OATH'S PATREON -details

[Timmargh]

[bdawg923]

Happy birthday kevork!

[Bradius]

Wait, what? I missed the memo on kevork's birthday?

Well, dang.

Welcome to the other side kevork and Happy Birthday, with wishes for many more great ones ahead.

[Honeybee]

Happy birthday kevork, you are one of the reasons that UC is a must open every day

[Honeybee]

no news regarding that Mystery III

There actually was this news on it in that patreon update: “[Mystery III] Consequently, the deck has just entered the production stage, which means that fulfillment will be in May instead of April (no surprise here).”

Lotrek really is a disgrace as a 'businessman'
(nobody on here would be betting on May either!)

[Harvonsgard]

Eyyy... finally some good news in here. Happy Birthday @kevork.

[rousselle]

Happy birthday kevork, you are one of the reasons that UC is a must open every day

Now, THAT is some high praise!

Tip o' the hat to you, Kevork, even if it is a couple days now past your birthday. Remember, you're not getting older. You're getting much, much, much older.

[PiazzaDelivery]

I'm starting to turn on the recent Patreon updates, to dislike them. When we're told about all the work that's being done, that's nice. Dates that are far out in the future don't bother me. Same thing when we're told things are a stone's throw away. However, when we read "THIS IS IT, IT'S HAPPENING", I become hopeful and excited, and I have the end of this saga front of mind. The former two cases give me no trouble. I have no issue waiting ordinarily, but the latter feels like a carrot is being dangled before us.

I've harped on communication for a long time. I'd like to revise that. PROPER, ADEQUATE communication is what should be mandated. What's adequate? Well idk, and that's why this might be a little unfair, but this practice, intended or not, of presenting us the imminent finalization of a project and then drawing it out is really annoying. If you say it's going to be finished in two days and your dog rolls its ankle and you have to go to the vet so you can't work ok fine but TELL US THAT. I want to be in the loop. Still a proud Lotrek supporter (yeah, proud, I said it), but ngl this is testing my patience.

[Cardians]

I’ve always enjoyed Lotrék updates and this last one looks like it’s on its final journey.

With that being said, I’m sure this shipment is also going to be his biggest yet in terms of catching up, making sure everything is in order and everyone gets their proper decks.

I’m all for patience and seeing the reward(s) in the end.

I’m sure we’ll all see shipping notifications soon..!
Until then,

Cheers,
KW

[brownsl]

What is the latest on the redemption decks?

[GandalfPC]

Lotrek is not going to ever become “normal” - he’s really not. Never seen any hint that would happen - nor can I think of a scenario where it does.

Saying its coming and nailing within 2 months is around the window one should assume is his “on time” from every thing we have ever seen from him, but if we expect that he is going to ever do more than struggle with time we are simply not going to enjoy the journey.

Honestly I really don’t want to force him to communicate to the level of a cascade of 100 things that pop up, which is I’m sure what happens, as single incidents don’t account for the history of Lotrek, nor do I need a weekly update on the last 20 things that went wrong.

I would like a monthly or bi-monthly update perhaps on the gereral everything’s coming - a mention of a single one of the 50+ monthly incidents such as “box embossing not perfect yet” is fine - I am a busy man, I just don’t need to read the struggles of an artists labor or psyche

I kind of feel that level of update is already where we are at.

[Harvonsgard]

With Lotrék I’m on the same level as with my ex: no bad blood, just gimme my shit, let’s move on and farewell, all the best in the future, may you find peace and happiness .

[rousselle]

I'm a "class correspondent" for my college graduating class, which means I'm one of the people who write a column every so often saying here's what so-and-so in our class is doing these days. There are a few rules that class correspondents are required to follow:

* Do not announce engagements. Announce weddings. After they've happened. (Same goes for the following.)
* Do not announce pregnancies. Announce births.

I thought it would be funny to add to that list:

* Do not announce separations. Announce divorces.
* Do not announce illnesses. Announce deaths.

Har, har, I'm such a cut up.

But... you can see where this is going.

I love Lotrek and I love the work he's done. I think the Redemption series is a very elegant way of rewarding us for our patience as we awaited our Patreon and Silk decks.

Still, in the interests of maintaining customers' sanity, it might not be a bad idea to consider a similar rule of thumb as we follow for class columns:

* Do not announce "almost there." Announce shipping.

I still love to see works-in-progress, and I'm glad we're getting more communication than we were. But... the most heartbreaking thing to read these days (aside from the newspaper) is: "... by the end of next week."

[brownsl]

I think the lack of communication gets magnified for me as I also support the person that, from my perspective, does it perfectly... Lorenzo

[Harvonsgard]

I sincerely dunno why so many are emphasizing communication? I personally dgaf about when someone is saying something, it’s about promised goods.
With Lorenzo I keep my end of the promise - financial support - and I get my goods in a timely manner. I don’t have to bother about it one millisecond of the year. With Lotrék I even have to confirm an address every time, that he has send me Redemption decks all of the time to prior? Great decks are no reason or excuse for a customer service equivalent to 0 degree Kelvin.
At this point I wish @Kevork would have birthday more than once a year, so that I can have the recent positivity about this thread more than once as well, lol.

[Honeybee]

I think Lotrek possibly belongs to the first level of KS - Make a Pledge Without a Reward
He might reword it to "Back me because you believe in me"

[Bradius]

I too share a lot of feelings like those shared by PiazzaDelivery and others above.

I still got to remind folks that have been in it since the beginning and stuck with it, I believe we have all had the opportunity to receive seven decks so far that were just thanks for sticking with me through this insanity. Well, a ride it has been, not always the best to be sure. However, I did feel obliged to point out the Redemption series has delivered. I will be happy to see some of the goodies in my box at some point, but just trying to keep my excitement dampened. I'll just enjoy what I have. I am sure I will like the final first year Patron's deck, but Redemption VI was sick awesome in my book.

A lot of my favorite creators have had more than small production blips due to Cartamundi imploding (well at least in regard to custom playing cards).

[Harvonsgard]

However, I did feel obliged to point out the Redemption series has delivered.

All I got delivered were subpar decks that despite all efforts and promises prove that Lotrék has become stagnant while the industry moved on. But they got delivered indeed - well, as long as I cared to order them since he doesn't even manage to auto-deliver them . What he delivered though is the most pathetic peformance in the card realm. Next time Lotrék asks me for money I'd rather literally burn it or send it to Natalia Silva.

[GandalfPC]

Next time Lotrék asks me for money I'd rather literally burn it or send it to Natalia Silva.

Sideburn Silva!

[double_left]

this guys full of shit man
“We are trying to have everything shipped by the end of the month.” - april 17th
13days late-r

[GandalfPC]

One might say that “trying” and it not yet being “past the end of the month” yet - “full of shit” is a stretch. Surely that will become true in a few weeks if you have him pegged, and perhaps then would be more fitting to go ape over it.

[Harvonsgard]

I wouldn‘t say Lotrék is full of shit but he is somehow incapable of understanding proper communication and business rules that apply between humans, which is tiresome and annoying af.
Whenever I reached out to him I had nothing but nice conversations and he always corrected mishaps in an instant but just like with everything I expect growth. The mad scientist can’t hold a date vibe was fun and all for his first years but now the punchline is dead - especially when artwise we get barely something really new and fresh.

[double_left]

when u publicly say youve got your shit together
supposedly get more printing time
less downtime and errors
but continually go weeks upon months to 3+yrs (sept ‘20-‘23) of waiting for a simple patreon deck is a joke
my buddy gonna quit in sept u think will get our decks by then
whoop heres another 25k++ for the month -what new deck are u going to release to the public on the backs of your supporters? golden rule 2.0
pls pls pls slowtrek let us know your next delay or vacation downtime everyone is on or what boxes were printed on the wrong stock color. i hear you need another reprinting for the 8th time
its sad it went from showing his work-in-progress to delay emails
funny how he never shows up here to comment anymore
i guess when you become the laughing stock of your own product you keep away
i would ;/ common june:july

[GandalfPC]

Seems better to me, but I am a known optimist with no sense of time since covid and a general desire to allow for progress while not expecting people to become what they are not.

He has put the flag in Mystery III as soon to be delivered and a pinnacle - should that not come to pass then your might see the realist side of me emerge, but no sooner…

[Evilgamer]

I don't see the need to be upset about something I cant control. Lotrek is going to be late(sometimes very late), thats just a fact. He makes good decks, thats the tradeoff.

Could he be more communicative? sure.

[Adamthinks]

I have enough decks in my collection now that I'm not stressing delays. Decks will arrive when they arrive. Having said that, I haven't been a Patreon at the reward level so I haven't been waiting years. I've just been at the base level to buy the extras and such which I've been relatively happy with, though not blown away by the designs like Harv said. I did end up snagging one of the Mystery III decks based on Lotreks excitement for it figuring I could at least sell it and get my money back if his excitement for the design doesn't match my own. So if production for the Mystery prolongs to the degree the Patreon decks have been, my patience will probably be tested. He said April (now May) and I expect delivery in July despite what he said if production moves forward without any hitches. Though I also fully expect there to be one or more printing mishaps to delay fulfillment into the fall/winter considering his track record and penchant for trying new foil techniques.

[Timmargh]

Good lord, Harvonsgard is saying what I'm thinking and I'm agreeing with him

What's going on?!

[GandalfPC]

Good lord, Harvonsgard is saying what I'm thinking and I'm agreeing with him

What's going on?!

It’s the seventh sign

[Oneiros88]

I sincerely hope Lotrek can deliver Year 1 soon so that certain people can finally STFU and let the rest of us get on with patiently waiting for something we still believe is worth our continued support.

I’d love more in-progress posts, but I don’t see that happening until rewards are up to date and he gets a handle on everything.


I’m not sure if Lotrek has a day job, but he still has to put food on the table and has bills to pay, etc.
He’s still only human and I don’t think there’s any intention to mislead people.

Knocking out a more standard Players edition deck to the masses at least gets some income that perhaps goes towards food, bills and generally living costs.
I was always under then impression that the Patreon money went towards allowing him to experiment, and that with that support, he can try out new techniques and eventually bring them together into finished decks for us.

The whole ‘price per deck’ that people throw around in relation to Patreon fees is misleading as I don’t feel it has ever been a case of expecting goods equal to the value spent, in this case, because there’s so much more the money probably goes into that we don’t see, like failed attempts or that weren’t feasible in the long run (like the micro embossing).

The Redemption decks have been a nice gesture in being freebies (unless you get extras, but that your own choice) which I accept with gratitude while we await the final rewards.

Some people are lucky, like Lorenzo, and can essentially quit their jobs and solely focus on card design and production as their main source of income, but perhaps the rest aren’t so lucky and have to hold down normal jobs.

You can’t necessarily compare Lotrek to other designers who use standard printers either.

Lorenzo, while putting in tonnes of effort and has immense talent for coming up with new ideas and executing them in his own way, still ultimately submits his designs to a big printing company, who then takes care of it all and ultimately he can forget about the print process, to a point.

His, and many other creator’s, decks are ‘standard’ in that they use mass-printing companies with near limitless resources of standard paper stock, etc.

Lotrek is using what I presume are smaller, independent specialist printers, who can utilise less-standard materials to get the product he wants to make tangible for us to experience.

Those materials, as we’ve learned from the few interviews he’s done, behave very differently to standard card stocks and inks used by the likes of USPPC, Cartamundi and the many other printers used by everyone else.

I for one would not want Lotrek to send out a sub-par product, misaligned or whatever it may be, just to try and keep up with the perceived ‘norm’.

He’s in his own league, perhaps used very similar courts, but the execution of all the other factors, especially foil, is what I’m it for.

The Oath (and earlier, under HMPC) decks I own have been, and always will be, my most treasured possessions, because they stand out from everything else I’ve ever picked up.

[steampunk52]

I sincerely hope Lotrek can deliver Year 1 soon so that certain people can finally STFU and let the rest of us get on with patiently waiting for something we still believe is worth our continued support.

Personally, I feel this sentiment lacks empathy for those that contributed to the Patreon and are rightly frustrated by the lack of accountability in managing the process. While you may be fine with the delays and you are entitled to the way you feel, others are allowed to feel as they do. While you express significant empathy for Lotrek, let's not forget that he took money from people with the promise of decks in return. So yes, several years out, some of us are frustrated.

If I recall, when he first started the Patreon, he said he was hesitant to do so because the doesnt really like posting, emailing, etc. And while he decided to actually launch the Patreon, he said not to expect to much in terms or work in progress or updates. So going in, Year 1 patrons knew this. Speaking for myself the quantity of work in progress updates hasn't been a big deal.

However, he did not say that rewards might come 3-4 years later. Keep in mind, we are a handful of months aways from the start of year FIVE. I don't think Lotrek has tried to mislead and I do think he is trying to get stuff out the door. I also appreciate his efforts at throwing in a few decks in here and there as a way of saying "Sorry, hang in there". But that is not what everyone signed up for and not everyone is ok with that. I would not have signed up if I knew I was going to pay ~$700 by Oct 2021 and not receive the decks in question until 2024.

I am still a Patron, and I own that. But that is in part because of the 'almost there' updates and taking them at their word. Now it feels like Lucy setting up the football for Charlie Brown (for those familiar with the Peanuts gang) and he tends to make light of it. To Harvonsgard's post above, it's really not funny anymore.

Lorenzo has a portion of his Patreon that will likely be 6 months or so late. How he manages this is night and day from Lotrek. He communicates frequently to let us know what's up and you can tell in his posts that this likely bothers him more than the Patrons. He holds himself to a high standard of accountability to his audience. Lotrek treats it as an ongoing joke. Why would you say "we will try to have Year 1 out by end of April" and then April leaves with silence. Surely he knew he was not going to make April for the Mystery III deck. Why say April then? Why have the Patron decks sitting around for months and then decide to reprint? Why say it will take 7-10 days to reprint? It's been months now. How could you not know that it would me more than 7-10 days?

I know estimating with a lot of moving parts can be difficult. I get it. Stuff happens. But goodness this is hard to understand. This isn't a moon shot. It's a few decks of cards. I've seen entire manufacturing operations go up in less time.