+1vasta41 wrote:It's refreshing to see someone talented actually using KS. For a while I thought it was a place for failed graphic arts students went to die.
It's Funny 'cause it's true! 
That makes no sense to me. Just because most buy at least two, why should a single deck be that much more expensive? Doesn't matter whether it's 1 compared to 2, or 6 compared to 4. A quantity discount is common, of course, but this is beyond anything I've ever seen.badpete69 wrote:Magic.....
I still think this deck falls close enough to most other kickstarter decks. Most collector I knoe usually buy at least two decks. And like I said that makes it $13.65 a deck which to me is totally reasonable for a nice decl from a proven deck designer...I really dont see that much inflation but more tight budgets...In thend no one is forced to buy
WOW, that's extreme.dazzleguts wrote:Honestly, I can, and do, have cards shipped from The Netherlands for cheaper than I can get them from just over the border on so many of these kickstarter campaigns
Really? It doesn't surprise me one bitJPMiddleton wrote:WOW, that's extreme.dazzleguts wrote:Honestly, I can, and do, have cards shipped from The Netherlands for cheaper than I can get them from just over the border on so many of these kickstarter campaigns
Actually - i'm not as surprised as I was. I misread it, I thought the comment was meaning TWO journeys for one order, EG - from a KS project to the Netherlands and then to Canada.MagikFingerz wrote:Really? It doesn't surprise me one bitJPMiddleton wrote:WOW, that's extreme.dazzleguts wrote:Honestly, I can, and do, have cards shipped from The Netherlands for cheaper than I can get them from just over the border on so many of these kickstarter campaigns
leemckenzie wrote:Hey Guys,
Thanks for the wonderful comments and for sharing your frustrations.
I understand exactly where you're coming from, believe me. I'm not just a designer, I've been a card collector and magician for a long time and I agree that having to get your decks from overseas and pay for shipping is one of the most irritating things sometimes.
Until Kickstarter supports a global shipping feature that helps you categorise each backer by their country, tax and import rules, fees, and apply the suitable shipping to relative weight of a mass of unknown add on, we're stuck trying to work with a somewhat primitive, imperfect system. It's not ideal for backers, or creators, but it's all we have to work with right now. If it wasn't for Kickstarter tho, we wouldn't have access to a larger selection of cool new decks an other great project by other talented artists. Which I'm sure we're all grateful for.
There's just not one solution yet to covering everyone, from everywhere on the globe, for whatever they pledge, plus a whole mass of add-ons that may get mixed into the bag, all using just one, single, reward tier. Then you'd have to consider each countries import taxies, other laws and fees too. To be able to have one perfect solution to cover all of that would be amazing. So far Kickstarter doesn't do it. A solution may exist, but it seems like it would be incredibly complex to execute.
Kickstarter is not a store. These are 'rewards'. They are 'thank yous' for contributing to help someone with their idea. Not products in a store you pick of the shelf. It's a different mentality.
If the cost of this deck was the same as what our favorite online stores charge, I'd be running the risk of creating a 30 day Kickstarter project to go into debt.
Kickstarter is there to give a helping hand creators to share their ideas. It's not ideal, but it's a fantastic way to help people get 'kickstarted' to using their passions to contributing to the world in their own way. It's not entirely fair to view it as a store and compare it to our regular online shopping experiences and price comparison mentality.
Just some thoughts.
Plus, this is a limited run uniques to Kickstarter backers. Not tons of resellers around the world.
Hope that helps!
Thanks for sharing your comments and frustrations. Thanks you so much for those of you who've already backed, and to all of you who appreciate what lengths I've gone to making this.
Best wishes
Well, that made it easier for me. I certainly won't back a kickstarter deck project whose creator has this mentality.leemckenzie wrote: Kickstarter is not a store. These are 'rewards'. They are 'thank yous' for contributing to help someone with their idea. Not products in a store you pick of the shelf. It's a different mentality.
But he's right... what about all the KS that don't give you anything? From "Pay me to make videos about feminism and video games" (and lots of similar KS's) to "Help us fund a movie of an old TV show you liked" and so on, Kickstarter is about funding other peoples' work. They might give you something in return for your donation in order to encourage donations, or they might not. Sometimes the list of add-ons makes a pledge become an insanely good deal monetarily (the Reaper minis KS and Fate Core KS being good examples of this), sometimes the reward is not fully equitable to the pledge amount.MagikFingerz wrote:Well, that made it easier for me. I certainly won't back a kickstarter deck project whose creator has this mentality.leemckenzie wrote: Kickstarter is not a store. These are 'rewards'. They are 'thank yous' for contributing to help someone with their idea. Not products in a store you pick of the shelf. It's a different mentality.
I am well aware that they exist, but this one isn't (and shouldn't be) one of them.samurai007 wrote: But he's right... what about all the KS that don't give you anything? From "Pay me to make videos about feminism and video games" (and lots of similar KS's) to "Help us fund a movie of an old TV show you liked" and so on, Kickstarter is about funding other peoples' work. They might give you something in return for your donation in order to encourage donations, or they might not.
Now, I personally am very much opposed to the "give us money so we can make what we want and you get nothing for it" kind of KS's, and I won't pledge for them, but many people do, and they are legal.
Agreed, my wife and I funded a movie once and all we got was an 18x24 poster. Was the poster's value equal to what we pledged? Not in the slightest. I think we as card collectors have been "lucky" and "spoiled" by many of the designers, but that's not typically how kickstarter works. If you pledge towards a new hover bike, don't expect to get a hover bike. You might get a sticker, a phone call from the creator or a Tshirt.Kickstarter is not a store. These are 'rewards'. They are 'thank yous' for contributing to help someone with their idea. Not products in a store you pick of the shelf. It's a different mentality.
Totally agree. Why are we arguing about this? Unless, you do want the deck, but are angry about the price being high.* As far as I am concerned ALL kickstarter decks are collector's items. Their limited run and availability make them more sought after than most. The market on collector's items has no ceiling, if you want it, you pay what is asked for. I collect Star Wars figures, believe me I know. The same 3 3/4 figure, made from the same plastic can sell between $3 and thousands of dollars. Is that piece of plastic WORTH thousands? No way. But if you want it, you pay the asking price.the creator can set the pledge levels at whatever they please and it's up to the public to back them or not. You want the deck, back it. You don't like the pledge levels don't back it.
Yea the only risk I see with playing cards is the USPCC screwing up your order a few times (a la Uuis bohemia) and in the time it takes them to correct, shipping costs go up. Seems like a pretty out there risk though as the post office typically announces price increases months and months ahead of time... I guess the only other risk might be if you have to go through a fulfillment company or some sort of agency due to being out of a kickstarter-supported country (such as the Asylum KS). I typically come with the "KS is not a store" argument, but you really do have a point that if the creator does their homework and gets a few samples, there is very little unknown for most playing card KS.MagikFingerz wrote:I see what you're saying, Ortho, and I do somewhat agree. But do you really think all kickstarter projects should be viewed like that? Like volantangel pointed out, there really is no risk with this type of projects.
Funding a movie is very different from funding something as simple, tangible and easily manufactured as a deck of cards.
I was curious so I checked my records. In shipping over 2,200 orders in the last 18 months or so, exactly 33% of my buyers are international. Everyone is different but so far that has been my trend.deleter wrote:edit: my other thought on int'l shipping is, while I've never seen the numbers, I assume that most KS orders are within the US.
All I'm asking is that KS campaigners respect the fact that destination shipping costs will vary, as much as we try to respect the fact that shipping to us at international destinations is going to cost them more. I realize that shipping on a destination by destination basis is very difficult, perhaps impossible, with the large numbers of pledges, especially since it would slow the whole process down and there are already long waits, but a simple breakdown like the one samurai007 has suggested would be enough for me. The 8-bit deck did it with both of their campaigns, and there have been others as well, so it is not unprecedented.samurai007 wrote: That said, Lee, here's an idea: You might consider having 3 or 4 amounts for shipping instead of just 2 to help cover common cases. For instance (numbers made up), you could say "US backers add nothing, Canadian and UK backers add 3 pounds, and other countries add 6 pounds." Canada is cheaper than some further countries, and as for the UK, you will have a large number of decks shipped to you (all remaining decks not going to backers) and you could then mail them to fellow UK backers yourself at local postage rates. That would lessen the sting for at least some folks.
I guess in some ways this is the 'problem with Kickstarter' - it was (from my understanding) conceived for the more art-type projects, and not projects which are relatively simpler to produce the final product. (Not that there isn't art in playing cards, at least in the good ones like LeesMagikFingerz wrote:I see what you're saying, Ortho, and I do somewhat agree. But do you really think all kickstarter projects should be viewed like that? Like volantangel pointed out, there really is no risk with this type of projects.
Funding a movie is very different from funding something as simple, tangible and easily manufactured as a deck of cards.
). At the end of the day, the decks aren't being handmade - with the right size pile of cash, USPCC will do a run of almost whatever (legal) design you want.I guess implementing this would introduce the risk of a skewed US/International mix making the decks less viable. Generally I think in many ways we should only pay what it costs to get the deck to us - which is why we dislike feeling as if there is a profit margin in postage.deleter wrote: edit: my other thought on int'l shipping is, while I've never seen the numbers, I assume that most KS orders are within the US. In this respect a KS creator could subsidize the international shipments by raising the deck price a few bucks. I might get angry replies from other US backers, but personally I would have no problem paying a few more bucks to allow int'l people to get in on the fun as it were.
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