Cartamundi Factory Relocation / Closure

[hsbc]

Ran across these PDFs while looking into Cartamundi, lots of interesting info in here:

• 2021 Good Neighbor Report
• 2022 Good Neighbor Report

"Cardistry and magicians" account for 2% of their business...

[Evilgamer]

yeah that makes it sound like a rounding error.

550Million decks, Id honestly be surprised if custom decks even at it highest point was a million a year.

[hsbc]

I also found this letter from last August, which has aged not too well:

HI All,

We have some important news to share with you regarding our playing card production and the overall customer experience for our production plant in Belgium.

In recent months, we've faced production and technical challenges at our current manufacturing facility. As a result, we haven't been able to provide the level of service we'd like to, and we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. In light of these issues, we've carefully considered our options to ensure that we can offer you the quality and service you deserve. After much thought, we've decided to move all European playing card production to our Fournier plant in Spain, starting production in January 2024. The Fournier plant is known for its expertise and commitment to crafting high-quality playing cards. By bringing all production operations to this facility, we truly believe we can enhance the reliability and efficiency of ourprocesses, which will ultimately benefit you.

We know a move from one production facility to another can be precarious but were ensuring that the quality and capabilities of those in the Fournier plant will be on par or better than what we can offer out of Belgium today. Faster and even more reliable cutting with the same clean edge, same board and linen finish you’re used to and a varnish that surpasses the current one in every test. With the same people that have developed the B9 true linen finish behind consulting our Spanish colleagues every step of the way.

Between now and January, we are experiencing a period where technically, all production is on hold. Several factors, such as capacity limitations, external dependencies, and unforeseen circumstances, have contributed to this situation. We understand the importance of timely delivery and are committed to finding solutions to minimize disruptions to your projects. Despite the production challenges, please be assured that we will do our best to prioritize certain critical projects and push them through, even in these trying circumstances.

However, it's essential to acknowledge that finding fixed answers or definitive timelines is just as challenging for us as it is for you at this time. We are actively working on assessing the feasibility of each project and will communicate updates with you regularly. Our team is committed to maintaining open lines of communication and providing any information we can about the status of your projects. As we navigate through these uncertain times, we sincerely appreciate your understanding and support. Please know that we are dedicated to finding creative solutions and overcoming obstacles to ensure the success of your projects.

This decision is all about making sure you get the top-notch service you deserve and holding ourselves accountable for any past issues. Your satisfaction and loyalty mean the world to us, and we're fully committed to providing you with the best products and experiences.

We understand that changes like these can raise questions, and we're more than happy to address any concerns you may have. Please feel free to reach out anytime for any assistance or information you need. Your understanding and support are genuinely appreciated as we work to improve our playing card production and enhance your overall experience with us. We're excited to serve you with even better efficiency and quality from our Fournier plant in Spain.

Thank you for your attention.

Jirs Huygen
Global Maitre Cartier, Cartamundi

Ann Folders
Account Manager Cardistry, Cartamundi

August 10 2023

[montenzi]

By the way, the current USPCC minimum order quantity (MOQ) is 2500 decks for both standard and Bicycle branded! This means that both Cartamundi and USPCC are not available for small projects now. It wouldn't be surprising if we see a higher MOQ when (or if) they relaunch.

550Million decks, Id honestly be surprised if custom decks even at it highest point was a million a year.

1.5m decks daily?

[Honeybee]

Those numbers seem too big
Getting the calculator out
Pretending that all 4 continents have equal production capacity
That they are running non stop ie 24hrs a day for 365 days

Each continent is producing 4.36 decks a second

Forget the 4 continents, just say Cartamundi is producing 17.5 decks a second
If in reality the factories are only operating for 12hrs a day that would be 35 decks a second

If they are only operating 6 days a week and only for 50 weeks of the year that would be
42.5 decks per second (2,295 cards a second)

Mind Boggling

[kevork]

This guy maths^

[Evilgamer]

I don't think 42 decks a second is out of the realm of possibilities for having a few factories, thats probably not more than 42-50 printing machines.

Yes thats assuming that the other stages can keep up.

I know that WJPC sent video of the spirits deck being printed and it wasnt taking much more than a second to print each sheet.

When you factor in them churning out MTG cards (famously overprinted now) and all their other mass stuff, yeah I believe they can sell that many.

[Adamthinks]

By the way, the current USPCC minimum order quantity (MOQ) is 2500 decks for both standard and Bicycle branded! This means that both Cartamundi and USPCC are not available for small projects now. It wouldn't be surprising if we see a higher MOQ when (or if) they relaunch.

550Million decks, Id honestly be surprised if custom decks even at it highest point was a million a year.

1.5m decks daily?

Well damn, that wipes out USPCC as an option for producers that are scrambling right now.

[Evilgamer]

Yeah thats a lot of decks, Giovanni said this morning he had orders for 2500 decks for revenant...but thats between 3 different decks (2 USPCC, one Kingstar).

And thats TWI...one of the best known brands.

[brownsl]

Seeing these numbers reminds me of when I use to go to a manufacturer that made Pepsi product 20oz and 2 liter bottles. They made over 3 million bottles a day, 1 billion bottles a year. They had multiple lines but on any single line the bottles moving were just a blur. It was crazy to see.

[Harvonsgard]

I'm still surprised how seemingly fast their production went down. They came up with C9 in 2016 and B9 came up after that in the public space. Let's give them 2 or 3 years of r'n'd, which means they went from hero to zero in roughly 10 years??? Boogles my mind.

[rousselle]

Things must have been *really* bad in Belgium for them to decide to shut down such a massive operation before spooling up in Spain. There's no way that the goal was to move all the equipment over, since they are clearly not using the same equipment. Or paper. Or varnish. Or process. And there's no way they moved over all their personnel, either. Their stated plan was to use facilities that were already up and running. And, yet...

I'm sure they have very good reason for executing the move the way they did, some reason that is not to be shared with the public and unforeseen complications notwithstanding, but it must be a pretty fantastic problem to have made them shut down the old facility before ramping up the new one, because otherwise handling the move the way they are is mind-bogglingly incompetent.

I handled the move of my own printing business back, oh, about twenty years ago or so. It was only a move across town, and the logistics were still pretty massive. You simply don't move your multi-multi-million dollar operation a couple countries away without really, really planning this thing to within an inch of its life. Their plan was already bad, insofar as they were effectively shutting down a large part of their business for months even if everything went according to plan.

How long did it take for USPCC to move their operations across the river and across the state line from Cincinnati to Erlanger?

Or, are we to believe that they are only moving their custom card printing business, and it *only* prints a million and a half decks or so, so who cares if they essentially put that part of the business on hold by at least a year and damage their reputation in the process?

[hsbc]

I'm sure they have very good reason for executing the move the way they did, some reason that is not to be shared with the public and unforeseen complications notwithstanding, but it must be a pretty fantastic problem to have made them shut down the old facility before ramping up the new one, because otherwise handling the move the way they are is mind-bogglingly incompetent.

I wonder whether you're giving them too much credit...

[Adamthinks]

Or, are we to believe that they are only moving their custom card printing business, and it *only* prints a million and a half decks or so, so who cares if they essentially put that part of the business on hold by at least a year and damage their reputation in the process?

I think that's exactly what happened. They framed the whole situation like they were completely shutting down the facility, but they just shutdown the custom cards.

[Evilgamer]

I dont know what he was basing it on, but Omar\TGW clearly seems to know or believe that nothing was moved and they just repurposed the capacity in Belgium to MTG cards and similar.

[crazy_lazy]

Think Omar mentioned in his podcast that the Belgium factory is being kept operational but for MTG and Yugioh, and that custom playing cards make up a very small (2%) share of the card market. So Cartamundi has them at the lowest priority hence the downgrade in manufacturing plant.

As disappointing as it is to hear, that all seems to make sense from a business standpoint and I understand why they think custom playing card enthusiasts are irrelevant compared to name brand trading card game customers.

[GandalfPC]

all seems to make sense from a business standpoint and I understand why they think custom playing card enthusiasts are irrelevant compared to name brand trading card game customers.

I understand why <fill in blank> think custom playing card enthusiasts are irrelevant compared to <fill in blank>

But <fill in blank> don’t know what they are missing

[hsbc]

For the last week or so we had the potential to print with Cartamundi despite the official closure, using a slightly different technique as ONDA did not require special printing such as cold foil.

Unfortunately, despite the best efforts of our client manager, corporate have stepped in and put a halt on all custom playing card work for the foreseeable future. This is far more ominous than the previous update of June/September.

In short, Cartamundi have no concrete plans at present to reopen their facilities for printing playing cards (or at least the type of cards we know and love, perhaps trading cards and casino cards will continue with their relevant departments) and reading between the lines, there's certainly no rush to reopen them.

[Adamthinks]

For the last week or so we had the potential to print with Cartamundi despite the official closure, using a slightly different technique as ONDA did not require special printing such as cold foil.

Unfortunately, despite the best efforts of our client manager, corporate have stepped in and put a halt on all custom playing card work for the foreseeable future. This is far more ominous than the previous update of June/September.

In short, Cartamundi have no concrete plans at present to reopen their facilities for printing playing cards (or at least the type of cards we know and love, perhaps trading cards and casino cards will continue with their relevant departments) and reading between the lines, there's certainly no rush to reopen them.

I'm really confused why Jocu has been so adamant to try and still use Catamundi considering all the issues they've presented over the past 6+ months and the various issues with the test cards. Cartamundi indicated to TGW that the debossing roller was causing all sorts of issues and they would need to manufacture a new one which would take at least 6 months after which they'd need to start testing with it. I get that Jocu wants some consistency between the new version of Onda and the previous, but Cartamundi is no longer doing B9 slimline, so they were already going to be different.

[Bradius]

I think keeping production in the EU makes it logistically easier for Jocu, who is based in the EU. Plus, the had a sterling reputation. Admittedly that reputation has tarnished to the point of being in the trash bin at this point. I thought they did great decks, so it is sad for me to see them vanish.

Ah well...

[Adamthinks]

I think keeping production in the EU makes it logistically easier for Jocu, who is based in the EU.

Ahh, good point, that would definitely simplify things quite a bit.

[TheGentlemanWake]

I think keeping production in the EU makes it logistically easier for Jocu, who is based in the EU. Plus, the had a sterling reputation. Admittedly that reputation has tarnished to the point of being in the trash bin at this point. I thought they did great decks, so it is sad for me to see them vanish.

Ah well...

This will definitely be a challenge to handle on Beetlebacks. I'm currently not sure what I will do to cover the costs of VAT and duties when the decks are imported into the EU. The campaign as it was was not ultra profitable. It was the last deck I produce with the 'old way' of thinking. The cards market has changed. In many ways weaker than ever. I think Cartamundi's willingness to let the custom cards market go (even if eventually they do return) is evidence of that.

[Adamthinks]

I think keeping production in the EU makes it logistically easier for Jocu, who is based in the EU. Plus, the had a sterling reputation. Admittedly that reputation has tarnished to the point of being in the trash bin at this point. I thought they did great decks, so it is sad for me to see them vanish.

Ah well...

This will definitely be a challenge to handle on Beetlebacks. I'm currently not sure what I will do to cover the costs of VAT and duties when the decks are imported into the EU. The campaign as it was was not ultra profitable. It was the last deck I produce with the 'old way' of thinking. The cards market has changed. In many ways weaker than ever. I think Cartamundi's willingness to let the custom cards market go (even if eventually they do return) is evidence of that.

All of that makes sense. I'm curious as to how you're thinking of doing it differently in the future.

As to VAT and such, my understanding is that it isn't calculated/charged until the package arrives in the destination country. I'm not sure there would be a way for you to cover it. Maybe if you offered a coupon or credit on your website for those affected? I'm in the US so that doesn't affect me, and perhaps this rings hollow because of that, but I wouldn't expect you to cover it either way as these circumstances were out of your control. Though with 588 backers I'm sure there will be some that disagree.

[Harvonsgard]

IMG_6287.jpeg (36.74 KiB) Viewed 1747 times

[laitostarr777]

Now I feel envy for those who managed to secured any playing cards projects that prototyped using Cartamundi…. Final of those decks had moved to other printers.

[kevork]

Per most recent Deal Me In podcast episode, Cartamundi has officially, indefinitely closed it's production for their custom playing card division.

@ 2m18s

[Harvonsgard]

Now that's some great fookin news !

[Eric Lee]

This got interesting. KS had a couple of card projects from Poland that used Cartamundi Poland branch to print. They had no problems getting the work done. Thornwood's relaunch addressed that issue directly in the 4th update:

I know some of you were concerned about reports from other campaigns regarding alleged delays at Cartamundi. Today, I spoke with a representative from the factory in Poland, and they assured me that there are no delays on their end. They, like me, are committed to delivering a superb product.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ba ... ts/4099779

So does that mean all custom playing cards can still use Cartamundi Poland for the projects? Harv may not like this so much, but it could be worth checking out for those who would still want to keep with Cartamundi.

[Adamthinks]

This got interesting. KS had a couple of card projects from Poland that used Cartamundi Poland branch to print. They had no problems getting the work done. Thornwood's relaunch addressed that issue directly in the 4th update:

I know some of you were concerned about reports from other campaigns regarding alleged delays at Cartamundi. Today, I spoke with a representative from the factory in Poland, and they assured me that there are no delays on their end. They, like me, are committed to delivering a superb product.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ba ... ts/4099779

So does that mean all custom playing cards can still use Cartamundi Poland for the projects? Harv may not like this so much, but it could be worth checking out for those who would still want to keep with Cartamundi.

I can't remember who, but it was pointed out that the Poland factory is their print to order facility. The quality and stock used is very different. I backed that Thornwood project though, so when they arrive I'll pass on my experience of them.

[Eric Lee]

Ah, thanks for confirming that. Interestingly enough, the Slavic Gods KS said that they'll be using the Copag 310 stock. I was surprised when I saw that as I missed it the first time. As I also have a 310 Neo deck, I'll definitely be doing a comparison when it arrives.