P52 Debut Deck 'Odd Fellows' by Stockholm 17

[Harvonsgard]

… but I don't really like penguins

You monstaa!

[Timmargh]

You monstaa!

I do love that movie, though.

[kevork]

Hmm, this recent deck add-on feels unnecessary. Why not add edge printing to the standard deck as a stretch goal? Instead, they're using the same tuck as the standard, using edge printing, and then slapping a different sticker on it. Since it's the Odd Fellows series, I'll still be buying it but as a collector, I'm a bit irked.

#GetVaccinatedFromRiffleShufflitis

[balrog326]

I feel exactly the same way. I wrote a rather long comment and deleted it on the campaign twice because I don't want to seem ungrateful that they finally announced a stretch goal. But yeah this is rather lame and irks me.They are 600% funded, when Lorenzo was 400% on EOTO 2 it was not only gilded rather than edge printed but FREE. You would think since they are forcing us to spend $21 rather than an additional $5 per deck we already are buying they could of at least tossed on a numbered sticker like the snowflake edition. This should technically be the lowest print run of the series yet doesn't have a numbered seal?? Seems very odd to me especially since they said they are putting a different sticker....would adding numbers really be too difficult???

[bdawg923]

Agreed. I don't want a 2nd identical deck that only has printed edges, especially since I open my cards. I don't need a sealed duplicate. I wish they add an option to just add edge printing to existing decks for those who want it. $17 for a WJPC deck is already obscene in my opinion. I don't want to pay $21 for another one.

[kevork]

Frankly, Odd Fellows is one of my favorite series, but I do wish the standard deck was upgraded to have edge printing as a stretch goal, rather than releasing an edge printed version with a different sticker seal. If this is the route being taken, please consider numbered seals. Thank you.

We will discuss with Lorenzo about numbered seals.

We could not simply upgrade the Standard decks to having edge coloring across the board. Partly because of the added expense, but mostly because it would fundamentally change the deck that so many people had already pledged for.

Unless it's an announced upgrade (changing card stock at a certain stretch goal, etc) we don't think it's right to suddenly change a key feature of a deck.

While some people want & prefer the edge coloring, some people do not want it. For anyone who pledged for a Standard deck, they pledged for it knowing it would have normal edges.

For the people who want a deck with normal edges, it would not be right to change the item they pledged for without advanced knowledge or consent.

By offering both versions, people can choose one, the other, or both.

Our goal when launching the campaign was to have ALL variants of the deck available from minute one. There was enough feedback from a small amount of vocal backers for stretch goals, so after much conversation we decided to offer an additional option.

Hope that makes sense!

$17 for a WJPC deck is already obscene in my opinion. I don't want to pay $21 for another one.

Not that I'm excusing the high cost, but from my understanding, part of the markups are to offset free shipping worldwide.

[bdawg923]

Ye fair enough. I get it. But I still don't need a second near-identical duplicate deck. I would pay $21 for the edge printed deck if I didn't have to also pay $17 for the regular deck.

edit- also, USA people who would normally pay like $5 for shipping are kinda subsidizing their international shipping which costs way more than $5 per package. It's all baked into the tier cost so we don't know how much but we are.

[Adamthinks]

$17 for a WJPC deck is already obscene in my opinion.

Why do you think that?

[bdawg923]

$17 for a WJPC deck is already obscene in my opinion.

Why do you think that?

Because I don't like WJPC quality and I don't think it's worth that much. Just my personal opinion about their stock and finish. Not a fan. I think they're super overrated.

[Adamthinks]

$17 for a WJPC deck is already obscene in my opinion.

Why do you think that?

Because I don't like WJPC quality and I don't think it's worth that much. Just my personal opinion about their stock and finish. Not a fan. I think they're super overrated.

I'm confused by that. Have you not seen any of the major decks they've done in the last year or two? They've improved tremendously.

[bdawg923]

$17 for a WJPC deck is already obscene in my opinion.

Why do you think that?

Because I don't like WJPC quality and I don't think it's worth that much. Just my personal opinion about their stock and finish. Not a fan. I think they're super overrated.

I'm confused by that. Have you not seen any of the major decks they've done in the last year or two? They've improved tremendously.

I have. I'm in Lorenzo's patreon. Improved sure. But I still prefer cartamundi and uspcc cards. I don't think WJPC are as good as them.

[Evilgamer]

I'm confused by that. Have you not seen any of the major decks they've done in the last year or two? They've improved tremendously.

I will 2nd this, with Cartamundi offline, WJPC is making the best decks out there right now. It's only downhill going with other companies. (IMO).

USPCC is average at best and doesn't really do foiling.
King Star TWI is trying to convince us Is good but most of what I have from them are their 1st party decks where the art isnt up to western standards.

as for the add-on...I dunno Id rather not have two versions of the same deck one edge printed one not. Trying to figure out what to do, its $8 to swap from the early to get the new version instead (along with the mini and the snowflake)

[laitostarr777]

And here I though... no more editions... *Sigh* this starting to get old

[Bikefanatic]

I have the normal Cpt Spindel. I used to wrestle with getting the limited edition with the webbed sides but I stop thinking about it. With the Dude, I'm just fine with the standard version. If the "gilded" version was in a 3rd color then I would get it.

[Romeril]

I think I’m going to drop my Odd Trio tier and get the Underwater Vibes tier and add on Snowflake and the mini. The add on price for the underwater vibes deck is the same price as the tier for that deck. $21. Add on for the snowflake is $26 and for the mini is $12. That would put me at $59. Only $4 more than the Odd Trio with just the standard standard, and $7 more than my early bird. I’m good with that.

[kevork]

I think sticking with my EB Odd Trio tier gives me the best price I can get for one of each item (minus uncut sheets).

[Romeril]

Yeah, you’re right if you want both a standard and an underwater. I don’t want both of them. I think the best option for me is getting the underwater tier and adding the other two.

[Reylek]

HI all. I hope I can help shine some light on this.

Our goal is to make as many people as possible happy with our offerings, of course. The unfortunate flip side of that is that we can't make 100% of people completely 100% happy.

Part of our goal included launching the campaign with everything. Every deck and add-on was available at minute one. We never had any secret side plan to release the edge-colored deck. We never offered any super-ultra-limited items where only a few dozen lucky people could obtain them. If there's an item in the campaign someone wants, they can get it.

A small but vocal minority of backers commented during the first couple days of the campaign that they wanted additional options. We immediately started chatting with Lorenzo about what the best path would be to offer that. It took some time to figure out what made sense financially, what Lorenzo was open to artistically, and trying to keep it limited but still accessible.

Ultimately the edge-colored deck is what we settled on.

Some will love it, some will hate it, some will be indifferent. We didn't want to force anyone into it. If we had switched all Standard decks to Edge Coloring, a lot of people would have been upset that we had changed their original decks to edge-colored ones. For some people it's a drawback, we get that. By offering both versions people can choose one, the other, or both.

As for the seals - it was Lorenzo's choice when designing to not number them. I'll happily chat with him and see about numbering the seals. I'd imagine there's a good chance of it. And yes, I expect us to make fewer of the Underwater Vibes deck than the Golden Snowflake deck, so I think numbering makes sense.

The main reason we are not currently offering an "Upgrade" add on for a few dollars is because it seemed like it would have added extra confusion & difficulty for all parties in pledging and fulfillment. We are not intending to use BackerKit for this campaign, mostly because the original campaign was built in such an accessible & straightforward way for inventory management. Having multiple SKUS for the same item is not something we're sure we can do with the Edge Colored decks in the default KS survey system.

We will keep investigating the possibilities. If we must add BackerKit into the equation because enough people would like a "Standard Upgrade" option rather than a separate deck, then that option is not entirely off the table. It's important to remember that this is a live campaign and we are responding to feedback in real time - but it can take time to look at any idea from all angles before taking action.

We made the pledge levels in such a way that any combination of any number of the decks is possible. If you want 2 standard, 5 golden snowflake, 3 mini, and 4 edge colored, you can build that via pledge levels and add-ons. No, not every configuration can carry the EB pricing, but all of our pledge levels are still well-discounted from MSRP and include the free worldwide shipping.

In terms of printer choice and quality, WJPC is rapdily becoming one of the best players in the card printing space. Personal preference will always play a role, but what they are making in terms of quality of paper stock, coating, precision of registration, and capability for foiling is all objectively high quality.

Cartamundi is not offering custom decks right now, so that option was not even on the table. We love the feel of USPCC cards, but they do zero foiling in-house. Adding on Foiling & Embossing to the tucks requires expensive 3rd party vendors, as does adding on foiling to the cards on the Golden Snowflake, etc. To have printed these decks with USPCC would have increased the price of each deck by a large amount.

It's only natural to want to compare campaigns, but each one must be viewed through a different lens. On Lorenzo's other campaigns, he is self-producing. On this campaign, we are paying Lorenzo. Everything we raise needs to go towards covering the production, the shipping, his compensation, and hopefully a small profit. I guarantee profits on this are not as high as some people might think.

If anyone can point me towards any other currently-active campaigns with similar features to The Dude at a lower landed cost per deck, I would love to see it.

I hope this comes across in the spirit that it's meant - to shine a light on things. I'm not trying to complain or be defensive.

We love the decks that we're offering, and we're amazed by the outpouring of support for the campaign.

Thanks!

[kevork]

What I will say is I'm impressed by Kevin's and Penguin Magic's communication throughout this project, both on KS and on here. Much appreciated.

[bdawg923]

Ye, may not agree on everything, but definitely happy with the communication

[Reylek]

Thank you guys, I appreciate it.

My personal reputation in this space means the world to me.

This year marks my 15th anniversary of producing cards. I did my first one in 2009. No crowdfunding, no nothing. I took out a small business loan and it was sink or swim. Luckily I was able to swim.

I have never been in it for the money. I'm in it because I love playing cards. I could have chosen much more lucrative career paths, that's for sure, lol.

Every reply you see here, in the campaign, or on the PenguinCards IG is me. I'm just a guy who loves cards and thinks that communication is one of the most important elements across all aspects of life.

I've self-produced, and I've worked for multiple companies over the years.

One thing that won't change is my goal for clarity and openness (as much as the realities of business allow) no matter who I'm working for or with.

[brownsl]

I also think it is great your participation on these forums and the insight you provide. I may not agree with everything you do, such as the $100 decks, but I appreciate your explanations on why.

Now, can we talk about your ........ website!

[Reylek]

Not every decision is mine to make with how some decks are offered

[Strag]

I'm personally absolutely fine and happy with all the options and the pricing is fair as I've always considered shipping as part of my deck costs. I'm in for 2 of everything and a coin.

[Evilgamer]

The communications are great and yes while I don't understand what goes on in their heads I know some people don't like edge colored decks. SO it's not a please everyone situation.

I do think I would have preferred that this just be implemented as an option rather than another deck though. I cant imagine how much this is going to fragment the print runs of the two very similar variant.

Honestly probably should have just stuck to "no additions", if Lorenzo didn't really have a rabbit (penguin?) to pull out of his hat for a truly different deck.

[Reylek]

As you say, there was no way to please everyone.

Personally, I would have been perfectly happy to not introduce a new variant - though now I am excited to see the UV version in person. But that would have made a certain segement of backers upset. No action would have made everyone completely happy.

The bright side is that when new options are offered, nobody is forced to buy any of them.

My stance on collecting has always been "Buy what you like" so I totally understand if some people don't want all 4 of the decks on offer.

Only a little more than a week to go with the campaign, and then it won't take too long before printing is underway!

As the only person who has seen the prototype tuck boxes in person, I can say that they look fabulous!!

[Evilgamer]

I had to look at the post again I read 'UV" as being ultraviolet...not the name of the deck

[shunterino]

I think I would back if there was a foiled front and back with no gilding version. Don't like gilded decks, the handling, the flaking off, the tacky look of shiny gold paint all turn me off and I already have a couple of decks in the range so I feel my interest in the Odd Fellows is no longer piqued.I'll wait for Lorenzo's next project.

[Honeybee]

I had to look at the post again I read 'UV" as being ultraviolet...not the name of the deck

Even with your post it took me ages to work out the UV is Underwater Version (I am up early today )
I am not into this campaign as the penguins look ugly to me but that UV looks really good

[laitostarr777]

I was really HOPING that The Emperor Playing Cards made its ways as addons, rather than a new edition with edge printing…

PS: While I appreciate you do Free Shipping to Indonesia on Penguins webstore, but how in the world I can checkout if I don’t have the option to choose the country - as it is not there?

There was enough feedback from a small amount of vocal backers for stretch goals, so after much conversation we decided to offer an additional option.

This is the part that I don’t like - “demand” being part of the problem of too many decks, because some people are asking for it