Monte Carlo Diffractor (OATH x VXD)

[laitostarr777]

I am out of the loop
What is this bet about? Is it about, whether designers stop printing cards in the next 5 years?

[GandalfPC]

Appears to be the printing method - also first I am seeing this…

[juxtaposed]

there's another bet iirc, that he's gonna win some award
(for his tech used, or printing tech. which i'm not going to search through the forum. not worth the effort.)

[GandalfPC]

May not be worth the effort, but being a betting man I will take the bet - I have seen the big makers shift towards smaller custom runs and step up their abilities over the years - and I have seen brand loyalty - I don’t think they are going to go away in favor of some printing tech - they will just get the bigger better more capable version of that tech and throw a half million more into varnish research.

[PiazzaDelivery]

I've got a better one for you. I win at the end of this year.

Aha...works again.

Ok, I have a bet for anyone that wants to take (bring on our worst enemy here lol). Here it is....in either 2022 or in 2023, we will get the award for best innovation.

I lay a free metal deck of your choice to anyone who bets against me on that, but if you lose....

you have to post a picture of your real self in front of your card collection with a sign saying "Ok, so I was wrong"

We have conceived something that will change playing cards literally forever...how they are made basically. I want that innovation award! Haha

Award for Innovation with what organization? Who gives out such an award? Yeah, I'll take that bet, and I'll throw in an unnecessarily fat pledge on whatever Kickstarter you're running at the time.

[kevork]

Ha, what an easy bet to take on. Count me in.

[laitostarr777]

So is the bet has something to do with: VXD boasting his “patented” tech will surpass ALL of the printing companies there are?

Egotastic much?

[kevork]

So is the bet has something to do with: VXD boasting his “patented” tech will surpass ALL of the printing companies there are?

Egotastic much?

That or very out of touch with reality.

[GandalfPC]

I think he likes the economy of scale with his being a small machine - but I want cards that faro and fan - and keep doing that - I want alignment - snap - quality.

I don’t really care about which machine its made on - but seeing the crushing needed, cutting for good faros needed, varnish for lasting performance, etc - I’m just not going to believe the big guys won’t keep the edge for a good time to come.


When it comes to small printers - Lotrek, Tengudo, Elaine - people who get handsy with cards and use more manual small machines to press plates etc - thats when I care about which machine did it more than the above factors.

And as for the “holo when looked at from an angle like security tape” - yes, I like it - on this deck - just once for me - not a thing for me otherwise - I like my holo to pop from as many angles as possible and not hide from view in the usual course.

[laitostarr777]

And as for the “holo when looked at from an angle like security tape” - yes, I like it - on this deck - just once for me - not a thing for me otherwise - I like my holo to pop from as many angles as possible and not hide from view in the usual course.

What VXD did is just so innovative, although... what's the point of keeping holo elements hidden while you can get the full sheen of holographic foil out in the open? Call me weird, but I like to take out holo decks out in the open under the basking sun, just to admire the shininess and the rainbow sheen. Besides, many people would agree with me: they would prefer holo to pop out from every angles and all visible.

Plus, I lose respect onto VXD after his charade three years ago accusing Jackson of violating his precious "patented" holographic foiled cards

[laitostarr777]

Guru

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I'll take a bet with you now that in 5-10 years time, most of the top designers (of custom playing cards) will be working with Print Finishers, rather than playing card factories. It makes sense, because these print finishers can easily do what playing card factories do, but the reverse does not apply. Plus a top-end print finisher is set up business-model wise to produce smaller runs of high value product, which better suits the direction that the (custom) playing card market is going. The only 'trade secret' that playing card factories possessed (until recently) was their card-sorting machines, but these days with China reverse-engineering simple machines and the power of web searches and easy communication, that barrier is gone. The rest is a piece of cake. And CHEAP. Card sorting machine = $50K. Cutting machine = $110K. Cello-wrapping = less (but not exactly sure). Compared to a $1.5M machine.

Remember, Cartamundi etc make most of their cash from selling very basic cards to casinos. 90% of revenues. Custom playing cards is not their focus at all and they cannot survive easily by just supplying the custom playing card market. Too many of them too.

Give it a few years....you'll see the shift. Bets?

Sorry, I missed this and would love to bet on this. I am good sport & it will just be fun to come back after 5 years ( 10 years sound too far ahead), and use this same thread and conversation again. I have already bookmarked this post and put up a reminder for May 4th, 2025. Why not May 3rd? Because I like 4th more.

It will also be great to still have UC and all these folks that are regulars now. And to be specifically clear, after 5 years, the most of the designers of custom playing card deck will still be printing their decks (some already do their tucks with them so that rules out and here we are talking about cards) through playing card factories and not print finishers.

I think it will be great for both of us to come back after 5 years and comment on the current situation then.

May the fourth be with you.

Had a reminder set up for the wrong date n year. Anyways, I think the bet is still on . 2 years more to go.

What does he meant of: Print Finishers? Did he mean: printers who just apply decorations on cards?

[Harvonsgard]

Print finishers are specialized in applying foils, embossing and alike. Everything that comes after the offset print process. I wouldn't call it just applying decorations.

[GandalfPC]

And rather than focus on awards for innovation, let’s just aim low first and fulfill promises made.

[Strag]

I guess this is another creator who has decided to ghost their backers and run with the money. So tired of this. If you go to the web site this is what you see:

[brownsl]

Disappointing. I lost quite a bit of money with this one. Definitely can appreciate you swearing off KS.

[Harvonsgard]

Artwork was always mediocre (Oath aside) and the patented features were nice for one time. Dunno how people could put more money into these projects, after the creators (not Lotrék of course) managed to unveil a more than questionable character? I guess it's that completist thing I'll never get anyways.

[Strag]

I didn't back any other VXD project. I only own one VXD deck which I bought opened off Facebook just to see the tech. I backed this one ONLY for the Lotrek deck.

[GandalfPC]

He hasn’t been here since May, not so sure he’s not coming back. (no longer so sure he is, but that website is on hold, not pulled down…)


Of course it could all be lies and scams, though I don’t really see any difference in not getting my pledge reward for one reason or the other in the material sense or the legal sense - both add up to nothing unless a deck arrives when it comes to kickstarter.

But in the non-material sense I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is having trouble like Minty.

[Strag]

Yeah I get that people have mental health issues. I am sure that the stress of not delivering and meeting peoples expectations can weigh heavily on a person and probably contribute to those struggles. I really do empathise and feel for those with genuine mental health issues.

But at least try to have the ability to own it, apologise and if you aren't going to deliver, give closure to those who backed. Many of us can also feel stressed about not receiving our rewards and not being heard, respected or responded to. Often times it's the creators that we are told to have patience for or give the benefit of the doubt. But those who gave their money and their trust are often left out in the cold.

Not saying that's what you are doing here @GandalfPC, just more a comment and observation from my side that there are quite a lot of people impacted when a creator choose not to or is unable to deliver.

[GandalfPC]

It is true, there is a responsibility people should hold through recovery and not everyone lives up to that, its not a blanket excuse for all behavior - its easier to just walk away, but its usually not due to necessity but to poor choice and often heavy rationalizations. No excuse to walk away if you can walk.

[Bradius]

The fact that the website is even temporarily down is a bad sign as it does show a lack of activity and attention to the project. That is just one of the problems when these projects get way behind schedule. One of the big costs of delay that weighs on creators is the higher shipping and production costs. I know they decided to move away from the printer they have used for prior projects, which was disappointing to me having had their other works.

I am still optimistic that this will fulfil eventually. That said, communication would help, even if only to say "I'm still around".

[Bikefanatic]

If the quality isn't there, I'll accept the decks however they can come.

[brownsl]

Just got this message from Kickstarter concerning the Monte Carlo Diffractor project.

"We regret to inform you that the account will be closed as Andrew Dodds took his own life on 20th August this year."

Incredibly sad.

[Strag]

Wow. No words.

It's often the case that when something like this is written about in the UK there is usually something at the end of the article listing numbers and resources for people to get help. I want to echo that here. Please, if anyone here is feeling this way, do seek help. It's there if you need it in countries all over the world. Things can appear insurmountable and men in particular can have trouble appearing vulnerable or asking for help. Please, do it for yourself and for those who love you.

So sad.

[Disenchanted_11]

Holy sht that's terribly sad news for everyone involved.

May I ask why this 3rd installment of diffractor series went into a different KS account than the first 2?

[Bradius]

Oh no...

[Harvonsgard]

I just opened UC... I guess it's enough UC for today already. Horrible news.
I can just highlight Strag's post above. No money, business or obligation is more important than life. If a situation seems unbearable never be afraid or ashamed to ask for professional help.

I wish y'all a good day. See you tomorrow.

[GandalfPC]

I am without words - just plain awful news

[rockets455]

ill probably get dragged over the coals for this but this just reeks of vxd trying to get out of fulfilling this project.

why would Kickstarter post an update on a random project. I have never in 10 years+ seen Kickstarter do something like this

If it's actually Kickstarter then why are they posting under the diffractor playing cards account. they don't have an official Kickstarter account to comment?

how would they even know this happened and when. wouldn't it make more sense if a family member posted? why does ks think now it is their responsibility to announce this, from the diffractor account

why would a major company announce someone committed suicide, even if they did. they would likelier say he passed away.

usually if someone is announced to have killed themselves by a corporation, they include links and info resources for suicide prevention

if this person truly did pass away, condolences to the family. very sad situation. but this message just blows my mind in how unbelievable it is to me

i will contact ks to ask if this was actually them.

[laitostarr777]

Just got this message from Kickstarter concerning the Monte Carlo Diffractor project.

"We regret to inform you that the account will be closed as Andrew Dodds took his own life on 20th August this year."

Incredibly sad.

Gosh... I am so sorry to hear.... It must be really hard on him to bear all the problems encountered...