Frontier Playing Cards by Kings Wild Project

[wingedpotato]

Jackson's kinda non-answer aside, the problematic part is that, as a deck title without the story behind it, it can easily appear that JR endorses the concept and still believes that westward expansion was "Manifest Destiny." He's created a potential minefield with such a simple fix.

[JazzBaloo]

Civilizations absolutely intended to conquer the land and the people on it... all throughout history and to this day. Governments are more diplomatic these days but savagery still occurs.

[alric]

I had a family friend who lost his 6 year old daughter during the Sandy Hook school shooting, she would be looking forward to her sophomore year in college right now if it wasn't for that. So yeah, I'm over gratuitous gun imagery. Frontier life wasn't just about the gun toting wild wild west, it was also about mining (gold rush), agriculture, railroads, Pony Express, and ranching, just to name a few things. Given it's theme, I guess the other suits will feature the genocide of native Indians and the armed annexation of Texas from Mexicans. The fact that Jackson is calling this deck Manifest Destiny and leading out with courts packing heat made this a non-starter for me.

Aside from the misguided theme, I really stopped buying KW decks due to the quality drop off once he switched to his "secret" Chinese printer. There's too many quality decks being produced today that don't clump and warp into the shape of the letter "u". I'm guessing Jackson's response to this will be, "Don't tread on me", or practice more.

[GandalfTheWhite]

Has anyone watched the TV show 1883 (prequel to the Yellowstone TV series)? One of the best shows in my opinion. It is at a high-level story line that follows the Dutton family as they flee poverty in Texas and embark on a journey through the Great Plains to seek a better future in Montana.

If anyone likes Red Dead Redemption and or likes the old Clint Eastwood's Westerns (The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly; A Fist Full of Dollars) then you will really like 1883.

The initial characters of this deck and the story line reminds me of that TV show.

[laitostarr777]

The Hearts characters
Meet with the Railroad Tycoon, the Can Can Dancer, and the Sherrif

[Strag]

There is no way to have this discussion and not get into socio-politics But I will put Jackson himself's reply to you asking him about it in discord

I'm aware of what the term means and thought it fit perfectly, historically, to describe the story as it was during this time the phrase was created and used.

As for the native Americans, I totally agree, the settlers, and more specifically the US government completely screwed and robbed them.

That's why the three native Americans that the Harrison family meets in the Monatana / Wyoming territory impart their love of the land and their own native heritage onto the Harris family. The son of the chief (JoD) befriends Jonah Harrison (JoS) and shares stories of his people and the land.

I'll be doing the Cheyenne Chief and his family tomorrow, which are probably some of the cards I'm most excited about.

Yeah that's pretty much a cop-out. He can talk about manifest destiny as part of the campaign without actually including it as part of the name of the freakin' deck.

[GandalfPC]

Cheyenne Chief Two Moons fought Custer at Little Big Horn.

[felicityk]

So yeah, I'm over gratuitous gun imagery. Frontier life wasn't just about the gun toting wild wild west, it was also about mining (gold rush), agriculture, railroads, Pony Express, and ranching, just to name a few things.

Agreed. If the subtitle didn't exist, the theme would have turned me off anyway.

On a tangential note, I actually got notice that the long-awaited 13th deck from the 2021 Kings Wild Shorts sub is shipping! I keep meticulous notes on what I have outstanding, otherwise I would have forgotten about it. That and Return of the King might be the last KWP decks I acquire.

This week has been big for KS rewards (I got 3), and next week I'll get the aforementioned 13th deck and The Goldsmith!

[JazzBaloo]

So yeah, I'm over gratuitous gun imagery. Frontier life wasn't just about the gun toting wild wild west, it was also about mining (gold rush), agriculture, railroads, Pony Express, and ranching, just to name a few things.

Agreed. If the subtitle didn't exist, the theme would have turned me off anyway.

On a tangential note, I actually got notice that the long-awaited 13th deck from the 2021 Kings Wild Shorts sub is shipping! I keep meticulous notes on what I have outstanding, otherwise I would have forgotten about it. That and Return of the King might be the last KWP decks I acquire.

This week has been big for KS rewards (I got 3), and next week I'll get the aforementioned 13th deck and The Goldsmith!

Oh the ggGoldsmith decks. I like CantrelI's work a lot. I would have probably paid 25$ each or maybe even 30$ each but definitely not 100$ for the 2 decks, a coin and display box. Maybe I'll get lucky in the future and acquire them at a reasonable price without the box and coin.

[Honeybee]

Those Hearts look ordinary for Jackson and the log columns down the side don't help

[JazzBaloo]

The controversy surrounding the title is a good example of cancel culture and anti-americanism. Negativity is amplified to the point that any greatness produced is a side note to be ignored. People are rightly offended at the atrocities of the past but use it as fire power to destroy the systems of today, usually with political motivations ie: money and power. Tear down more statues of Lincoln or Jefferson if that will help but I think it's a big mistake to let violence reign supreme if you are trying to end that way of existence. Worry more about what is currently going on in the global space today and possibly find peaceful resolutions instead of pushing more hatred and division from the savagery of the past. I am not American and I do not like any of the presidential candidates but the cheering on socials for an assassination attempt is exactly where the people have been led. America is a great country or as great as any country can be for now but it won't be if that mindset persists.

[GandalfPC]

Aside from the politics we are wading into here that we simply do not wade into here.

Let’s not start arguing which of us is acting in manners either “very american” or “anti-american”.

Yes, it’s a bloody shame that some people are upset about what others are proud of, in whole or in part, etc. It’s also a bloody shame that a great deal of monuments to civil war figures were put up in the 60s in order to intimidate those seeking civil rights - and when those people get around to being pissed about it and tearing down statues of people that did bad things - yes, some may even want to talk about washington owning slaves and what that means. Life is damn complicated, american history doubly so.

Let’s also not pretend that cheering for awful things on social media is a telling measure - it’s a loud bunch of yahoos from who knows where who love to say crazy stuff.


Let’s put the politics aside though if we might - for the reason that this is not only not the forum for it, but it is a forum that specifically asks to be free of it.


(thats three Let’s - I must really be hot and bothered )

[laitostarr777]

I second that!

And you already seen Jackson’s quote regarding the “sensitive” phrase for the subtitle of the deck - what’s more to be asked?

Yes, while it is a thing in the past, I don’t think Jackson’s intention with this deck is to promote that phrase. Perhaps the inclusion of Native Americans as courts and the story should suffice how Jackson didn’t support how in the past America oppressed the natives.

Me, being non American, after learning about this phrase, is also disgusted, but from all the artworks and story poured in it, I dont see anything that is related to the characters being greedy bastards with guns or something similar.

[felicityk]

Yes, while it is a thing in the past, I don’t think Jackson’s intention with this deck is to promote that phrase. Perhaps the inclusion of Native Americans as courts and the story should suffice how Jackson didn’t support how in the past America oppressed the natives.

Intention isn't everything. I never thought Jackson supported it, but I don't think simply adding Native American characters is enough to gloss over a policy that caused untold harm. And while the story is part of his development of the character art, how is it going to be received by the average customer who doesn't know the context, they just see the name? I think it's a misstep.

[laitostarr777]

Meet the American Indians who the Harrisons encountered

And meet with the rest of the characters who are helping out the Harrisons

And this is going to be the back design of the deck:

A subtle one-way design. My predictions: the back MIGHT be gold foiled, or not. The gilding for the Gilded Edition might be Gold, or not.

[felicityk]

On a tangential note, I actually got notice that the long-awaited 13th deck from the 2021 Kings Wild Shorts sub is shipping! I keep meticulous notes on what I have outstanding, otherwise I would have forgotten about it. That and Return of the King might be the last KWP decks I acquire.

Figures I missed the one Wednesday Weekly Update that had content relevant to me. I would have known about the 13th deck, and also that I would be getting the gilded version, even though my Shorts subscription was for the limited deck, because I did complete the 2021 certificate. I miss collecting the stickers...

...which reminds me about the Pi Slice series, which went dormant after 2 releases, was revived on Kickstarter for 3 more, and is now on hiatus again. I don't quite understand why Jackson can't bang these out like he does the Table Players, as they are just another color variant of his original court design. I hope he eventually completes the pie!

pislices.jpg (68.17 KiB) Viewed 1669 times

[laitostarr777]

On a tangential note, I actually got notice that the long-awaited 13th deck from the 2021 Kings Wild Shorts sub is shipping! I keep meticulous notes on what I have outstanding, otherwise I would have forgotten about it. That and Return of the King might be the last KWP decks I acquire.

Figures I missed the one Wednesday Weekly Update that had content relevant to me. I would have known about the 13th deck, and also that I would be getting the gilded version, even though my Shorts subscription was for the limited deck, because I did complete the 2021 certificate. I miss collecting the stickers...

...which reminds me about the Pi Slice series, which went dormant after 2 releases, was revived on Kickstarter for 3 more, and is now on hiatus again. I don't quite understand why Jackson can't bang these out like he does the Table Players, as they are just another color variant of his original court design. I hope he eventually completes the pie!

pislices.jpg

If only I have those, then the Pi Sticker I had been receiving would have use. Someone tried to help me by sending his extras, but my unreliable postal service lost it :/ - so I will never gotta find out the endgame of the Pies

[PaulF]

There is no way to have this discussion and not get into socio-politics But I will put Jackson himself's reply to you asking him about it in discord

I'm aware of what the term means and thought it fit perfectly, historically, to describe the story as it was during this time the phrase was created and used.

As for the native Americans, I totally agree, the settlers, and more specifically the US government completely screwed and robbed them.

That's why the three native Americans that the Harrison family meets in the Monatana / Wyoming territory impart their love of the land and their own native heritage onto the Harris family. The son of the chief (JoD) befriends Jonah Harrison (JoS) and shares stories of his people and the land.

I'll be doing the Cheyenne Chief and his family tomorrow, which are probably some of the cards I'm most excited about.

Yeah that's pretty much a cop-out. He can talk about manifest destiny as part of the campaign without actually including it as part of the name of the freakin' deck.

There is absolutely nothing racist going on here... Implied or otherwise... He is completely innocent and this project is taking great shape.

[GandalfPC]

I would agree. He is certainly no deeper into treading on the past than I am, as I am a home owner - on the mentioned land.

But it certainly is a part of history that deserves to be known: https://americanexperience.si.edu/wp-co ... emoval.pdf

[Adamthinks]

There is no way to have this discussion and not get into socio-politics But I will put Jackson himself's reply to you asking him about it in discord

I'm aware of what the term means and thought it fit perfectly, historically, to describe the story as it was during this time the phrase was created and used.

As for the native Americans, I totally agree, the settlers, and more specifically the US government completely screwed and robbed them.

That's why the three native Americans that the Harrison family meets in the Monatana / Wyoming territory impart their love of the land and their own native heritage onto the Harris family. The son of the chief (JoD) befriends Jonah Harrison (JoS) and shares stories of his people and the land.

I'll be doing the Cheyenne Chief and his family tomorrow, which are probably some of the cards I'm most excited about.

Yeah that's pretty much a cop-out. He can talk about manifest destiny as part of the campaign without actually including it as part of the name of the freakin' deck.

There is absolutely nothing racist going on here... Implied or otherwise... He is completely innocent and this project is taking great shape.

I don't think anyone is implying he's being racist. Just that it's distasteful at best.

[Strag]

There is no way to have this discussion and not get into socio-politics But I will put Jackson himself's reply to you asking him about it in discord

I'm aware of what the term means and thought it fit perfectly, historically, to describe the story as it was during this time the phrase was created and used.

As for the native Americans, I totally agree, the settlers, and more specifically the US government completely screwed and robbed them.

That's why the three native Americans that the Harrison family meets in the Monatana / Wyoming territory impart their love of the land and their own native heritage onto the Harris family. The son of the chief (JoD) befriends Jonah Harrison (JoS) and shares stories of his people and the land.

I'll be doing the Cheyenne Chief and his family tomorrow, which are probably some of the cards I'm most excited about.

Yeah that's pretty much a cop-out. He can talk about manifest destiny as part of the campaign without actually including it as part of the name of the freakin' deck.

There is absolutely nothing racist going on here... Implied or otherwise... He is completely innocent and this project is taking great shape.

WTAF? Where did you possibly read racist into anything I said?

[Eric Lee]

Figures I missed the one Wednesday Weekly Update that had content relevant to me. I would have known about the 13th deck, and also that I would be getting the gilded version, even though my Shorts subscription was for the limited deck, because I did complete the 2021 certificate. I miss collecting the stickers...

Oh wow, thanks for the reminder. I completely forgot about that in my busy period. I lost cert and stickers after one of my wife's house cleaning, but I got all the decks with my number. I hope they will accept it and it's not too late to claim the deck. So here's crossing my fingers.

[PaulF]

There is no way to have this discussion and not get into socio-politics But I will put Jackson himself's reply to you asking him about it in discord

I'm aware of what the term means and thought it fit perfectly, historically, to describe the story as it was during this time the phrase was created and used.

As for the native Americans, I totally agree, the settlers, and more specifically the US government completely screwed and robbed them.

That's why the three native Americans that the Harrison family meets in the Monatana / Wyoming territory impart their love of the land and their own native heritage onto the Harris family. The son of the chief (JoD) befriends Jonah Harrison (JoS) and shares stories of his people and the land.

I'll be doing the Cheyenne Chief and his family tomorrow, which are probably some of the cards I'm most excited about.

Yeah that's pretty much a cop-out. He can talk about manifest destiny as part of the campaign without actually including it as part of the name of the freakin' deck.

There is absolutely nothing racist going on here... Implied or otherwise... He is completely innocent and this project is taking great shape.

WTAF? Where did you possibly read racist into anything I said?

Easy now my friend. Please explain to me why all the controversy? Manifest Destiny is NOT part of the campaign or in the title of the deck.

It's mentioned as part of the title on his 10 day youtube live broadcast of the design of the edition?

Please explain to me why there is such sensitively to this?

A discussion with the best of intent. If I upset you, I'm sorry.

[GandalfPC]

Not to stir the pot, but rather to set the table, the campaign rewards do feature it.

Seeing what Manifest Destiny was - the hows and whys of it - one can see that it might be touchy subject - but everyone who likes the dukes of hazard isn’t in the KKK - people have too much distance to appreciate that any of it might be sacred ground - and they might get the impression there was no where left to walk.

[PaulF]

Oh yes. I stand corrected.

[Evilgamer]

He was designing the tuck today, I only see it tagged as "frontier playing cards" there.

[Adamthinks]

Outside of the " Manifest Destiny" issue, I'm pretty meh on the designs we've seen for the deck so far. So I'd pass either way. It's not bad, but I wouldn't open it more than once. Nearing 600 decks, I'm getting more choosy on which I back now.

[GandalfPC]

He was designing the tuck today, I only see it tagged as "frontier playing cards" there.

Yeah - pretty sure you are stuck with the pledge rewards once you launch.

I imagine that everyone can appreciate that is may not quite rise to the level of needing to restart the campaign to remove the last vestige - let it remain as an homage to its removal.

[JazzBaloo]

Aside from the politics we are wading into here that we simply do not wade into here.

Let’s not start arguing which of us is acting in manners either “very american” or “anti-american”.

Yes, it’s a bloody shame that some people are upset about what others are proud of, in whole or in part, etc. It’s also a bloody shame that a great deal of monuments to civil war figures were put up in the 60s in order to intimidate those seeking civil rights - and when those people get around to being pissed about it and tearing down statues of people that did bad things - yes, some may even want to talk about washington owning slaves and what that means. Life is damn complicated, american history doubly so.

Let’s also not pretend that cheering for awful things on social media is a telling measure - it’s a loud bunch of yahoos from who knows where who love to say crazy stuff.


Let’s put the politics aside though if we might - for the reason that this is not only not the forum for it, but it is a forum that specifically asks to be free of it.


(thats three Let’s - I must really be hot and bothered )

OK sir, I respectfully disagree with just about everything you said. Please don't let this bloody shame of a mess make you all sweaty. I wish the loud yahoo people on the internet was a fringe minority. I am sorry that you feel my comment was targeted at you or others. I suggest peaceful resolutions.

[laitostarr777]

Here are more updates for those who either missed the livestream or want the TLDW update:

The tuck box for Standard Edition - as always, anything but standard shape

The tuck box for Gilded Edition. Custom shape, the flap is very long, and the box closes like an envelope.

Potential add-on - Dealer's Coin

KWP's signature edition of every deck - the Legacy. Still working on finalization.

The Number Cards, done for the Spades pip. Either there is a page behind or not.