you for responding.

Now, then... is that why the cards don't have metallic silver ink? Has anybody received these decks with metallic silver ink on the cards themselves?

[rousselle]

I was going to buy one of the decks with the silver foil on the case, but I will pass now that you made that mistake for me.

[Bikefanatic]

I'm sure the foiled tucks are not hard to find. He mentioned a third deck to this series but after all this going on, who knows what will happen.

[walrus]

Russ, if you still stop by and read these I hope you get out all the DECKS and come on here and explain yourself. You probably lost a lot of followers but a few of us would like to see you get your doo doo together and get back to making good cards. Perhaps you are not into after this but I would love to see more of your decks. Don't pull an Alex Yusupov, creator of the VORTEX DECK on us, come back.

[dcell59]

Yeah, I hate to say it but after this mess I'm probably out on CCC. If Rus were to come on here and lays it all on the line I might give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, he did bring us the Americana. He also kept the forum going for a while. One thing that bothered me were a couple of people were comparing him to Alex Yusupov, creator of the VORTEX DECK. This I don't think is true. The did not have scam intentions when he started this deck.

The problem with that view is that many (most) people got their cards from Alex. It's hard for me to accept that either of them intended to scam people from the start, but at this point I do feel scammed by Russell. He implied that he would ship fast, but even if I get my cards today, Alex will have done a better job getting my cards to me. Also, it says on the main KS page "GREY WILL BE METALLIC SILVER INK", but I'm hearing that the cards are just grey ink.

[walrus]

Yeah, I hate to say it but after this mess I'm probably out on CCC. If Rus were to come on here and lays it all on the line I might give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, he did bring us the Americana. He also kept the forum going for a while. One thing that bothered me were a couple of people were comparing him to Alex Yusupov, creator of the VORTEX DECK. This I don't think is true. The did not have scam intentions when he started this deck.

The problem with that view is that many (most) people got their cards from Alex. It's hard for me to accept that either of them intended to scam people from the start, but at this point I do feel scammed by Russell. He implied that he would ship fast, but even if I get my cards today, Alex will have done a better job getting my cards to me. Also, it says on the main KS page "GREY WILL BE METALLIC SILVER INK", but I'm hearing that the cards are just grey ink.

When did most people get their cards from Alex. Does that mean ripping of a certain amount of people is alright. Does that mean stealing 500 USD from one person is alright as long as a certain amount get their decks. Sounds like you are doing Alex math.

[walrus]

Yeah, I hate to say it but after this mess I'm probably out on CCC. If Rus were to come on here and lays it all on the line I might give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, he did bring us the Americana. He also kept the forum going for a while. One thing that bothered me were a couple of people were comparing him to Alex Yusupov, creator of the VORTEX DECK. This I don't think is true. The did not have scam intentions when he started this deck.

The problem with that view is that many (most) people got their cards from Alex. It's hard for me to accept that either of them intended to scam people from the start, but at this point I do feel scammed by Russell. He implied that he would ship fast, but even if I get my cards today, Alex will have done a better job getting my cards to me. Also, it says on the main KS page "GREY WILL BE METALLIC SILVER INK", but I'm hearing that the cards are just grey ink.

So it is alright to scam a hundred people if you sent decks to most others. It is alright to steal 500 USD from one person as long as a lot got their order. Sounds like scam math.

[badpete69]

I say they are all a bunch of chumps. Taking 8 months to ship your product is very unprofessional no matter what your initial intent was, especially when you already produced other decks in the past. But that's what you get when you have young inexperienced project creators that in the end don't seem to care that much about their customers

[BMPokerworld]

Yeah, I hate to say it but after this mess I'm probably out on CCC. If Rus were to come on here and lays it all on the line I might give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, he did bring us the Americana. He also kept the forum going for a while. One thing that bothered me were a couple of people were comparing him to Alex Yusupov, creator of the VORTEX DECK. This I don't think is true. The did not have scam intentions when he started this deck.

The problem with that view is that many (most) people got their cards from Alex. It's hard for me to accept that either of them intended to scam people from the start, but at this point I do feel scammed by Russell. He implied that he would ship fast, but even if I get my cards today, Alex will have done a better job getting my cards to me. Also, it says on the main KS page "GREY WILL BE METALLIC SILVER INK", but I'm hearing that the cards are just grey ink.

Just because you actually got your cards from Alex doesn't make what he did right. I understand you said he did a better job on YOUR order, but on a whole, the project is way worse because he just stopped shipping the remaining decks out. If you check Alex's profile on KS, it shows he checked in on July 1st. Why doesn't he respond to his backers? Why, because he ripped them off and in my opinion, he probably planned to from the beginning. That is why he used an alias and I know for a fact he spent the money because he bought $600 worth of cards from me using his Amazon account and then tried to scam me out of the money. That is the very same account the money was transferred to for the vortex decks. BTW, Alex also promised metallic ink on his deck if the project reached a certain goal, right? And what happened? He gave a BS excuse as to why he couldn't do it. The bottom line was simply because he wanted to pocket an extra $500 instead of using the metallic ink as he promised he would.

Russell has screwed this project up royally and I am not sticking up for him one bit, but his situation is completely different from Alex's situation. As much as it pains me to say this, Russell is just not business savvy enough to handle projects after the design portion, and here is why. Below are the costs for a branded Bicycle deck, when printing 5,000 decks and using KS:

5,000 decks @ $2.54 per deck
Shipping @ $2.02 per deck (Based on a 1 deck order)
Packaging @ $.0.30 per deck (Based on a 1 deck order)
KS/Amazon Fees $0.70 per deck (Based on his $7.00 selling price for 1 deck)
Embossing & Foil $0.80 per deck (Based on what Russell told me he paid for that upgrade)
USPCC Art Charge $0.19 per deck (Based on a $930 artwork charge divided by 5,000 decks)

Total Cost $6.55 per deck (Based on someone purchasing 1 deck)

So basically he has $0.45 profit per single deck order, to create the artwork, package the order and make a profit. That is no where near enough of money to do it. Then he does other things that don't make any sense, like sell the dice at his cost. We are all here to make a profit and not give things away, right? So why do it then? It is his lack of business experience, in my opinion, because he clearly does not know what his costs are. And what about the extra weight the dice will add? What about the free velvet bag? So they aren't actually being sold at cost, they are being sold at a loss!!!!

Go take a look at the KS pictures that show the packages. What do you see? You see packages that has a return address label, a shipping address label and no postage. That means the postage STILL has to be added, right? So he is now handling the packages 3 times; once to put the address label on it, once to put the return address label on it and once to put the postage on it. Does that make sense to anyone? When you buy from me, does it have 3 different items on it or just one label with everything on it? It takes a 100 times longer to do things the way Russell is doing them. Again a lack of business savvy.

In addition, go look at his KS page and you will see he is selling the first 100 decks for $5.00 per deck including shipping to the US & Canada.. That has got to be one of the dumbest things I have seen on KS. Why would you want to sell the first 100 decks at a loss after already having 2 successful KS projects? Again that makes no sense. To make matters worse, he is only charging $3.00 to ship a single deck internationally. That, plus the money he has in the decks to ship to the US, wasn't enough to cover the postage and KS/Amazon fees even BEFORE the huge postal increase.

At the end of the day, Russell is probably taking money out of his own pocket for this project because of his incompetence in handling the business end of the campaign. Russell is in the negative and I am sure he is doing everything possible to get everyone their decks as soon as possible. Alex on the other hand, just spent everyone's money on himself because he is just a lowlife. I hope everyone gets their decks eventually and I hope Russell learns for this experience. I have no ill will toward Russell, only empathy. He just does not have the necessary business savvy to be handling the back end of a campaign and now everyone has to suffer because of this.

Thanks!

[Brillig]

Russell has screwed this project up royally and I am not sticking up for him one bit, but his situation is completely different from Alex's situation. As much as it pains me to say this, Russell is just not business savvy enough to handle projects after the design portion, and here is why. Below are the costs for a branded Bicycle deck, when printing 5,000 decks and using KS:

5,000 decks @ $2.54 per deck
Shipping @ $2.02 per deck (Based on a 1 deck order)
Packaging @ $.0.30 per deck (Based on a 1 deck order)
KS/Amazon Fees $0.70 per deck (Based on his $7.00 selling price for 1 deck)
Embossing & Foil $0.80 per deck (Based on what Russell told me he paid for that upgrade)
USPCC Art Charge $0.19 per deck (Based on a $930 artwork charge divided by 5,000 decks)

Total Cost $6.55 per deck (Based on someone purchasing 1 deck)

So basically he has $0.45 profit per single deck order, to create the artwork, package the order and make a profit. That is no where near enough of money to do it. Then he does other things that don't make any sense, like sell the dice at his cost. We are all here to make a profit and not give things away, right? So why do it then? It is his lack of business experience, in my opinion, because he clearly does not know what his costs are. And what about the extra weight the dice will add? What about the free velvet bag? So they aren't actually being sold at cost, they are being sold at a loss!!!!

I appreciate the detailed analysis, and it certainly explains a lot. What I don't understand is why Russell doesn't just admit that he's run out of money and he's shipping when he can scrape up the money to do so? Unless perhaps he's relying on the website sales of decks that have been committed to some backers in order to fulfill some of the others.

[Eoghann]

I appreciate the detailed analysis, and it certainly explains a lot. What I don't understand is why Russell doesn't just admit that he's run out of money and he's shipping when he can scrape up the money to do so? Unless perhaps he's relying on the website sales of decks that have been committed to some backers in order to fulfill some of the others.

Don't take my word for it, but I think admitting that he doesn't have the money to make the decks happen can carry some major legal implications. Even refunding the money might not be a possibility since he's most likely used it all up on logistics and whatever fees that went into the process.

[dcell59]

Yeah, I hate to say it but after this mess I'm probably out on CCC. If Rus were to come on here and lays it all on the line I might give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, he did bring us the Americana. He also kept the forum going for a while. One thing that bothered me were a couple of people were comparing him to Alex Yusupov, creator of the VORTEX DECK. This I don't think is true. The did not have scam intentions when he started this deck.

The problem with that view is that many (most) people got their cards from Alex. It's hard for me to accept that either of them intended to scam people from the start, but at this point I do feel scammed by Russell. He implied that he would ship fast, but even if I get my cards today, Alex will have done a better job getting my cards to me. Also, it says on the main KS page "GREY WILL BE METALLIC SILVER INK", but I'm hearing that the cards are just grey ink.

So it is alright to scam a hundred people if you sent decks to most others. It is alright to steal 500 USD from one person as long as a lot got their order. Sounds like scam math.

Of course not, and that is my point. Until Russell ships all of the cards out as promised, he is no better than Alex.

[dcell59]

I appreciate the detailed analysis, and it certainly explains a lot. What I don't understand is why Russell doesn't just admit that he's run out of money and he's shipping when he can scrape up the money to do so? Unless perhaps he's relying on the website sales of decks that have been committed to some backers in order to fulfill some of the others.

Don't take my word for it, but I think admitting that he doesn't have the money to make the decks happen can carry some major legal implications. Even refunding the money might not be a possibility since he's most likely used it all up on logistics and whatever fees that went into the process.

He doesn't have to admit it publicly. He could just PM people. Heck, if it's a matter of money for shipping, I'll be happy to send him some money. As it is, I spent $172 for nothing - if he needs $15 to ship it, he just needs to tell me. The same goes for Timothy Niou (Core) and the beta17 (Ultraviolet) people. At this point, I just get ignored by all of them.

[Brillig]

He doesn't have to admit it publicly. He could just PM people. Heck, if it's a matter of money for shipping, I'll be happy to send him some money. As it is, I spent $172 for nothing - if he needs $15 to ship it, he just needs to tell me. The same goes for Timothy Niou (Core) and the beta17 (Ultraviolet) people. At this point, I just get ignored by all of them.

That's an excellent thought. At this point, I would (grudgingly) pay for shipment. It would have to be COD, though, the well of trust has run dry.

[lurch]

Over a month of no contact, updates, nor cards. At least the other CCC guy Adam eventually refunded my money. I think its safe to say that between Quicksilver and Army Men CCC is finished barring a very good explanation and business plan for another project. Who in their right mind would be willing to front any money to these guys otherwise?

[BMPokerworld]

Over a month of no contact, updates, nor cards. At least the other CCC guy Adam eventually refunded my money. I think its safe to say that between Quicksilver and Army Men CCC is finished barring a very good explanation and business plan for another project. Who in their right mind would be willing to front any money to these guys otherwise?

Please, you still have people willing to give Alex from the Vortex deck money.

Thanks!

[rousselle]

And, I'll note that Adam hasn't refunded *everybody* yet (myself included).

[DukeBoy]

And, I'll note that Adam hasn't refunded *everybody* yet (myself included).

me either and I sent in the SASE the 1st day that he announced refunds.

[dcell59]

Over a month of no contact, updates, nor cards. At least the other CCC guy Adam eventually refunded my money. I think its safe to say that between Quicksilver and Army Men CCC is finished barring a very good explanation and business plan for another project. Who in their right mind would be willing to front any money to these guys otherwise?

Please, you still have people willing to give Alex from the Vortex deck money.

Thanks!

There are still people who believe Kickstarter and Amazon will protect you from scams. Even so, many people don't even read the comments, and have no idea what has happened with a project after they receive their items. There are plenty of people who received their Quicksilver, Revision1, or Vortex cards early on and never went back to see how things turned out. The last I checked, there were still people waiting for their Spectrum and Revision1 decks.

And I'm no longer surprised when someone says "worth the wait" when the wait had nothing to do with the quality of the items or how difficult it was to ship.

[lurch]

Didn't want this project to slip off of the front page. Still waiting on my decks and Russ has been MIA for over a month.

[walrus]

What makes these matters worse is all three of them Alex, Russ and Adam presented themselves as decent an appreciative when funding began. I said I would have been willing to give Russ another chance but that was before I noticed he has gone silent for so long. That indicates something other than mathematical error. I expected it from Alex but Rus took me by surprise. It seems far to easy for KS creators to get away with this. Look at Alex, he stole thousands of dollars from a bunch of kids and still runs a playing card forum. I think Adam has his hand in a few KS projects going on. Lots of chunks in the KS armor.

[Brillig]

There are still people who believe Kickstarter and Amazon will protect you from scams.

Well, it doesn't help that Kickstarter says that they protect you from scams.

[MagikFingerz]

What makes these matters worse is all three of them Alex, Russ and Adam presented themselves as decent an appreciative when funding began. I said I would have been willing to give Russ another chance but that was before I noticed he has gone silent for so long. That indicates something other than mathematical error. I expected it from Alex but Rus took me by surprise. It seems far to easy for KS creators to get away with this. Look at Alex, he stole thousands of dollars from a bunch of kids and still runs a playing card forum. I think Adam has his hand in a few KS projects going on. Lots of chunks in the KS armor.

Same here. Russell always seemed like a good guy, when Adam's R1 was a no-show I'm pretty sure he helped out more people with getting their decks than Adam himself (including myself). It's a shame to see someone like that fall from grace, he made some great contributions to the world of collectible playing cards.