The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori 001) with TGW

[TheGentlemanWake]

Hi All.

regarding Goldsmith. Kevin and I have decided to keep Cartamundi as the printer for Goldsmith. Although this will incur a significant delay affecting the remainder of the CAP products we felt it best to deliver what so many have already preordered. Our project has still not entered production. And likely will not until early 2024. So to all those who so graciously preordered the decks please be patient with us and thank you so much for your support. You will get your decks as promised and they will be beautiful! It will just take a bit longer.

As a result of this delay, and generally slow development of the project due to less support and preorders than expected—it’s clear the preorder model did not enjoy the same level of support and success the KS model does—we will be adjusting the CAP model. As of now we plan on launching Sanctuary as the second deck in the series instead of villa Beluno. It will be launched next year after the fulfillment of Goldsmith via a new KS account created for CAP. Of course this entails quite a few logistical changes. Including opening up accounts (KS, bank and stripe) and other logistical changes. Kevin is doing a beautiful job with sanctuary. It may be some of his best work yet. The sanctuary campaign will feature a set that mirrors the goldsmith set for continuity as well as a collection of other editions and options more akin to a traditional KS campaign including affordable premium single deck options. To honor our commitment to CAP customers we will also be offering a free special exclusive Sanctuary edition to all Goldsmith customers who back that project once the time comes.

[Evilgamer]

Thanks Omar, what was the driving reason behind changing which deck was next?

[GandalfPC]

It might be that a special Sanctuary deck for Goldsmith buyers gets more into the combined campaign, but it might also keep people out of the Sanctuary campaign (or disappoint those that find later they are missing a deck)

Probably something you already considered, but mentioned in case you had not.

[brownsl]

I am interested to see how this Cartamundi delay shakes out. So many projects are being delayed and they all (most?) are counting on getting their decks printed when Cartamundi reopens in January. Cartamundi can't fulfill all the delayed projects in January. If they are even able to reopen in January. I suspect it will take them months to get caught up. So, some projects delayed for months already due to the relocation will likely be delayed many more months as Cartamundi tries to get caught up.

[Evilgamer]

I am interested to see how this Cartamundi delay shakes out. So many projects are being delayed and they all (most?) are counting on getting their decks printed when Cartamundi reopens in January. Cartamundi can't fulfill all the delayed projects in January. If they are even able to reopen in January. I suspect it will take them months to get caught up. So, some projects delayed for months already due to the relocation will likely be delayed many more months as Cartamundi tries to get caught up.

Personally I think it goes beyond that. Its not only getting caught up, its the quality of the work those first few months as they get people trained and the machines dialed in. (which of course also affects completion rates).

[kevork]

I am interested to see how this Cartamundi delay shakes out. So many projects are being delayed and they all (most?) are counting on getting their decks printed when Cartamundi reopens in January. Cartamundi can't fulfill all the delayed projects in January. If they are even able to reopen in January. I suspect it will take them months to get caught up. So, some projects delayed for months already due to the relocation will likely be delayed many more months as Cartamundi tries to get caught up.

Personally I think it goes beyond that. Its not only getting caught up, its the quality of the work those first few months as they get people trained and the machines dialed in. (which of course also affects completion rates).

I would suspect calibrating the machines and training would occur before reopening for printing projects. That's what these next 4 months are for, along with moving everything.

[Disenchanted_11]

It might be that a special Sanctuary deck for Goldsmith buyers gets more into the combined campaign, but it might also keep people out of the Sanctuary campaign (or disappoint those that find later they are missing a deck)

Probably something you already considered, but mentioned in case you had not.

Goldsmith preorder has been up for months and will be for the next months to come. It was mentioned on that preorder that there will be a free gift for those who preorder all the projects in a year, I guess that gift will be given out on the Sanctuary campaign instead.

I mean what else can TGW do to avoid these future karens?

[GandalfPC]

There are also future collectors, but nothing need be done for anyone.

Of course businesses have been known to consider things when making decisions. Deciding who is a Karen and who is a Customer included.


As for me - not into Goldsmith and not getting it just to get the special deck - and it might well keep me out of the sanctuary campaign - it certainly won’t help.

[Evilgamer]

This is a no win situation, Goldsmith was sold on the premise that a matched set (which can no longer be bought in the original form) would have a reward.

But you clearly have people who will skip entire campaign if they don't get EVERY deck, I just saw it happen with Spirits, campaign dropped a limited number of decks (granted it was 30 in groups of 15..lasted a matter of seconds) and at least one person completely dropped the campaign because they couldn't get one.

I tend to think its better to think of the deck as part of Goldsmith than sanctuary, but apparently thats not going to be a persuasive viewpoint. (and yes...I have bought Goldsmith).

The compromise is to give a deck to the goldsmith backers and make some quantity of them available for sanctuary backers...but then its no longer exclusive and that cheeses people off as well.

[keytopokemon]

Hi All.

regarding Goldsmith. Kevin and I have decided to keep Cartamundi as the printer for Goldsmith. Although this will incur a significant delay affecting the remainder of the CAP products we felt it best to deliver what so many have already preordered. Our project has still not entered production. And likely will not until early 2024. So to all those who so graciously preordered the decks please be patient with us and thank you so much for your support. You will get your decks as promised and they will be beautiful! It will just take a bit longer.

As a result of this delay, and generally slow development of the project due to less support and preorders than expected—it’s clear the preorder model did not enjoy the same level of support and success the KS model does—we will be adjusting the CAP model. As of now we plan on launching Sanctuary as the second deck in the series instead of villa Beluno. It will be launched next year after the fulfillment of Goldsmith via a new KS account created for CAP. Of course this entails quite a few logistical changes. Including opening up accounts (KS, bank and stripe) and other logistical changes. Kevin is doing a beautiful job with sanctuary. It may be some of his best work yet. The sanctuary campaign will feature a set that mirrors the goldsmith set for continuity as well as a collection of other editions and options more akin to a traditional KS campaign including affordable premium single deck options. To honor our commitment to CAP customers we will also be offering a free special exclusive Sanctuary edition to all Goldsmith customers who back that project once the time comes.

Just to help add some opinions (not sure if anyone will agree with me), but I personally don't think it's a problem with the preorder model but more with how the products are packaged. Yes, one can argue that pre-orders create less "hype" within customers as everyone gains access to the decks allowing those who truly love the decks to get their hands on it while resulting in less demand from other parties such as scalpers. However, in the case of Goldsmith the items are packaged in a way that customers who are only looking at the 2 decks would have to spend an additional amount to pay for the coin and carat case (which might not have been something they were particularly interested in).

I was a backer for TGW's successor and went all in, while the black lacquered box itself was amazing and can't be expressed how well made it is. It didn't change the fact that as a playing card collector, I have spent more on the box than what I wanted just to get the prism edition (which now can be purchased from other sellers for maybe 1/5th of the pledge price. While I do understand that the "complete package" will always look more "appealing" from a design standpoint, it can't be denied that Goldsmith looks way better with the case and coin. However, just wished there was always the choice to pick up just the decks if needed.

[Disenchanted_11]

Valid point above though the answer has been reiterated a couple of times already. In hindsight they would've done it differently, but now they're locked in on orders of 1000 cases and coins that looks like most of it will be sitting on their warehouse for quite some time. They might be forced to sell with flexible options at some point, but I think it's not too late to do that as early as now — given the long delay.

Something to think about for sure.

[keytopokemon]

Valid point above though the answer has been reiterated a couple of times already. In hindsight they would've done it differently, but now they're locked in on orders of 1000 cases and coins that looks like most of it will be sitting on their warehouse for quite some time. They might be forced to sell with flexible options at some point, but I think it's not too late to do that as early as now — given the long delay.

Something to think about for sure.

That is understandable, I have been a big fan of Kevin's and Omar's work within the playing card industry and it's disheartening to see a creator who has locked up much of their own capital on goods which may not be sold. This could kind of* result in some delays in the next campaign. With some other well-known companies such as TCC employing similar concept, I wonder how will things move forward within the playing card industry.

[TheGentlemanWake]

This is a no win situation, Goldsmith was sold on the premise that a matched set (which can no longer be bought in the original form) would have a reward.

But you clearly have people who will skip entire campaign if they don't get EVERY deck, I just saw it happen with Spirits, campaign dropped a limited number of decks (granted it was 30 in groups of 15..lasted a matter of seconds) and at least one person completely dropped the campaign because they couldn't get one.

I tend to think its better to think of the deck as part of Goldsmith than sanctuary, but apparently thats not going to be a persuasive viewpoint. (and yes...I have bought Goldsmith).

The compromise is to give a deck to the goldsmith backers and make some quantity of them available for sanctuary backers...but then its no longer exclusive and that cheeses people off as well.

It really is a situation where we can not make every one happy. I’m going to discuss it with Kevin. Maybe what we need to offer as a special gift is a unique version of Goldsmith. We could also open up the item to sales so long as goldsmith pre-orderers get it for free.

[TheGentlemanWake]

Email survey going out soon going to Goldsmith customers with some options on how to handle the continued Cartamundi delays. It's gone on too long.

[Disenchanted_11]

We've waited this long, we aren't bailing out now, are we?

[TheGentlemanWake]

We've waited this long, we aren't bailing out now, are we?

There's new information. Cartamundi has NO timetable on gilding. Which obviously is an issue. The new varnish is more sensitive to heat than b9 so the old gilding practices do not work.

[Disenchanted_11]

Oof, if that's the case, at least we can say we did anticipate these issues.
I will honor what will be the majority of the votes.

[Adamthinks]

I've waited this long, I can wait longer if that's the consensus. However, I have no qualms with you switching to WJPC either. I prefer them for foiled decks anyway. My position would be the same for Beetle Backs as well, btw. If it were me, I'd say let others be the guinea pigs for their new setup and come back once/if they get everything sorted.

[Honeybee]

There's new information. Cartamundi has NO timetable on gilding. Which obviously is an issue. The new varnish is more sensitive to heat than b9 so the old gilding practices do not work.

It seems like Cartamundi are trying to destroy the industry!

[Bradius]

Such is the realities of a Kickstarter project, even with careful and experienced planning. Well, gilding to me is essential for a deck called "Goldsmith". Maybe Cartamundi can brush off their old varnish formula and slap that on some reprinted decks....You would think this would have been tested. However, as I have my own issues, I will not be the one throwing any stones right now.

[TheGentlemanWake]

Email surveys were sent out this morning.

[manu]

Email surveys were sent out this morning.

I preordered The Goldsmith and haven't gotten the email.

[brownsl]

Hmm, I never received any email survey and I preordered 2 of them.

[Evilgamer]

same, no email.

[TheGentlemanWake]

All of you please check your spam folders. The email is coming from Info@thegentlemanwake.com. Also check for my name Omar Chavez Jr

[TheGentlemanWake]

Also please double check you are checking the email associated with your order.

[kevork]

Checked my spam folder and all my mail folders. No email was received.

[TheGentlemanWake]

I will investigate. If you ordered Goldsmith and DID NOT receive the survey please email me at info@thegentlemanwake.com from the email associated with your order. And I will personally send it to you! SO sorry about this.

[zuccha]

I have received the email.
I like cartamundi paper quality, WJPC is not bad, but I was willing to pay almost $100 for 2 decks of playing cards +α, partly because it was B9 Slimline paper, which is my most favorite stock.

Personally, I'd rather wait, but not knowing when it will happen can be a burden on Omar and I'm willing to go with the outcome you choose. (I appreciate Kickstarter and other preorder that survey buyers on these matters, but I'm hoping for an ending that the producers think is a good one.)

[TheGentlemanWake]

I have received the email.
I like cartamundi paper quality, WJPC is not bad, but I was willing to pay almost $100 for 2 decks of playing cards +α, partly because it was B9 Slimline paper, which is my most favorite stock.

Personally, I'd rather wait, but not knowing when it will happen can be a burden on Omar and I'm willing to go with the outcome you choose. (I appreciate Kickstarter and other preorder that survey buyers on these matters, but I'm hoping for an ending that the producers think is a good one.)

Thank you for participating Zuccha. I will say that as of now the Cartamundi decks are NO LONGER b9 slimline. Both the varnish (b9) and the paper (slimline) are NO longer as they were. Its an entire new board and varnish/finish.