The Successor by TGW/Kevin Cantrell

[TheGentlemanWake]

Well campaign is in the books. Thanks to all who participated and supported. My gratitude abounds.

[kevork]

Well campaign is in the books. Thanks to all who participated and supported. My gratitude abounds.

Congratulations, Omar!!

[PrincessTrouble]

I prefer the lighter paper, black foil. My second choice would be lighter paper, gold foil.

[TheGentlemanWake]

So after all is said an done, we had 300 Sarcophagi claimed. I may reduce the total number to 350 instead of 400. As far as the remaining 50 Prism decks, I'm contemplating giving Sarcophagi tiers the opportunity to purchase them at $125.

[Bikefanatic]

Don't be surprised if people buy plenty of those green and white things on Backerkit. More funding for you to make, it's no secret Successor is a success.

[balrog326]

I love that idea because it makes the sarcophagus even more rare and I would totally be down to own a 2nd prism. sign me up

[Harvonsgard]

Honestly, I could imagine Omar being responsible for a part of the final drops. I didn't think of the pledge only one dollar and then add any version (except for Prism) you like via Backerkit prior to Omar making that suggestion.
So yah, I'd say there will be quite a good run on the Monarch and Dynastinæ decks on Backerkit.

Congratulations to your most funded campaign Omar.

[Bradius]

Congrats on a great campaign. I am looking forward to getting my rewards.

[laitostarr777]

Yippee, it is backed!
* can hear my bank account screams in pain *

[TheGentlemanWake]

Honestly, I could imagine Omar being responsible for a part of the final drops. I didn't think of the pledge only one dollar and then add any version (except for Prism) you like via Backerkit prior to Omar making that suggestion.
So yah, I'd say there will be quite a good run on the Monarch and Dynastinæ decks on Backerkit.

Congratulations to your most funded campaign Omar.

You can imagine me being responsible?

[GandalfPC]

Well, while I was rooting for you as the numbers passed my guess by, it is good to know my time machine was properly calibrated

GandalfPC - 254k

[Harvonsgard]

You can imagine me being responsible?

I don't wanna say yes because you seem to take that different than I would intend it but it's kind of a duh to me, because as the creator of the campaign you're of course responsible. Sincerely not meant in a personal way - although I fear you'll take it as that.
As mentioned, I didn't thought of the trick you've suggested but it was mainly meant as a joke and to brighten your mood, that maybe due to people aiming for certain decks your backerkit game might go stronger than expected.

In the end; no clue. I don't have access to all data and I can only speak for myself and am not really interested to guess what a group of almost 1,000 folks thinks.
My personal reasons to not back in the end were - and keep in mind this is my subjective thing, not meant to knock any descisions being made:
• the paywall thing
• exclusiveness/limits
• complaining about the drops despite being successful (yes, that's a turn off for me and yes, I can see this is hundred percent subjective and even unfair towards a passionate creator - it's still how I'm wired)
Those three were just minor irritating things to me personally. The main reason was the shipping though
And again, that being said while being situated in Germany! It's utterly unfair to have a portion of backers subsidising the free shipping for and backers. Especially with shipping rates going up. I can't support that. You can carry your own weight in my book. If you're able to drop hundreds in cards, you can pay for your shipping, too imho.
And yes, I can see why these descisions were made from a creator's perspective. I'm aware that almost everything has a trade off and there is no need to justify these descisions or to further discuss them as it was already enough in the past. Just leaving this summary because you've asked.

I'm sincerely looking forward to the Beetlebacks. Maybe four is a charm for you to get into my wallet - not saying it's a deep one, due to other hobbies .

[laitostarr777]

Well, while I was rooting for you as the numbers passed my guess by, it is good to know my time machine was properly calibrated

GandalfPC - 254k

Congratulations, you won the prediction XD

[sms69x]

As far as the remaining 50 Prism decks, I'm contemplating giving Sarcophagi tiers the opportunity to purchase them at $125.

Could you elaborate on the price? I'm genuinely intrigued by the price tag, it seems a bit too high, but maybe the sleeve adds a ton of extra money, idk!

[Adamthinks]

[

I’m trying to escape the Kickstarter model. Having capital to do things more proactively. I’m trying to solidify this as a career. It will be a bit longer it seems.

I was a little confused as to why you were consternating so much with such a high total. I get it now, there was a lot more on the line in this campaign for you than just one campaign. Sorry you didn't reach the goal you had in mind. I'm sure you'll get there soon.

[TheGentlemanWake]

[

I’m trying to escape the Kickstarter model. Having capital to do things more proactively. I’m trying to solidify this as a career. It will be a bit longer it seems.

I was a little confused as to why you were consternating so much with such a high total. I get it now, there was a lot more on the line in this campaign for you than just one campaign. Sorry you didn't reach the goal you had in mind. I'm sure you'll get there soon.

Seeing your comment and Harvonsgard regarding my "complaining about the drops despite being successful" I can see how it seems as if I'm ungrateful. I'm not. But whatever ideas most people have about how much profit a $249k campaign of this magnitude has (especially after post-campaign dropped pledges which can be as much as 10% or more of the total funding) I can assure you that they are wrong. The loss in pledges literally means the world of difference between being able to concentrate on this as a business and having to continue to devote most of my energy and resources to other means of income. I took a risk. I believed this campaign would create that opportunity for me. So far it has not. Over time, as more people learn of the successor and the extra stock of decks we are printing sell perhaps it will. But not for now.

[TheGentlemanWake]

As far as the remaining 50 Prism decks, I'm contemplating giving Sarcophagi tiers the opportunity to purchase them at $125.

Could you elaborate on the price? I'm genuinely intrigued by the price tag, it seems a bit too high, but maybe the sleeve adds a ton of extra money, idk!

Not that I am obligated to explain my pricing, because I'm not...

If the white decks cost $75 and there are 1500 of them
what should the purple deck cost that there are only 50?

[Adamthinks]

Seeing your comment and Harvonsgard regarding my "complaining about the drops despite being successful" I can see how it seems as if I'm ungrateful. I'm not. But whatever ideas most people have about how much profit a $249k campaign of this magnitude has (especially after post-campaign dropped pledges which can be as much as 10% or more of the total funding) I can assure you that they are wrong. The loss in pledges literally means the world of difference between being able to concentrate on this as a business and having to continue to devote most of my energy and resources to other means of income. I took a risk. I believed this campaign would create that opportunity for me. So far it has not. Over time, as more people learn of the successor and the extra stock of decks we are printing sell perhaps it will. But not for now.

I can't speak for Harvonsgard, but I wasn't suggesting you were complaining or ungrateful. Consternating just means you were anxious about it. Which I understand, especially given the now added context. You ran a great campaign and I'm certain you'll reach the goal you have in mind.

[Harvonsgard]

I never thought you were ungrateful, too btw. I just don't like people complaining or being anxious too much. Again just a personal thing, nothing to worry about, I can look past that easily.

What rubs me the wrong way, is making shitty explanations though. You're right, you are obligated to nothing and in this case it's better to be quit than giving that statement above.

I know, some consider this a weird marxist idea but value is solely determined through production costs (aka all cost from making the product until arriving at the consumers door).
The Prism and the Monarch are different by what? Holo gilding is not that much more expensive than gold gilding. The sleeve and metal guard are basically the same. They are variations of each others. No big difference production cost wise. And for the record there're 350 Prism and not 50. They're just 50 available (after you reduced it - great trick to justify a higher price tag, eh? ), don't AoP or TXI marketing speech us.
As someone working in the print industry and having calculated print jobs it baffles for how stupid some think the consumers are - or of course another explanation; Cartamundi/Studio Impression gave you shitty quotes because they think you don't know what is going on printwise (which I think is unlikely).

Of course you're free to base your pricing on fugase/hype but then just tell us it's the price tag period; instead of pulling a wannabe logical explanation outta your ass.

[sms69x]

what should the purple deck cost that there are only 50?

Guess there's a typo on your answer and you meant 500 instead of 50, but still there will be more like 700 to 800 than 500.
EDIT: Oh I see, there are 50 reminding decks... ok!

Not that I am obligated to explain my pricing, because I'm not...

Fair enough, I just tried to understand if technically or production wise there was something that justified the "Lotrek" pricing, but as I stated before you are totally free to price your decks at what ever price you think is appropriate.

[TheGentlemanWake]

You are right. I officially done discussing prices. They are what I say they are. Honestly I've REALLY been TOO forthcoming and SHARED WAY too much on this forum. I can see why some other creators invariably end up taking a more silent approach. That may be the case moving forward for me as well.

[hsbc]

Your insights are really appreciated here, I love seeing all the behind the scenes info!

[TheGentlemanWake]

As someone working in the print industry and having calculated print jobs it baffles for how stupid some think the consumers are - or of course another explanation; Cartamundi/Studio Impression gave you shitty quotes because they think you don't know what is going on printwise (which I think is unlikely).

Your experience in the printing industry may help you understand production costs, but let me ask you... how much experience do you have in cultivating an audience? What about building email lists and social media following? What about incorporating businesses, cultivating experience and betterment through ongoing eduction? Running a websore? Working with and paying an accountant? Writing, Shooting, Producing and editing promotional videos? Finding artists? Negotiating contracts? Art directing designers? Finding manufacturers and vendors? Finding capital to make prototypes? Building KS campaigns? Answering emails? Customer Service? Creating relationships with influencers and collaborators? Managing partners? Running a campaign? Because SOMEHOW some people think that production costs are the only aspect that matter when prices are being set. What I find baffling is how some people dismiss the tremendous amount of work involved and then infer that the only thing that dictates prices is production costs.

[sms69x]

I can see why some other creators invariably end up taking a more silent approach. That may be the case moving forward for me as well.

That's unfortunate. As a member of the community and also with your now insight on the business I would very much appreciate that you could continue to provide valuable information regarding this hobby, like montezi generally does with all of his projects, or even Jackson on his live streams.

[Adamthinks]

These interactions are really starting to come across as combative from multiple sides. And I don't think that's helpful for anyone.

[Sir Toddalot]

I know, some consider this a weird marxist idea but value is solely determined through production costs (aka all cost from making the product until arriving at the consumers door).
Of course you're free to base your pricing on fugase/hype but then just tell us it's the price tag period; instead of pulling a wannabe logical explanation outta your ass.

Have you ever ran a business? I’m just curious because I do, and comments like this annoy me. I own a construction/carpentry business, which I’m sure is slightly different than producing playing cards, but if I only charged people my production costs I’d go out of business. The entire point of having a business is to make a profit. Value isn’t just determined by costs, its determined by supply and demand. The more people want something, the more its worth, and vice-versa. On some jobs I make a lot of money, and on some jobs I lose money. If it wasn't for the jobs where I charged more, the jobs I miscalculated on would sink me. I certainly don’t blame TGW for charging higher than production cost on this deck, the extra helps cover all the stuff that isn’t production costs, and can help buffer the things he might lose money on.

[balrog326]

I hesitated to comment before regarding the pricing as I didn't want to speak for Omar but personally I think $125 for the prism is more then fair. The Monarch White cost $75 the Rex will be priced higher then that since it's more rare at 777 made and the Prism with only 350 made will be higher then the Rex version so $125 is more then fair. Also while sold out on TGW site the TOTT prism would of sold for $250 if any where left and only 200 made so simple math : Successor prism almost twice as many made so half the price since half the rarity Put it this way...once these come out do you think you will find this Prism for less then 125 anywhere?? Im guessing they will be selling for 200-250 on secondary market, not that I'm letting mine go

[Bikefanatic]

Whatever price a person sells somethings, that's their price. Either you buy it or not. As a collector, I never wanted to get into the analytics of how much something costs due to quality, quantity, etc. As long as I get what I paid for, I'm good. It's true that people with little to no experience in business has the most to say.

[Harvonsgard]

These interactions are really starting to come across as combative from multiple sides. And I don't think that's helpful for anyone.

Why can't we take into account that the other side, we only know through text, is coming from best faith?
People are different. People express themselves different. I don't need to and never will apologize for how I express myself in a to me foreign language.
I'm just here to have fun and if a product interests me, but has question marks on it (again for me), to remove them and to make the best possible purchase descision for myself.

I don't ask people to change their ways but if they want into my wallet, my rules apply, simple as that.
I know ignorance is bliss for some and all power to them but again, I'm not one of those consumers and don't apologize for questioning business approaches.

@Omar and @Sir Toddalot, I clarified that with production costs I mean all(!) costs involved to bring the product to the customer. This includes marketing (which includes social media, email list...), shipping, designing and of course putting a well deserved and earned margin on top... apologies that I tend to not spell out very basic stuff because:
A) I think I'm talking with grown-ups that are on the same level of intelligence.
and
B) for the sake of keeping this forum a reading pleasure in between 500 word quotes that get further quoted and quoted...
So I don't get what there is to be annoyed about? Choice of words maybe?

@Omar specifically, What part of, I work in the print industry and do project management and calculations is so hard to understand? Sorry that we don't make cards but if you ever need a book, hit me up for a quote .
When you know everything that matters for a campaign and I know it, then do you really expect me to spell everything out? Seems like a strange approach to communication but okay, people are different.
I asked you a simple question what makes the Prism so different to the Monarch - from a technical point of view?
You know what would be a grown-up response?
"Hey Harvonsgard, glad you ask. The Prism is more expensive because I spread the costs of the colour change only across the run of the Prism decks to keep the Monarchs at a cheaper per/unit price. I think this is the fairest solution for collectors."
BOOM grown-up conversation with a logical and absolutely relatable approach. Or another one:
"The prismatic gilding/foil has a way higher price than the gold gilding therefore the price difference."
Or the boring politician's approach:
"I'd rather not discuss pricing. Just be aware that I price my products as fair as possible."
But for the love of god, don't think we are all KWP customers that bought the same deck in another tuck (that costs exactly the same as the other tuck to produce) for an exorbitant price just because it comes in a lower quantity.
Sounds fair?

@Bikefanatic It's a rather condescending and ignorant approach to always think those that are asking questions are the ones with no clue in business. Especially if others don't get to the gist of what is written, but take offense if you leave out basic stuff that they claim you don't know, lol.

[Sir Toddalot]

A) I think I'm talking with grown-ups that are on the same level of intelligence.

Never a good assumption when talking to people on the internet! Or people in general. You’d be surprised how many people can’t understand the basics of business.