Heartless by Thirdway Industries

[CCwonder]

I hope that it won't be starting a new trend of 1 deck per quarter because that makes them quite pricey.

He explained it's because of Hybris:

As said before, Hybris is a huge project - at least 3 different decks.

I decided to release just 1 limited deck (gilded) for Q4 2023. This one will be shipped along with Hybris, and will be revealed soon, probably in October.

Why should a good yearly reward take away from the quarterly rewards? What about patrons who don't benefit from the yearly because they aren't eligible?

[kevork]

If one project requires more intensive work, it's naturally going to eat into time spent on other endeavors. Unless Gio can crack time and space, or clone himself. That's a secret he'd keep close.

[CCwonder]

If one project requires more intensive work, it's naturally going to eat into time spent on other endeavors. Unless Gio can crack time and space, or clone himself. That's a secret he'd keep close.

If only it were possible. He puts a lot of effort into his art and could use a second set of hands.

[Evilgamer]

Giovanni always has multiple irons in the fire. The Q4 heartless deck is printed by Cartamundi, hes actually had it for awhile (based on what he said yesterday I expect it to be publicly sold today at some point) but I know hes working on a number of other things. He seems to like to have the next years kickstarter decks pretty far along at this point not to mention the patreon stuff. He's mentioned a large part of the reason for the recent (and still going) mystery box sale was to clear space for things that were coming in.

[Thirdway Industries]

Hello guys! Thanks for the kind words, some posts made me smile (especially thinking about a clone of myself or having a couple of extra arms - that would be useful haha

Just to clarify, I'm planning to raise the overall value of Patreon during the years - however, I am purposely shifting some value from the "monthly" to "yearly" (this was announced since 2021, Patrons should not be surprised, I hope).
Anyways, most Patrons are eligible for both Hybris and Elysium, making the Q4 the "best" quarter overall.

I will send a survey to Patrons for decide Patreon 2024, but I'm not thinking it won't be so much different than 2023 (some monthly rewards + huge yearly reward).
Ideally I would reduce a little the monthly to improve the yearly also in 2024... but I'm not sure how I can top Hybris, so I may keep things as they are

A thing that will happen almost for sure is that I'll probably reduce the copies I will make for each deck, unlimited included.
This should benefit me (less expenses upfront), GW (less space used) and backers/Patrons (rarer decks).
It's not easy to do that, but it's probably the most important improvement I have to make during next year.

Thank you very much everyone again for the comments, really appreciated!

[zuccha]

I've been thinking about staying away from back color variations and gilding, but Heartless is my favorite Gio deck, so I bought Elysium.

I buy multiple decks of my favorites so I can paint the edge and have fun.

[Evilgamer]

since this got bumped Elysium went on sale today for preorder

https://www.thirdsiren.it/product/heartless-elysium/

10 euro off with code elysium22 until Friday

(only showing 2 available at the moment Im sure he has more)

[laitostarr777]

it appears TWI will always have something on Black Friday every year hahah XD *gulp*

[Honeybee]

Some other things to consider…


I am NOT accepting new Patrons from 1 December 2023, so if you are interested in Hybris, please remember to subscribe TWI Patreon before 30th November 2023!

TWI email today included the above. Why would a designer limit their patrons?

[CCwonder]

Some other things to consider…


I am NOT accepting new Patrons from 1 December 2023, so if you are interested in Hybris, please remember to subscribe TWI Patreon before 30th November 2023!

TWI email today included the above. Why would a designer limit their patrons?

Good question. FOMO?

[rousselle]

That, or an already limited print run of some of the relevant decks and not enough unclaimed remaining in inventory.

[Evilgamer]

I mean if you want S17 patron for any rewards you have to join in January.

[CCwonder]

I mean if you want S17 patron for any rewards you have to join in January.

In Lorenzo's case I think he wants to know what he has to work with for the year and I think the same goes for Gio pushing hard for yearly subs. In regards to honeybees comment, i think Gio does want more patrons but having a deadline for Hybris will help with his preparations as well as create a FOMO effect.

[Bradius]

One problem though with Gio's annual option is that it could be pushed at any point in the year.

[JacksandJokers]

I presumed Gio meant he wasn't accepting any new patreons during December for the 2023 rewards but would open the subs up again in January for 2024 - Could be wrong, this was just my interpretation.

[Thirdway Industries]

I am not accepting new Patrons after 30 Nov because manage yearly memberships in December is very complex and I prefer avoid some "issues" I had in the previous years with the last minute Patrons.
I am currently trying to reward as best as possible the "long term Patrons" - allow new people to join in Dec to snag Hybris -after everything will be revealed- is not exactly what I had in mind

Plus I want to start fetching the data and prepare the spreadsheets without add last minute stuff

I have not decided yet what I'll do in 2024 - Patreon survey will help me to take decisions.
However is likely I'll open new slots in January, or at least I will allow the new Patrons to get the slots of the ones who'll decide to cancel.

[Honeybee]

It would defeat the purpose of being a Patron if it was proving a 'weight' on designers instead of support.
Maybe not a great analogy, but it is hard to imagine a football club ever refusing memberships.
Maybe just open up slots in Jan and Feb each year?
Make sure you enjoy what you are doing Gio - all the best

[kevork]

Lorenzo has a nice approach. Open enrollment for one whole month, after which all tiers are locked except for his lowest tier. The lowest tier has access to posts but isn't provided any physical goods. I imagine closing enrollment is for the same reasons you have, Gio, where constantly changing the spreadsheets, etc. becomes too cumbersome. Lotrek also closes enrollment after having all tiers open for one month out of the year, before the next yearly cycle begins.

Since I started collecting in March 2022, Lorenzo's lowest tier was the only one available at the time. At the end of the year, he had a couple "packages" of the 2022 rewards and so he made those available to the pips tier in January 2023, limited to one set per person. I was able to grab all the decks from the 2022 Patreon year for the same price it would've cost me to pay over the 12 month period, effectively catching me up. I thought that was awesome. My money went to him directly rather than the secondary market. It was very thoughtful.

[CCwonder]

I am not accepting new Patrons after 30 Nov because manage yearly memberships in December is very complex and I prefer avoid some "issues" I had in the previous years with the last minute Patrons.
I am currently trying to reward as best as possible the "long term Patrons" - allow new people to join in Dec to snag Hybris -after everything will be revealed- is not exactly what I had in mind

Plus I want to start fetching the data and prepare the spreadsheets without add last minute stuff

I have not decided yet what I'll do in 2024 - Patreon survey will help me to take decisions.
However is likely I'll open new slots in January, or at least I will allow the new Patrons to get the slots of the ones who'll decide to cancel.

I'm confused. Are you saying that you don't want to allow people to join after the yearly Hybris reward is revealed? Wouldn't that be more incentive for people to join?

[Honeybee]

Lorenzo has a nice approach. Open enrollment for one whole month, after which all tiers are locked except for his lowest tier. The lowest tier has access to posts but isn't provided any physical goods. I imagine closing enrollment is for the same reasons you have, Gio, where constantly changing the spreadsheets, etc. becomes too cumbersome. Lotrek also closes enrollment after having all tiers open for one month out of the year, before the next yearly cycle begins.

Since I started collecting in March 2022, Lorenzo's lowest tier was the only one available at the time. At the end of the year, he had a couple "packages" of the 2022 rewards and so he made those available to the pips tier in January 2023, limited to one set per person. I was able to grab all the decks from the 2022 Patreon year for the same price it would've cost me to pay over the 12 month period, effectively catching me up. I thought that was awesome. My money went to him directly rather than the secondary market. It was very thoughtful.

And yet there is something basically wrong with their system if a cardophile like your good self cannot become a full supporter

[KingfisherZero]

I'm confused. Are you saying that you don't want to allow people to join after the yearly Hybris reward is revealed? Wouldn't that be more incentive for people to join?

I think the sentiment here was that the POINT of big year end rewards was as a thank you to those who have been long time supporters. It wasn't intended to be something that after announced got people to hop on just to get it. I imagine the "better" design is for people to be enticed to sign on for a year in the hopes of some great stuff at the end. As opposed to SEEING the year end reward and signing on to get it if it's what they want - if that makes sense. Because it gives predictability to the production numbers needed and allows for much cleaner planning.

I think Lorenzo's approach works well as Kevork mentioned. Sign on for a year with the numbers locked after that - and you are in for whatever rewards that year brings. Next year you have a chance for THAT batch.

[Strag]

Lorenzo has a nice approach. Open enrollment for one whole month, after which all tiers are locked except for his lowest tier. The lowest tier has access to posts but isn't provided any physical goods. I imagine closing enrollment is for the same reasons you have, Gio, where constantly changing the spreadsheets, etc. becomes too cumbersome. Lotrek also closes enrollment after having all tiers open for one month out of the year, before the next yearly cycle begins.

Since I started collecting in March 2022, Lorenzo's lowest tier was the only one available at the time. At the end of the year, he had a couple "packages" of the 2022 rewards and so he made those available to the pips tier in January 2023, limited to one set per person. I was able to grab all the decks from the 2022 Patreon year for the same price it would've cost me to pay over the 12 month period, effectively catching me up. I thought that was awesome. My money went to him directly rather than the secondary market. It was very thoughtful.

And yet there is something basically wrong with their system if a cardophile like your good self cannot become a full supporter

Except he did the following year? Not sure what's wrong with the system in this case, Kevork got evertyhing he wanted (including being able to see all the posts throughout the time he was a lower tier member) and then got all the rewards at once for the same cost? All worked out, no?

[CCwonder]

I'm confused. Are you saying that you don't want to allow people to join after the yearly Hybris reward is revealed? Wouldn't that be more incentive for people to join?

I think the sentiment here was that the POINT of big year end rewards was as a thank you to those who have been long time supporters. It wasn't intended to be something that after announced got people to hop on just to get it. I imagine the "better" design is for people to be enticed to sign on for a year in the hopes of some great stuff at the end. As opposed to SEEING the year end reward and signing on to get it if it's what they want - if that makes sense. Because it gives predictability to the production numbers needed and allows for much cleaner planning.

I think Lorenzo's approach works well as Kevork mentioned. Sign on for a year with the numbers locked after that - and you are in for whatever rewards that year brings. Next year you have a chance for THAT batch.

In a previous comment I noted that the deadline probably has something to do with Gio being able to be more prepared with orders. As you and Gio say, it is about rewarding loyal patrons. The part that was off to me is if people aren't able to decide to hop on after all the yearly rewards are disclosed, which would allow for more people to join if the reward was worth it to them, then they also can't hop off if they don't like the outcome. They are forced to go all in blindly. In regards to the preparation aspect, he could announce the rewards earlier and have the time needed to prepare.

[Evilgamer]

Giovanni already announced WHAT the reward is, its 3 decks. This isnt an 12th hour/month news item.

We even discussed it here. https://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopi ... is#p241104

Hes been saying for at least a month now "if you want it, buy an annual patreon" and before that to those of us who were new to his patreon to make a catchup payment (and get everything that was released this year) to get it.

Details are here should be an open patreon link

https://www.patreon.com/posts/h-y-b-r-i ... =119575938

[CCwonder]

Giovanni already announced WHAT the reward is, its 3 decks. This isnt an 12th hour/month news item.

We even discussed it here. https://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopi ... is#p241104

Hes been saying for at least a month now "if you want it, buy an annual patreon" and before that to those of us who were new to his patreon to make a catchup payment (and get everything that was released this year) to get it.

Details are here should be an open patreon link

https://www.patreon.com/posts/h-y-b-r-i ... =119575938

I'm talking about the whole package. Whether or not the box and whatever else will be included. That is a 12th hour decision I guess. It could be the deciding factor for some people.

[Evilgamer]

True, the last thing he said was about 10 days ago "likely, but still not confirmed".

[CCwonder]

True, the last thing he said was about 10 days ago "likely, but still not confirmed".

That has been said multiple times so it makes me hopeful that it will happen. I know the explanation for no guarantee was that it may not be ready in time but I don't know why it can't be confirmed because if there are delays then he can ship the yearly reward a little later or ship it along with the Q1 rewards. Maybe someone can suggest a reason why these 2 options would not work.

[Evilgamer]

Year rewards, 4q rewards and now 2 Other things are all shipping together. I doubt most people would want that delayed any more than it has to be. Also 1q could be March

[CCwonder]

Year rewards, 4q rewards and now 2 Other things are all shipping together. I doubt most people would want that delayed any more than it has to be. Also 1q could be March

That makes some sense. The box/extras could be shipped with Q1 while the Hybris decks themselves and Elysium and Black Rose would still ship by the year's end. What are the 2 other things you mentioned. Is there something else besides the Hybris, Elysium and Black Rose?

[Evilgamer]

Black rose was one, the second is extra copies of Elysium and anything else patrons buy from the Black Friday sale from the existing pool.

Unless Giovanni pulls another rabbit from the hat that he hasn't even told patrons about, this is all the 2023 decks.