Devotion - Thirdway Industries

[hsbc]

Sorta like Crypt, the faces of the cards are meant to be a "secret"

[laitostarr777]

Sorta like Crypt, the faces of the cards are meant to be a "secret" -- I hope my (bad) fan picture is okay

*GASP* showing the indices of it already break the vow, you must be punished [MURRAY]

[Thirdway Industries]

Nooo

Please do not show the card fronts, even the details It's possible to guess how the courts are from the indexes!

Thank you!

[Thirdway Industries]

Also the 14th pic from the top is somehow showing something

[Harvonsgard]

Maybe a new art style would be recommended then. What about blowing our minds with a fresh design instead of marketing tactics?

[shunterino]

@hsbc are the courts markedly different in style to every other TWI deck? He has a very distinct approach to courts that is virtually identical in every deck of his I've seen so it would be quite a shift in gears if these don't have the booba/thick lines approach of the others.

[KingfisherZero]

I think it depends on what you mean by "markedly." Gio decks have a likeness to each other for sure, and it's usually pretty easy to pick out his artwork. I'd say there's some variation - the thick line art style of Egoism vs the thinner more intricate style of Sins or Apocalisse vs the bolder more modern block color style of Order and Galaxia.

But all of them share some common threads for sure.

So if you consider all of the above to be "identical" styles, then I don't think Devotion is going to feel new. I would say...Devotion is even something different from the three types I described above. But it is still quite recognizable as a Giovanni designed deck at its core. You might describe that as a new style, or you might describe it as an iteration on a familiar one.

Best I can do to describe my feelings objectively without showing the cards!

[shunterino]

So the usual cleavage fetish. Got it.

[hsbc]

@hsbc are the courts markedly different in style to every other TWI deck?

No, it's pretty standard Gio art, which I like a lot I was at least hoping just to show people how the indices look in use but oh well I'll at least say the face cards have a white border, as opposed to the backs

[Adamthinks]

Maybe a new art style would be recommended then. What about blowing our minds with a fresh design instead of marketing tactics?

As this is a Patreon annual reward deck, there really isn't any marketing involved. A little mystery is fun sometimes.

[Sir Toddalot]

I really liked this deck! It does have a slightly different feel to me, but definitely still Gio’s style. Which I love, so it isn’t a problem to me! The red one looks really great with the red and black.

[Bradius]

One of my red devotion decks had it's wrapper vanish, so I took a peek inside. I noticed that the seal was set up with perforations lined up perfectly. It is the little things that add up to something produced well. This is first deck produced by Legends lately that I actually like. I have been really dissatisfied with their decks lately. However, the foil on this deck is actually solid and doesn't look cheap to me. The black gilding and handling out of the box really is good. Honestly, a great deck IMHO. Not cheap though, but it is a solidly produced deck.

[kevork]

One of my red devotion decks had it's wrapper vanish, so I took a peek inside. I noticed that the seal was set up with perforations lined up perfectly. It is the little things that add up to something produced well. This is first deck produced by Legends lately that I actually like. I have been really dissatisfied with their decks lately. However, the foil on this deck is actually solid and doesn't look cheap to me. The black gilding and handling out of the box really is good. Honestly, a great deck IMHO. Not cheap though, but it is a solidly produced deck.

I love when the seals have those perforations! It really is the little things. Even with an x-acto knife, I'm not always able to get that perfect curvature.

[Harvonsgard]

As this is a Patreon annual reward deck, there really isn't any marketing involved. A little mystery is fun sometimes.

And the Patreon is for free? (Rhetorical question)
Of course there is marketing involved when it is about to sell stuff to someone.

[Sir Toddalot]

And the Patreon is for free? (Rhetorical question)
Of course there is marketing involved when it is about to sell stuff to someone.

I honestly think it’s more about the experience. Gio does all kinds of cool thing on his patreon to make new decks more interactive. And yes, that could be considered marketing, but the way you said it made it sound like you thought it was some devious scheme by Gio. I think he just wants to provide patreons with good value for their money, and make being a patreon to him an enjoyable experience. He’s also not opening up any new tiers, so new people interested can’t even subscribe on patreon if they want. The only way to get this deck now is on the secondary market, so building hype around it isn’t even directly profiting him.

[Adamthinks]

As this is a Patreon annual reward deck, there really isn't any marketing involved. A little mystery is fun sometimes.

And the Patreon is for free? (Rhetorical question)
Of course there is marketing involved when it is about to sell stuff to someone.

It's an annual reward for having been a patron for the entire year. So it's already paid for. If the "marketing" comes well after the purchase, it's not actually marketing. He's just trying to create a fun experience for the people that were already backing it. There's no need to be so cynical about it.

[laitostarr777]

I think it depends on what you mean by "markedly." Gio decks have a likeness to each other for sure, and it's usually pretty easy to pick out his artwork. I'd say there's some variation - the thick line art style of Egoism vs the thinner more intricate style of Sins or Apocalisse vs the bolder more modern block color style of Order and Galaxia.

Seriously, TWI needs an official compendium to showcase all of the story based series, view them all in one place

[Harvonsgard]

The only way to get this deck now is on the secondary market, so building hype around it isn’t even profiting him at all.

It's an annual reward for having been a patron for the entire year. So it's already paid for. If the "marketing" comes well after the purchase, it's not actually marketing. He's just trying to create a fun experience for the people that were already backing it. There's no need to be so cynical about it.

1) There is no need to tell people what to do with their decks.
2) You both seem to know little about public relations, promotion, marketing or however you wanna call it.
I'd recommend some Edward L. Bernays to change that.
I agree btw., as long as it's just about cards and pictures thereof, it's a fun experience to see how obidient people are.

[Adamthinks]

So you're just gonna double down on the cynicism then. Got it.

[Bradius]

I agree that Harvonsgard does have a point. Gio is definitely marketing his product to a specific group and does work to create a level of rarity to his productions. That is not uncommon in playing cards. The way Gio goes about it is different in some ways from others. That said, he definitely has a brand in this space and appeals to a group of collectors and not others. It seems to work for him and he has a very loyal base that he works hard to keep on board. To each his own. It is marketing, but I much prefer it to some of the hype of say a fontaine deck. I think it really comes down to liking or not liking what Gio puts out.

[Harvonsgard]

Perfectly put Bradius. Marketing is not some good or bad voodoo; it's just a tool. As long as a consumer is aware of what consciously and subconciously is going on, all's fine.
It's just a slight tad concerning when fans jump to defend something, which at all doesn't even has to be defended in the first place.
Has nothing to do with cynicism but realism in my book, but I'm perfectly fine with people agreeing to disagree on that with me.
I like Gio's work a lot. Scene would be more boring without him for sure. I'm just bored of his work artwise since Order. While his lore and themes are always top notch, I just would love Gio to push himself artwise as well, that's all .

[brownsl]

Definitely agree that it would nice to see Gio deviate from his standard art style. I would love to see something that wows me as completely different.

[Sir Toddalot]

I’ll agree that it is marketing, but like Bradius said, I much prefer Giovanni’s brand of marketing over others. I guess I mainly just took objective to the way Harvonsgard phrased his posts, came across as confrontational and as if he thought gio was doing something bad by marketing this way. And felt like he was trying to educate us poor schmucks who don’t know how the world really works. Obviously that required some assumptions on my part, and I apologize if that wasn’t what was meant. Not a good idea to read stuff into internet posts. I like Gios work, he could not market the decks at all and just put them up for sale on his website with no story or interaction and I’d still get them. Because I like his style. But I do appreciate the extra work he goes to to make buying his decks more enjoyable for his customers. I approve of that type of marketing.

[Harvonsgard]

I guess I mainly just took objective to the way Harvonsgard phrased his posts, came across as confrontational and as if he thought gio was doing something bad by marketing this way.

I'm definitely guilty of being confrontational - all in good sports though.

[laitostarr777]

I might not helping with this discussion, but I like to say this:
DEVOTION (gold for Patrons, red for public during Black Friday) offers some kind of redemption for those who missed THAT deck by Lotrek - it has the same “gimmick” of, do not reveal the design to the public. But for DEVOTION, at least you can show the back and box

[Bradius]

I personally don't see the whole "keep it secret" thing with this deck. I can understand it though with Lotrek's Crypt deck.

[rousselle]

Gio had said when he started talking with the Patreon patrons about Devotion that he wanted to try something fun, and it was fun. The whole "choose your faction" thing. The unexpected novelette that he produced for us. Revealing the backs but not the faces until we actually opened the decks ourselves (or didn't as the case may be for some of you "tuckists" out there, which is also a kind of sect, now that I think about it.) Sure, he could have simply produced another excellent deck with all the bells and whistles and his well-established approach to story and theme (which is totally part of the experience), but he wanted to add a little extra spice, and I love that. The total experience is greater than the sum of its parts.

I haven't read the novelette yet, but I will do so before reading his post on the subject to the Patreon group. Mmmm. Anticipation....

That said, yes, it's certainly part of "marketing", just like *all* packaging is part of marketing. Gio is not just selling an excellent steak; he is also selling the sizzle. The experience.

Jackson is likewise selling an experience. So are Lorenzo, Jocu, and all the other subscriber-based producers, as well as the other brands like Uusi and Passione and Guru and Seasons who maybe don't produce as frequently but nonetheless provide an experience that involves more than just a deck of cards and a tuck case. Hell, Will Roya provides an experience beyond just the decks he selects for his Pip Box club (the extra singles his subscribers can use to build Frankendecks as well as the occasional tchotchke.) Even Lotrek sells an experience, albeit one that involves waiting, waiting, waiting, and then >boom<, more waiting. (Oh yeah, and then he delivers a deck that is more-often-than-not simply amazing.)

Successfully building a brand ultimately involves providing some kind of experience. I love the way Gio keeps building on the experience he provides, and I'm here for all of it.

I'll be reading that novelette over the weekend, and I'll be opening at least one Devotion deck tonight. Should I start with the gold or the red? Hmmmm....

[Bradius]

The novelette isn't that long. It will be a fairly quick read actually. In my case, I had to re-read parts of it to pick up on things. Even so, you do not need to block off a lot of time. Thankfully it wasn't one of Lorenzo's impossible puzzles that I can only admire after the fact how ANYBODY could possibly figure it out.

One interesting side effect of this Devotion project is Gio learning a little more about his Patrons and us learning a little more about each other and Gio. It was fun.

[kevork]

I have to say this is one of my favorite works of his after seeing the artwork. Right up there with Monolith.

It's certainly not comparable to Crypt, but I never intended to compare the two. It's Gio trying to keep things fresh and exciting, which in and of itself is impressive considering how many deck series he's come out with over the years and continues to maintain a close following.

While I'm not on his Patreon and do not get the intimate experience others did with this deck, I still hold a high level of admiration as an outside observer.

[laitostarr777]

The novelette isn't that long. It will be a fairly quick read actually. In my case, I had to re-read parts of it to pick up on things. Even so, you do not need to block off a lot of time. Thankfully it wasn't one of Lorenzo's impossible puzzles that I can only admire after the fact how ANYBODY could possibly figure it out.

One interesting side effect of this Devotion project is Gio learning a little more about his Patrons and us learning a little more about each other and Gio. It was fun.

Should Gio do puzzles too? I am sure it will be fun and the thrme might up to his menu