Kingstar Carat Cases - Misleading the Public?

[BaconWise]

I don't usually like to bring negativity to the forefront, but this situation has me scratching my head and it has me more than just a bit livid.
Sherman (shermjack on UC) with Carat Case Creations has been a pillar of our community for years and his carat cases, deck sleeves, and custom campaign cases are a staple of this industry. I challenge anyone to find a business that is more professional and more involved with the community than CCC.
It was a bit of a shock to see Kingstar Playing Cards selling cases of their own manufacturing (which is fine) while using the same product name as CCC. Kingstar has been very highly-regarded by the community (by myself as well) for their unique and fantastic decks and their printing quality is gaining them a lot of attention by some big name designers lately. That goodwill has been tarnished, in my opinion, by this recent revelation that they are blatantly misleading the public.
The Carat X1 is the exact name used by CCC. This feels disrespectful to CCC and to those who know and use his products. I am sure Kingstar's cases are high-quality, but this sales tactic is co-opting the reputation Sherman has cultivated over the years for their own benefit. This is deceitful and I am hoping that some attention can be made to a. make buyers aware that these products are not CCC products, despite the identical name, and b. request the product name be changed to something unique and not misleading.
We need to look out for each other and treasure those in the community who have helped shape the card community to what it is today. I think Kingstar has something to answer for here and it shouldn't be swept under the rug.

[acetofive]

Agreed. Not cool.

[kevork]

Thanks for shedding light on this, Jamie.

[bdawg923]

Wasn't kingstar accused of copyright infringement awhile back too? Haven't bought anything of theirs since then.

[acetofive]

bdawg - some discussion on reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/playingcards/c ... _learning/

[GandalfPC]

Sounds like a family fight to me - a dispute over one deck that both seem to feel they have rights to. Doesn’t put me off. Carat issue puts me off far more - assuming it puts Sherm off.

[JazzBaloo]

Sounds like a family fight to me - a dispute over one deck that both seem to feel they have rights to. Doesn’t put me off. Carat issue puts me off far more - assuming it puts Sherm off.

Your are only bothered if he is bothered? That sounds funny.

[bdawg923]

bdawg - some discussion on reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/playingcards/c ... _learning/

Ye I read all that. It's one person's word against another's. Just because Pa_trick_zhu on Instagram said kingstar isn't to blame doesn't make it true. For all I know he works at kingstar.

[shermjack]

Thanks everyone for their support, I am truly humbled by the communities response to this situation! Patrick Zhu had informed Kingstar of this issue and has helped resolve it as soon as he found out about it. Thanks, Patrick and Kingstar for responding in such a quick and professional manner.

[ZeYang01]

bdawg - some discussion on reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/playingcards/c ... _learning/

"Dragon" was designed by lemonKT, the current designer of kingstar，this work is also one of his personal graduation design achievements.The Acelion version of this work was created during the Acelion period when we jointly held shares with wjpc.The copyright of this work belongs to us, and wjpc violated the contract and printed and sold them privately.

Because we were not satisfied with the material of the original version of PVC, we made a new version when we founded King Star.

[GandalfPC]

I added a question mark to the end of the “misleading the public” in the subject - but I feel that is only half the fix desired.

[ZeYang01]

I added a question mark to the end of the “misleading the public” in the subject - but I feel that is only half the fix desired.

Once again, I apologize for the wrong use of the name "carat"! We have no intention of misleading consumers through this name.
The reason for this problem is that our China employees think that all acrylic cases are called "carat".
Moreover, the size of our acrylic cases is different from that of "carat", it is made for the size of our card tucks, which is bigger.
We have corrected this mistake. Thank you for your concern and suggestions. We will pay attention to every opinion. Thank!

[acetofive]

Thank you (all) for the updates.

[BaconWise]

I added a question mark to the end of the “misleading the public” in the subject - but I feel that is only half the fix desired.

Once again, I apologize for the wrong use of the name "carat"! We have no intention of misleading consumers through this name.
The reason for this problem is that our China employees think that all acrylic cases are called "carat".
Moreover, the size of our acrylic cases is different from that of "carat", it is made for the size of our card tucks, which is bigger.
We have corrected this mistake. Thank you for your concern and suggestions. We will pay attention to every opinion. Thank!

The Kingstar response is great, but the issue goes beyond the "carat" misunderstanding. The X1 designation is just as important here. I am glad there has been a resolution that Sherman is satisfied with, but the fact of the matter is that Carat X1 was used in its intirety and that can't be attributed to a translation error.

[ZeYang01]

I added a question mark to the end of the “misleading the public” in the subject - but I feel that is only half the fix desired.

Once again, I apologize for the wrong use of the name "carat"! We have no intention of misleading consumers through this name.
The reason for this problem is that our China employees think that all acrylic cases are called "carat".
Moreover, the size of our acrylic cases is different from that of "carat", it is made for the size of our card tucks, which is bigger.
We have corrected this mistake. Thank you for your concern and suggestions. We will pay attention to every opinion. Thank!

The Kingstar response is great, but the issue goes beyond the "carat" misunderstanding. The X1 designation is just as important here. I am glad there has been a resolution that Sherman is satisfied with, but the fact of the matter is that Carat X1 was used in its intirety and that can't be attributed to a translation error.

It may be interpreted as × N, an acrylic cases with x n grids,we didn't know X1 was the ccc specification name.We apologize for this.
Once again, this naming is just a mistake caused by employees not knowing the correct name. We have no idea to mislead consumers into thinking that it is produced by ccc.

[chad_99]

No reason to continuously apologize ZeYang01. You corrected the issue and that’s the main issue.
Not sure why Bacon thinks there is more to this. But thanks for letting us initially know. But you can now let it go now dude. More to life than worrying about the name to a plastic box for playing cards that says X1 X2 XYZ69

[zlexander]

I would add my response from Facebook

That’s not okay. However, it could be due to the fact that they’re a CN based company (they were only selling in CN before goin INTL a few months back) and might not know the proper terminology used by international collectors. I’ve encountered sellers who refer to acrylic cases as 'carat cases,' even when they aren’t made by CCC. They might think that’s how international customers refer to the cases and the sizes. I’ll reach out to them and share this information. If it’s a genuine mistake, I believe they’ll be open to changing it, as they’ve always been respectful to the international community.

And this was the case . I think x1 x2 they thought it as number of decks (x) as the Carat Cases are named . They have apologised and I feel its a genuine mistake as Ive seen seller referring to Acryclic Cases as Carat Cases 99% of time irrespective of the maker . I dont think there is need to stretch this issue . There are deck sleeves and mostly people refer to them as DS1 irrespective the Creator , I believe most just think of it as a common term used in Playing Cards world . That being said I would suggest they can change the name to Kingstar Shield sounds cool . Kingstar has been really generous and respectful to the INTL community so I don’t doubt their authenticity much.

[shermjack]

More to life than worrying about the name to a plastic box for playing cards that says X1 X2 XYZ69

Unless that name represents a brand that you have spent the past 9 years building a solid reputation for and is misappropriated, regardless of whether it was intentional or not.

It is humbling that both 'Carat" and 'DS1', terminology that I came up with, are considered the de facto names for acrylic cases and foldable PET boxes, but it doesn't mean that I am OK with the fact that these names are used for products that are not produced by me. Since I started Carat Case Creations in 2015, I have stood solidly behind all of products that I have produced and if there were any issues with them, I would immediately do my best to resolve the issue to the satisfaction of all, even if it means that am out of pocket. It does my brand no good when others are mis-using the Carat name to sell products that are not produced to my stringent standards.

Thanks again to Patrick and Kingston for addressing the issue in a timely manner, but please note that this is not a matter that I take lightly as it involves my hard work and reputation.

[Fenrir]

No reason to continuously apologize ZeYang01. You corrected the issue and that’s the main issue.
Not sure why Bacon thinks there is more to this. But thanks for letting us initially know. But you can now let it go now dude. More to life than worrying about the name to a plastic box for playing cards that says X1 X2 XYZ69

Must be nice to live such an entitled life without consideration for anyone else or how the world works.

Should step into someone else’s shoes one day.

[Honeybee]

Certainly not the usual style of a first UC post

[GandalfPC]

Well it may not have been a normal users first post, but it is pretty normal for the person who, while banned, returned under a new username to post.

Re-banned.

[kevork]

Didn't take him long to find himself back in Oath's Patreon. Was wondering who that was.

[JazzBaloo]

I don't see why people are overly bothered or offended by what the Chad said. It seems quite harmless to me and certainly not something I would try to get mods to ban someone for. It really is like a club here where if you don't agree with or don't sugar coat things in regards to certain people, the gang will correct you. It's like some people have carte blanche to be as rude as they like while others are held to the fire for less. I like to discuss things with people who have different opinions instead of only wanting to hear people that agree with me. That is a boring bubble to live in. It looks like the issue was resolved and zeyang was very respectful and reasonable. It was the right response as we know because the branding Sherm created is his. If someone thinks that it's not a big deal as Chad did then why not discuss it more rather than make rude comments and try to ban him? His comment said that it was good it was resolved and thanked op for bringing it to attention and then ended with him not seeing it as a big deal and saying let it go. Now instead of maybe enlightening him to your perspectives with dialog, he is told he has an entitled life and doesn't care about anyone and then questions of banning arise. This seems extreme to me. Perhaps him saying let it go was in response to Jaime implying there was something more nefarious going on than a translation error.

[GandalfPC]

To be clear “chad” was not banned for anything he said while using the name “chad”. He was banned for things he said while using the last name he used, which was not the first time he had that happen either.

I might have let a banned person return, once, if they behaved - a second time will get you on double secret probation at least - three times and he still can’t be on best behavior wasn’t even a question.

[JazzBaloo]

That being said I would suggest they can change the name to Kingstar Shield sounds cool .

Yes to Kingstar Shields. Sounds cool af.

[JazzBaloo]

To be clear “chad” was not banned for anything he said while using the name “chad”. He was banned for things he said while using the last name he used, which was not the first time he had that happen either.

I might have let a banned person return, once, if they behaved - a second time will get you on double secret probation at least - three times and he still can’t be on best behavior wasn’t even a question.

I did understand he was banned for trying to circumvent his previous ban but it did play out the way I described it. Some people didn't like what he said and began seeking a ban. EDIT... after reading again, one person essentially called him a piece of crap and the next person started eluding to a ban. That's how I saw it but everyone is different.

[GandalfPC]

I have seen 3 or 4 people get banned since I have been a mod here. To my memory all have been the same person.

[JazzBaloo]

Hehe 3 or 4 accounts if it's been the same person.
P.s. I'm having fun with myself so please don't look for directions if I lost you.

[GandalfPC]

Yes, 4 accounts. Though I have vague memory of one other user that was banned for a few days the permanent bans have all been for the same human being using 4 different accounts.

[JazzBaloo]

Yes, 4 accounts. Though I have vague memory of one other user that was banned for a few days the permanent bans have all been for the same human being using 4 different accounts.

Yes of course we can walk the same path now, let your feet take us where they want to go.