OATH'S PATREON -details

[Fenrir]

Might just be me but I don’t think the burgundy and gold will be nicer. I prefer the original colour scheme.

[Harvonsgard]

He stated it should not take long for the reprints to get done.

Errr... it's still Lotrék we're talking about. Him and estimates/shedules/appointments are mortal enemies.

[JonathanLeach19]

Hi there

I'm looking to sign up as a Gold Patron but a little confused. When I select the monthly pay option, it says that I will be charged CAD $62 today (for this month) and then again in 2 days time (October 1, 2023). Doesn't year 4 patreon start on October 1, 2023 and run to September 30, 2024 in which case why I am being charged for September 2023??? Seems like a scam by Patreon. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jon

[Drewser]

I'm not a patron but I find this thread interesting. Lotrek decks look awesome. How many decks are patrons still waiting on?

[kevork]

I'm not a patron but I find this thread interesting. Lotrek decks look awesome. How many decks are patrons still waiting on?

Year 1 Patreon Rewards
• Royal Silk Red
• Royal Silk Red - Gold/Silver (Gift deck)
• Patrons

Year 2 Patreon Rewards
• Golden Rule
• Royal Patrons

Year 3 Patreon Rewards
• ???
• ???

[Evilgamer]

If you were planning to join our Patreon in order to have access to exclusive decks and discounts, now is your chance for the new circle starting this month, until August 2024.

year 4 is September to august so the pricing actually makes sense.

Im wondering if Lotrek's wording today is going to get him in trouble later.

Im on month 2 going into 3 of his patreon and I read his words "every patron current or not gets this" reads that I would get the deck being discussed but its a year 1 reward and that would be a hard no logically.

[Strag]

It means (as I read it) if you were a year 1 Patron but are no longer subscribed you would still get that particular reward.

[STLBluesNut]

I'm not a patron but I find this thread interesting. Lotrek decks look awesome. How many decks are patrons still waiting on?

Year 1 Patreon Rewards
• Royal Silk Red
• Royal Silk Red - Gold/Silver (Gift deck)
• Patrons

Year 2 Patreon Rewards
• Golden Rule
• Royal Patrons

Year 3 Patreon Rewards
• ???
• ???

is that really all the decks? there has got to be more that arent listed right? like 20+ more? in 2 previous posts, 2 people have claimed that so far they have shelled out over 3 grand on the patreon. $3k for 7 decks? if that is right and there are less than 30 decks (even that is a stretch at $100 per deck), that patreon is disgusting, probably criminal. adding in that it has been about 2 years to get year 1 rewards, ya'll are some kind of ''special'' to continue supporting that. i dont care who the creator is. for 238 patreons that is nearly 3/4 of a million $ lotrek has raked in with year 1 rewards sent out? i will assume that may be some high tier and not everyone is paying that much so lets estimate half a million dollars. i dont even know how to put into words what i want to say about that without being banned from here.

[CourtCurator]

Every Lotrek patron is a consenting adult who agreed to support him at a level of their choosing in exchange for a certain number of decks. If I remember correctly, it works out to somewhere in the range of $150 per deck. Sure, it’s very expensive when you look at it that way. Speaking for myself, I was excited to support him despite the high “price tag” because it meant that my favorite artist would have the resources to try new things that he otherwise might not be able to bring to market; things that I knew I would love. I can tell you that he came through on that promise in awesome fashion. The technological/artistic innovations that he came up with have not been made entirely public beyond his patrons yet, but it will be glorious. Providing the opportunity to allow him to produce exciting new things, and being able to enjoy them when they become a reality is worth the price of admission for most of us.

There is no need for those that choose not to support him to judge him for being late, when those of us who are actually paying are willing and even happy to wait. On the other hand, those who have been supporting him and are not happy that the timeline promises went unkept have every right to be upset. Most of those people probably are no longer supporting him at this point. But, they will eventually get what they paid for. Yes, the long waits are a dealbreaker for many people, but most (if not all) of us knew what we would likely be in for. Those of us supporting him at this point do so willingly and even enthusiastically despite the delays because for us it is worth it. There is nothing criminal or outrageous about it.

[brownsl]

As an Asylum member (may soon be literally), I get 12 decks per year. Not including any of the Redemption or other decks Lotrek throws in. The first year I was Manic, which is 6 decks. So, I should be receiving 30 Patron decks. So, using just the Patron decks, I have paid about $100 per deck. Including the freebie decks, it will be less than $100 per deck.

At this point, I will continue my membership as I love his decks and I have faith he will get caught up somewhat from his current backlog. I do wish the communication was better from him though. I understand he probably gets lots of messages but I have asked a couple of times about an order I never received but have never gotten a reply.

[Harvonsgard]

is that really all the decks? there has got to be more that arent listed right? like 20+ more? in 2 previous posts, 2 people have claimed that so far they have shelled out over 3 grand on the patreon. $3k for 7 decks? if that is right and there are less than 30 decks (even that is a stretch at $100 per deck), that patreon is disgusting, probably criminal. adding in that it has been about 2 years to get year 1 rewards, ya'll are some kind of ''special'' to continue supporting that. i dont care who the creator is. for 238 patreons that is nearly 3/4 of a million $ lotrek has raked in with year 1 rewards sent out? i will assume that may be some high tier and not everyone is paying that much so lets estimate half a million dollars. i dont even know how to put into words what i want to say about that without being banned from here.

Lel... I love the "special". The highest tiers aren't named manic and asylum for no reason.

[STLBluesNut]

..., it works out to somewhere in the range of $150 per deck. ... Speaking for myself, ...

There is no need for those that choose not to support him to judge him for being late, ... Most of those people ... but most (if not all) ... Those of us supporting him ... There is nothing criminal or outrageous about it.

3000/150=20 there were not 20 decks listed even if you are getting double rewards and it was more than $3000 listed by those 2 folks.

while ''speaking for yourself'' you sure spoke a lot for other people.

while, in your opinion, there may be no need for others to judge, anyone certainly may, based on anything they like, including their opinion which nearly your entire statement was based on. your opinion. my post stands whether you disagree or not. while i understand, and even agree with your post, i am free to make whatever statement or judgement i like regardless of my oath patreon supporter status.

''criminal'' was obviously not used in the sense of actual legality. your term outrageous, i think there could be a strong argument presented on that based on price and the amount and length of delays and promises made and broken. as you said, you were all consenting adults when you made your decision to support, however, so were the customers, patrons if you will, of Enron and other ponzi and pyramid schemes. obviously, lotrek is not lumped with that group, his only issues, imo, being expensive and slow (extremely in both cases) and poor communication from what i read. my point being you can be a consenting adult and the situation can still be ''outrageous''.

in any case, you all do you. pay and wait however much you like. I'll do me and comment my opinion on whatever topic i choose.

[GandalfPC]

I did the math the day I signed up, start of year 2, and its pretty simple not including freebie decks and the benefit of early/exclusive access to decks…

4 copies of one deck, 8 of another, 105 euro x 12 for 12 decks

[STLBluesNut]

approx $112 per deck as the stated deck rewards in only 2 designs. that is not my cup of tea. especially if i dont even know if i will like the design made. i agree with harvon, there is a reason the top 2 tiers are named in association with crazy.

[Harvonsgard]

Well, it's Lotrék so I guess everyone somewhat familiar with his work knows what to expect designwise. And if I'm not totally mistaken you sign up to every Patreon without knowing what the decks you'll get do look like in detail.

[GandalfPC]

Even Lotrek made note of the lunacy of adding Asylum - and I think I can agree that the tiers are well named.

So the choice we make to go that crazy is on us, not Lotrek - he named them with their warning label.

I’m just glad I got my seat in the nut house.

[STLBluesNut]

Well, it's Lotrék so I guess everyone somewhat familiar with his work knows what to expect designwise. And if I'm not totally mistaken you sign up to every Patreon without knowing what the decks you'll get do look like in detail.

that is true, but not at that price. i suppose everyone has their own personal threshold. also this ''I guess everyone somewhat familiar with his work knows what to expect designwise.'' i dont generally care for his designs in the first place. all around, just not a patreon for me. cool for the 238 people that do dig it though.

[GandalfPC]

I think that 238 would be a touch higher if he raised the limits - but I don’t think he looks to produce thousands of copies in the manner he does - batch sizes of the nicer decks need to be low enough to be manageable

[kevork]

I think that 238 would be a touch higher if he raised the limits - but I don’t think he looks to produce thousands of copies in the manner he does - batch sizes of the nicer decks need to be low enough to be manageable

I don't think the tiers are limited at all during September when it's open enrollment, unless you mean something else?


Cost per deck with tier prices increasing this year:
Silver: 24€/month = 2 decks @ 144€ per (one design only)
Golden: 43.50€/month = 4 decks @ 130.5€ per (tier used to be 39.50€ = 118.5€ per deck)
Manic: 63€/month = 6 decks @ 126€ per (used to be 57€ = 114€ per deck)
Asylum: 120€/month = 12 decks @ 120€ per (used to be 108.5€(?) = 108.5€ per deck)

[CourtCurator]

3000/150=20 there were not 20 decks listed even if you are getting double rewards and it was more than $3000 listed by those 2 folks.

while ''speaking for yourself'' you sure spoke a lot for other people.

while, in your opinion, there may be no need for others to judge, anyone certainly may, based on anything they like, including their opinion which nearly your entire statement was based on. your opinion. my post stands whether you disagree or not. while i understand, and even agree with your post, i am free to make whatever statement or judgement i like regardless of my oath patreon supporter status.

''criminal'' was obviously not used in the sense of actual legality. your term outrageous, i think there could be a strong argument presented on that based on price and the amount and length of delays and promises made and broken. as you said, you were all consenting adults when you made your decision to support, however, so were the customers, patrons if you will, of Enron and other ponzi and pyramid schemes. obviously, lotrek is not lumped with that group, his only issues, imo, being expensive and slow (extremely in both cases) and poor communication from what i read. my point being you can be a consenting adult and the situation can still be ''outrageous''.

in any case, you all do you. pay and wait however much you like. I'll do me and comment my opinion on whatever topic i choose.

Okay, you are right, the delays should be considered outrageous. But, everyone in at this point is in with clear eyes. I guess we are “special,” but I for one am happy to be.

[GandalfPC]

I don't think the tiers are limited at all during September when it's open enrollment, unless you mean something else?

might be wrong - but I see one 1 silver and 2 gold available and the rest sold out, still september.

[Jykwei]

I'm posting here for those who're still on the fence with what to do with Lotrek's Patreon. I am in Manic, by the way.

I found the following Patreon updates.

9/7/2022

On the 15th of September arrives the stock for the final reprint of ROYAL SILK. We will be continuously printing through late October so as to have all the rewards for both years ready at the end of that month. There is so much to do but for some reason it brings me joy. Maybe it's because we are finally completing a circle that will allow us to go to the next creative stage.

9/6/2021

ROYAL SILK and PATRONS have priority in printing and we are now getting the files ready for that. The first to be printed will be Royal Silk because Patrons deck needs a few more tweaks. In a few days I will be able to post all the courts and some figure cards in order to get your feedback before we go to the press. Both decks will start shipping in October.

--

This entire thread is in a loop. You could jump back to September of last year and the year before, the discussion then can apply to today, with minor changes.

Lotrek will always eventually run into delays again. What happened to Royal Silk (different circumstances, same outcome) can happen with another deck. As to whether Lorek always delivers - well, he wasn't in a Patreon system before. It seems the Patreon system's promised reward system is suffocating him and it's something he has never dealt with before. I am a Patreon for Stockholm 17, TWI and Encarded, none of them promise a specific number of decks, and Lotrek probably shouldn't going forward. I don't know why he released a handful of decks for sale before completing more of the Patreon commitments, or why he didn't just brand some of those decks and some of the redemption decks as the Patreon committed decks to ease his burden, it's possible he's already spent the Patreon money collected for years 1 and 2, but aside from the overly complicated what-you-get-and-how-many-you-can-buy systems he came up with, month-long-no-tracking-number-delivery, I am actually quite satisfied with his 2023 output.

Actually the nature of patronship is to simply hand over money to support the artist. Rewards are an incentive to expand and maintain patronship, but like Kickstarter, Patreon is not a shop, nothing is guaranteed. In the end, we all spend money / time on stuff that others consider wasteful, just do the research and do what you feel comfortable with, and there is no need to convince others (and yourself) of your decision.

[Bikefanatic]

I always been in the Manic tier. Says $64 a month so I'll just round it up to $70. That times 12 is $840 annually divided by 6-7decks is $120-$140. Not to forget the redemption decks we received plus discounts off of oathplayingcards.com.

With all that said I'll just stay another year to see where this goes.

[steampunk52]

I agree that Patreon isn't a shop and that, in principal, it is to support ones work/art/etc. However, there is an implicit contract and presumption of getting something in return for support. Otherwise, there wouldn't be tiers of support - it would be just "make a donation". I have been a supporter since Year 1. I was relatively new to the card collecting space at the time and frankly wasn't aware of Lotrek's ...ahem ...challenges with a calendar. As many have stated very well, Lotrek is pushing the envelope and trying things few (if any) others are attempting. I also think he is trying very hard to do right by his supporters (free decks, Redemption series, etc). I love and appreciate his work and goal of realizing his vision. This all goes a long way towards tempering my frustration at the long wait.

I am however a bit befuddled by this last update on the issues with the Year 1 Patrons deck. It was completed months ago and waiting for Royal Silk to be finished. I don't understand why he waited until essentially the date he said we should be receiving everything to have a vote on a reprint. I am very much in the minority of patrons who are thinking "I think this looks great. Please let's move on" as the vast majority voted for a reprint. I realize I am in the boat with everyone else and thus riding with majority rules.

However, I cant help but think a 10-day reprint will turn into 6-8 weeks or longer due to misprints, varnish problems, card stock issues, or allowed print capacity. Another misprint issue was raised for Royal Silk, so will that now be reprinted with its 21 plates and all the associated issues in pursuit of perfection? Will that then push back delivery of Year 2 and allow for discoveries of issues with those decks? And then Year 3?

We are embarking on Year 4 and only now collectively seeking yet another reprint of a year 1 deck. In this, my frustration rose quite a bit. I suppose Year 1-3 is a sunk cost at this point and stuff will come when it comes. I am trying to be optimistic, but a bit weary of the football getting pulled away.

[bdawg923]

Another misprint issue was raised for Royal Silk, so will that now be reprinted with its 21 plates and all the associated issues in pursuit of perfection?

My bad

He did ignore the comment though and we already have decks (mostly?) delivered so I doubt that he'll be reprinting more of these

[double_left]

I am however a bit befuddled by this last update on the issues with the Year 1 Patrons deck. It was completed months ago and waiting for Royal Silk to be finished. I don't understand why he waited until essentially the date he said we should be receiving everything to have a vote on a reprint. I am very much in the minority of patrons who are thinking "I think this looks great. Please let's move on" as the vast majority voted for a reprint. I realize I am in the boat with everyone else and thus riding with majority rules.

However, I cant help but think a 10-day reprint will turn into 6-8 weeks or longer due to misprints, varnish problems, card stock issues, or allowed print capacity. Another misprint issue was raised for Royal Silk, so will that now be reprinted with its 21 plates and all the associated issues in pursuit of perfection? Will that then push back delivery of Year 2 and allow for discoveries of issues with those decks? And then Year 3?

Couldn’t of said it better, wtf are we JUST hearing about this now when this deck was “supposedly” already done

Ready to ship was another lie, he waits until end of sept to show us a bowed deck and use more excuses for more delays

“hey honey, lets reprint and delay until Xmas. They’ll never know the difference, patrons are funding our everyday living” -Lotrék Sept ‘23

It’s only about 200k/year right Paul?, sorry I mean Lotrék? Can’t even come here to explain yourself for your continued failed excuses?? The next Encarded right here folks! To ashamed to show his face let along a key stroke

Alot of great content/comments on here but over on Patreon ppl just like to stroke the man’s ego even further instead of telling the man the truth. Politics at its finest

wasted money is why I quit. Now just give me my rewards for the last 3yrs. Not going to be easy but I’m all over this lazy artist. Can’t even respond to your supporters. Not shocking

[GandalfPC]

You can call it politicking, but I wouldn’t.

People have every right to make their own decisions and complain if they wish, but don’t think it grants the right to label anyone as a liar for not telling him your version of the truth.

From my understanding decks are soon to arrive - last chance to complain about it perhaps, so might as well get it all out.

His delays have long been legendary and not wanting to be in his patreon is just ducky, but mucking with the magic is much less ducky by me.

[jasonx73it]

IMG_7529.jpeg (104.59 KiB) Viewed 64544 times

[Oneiros88]

Just wanted to put in my view one this, for what it’s worth.

I’m a Golden tier Patron since the start of year 2.

I adore Lotrek’s decks, they are my absolute treasures.

When the Patreon started, I didn’t feel I could justify the cost “per deck” and the fact there would be a year until the rewards come.
However when Year 2 came along I had to jump on it!

I think people who are getting caught up it the whole ‘price per deck’ math are misunderstanding what Patreon really is.

As some have already said, it isn’t a store. It is a way of supporting a creator.
We’re essentially paying to not only get the rewards, but to contribute towards the development of new decks which form those rewards and even help with the creation of new decks with new techniques.

How much could the whole Royal Silk issue have cost Lotrek to reprint to reach his vision? And even if he hadn’t reprint, to get the circa 21 plates manufactured multiple times would have been a financial blow.
But on top of that, to send each of us, to date, five free Redemption decks? He didn’t need to do that, but it was a gesture of goodwill because of the delays.

I, for one, am happy to continue supporting Lotrek and have faith in receiving my promised rewards, eventually!

Sure, communication could do with improving and more updates about experiments, etc would be appreciated, but at the same time he’s trying to develop these decks and I’m sure that takes up a lot of energy.

I’m not a handler of decks, I’m an admirer of the artwork and collector of these rare treasures, so I’m also happy with contributing to help develop more gorgeous decks filled to the gills with foil!

I don’t feel he should have to come here to defend himself, but does need to improve communications with his Patrons through Patreon.

[kevork]

It's evident that there is a ton of passion towards Lotrek and his works. Look at all this discussion and people sharing their thoughts; even those who haven't posted in a while are showing up to share what's on their mind. This is what a forum is all about!

People are in it not just for the destination, but the journey as well. It's also given me some nice perspective on the purpose of Patreon. We can have our criticisms and voice them, but we are ultimately supporting one of the best (the best in my opinion) visionaries and artists in the playing card realm.

I still consider Arabesque, Damask, Golden Oath and Crypt as Lotrek's "Golden Era" but we have yet to experience his best that he's been cooking up over the last few years, bringing something new to the table each time.

I'm so excited for what's in store.