[Shade] A little of this & a whole lot of that

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Lotrek mail day - Christmas in September...
Did not realize the Redemptions V had a blue tuck until I took this picture. Looks black in natural light.

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Couple additional Tuck Uncuts added to my collection. Added to my Eye of the Ocean tucks with the red Intrepid tuck.

Added Fable tuck

Also got this little Gem, believe it is a test print of the Royal Silk tuck - really like the Gold on Black very reminiscent of the Icons Anniversary tuck colors.

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Pulled this off ebay, been spending too much time on Acetofive's thread, expanding into some foreign decks. I got this due to the cool (bit tattered) box they came in. Tucks are really fragile cardboard.

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REDEMPTIONS No.IV - Frost Silk Players
I really, really like how this deck turned out, so much I opened another deck to play around with the cards.
The cards are amazing, and the Silver Gilding looks fantastic. Took a few photos...

Redemptions Tuck - Mat Black with Silver Foil

Really like how he made it look like a Book with sides resembling gilded pages.

Opening both Tucks to reveal the cards

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Frost Silk Players Teal Tuck with Silver Foil

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Finally the Silk Court Cards & Jokers

Comes with 2 Jokers, Signed Card & Double Backer card

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Opened a Royal Silk Deck as well...
Needed to see what all the fuss was over.

I do find the fine level of detail on the Tuck Embossing amazing

Tuck Opened... Lotrek really missed out on the Gilding, doesn't look like much at first.

Well... all I can say is Gold Foil, Gold Foil & yes more Gold Foil.
The Gold Foiling on card back and faces, is over the top!
You have to look at the edges of the cards to see the color of the stock

Full Spread of Courts...

[Adamthinks]

Is it just the pictures or is the bleed through really that significant with the Royal Silk?

[jasonx73it]

Is it just the pictures or is the bleed through really that significant with the Royal Silk?

It is noticeable

[kevork]

Also got this little Gem, believe it is a test print of the Royal Silk tuck - really like the Gold on Black very reminiscent of the Icons Anniversary tuck colors.
20230930_112405.jpg

A previous iteration of Royal Silk involved Gold foil on black card stock. This would've likely been the tuck for it prior to Lotrek opting to go with Red and Purple card stocks.

Is it just the pictures or is the bleed through really that significant with the Royal Silk?

There is definitely bleed through on the final print of the deck. The card stock is very thin and I'm sure Lotrek had his reasons to do it this way, but the bleed through is unfortunate.

[Adamthinks]

Also got this little Gem, believe it is a test print of the Royal Silk tuck - really like the Gold on Black very reminiscent of the Icons Anniversary tuck colors.
20230930_112405.jpg

A previous iteration of Royal Silk involved Gold foil on black card stock. This would've likely been the tuck for it prior to Lotrek opting to go with Red and Purple card stocks.

Is it just the pictures or is the bleed through really that significant with the Royal Silk?

There is definitely bleed through on the final print of the deck. The card stock is very thin and I'm sure Lotrek had his reasons to do it this way, but the bleed through is unfortunate.

Man, after waiting all that time for it through many many many delays, I'd be pretty bummed and disillusioned about future orders.

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A previous iteration of Royal Silk involved Gold foil on black card stock. This would've likely been the tuck for it prior to Lotrek opting to go with Red and Purple card stocks.

Is it just the pictures or is the bleed through really that significant with the Royal Silk?

There is definitely bleed through on the final print of the deck. The card stock is very thin and I'm sure Lotrek had his reasons to do it this way, but the bleed through is unfortunate.

Man, after waiting all that time for it through many many many delays, I'd be pretty bummed and disillusioned about future orders.

I think there are a couple things going on here. First I believe the camera is picking up and magnifying the effect, similar to lint specs. I don't remember it being so noticeable with the naked eye. Although I was a bit dazzled by all the gold glare, and wasn't specifically looking for it. I did notice the chevron fields had spots that reflected the light differently. Second I think it is a product of the fine repeating chevron pattern in the field, where any slight variation of the stock from the pattern stamped on the back bleeds through the chevron pattern. So it is more noticeable on the cards with a lot of chevron field like Jokers and Aces. I didn't see much bleed on the backs which of course is the preference and allows the deck to still be playable. I think he probably stamped the back last to minimize the bleed from the front ( which is unfortunate since the card faces are the most interesting to look at ). He did mention it was the foiling he kept having problems with. Probably why it took him so long, trying to get a good balance, or at least as good as he could get it.

If I get some time this weekend I will pull the cards out again and go over them some more, I will take some more photos especially a spread of the backs.

[kevork]

What's your go-to method for hanging frames on the wall? I'm trying to explore whether non-invasive options like 3M's command strip variations are feasible.

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What's your go-to method for hanging frames on the wall? I'm trying to explore whether non-invasive options like 3M's command strip variations are feasible.

A screw in the wall, I have used the hooks with 1 or 2 pins before (much smaller hole) but they usually have a flat hook and it does not work well with the sawtooth hangers on most small frames.

I tried the 3M on my LeChat uncut and it fell off twice. They are very sensitive to the material and how much surface area they contact. Luckily the LeChat only fell a couple inches, but I abandoned them too risky.

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Royal SIlk - Part 2

As promised some pics of the back spreads...

Some additional Pics - You most definitely can see it & it is very dependent on angle of view.
Aces and Jokers are the worst since they have such a large back ground field.

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You can not see it on the Card Backs, and it is very minimal on the Court Cards.

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Is there a way to post videos (mp4)? I took some short clips of how the angle really affects the visibility of the bleed thru.

[GandalfPC]

Is there a way to post videos (mp4)? I took some short clips of how the angle really affects the visibility of the bleed thru.

Best way (only way?) to upload them to go through YouTube I think.

[rousselle]

Yeah, the bulletin board engine we're using here hasn't been updated in a while, so we don't have much of that fancy stuff. But, if I ever hear from Alex again, I'll bring up the topic with him (about being able to post short movies) and see what he says.

[Honeybee]

I am interested in this term 'bleed' through. Is this the correct technical term for what is happening on Royal Silk and on the Tale of the Tempest Wylenti that I have posted here?
I believe Bleeding occurs when ink soaks through a piece of paper to the other side.
The other definiton: 'Bleed is a printing term that refers to when printed objects on a page, such as images, background color, or graphics, extend past where the publication will be trimmed' and is certainly not we are talking about

To me what we are seeing here is more a case of 'silhouetting' or 'ghosting' for want of a better term but neither are correct as they have different meanings in printing

The best I can come up with is: the Opaqueness (or Opacity) is insufficient.
Opacity: The quality of the paper defines the opaqueness of it. If it isn’t opaque enough, your design might show through to the other side.

Does anyone have a better term?
Thoughts?

[Honeybee]

Watching the youtube clips on how USPCC make their cards. I have changed my mind about it being the opacity as I figure everybody probably uses black glue to join the front and back sheets of paper and you would not be able to see through black glue and have the Back paper sheet showing through

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QoNFN9ZZfE

So I looked at my Wylenti again and noticed you can actually feel the pattern coming through from the other side.
It has to be the way the foil is applied to the back - I hope Omar, Lotrek or any of our tech savvy members can explain it for us.
It has not bled or suffered from a lack of opacity - it has been stamped/imprinted from the back

Add to this the fact that the other non foil editions of Tale of the Tempest do not have the problem, it is clearly a foiling application problem

No doubt some of you already knew this - it is just that I was not comfortable with the term 'bleeding' being used because that is not what is happening IMO

I have not seen the Royal Silk deck so I cannot be sure it is the same as the Wylenti problem. Another possibility is Ink Set-Off: Ink that is unintentionally transferred from a printed sheet to the back of the sheet above it when the materials have been printed and are stacked in a pile. I somehow doubt the Royal Silk problem could be such an ink problem knowing Lotrek's high standards

ps This and the previous post are here because of the discussion about the Royal Silk 'bleeding' but if a Mod would like to move these 2 posts to The Tale of the Tempest thread or the Technical Reference section of the forum, they may be better placed there.

[Bradius]

I am really not worried about bleeding to the face side of the cards as those are what you as a player are looking at. If it bleads to the back, then that makes marked cards and can be a huge problem if using them in a game. Of course, noticeable bleeding to the face does detract from the beauty of the cards, which is an issue with collector of playing card art. I guess on my higher value cards, this is an issue. However, I take into account the complexity of the manufacturing process. This is just an issue with foiling that I deal with as I would rather have these nice hot foils rather than standard or metalic printing. I guess it is up to everyone to decide.

For $6 a deck though, this deck was a STEAL. I wish I had bought more at the time.....

[GandalfPC]

Yup - as the foils are put on with plates they can impress to the back.

With collector cards I would rather they mark the backs, otherwise the faces - and indeed, a half brick of Wylenti was hardly enough…

[Honeybee]

I take your points Bradius but the nerdy purpose of my posts is to find a correct term for what is happening here - it is not bleeding by definition
Maybe working from Gandalf's post it could be termed 'pressed through'

[acetofive]

I believe the effect shown on the reverse of a print when discussing debossing, embossing, or the transparency of the material is "show through." When discussing photographic prints with gallery owners, museums, etc., that's what we called it.

[GandalfPC]

I would concur - “show through” was the best result of an internet foray I did earlier today

[Honeybee]

Thanks men - "Show Through" seems the perfect descriptor
The glossary of print terms I was looking at only defined 100 terms and did not have that one

[GandalfPC]

I believe the Oni are usually responsible for this type of printing issue. “They are fierce demons who cause misfortune, spread illness, and torment the damned in hell.”

IMG_7863.jpeg (259.22 KiB) Viewed 38890 times

This particular one, in monks clothing with one horn broken is a particular representation “Oni no kannebutsu”, discussed here: https://yokai.com/oninokannebutsu/

“The painting is a satire of monks and priests who dress and act pious, but who actually behave in a manner more fitting an oni than a buddha. This kind of comical depiction of religious hypocrisy is a theme frequently found in yōkai art.

There is a hidden message in oni no kannebutsu. One of the oni’s horns is broken. In other words, this oni may be trying to break out of its self-delusion. The broken horn shows that it has succeeded to some degree, serving as a role model and a reminder for viewers to do the same. So on one level, the image is a caricature of religious hypocrisy, but on another level, it can be seen as a reminder of the path to salvation.”


brought to you by “The More You Know” Yokai edition

[TheGentlemanWake]

I’d call it over-stamping or over imprint. Or residual imprint. It’s just an artifact of the foiling process. Specifically the marking of the paper from the pressure and heat applied by the press when stamping the foil plate onto the paper.

[Honeybee]

Thanks Omar. Because of the cause I think 'Residual Imprint' is an excellent term for it.