OATH'S PATREON -details

[kevork]

I will say, Exquisite Fortuna is one of my favorite backs from all the decks I own, but if we are to take them for their word, it took EPCC two years to complete the project and oversee the printing by hand due to the accuracy required. Props on Piracy for trying, truly, but I recall the details were significantly lost through the foil application.

Lotrek has expressed cold foil is a very similar printing process to CMYK printing and relatively easy. He isn't satisfied with its appearance because it doesn't give additional depth/texture and shininess that hot foil provides. With that said, hot foil is more costly and arduous than these printers would want to take on as evidenced by the lack of such products in the market, and the efforts required. There's not much incentive for them.

[Oneiros88]

I will say, Exquisite Fortuna is one of my favorite backs from all the decks I own, but if we are to take them for their word, it took EPCC two years to complete the project and oversee the printing by hand due to the accuracy required. Props on Piracy for trying, truly, but I recall the details were significantly lost through the foil application.

Lotrek has expressed cold foil is a very similar printing process to CMYK printing and relatively easy. He isn't satisfied with its appearance because it doesn't give additional depth/texture and shininess that hot foil provides. With that said, hot foil is more costly and arduous than these printers would want to take on as evidenced by the lack of such products in the market, and the efforts required. There's not much incentive for them.

There was a time when I was really attracted to cold-foiled decks, but I’ve come to find that I really like hot foil decks for their lustre.

So much so that while I’m currently purging my deck collection, I’m finding many of my cold foil decks are in the ‘sell’ pile, and Regalia by Shin Lim is in my keepsies pile for the hot foil (despite it having standard courts…)

There’s just something about it that shines so much more than cold foil!

[Harvonsgard]

To be fair for the Exquisite Fortuna - if I remember correctly - its original retail price was $80, back when it was released. Not what Gio has put on his website.

There’s just something about it that shines so much more than cold foil!

Hot foil is a true metallic foil. Cold foil is plastic with metal colours printed on.

[GandalfPC]

Yes - I should have stated that the price was in Gio-ese

[Disenchanted_11]

so to summarize multiple hot foils is almost the norm for lotrek while other producers do 1 or maybe 2 hot foils occasionally? Lotrek has probably done more multiple hot foil decks himself than every other card producer combined. I'm not a lotrek fanboy, but he's clearly the hot foil leader in the playing card space. I don't think anyone comes close.

So lotrek's legacy is having done more foils than others?

But like montenzi said, other printers could do it with the right price. If that's not true, then maybe there's a reason for that, and lotrek is the living proof that it's a very inefficient thing to do.

[montenzi]

So lotrek's legacy is having done more foils than others?

But like montenzi said, other printers could do it with the right price. If that's not true, then maybe there's a reason for that, and lotrek is the living proof that it's a very inefficient thing to do.

Everything is probably a bit different. Foil, paper, and boxes are all consumables, the smallest part of the deck production process. The tools. All of that might cost almost nothing, very little, or sometimes a lot more than you can imagine. All of this does not matter. It's not about efficiency. For example, it's no secret that any deck, even with foil, can be printed for a couple of bucks or slightly more. The main cost is our time, labor, craft and art. You could spend $100 on paint and create a painting that could be worth millions, and no one could argue. Because the artist is always right.

[bdawg923]

so to summarize multiple hot foils is almost the norm for lotrek while other producers do 1 or maybe 2 hot foils occasionally? Lotrek has probably done more multiple hot foil decks himself than every other card producer combined. I'm not a lotrek fanboy, but he's clearly the hot foil leader in the playing card space. I don't think anyone comes close.

So lotrek's legacy is having done more foils than others?

But like montenzi said, other printers could do it with the right price. If that's not true, then maybe there's a reason for that, and lotrek is the living proof that it's a very inefficient thing to do.

Never said that doing more foils was his legacy. His creativity and pushing the boundaries of what's possible with multiple hot foil applications just makes him stand out above the rest. Also he's not wjpc who are probably a giant company with huge teams of people. He's one dude who figures this out himself. If that's not impressive to you then I don't know what is.

[crazy_lazy]

so to summarize multiple hot foils is almost the norm for lotrek while other producers do 1 or maybe 2 hot foils occasionally? Lotrek has probably done more multiple hot foil decks himself than every other card producer combined. I'm not a lotrek fanboy, but he's clearly the hot foil leader in the playing card space. I don't think anyone comes close.

So lotrek's legacy is having done more foils than others?

But like montenzi said, other printers could do it with the right price. If that's not true, then maybe there's a reason for that, and lotrek is the living proof that it's a very inefficient thing to do.

Never said that doing more foils was his legacy. His creativity and pushing the boundaries of what's possible with multiple hot foil applications just makes him stand out above the rest. Also he's not wjpc who are probably a giant company with huge teams of people. He's one dude who figures this out himself. If that's not impressive to you then I don't know what is.

I don't think Oath is a one-man operation. I agree they're not a mega-sized company like WJPC, but they do seem to be a company with staff. I'm pretty sure he's mentioned before that he has a team of apprentice printers and others who help with things such as packaging, assembling, photography, etc. Just to be clear there's nothing wrong with that at all and I'm a fan of Oath and consider their work to be impressive, but I don't believe it's a solo thing. This is all based on my memory from reading his patreon updates and social media posts so maybe others can chime in if that's correct or not.

[Honeybee]

I would be a little worried if I was a patreon waiting for the promised backlog to be fulfilled. My reading of things is that there have often been delays due to Lotrek not being satisfied with results, now it would seem that he is prepared to send out sub standard finishes so maybe the backlog is getting to him (although he is on holiday and yes you do need work/life balance). I now wonder what the promised rewards will look like if they ever arrive
A patreon is technically not promised anything for their support so maybe Lotrek should bite the bullet and just get one of the promised yearly rewards spot on and send it out as the reward for ALL years of patronage. Not ideal but patreons of long standing would have multiple copies of a Lotrek deck to cherish or to sell if multiples is not their bag.

[Eric Lee]

So lotrek's legacy is having done more foils than others?

But like montenzi said, other printers could do it with the right price. If that's not true, then maybe there's a reason for that, and lotrek is the living proof that it's a very inefficient thing to do.

That's an extreme oversimplification of Lotrek's legacy and doesn't explain why he's still admired by so many. He was the first to: (these can be found on Kardify, Kickstarter and other playing card website)

- show double hotfoil can be done with fine details and be semi-commercially viable with Icons. Cherry Casino's holo deck claimed to be the "WORLD'S FIRST large scale DOUBLE HOT FOIL" only in 2022, but acknowledge that Lotrek already had done double hot foil earlier.

- show highly detailed hotfoil edge printing with Sanctus,
Chris Ramsay's 1st cards with USPCC came out 1 year later. 1st had a long delay as USPCC had trouble printing the hot foil stamped right on the edge of the deck as it had never been done before commercially. See CR's video here.

- print cards only with hot foil and no ink with Golden Oath

- use double hotfoil with very fine details with Arabesque.

- do multiple (4) foils on the courts with Damask. (Compare the details on Damask and Arabesque with EPCC's Exquiste Fortuna. It doesn't come close)

- use just 1 foil to show texture and depth with Silk.

As for efficiency, Lotrek actually did go into some detail on why hot foil is so difficult and not cost efficient to do in a Deckin Around interview. The video link and summary can be found here on this UC thread:
https://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopi ... ek#p213429

(Do correct me if there's any errors in my post)

[laitostarr777]

I might add this as well:
ARK “claimed” to have been the first ever to make Playing Cards tuckbox made of silky surface paper, but in reality, Lotrek did it first with the Charmers Signature and… iirc, ICONS

[kevork]

I might add this as well:
ARK “claimed” to have been the first ever to make Playing Cards tuckbox made of silky surface paper, but in reality, Lotrek did it first with the Charmers Signature and… iirc, ICONS

Ambassadors Signature and Charmers Signature. The foil registration improved significantly with Charmers and it's incredibly elegant. I recall Lotrek mentioning he needed to create a new process to allow him to adhere the foil to silk properly.

[brownsl]

You can say that again!

[Oneiros88]

I might add this as well:
ARK “claimed” to have been the first ever to make Playing Cards tuckbox made of silky surface paper, but in reality, Lotrek did it first with the Charmers Signature and… iirc, ICONS

It was Gio/TWI who said about their first to use velvet-texture stock on Damokles, but Lottek made Icons Imperial / Imperial Reverse on velvet stock.


Also, Lotrek has done foil in a leather-like paper stock in Grotesk Signature and ICONS Signature.

I wish he’d do a new one on this kind of material!

[brownsl]

I just received an email that my White Patrons have shipped. They are shipping from Germany.

[KingfisherZero]

I might add this as well:
ARK “claimed” to have been the first ever to make Playing Cards tuckbox made of silky surface paper, but in reality, Lotrek did it first with the Charmers Signature and… iirc, ICONS

It was Gio/TWI who said about their first to use velvet-texture stock on Damokles, but Lottek made Icons Imperial / Imperial Reverse on velvet stock.


Also, Lotrek has done foil in a leather-like paper stock in Grotesk Signature and ICONS Signature.

I wish he’d do a new one on this kind of material!

Not sure which came first, but there was also a deck called Branle from Noir Arts that had blind deboss on a velvet tuck - super unique for its time as well. I don't think (or maybe I misremember) Gio claimed to be the first. Just that it was experimental for him/Boschiero. If he did claim it was the first time ever for the industry, though...certainly not the case!

One of my favorite leather texture tucks was the Deluxe Lone Star deck from Pure Imagination Projects. Simple, clean, classic feeling.

[laitostarr777]

New update on MYSTERY III

[KGthePrince]

New update on MYSTERY III

Let's goooooooo That tuck looks awesome!

[Fenrir]

That looks reminiscent of two previous Lotrek series. I wonder if it’s tied to an existing series at all.

[Honeybee]

New update on MYSTERY III

Let's goooooooo That tuck looks awesome!

Very funny KG

[PiazzaDelivery]

That looks reminiscent of two previous Lotrek series. I wonder if it’s tied to an existing series at all.

What are you able to surmise from this almost complete absence of a picture lol?

[kevork]

He used the power of:

tenor.gif (6.85 MiB) Viewed 907 times

[Fenrir]

That looks reminiscent of two previous Lotrek series. I wonder if it’s tied to an existing series at all.

What are you able to surmise from this almost complete absence of a picture lol?

More like a hunch. Has a very Sanctissimus or Moresque vibe to me. Might just be the squiggly lines .

[Adamthinks]

Perhaps off base, but that picture immediately brought to mind the tuck for the white standard oath deck.

[Eric Lee]

I don't think Oath is a one-man operation. I agree they're not a mega-sized company like WJPC, but they do seem to be a company with staff. I'm pretty sure he's mentioned before that he has a team of apprentice printers and others who help with things such as packaging, assembling, photography, etc. Just to be clear there's nothing wrong with that at all and I'm a fan of Oath and consider their work to be impressive, but I don't believe it's a solo thing. This is all based on my memory from reading his patreon updates and social media posts so maybe others can chime in if that's correct or not.

Well, not really a 1 man show, but a 2 person show. Oath is just him and his wife, Melania, who's a professional photographer. She's the one who does the photos for him and probably helps with packing and shipping.

He has found different printers for his decks and tucks the last few years, which helps him release non-foiled or less foiled decks faster compared to his full foiled decks. He has shared about the printing process he goes through in different places and interviews. However, he has to wait for his turn in the printing queue. So when things go wrong, he has to go back into the queue unless there's a window between jobs where he can slip in.

Here's a recent Patreon post which, IMHO, perfectly encapsulates the printing process that goes into producing an Oath foiled deck; endless tinkering in search of perfection, printing delays and all.

 

That said, I indeed went to the printer rather delayed but the truth is that even if I had an ETA in 15 years, I would still be late, changing the design till the last moment.

From that point on, others take over: During the offset printing the printer's assistant did something absolutely stupid with the varnish, and the result was that all sheets were almost stuck together and of course destroyed. I found out about that when the printing was over, as I went to take home a few sheets.

The company manager accepted accountability for the mistake and offered a reprint. Great! The only problem was that the stock needed for the reprint wasn't immediately available. We had to wait about 10 days for the stock to arrive. When the stock came in, the printer wasn't available as they were already printing a huge quantity of stuff that had to be finished first. Add some more days' delay. We finally reprinted and the print was fabulous. Excellent!

I took the sheets to the foil printer (a different company) waiting for my turn to print. Meanwhile, I realized the problem with the white PATRONS deck that we discussed in the previous updates. This changed and stopped everything.

[Evilgamer]

Received my white patrons today, Id say 11/12 courts have some kind of damage probably 3 have what I would normally likely consider "replace" damage.

Its such a nice deck, shame that happened.

[Honeybee]

Oh Lotrek

[Disenchanted_11]

So lotrek's legacy is having done more foils than others?

But like montenzi said, other printers could do it with the right price. If that's not true, then maybe there's a reason for that, and lotrek is the living proof that it's a very inefficient thing to do.

That's an extreme oversimplification of Lotrek's legacy and doesn't explain why he's still admired by so many. He was the first to: (these can be found on Kardify, Kickstarter and other playing card website)

- show double hotfoil can be done with fine details and be semi-commercially viable with Icons. Cherry Casino's holo deck claimed to be the "WORLD'S FIRST large scale DOUBLE HOT FOIL" only in 2022, but acknowledge that Lotrek already had done double hot foil earlier.

- show highly detailed hotfoil edge printing with Sanctus,
Chris Ramsay's 1st cards with USPCC came out 1 year later. 1st had a long delay as USPCC had trouble printing the hot foil stamped right on the edge of the deck as it had never been done before commercially. See CR's video here.

- print cards only with hot foil and no ink with Golden Oath

- use double hotfoil with very fine details with Arabesque.

- do multiple (4) foils on the courts with Damask. (Compare the details on Damask and Arabesque with EPCC's Exquiste Fortuna. It doesn't come close)

- use just 1 foil to show texture and depth with Silk.

As for efficiency, Lotrek actually did go into some detail on why hot foil is so difficult and not cost efficient to do in a Deckin Around interview. The video link and summary can be found here on this UC thread:
https://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopi ... ek#p213429

(Do correct me if there's any errors in my post)

Late reply here, yes I made an extreme oversimplification. That's a very good insight to what he's done over the years, thank you.

I never deep-dived into his work because what am I gonna do if there's only been 150 or something created for each? On another reply above, how can I be impressed with something I cannot have or even see. I guess that's what you can call legendaries in terms of rarity.

[kevork]

Received my white patrons today, Id say 11/12 courts have some kind of damage probably 3 have what I would normally likely consider "replace" damage.

Its such a nice deck, shame that happened.

Would it be possible to get pics of what that looks like for you?

[Bradius]

In the one deck I have opened, below is what I would consider a "good" court:

There are just a few small scratches on this Jack of Spades that really are minor to me.

Here is more of an average court I saw:

This Queen of Diamond has a few more bits of ink removed. However, even at this point it is slightly distracting in my opinion. If this was a full priced $100+ Lotrek deck, I would be disappointed with the result. However, given that this was priced like several redemption decks and Lotrek said ahead of time that there were issues, I am fine with my purchase. I do like the courts.

Your mileage may vary. I will be interested to hear what others find and think about the deck. Hopefully others will be coming in really soon.