Kickstarter Black List

[GandalfPC]

VXD did update on the Frozen project last month, saying that he would fulfill alongside Monte Carlo, and did pop up here last week to address things. While it was arguably aggressive towards backers, to me it came across as hurt and defensive, as seen under the auspices of his mention of protecting his mental health - under that condition I prefer to err on the side of understanding.

There is the point that he sees his track record of being late but fulfilling as being both “you should expect me to be late” and “you should expect me to come though” - as well as the point that “a few voices” complain while repeat backers obviously know him and deal with it - an argument that I’m sure he sees as being similar to Lotrek’s record - I would disagree that this is a fair view, but that is another conversation entirely.

This topic is still an open one, and one of the mods is intending (perhaps already has begun) to have a discussion with him.

I would say at the moment that it does not appear he has run off - and that any future campaign should come with either a disclaimer that there is a better chance than not that it will be late, or that the issue with lateness has been dealt with by having assistance to one degree or another in fulfillment. Should it not appear that either of those is addressed, or that further issues occur with Frozen or Montecarlo that change the picture, I would agree that some measure of warning members of those facts or even blacklisting would be in order.

At the moment I would say to give it a bit of time - not a ton of time - but at least a bit - for things to resolve.

[Grizz]

I understand your points. They seem to be fair.

I completely understand needing to protect your mental health. I suffer with moderate mental health issues that are fairly well treated with medication and therapy. I have been able to develop coping mechanisms that help me deal with real life. I have had to completely cut ties with close family members and friends to make my life work. IMHO VXD had enough time between Frozen and Monte Carlo to implement some kind of strategy to mitigate delays to his upcoming campaign. I know there are supply chain issues, but other creators are fulfilling projects.

I don't have any way to judge by what is on Kickstarter if VXD is just waiting for prices to return to 2019-2020 levels, or if he has some other plan in mind.

[Bradius]

Everybody has a different idea of who and what to blacklist. I have backed no less than 661 Kickstarter projects over the years on just my main Kickstarter account. My first kickstarter has never delivered, but here I am still backing projects. If I dropped backing kickstarter after that and just got decks through retail outlets, I would never have amassed the collection of cards and other neat stuff that I now have. In this case though, I am still very, very confident that the decks and "ice" block will be delivered.

[Grizz]

Everybody has a different idea of who and what to blacklist. I have backed no less than 661 Kickstarter projects over the years on just my main Kickstarter account. My first kickstarter has never delivered, but here I am still backing projects. If I dropped backing kickstarter after that and just got decks through retail outlets, I would never have amassed the collection of cards and other neat stuff that I now have. In this case though, I am still very, very confident that the decks and "ice" block will be delivered.

I understand your points. Maybe we should expect all VXD decks to ship late. I just wanted to raise the issue that, so that when the next campaign launches under a "new creator" forum members will know to watch out. Two years just seemed like enough time to fulfil Frozen. I don't see prices dropping in the near future since we are now dealing with inflation.

[Timmargh]

[...] My first kickstarter has never delivered, but here I am still backing projects. [...]

My third Kickstarter is now seven and a half years overdue, but still promising to deliver.

[GandalfPC]

now seven and a half years overdue, but still promising to deliver.

It sounds like its old enough now to walk over on its own.

[Bradius]

"My third Kickstarter is now seven and a half years overdue, but still promising to deliver. "

I was going to say you are almost as much of an optimist as I am, but then I realized you didn't say you BELIEVED them

[Adamthinks]

[...] My first kickstarter has never delivered, but here I am still backing projects. [...]

My third Kickstarter is now seven and a half years overdue, but still promising to deliver.

My first kickstarter [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sp ... le_backed/] is 10 years late and has been months away from fulfilling for about 5 years. The karma from that one must have shielded me, as I haven't had an undelivered pledge since.

[GandalfPC]

Well that is impressive - its a software project (game) with 125 updates, last about 6 months ago - as they “wrapped up the save/load” system…

It would seem that they need a better programmer, but perhaps they will figure it out eventually

I think the law of odds says that as long as they keep hitting keys…

[kasuma99]

10 years!!! i can't even image how it feels to the backers! I believe that while the name is still the same, the person is already much different, some might not even on this world anymore.

[Adamthinks]

Well that is impressive - its a software project (game) with 125 updates, last about 6 months ago - as they “wrapped up the save/load” system…

It would seem that they need a better programmer, but perhaps they will figure it out eventually

I think the law of odds says that as long as they keep hitting keys…

Yeah, i check on it every 6 months or so for a laugh. The game itself is made by the creators of the old Space Quest games from way back. Sierra owns the rights so this game is basically another game in the same spirit and style as those (which i loved) without infringing the IP. They've run into all sorts of delays mainly of their own making, but there was a major illness to one of the people involved also. They also probably underestimated how much money they needed ($500k was the goal). They haven't said so, but it's been clear for a looooooooong time that they had run out of money for the project. Despite the numerous updates, many of them had been lies, like one update years ago said the game was due to be finished in 3 months when it came out in a muuuuch later update that they still hadn't even finished the script or hired voice actors. It's been a journey for sure. The nearly 40,000 comments can attest to that. I had only backed for like $25 or so, so it's not the end of the world and the calamity has been a source of entertainment. Some backed for muuuuch more and are understandably pretty upset. The most recent update that they hadn't thought to implement a save system until the very end gave me a good chuckle. I don't know if it'll ever be released, nor do i care too much either at this point. It's become clear that the couple people left working on it are only doing so a couple hours a month or so in their off time. It had gone through an Alpha release for bug testing to backers of a certain level, and the word from them did not seem to bode well for the quality of the game. Oh well.

[krystalie]

10/10 best topic in this forum. So glad I found it, spent almost an hour reading all the threads and laughing to myself and I'm not even done. I think the linked threads can be collated as a book and the list of blacklist dudes can become a set of cards LOL.

[PiazzaDelivery]

10/10 best topic in this forum. So glad I found it, spent almost an hour reading all the threads and laughing to myself and I'm not even done. I think the linked threads can be collated as a book and the list of blacklist dudes can become a set of cards LOL.

I would blindly put my trust and money in the pockets of any shady creator who chose to produce such a deck.

[GandalfPC]

As I posted in the Skymember Origins thread a moment ago:

I reached out to them via instagram to remind them of the upcoming deadline (the 12th of June, three weeks since my last contact with them) and that have replied that they will be posting an update on or before that date. I was clear on my intentions, and my expectations, the details of which I will discuss here only if the update fails to meet the needed criteria. It is not my intention to be unreasonable, nor to be placated.

[Toomanycards!]

I believe it’s time to nominate Lou Tolentino, ‘creator’ of Benchmark cards:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/be ... escription

He raised $21k for this project, said the cards had been printed but stated in an update last September that his wages were garnished and so can’t pay for the fulfillment. There’s been no update since last December. It seems pretty clear that he’s used the funds to pay off his debts.

Lou’s apparently a’pillar of the community’ and seems to have a number of friends who vouch for him but who have replied pretty aggressively to anyone who questioned him in the comments.

The cards were designed by Eight High Studios who have abandoned the project whilst also claiming that the project isn’t a scam and that the cards will be delivered but it certainly appears that Lou has done a runner with the funds raised.

[GandalfPC]

Benchmark campaign does look like a good example of why someone should qualify for the blacklist - not just for delay and lack of communication, but for painting a fairly obvious picture of a person who is in no position financially to run a campaign.

They claim (for quite some time) that cards have been printed and that Gamblers Warehouse has them in storage - two claims that seem like the kind of thing that we should have (or develop) the resources to verify. It’s high time we pulled together contacts at the various printers and fulfillment houses to be able to confirm such things.

Should they be confirmed to be at GW I’m not sure that provides any avenue to getting them delivered, perhaps it might, but it would be nice to be able to determine the truth behind such claims in any case - if only to allow quicker action in the future when such claims are made. (Same for confirming projects going through the printing process).

As for Lou himself, it does not sound like there is much point in going after him in hopes of pressuring him to fix the issue, as it is obvious that like Vanda, they are in no condition to remedy their mistakes - perhaps after a great deal of time has passed they will do so, but currently only punitive action might be taken and I prefer to take action only where remedy might be achieved - especially in cases where it seems things have “fallen apart” - should an obvious scam be the case I would feel differently.

[bdawg923]

As I posted in the Skymember Origins thread a moment ago:

I reached out to them via instagram to remind them of the upcoming deadline (the 12th of June, three weeks since my last contact with them) and that have replied that they will be posting an update on or before that date. I was clear on my intentions, and my expectations, the details of which I will discuss here only if the update fails to meet the needed criteria. It is not my intention to be unreasonable, nor to be placated.

Gandalf today on June 12

5B59A1DD-4964-4159-961A-19F776609DEB.gif (2.2 MiB) Viewed 10245 times

There's still time until the day ends but I don't got my hopes high!

[GandalfPC]

I know - I’m watching them - decided not to give them an extra poke today as they are well aware of the deadline from my poke a few days ago. I have seen them log in to Kickstarter yesterday and today, so hopefully they are working on their update text.

I will add that if they don’t update today that they would have been better off not telling me that they would do so a few days back, as such things only rile me further.

[GandalfPC]

I did decide to give them a poke in the final hours, and they have replied and requested a few more days stay, which I am granting, as it is best for all parties if they sort this out - and a few days stay will not effect any actions that may be taken to recover funds.

Should they not post an update in the next few days with an acceptable conclusion (and since they seem determined to not post an update before then) they are in my judgement forcing my hand to lose patience.



As they replied to me:

“Hi Jason, we are waiting warehouse confirmation for the final number. They are not operating in weekend. This post is not an usual update but the final answer that conclude the Origin projects.”



It was of course possible for them to reach out to the warehouse before the weekend one would assume, and waiting until the last minute is hardly a good excuse - but as stated, a few more days will tell the tale if they are honestly concluding or just stalling for a few days (which frankly seems illogical, but where humans are concerned, hardly impossible)

It is of course possible that as it is Monday morning in Singapore that they miscalculated being able to reach the warehouse - frankly I don’t care - they will either conclude in a few days or not.


The first thing I will be looking for should they fail to deliver will be backers that wish to obtain refunds, both on Kickstarter and from Backerkit - Backerkit should be fairly easy - Kickstarter will likely rely upon finding enough users from states where consumer protection laws are strongest (in some states credit card refunds for fraud cases extend for very long periods of time and may even allow for treble damages to be collected)

I will also be contacting credit card companies fraud departments to find any direct remedies that they can provide or point to, which may or may not be state based.

Should we get to that phase, since I am not a backer, we will need backers who can post comments bringing other backers to this forum so that they may participate.

One imagines this might also allow those that had to pay for extra shipping charges under pressure to recover those charges as well.

Aa stated above, I expect those who preordered via Backerkit to have the easiest and most direct methods available to refunds.

The legal recourse and pursuit of treble damages where appropriate will be focused on getting State Attorney Generals participation I am assuming, though that may not be necessary depending on state laws and credit card companies responsibilities to comply, but the actual legwork in finding all remedies available will take place next week should Skymember prove to not be earnest.

[GandalfPC]

I have been in touch with them, but as they failed to reply to a request for status a few days ago I let them know that I would be getting the ball rolling this morning on assisting in any way possible with obtaining refunds for backers. They did pop back up this morning at 8:30am:

0C0BCD55-8D0B-4C75-9B09-DA74161B3202.jpeg (87.54 KiB) Viewed 10145 times

I replied that in that end that “not wanting to update without solid solutions” would not be acceptable, and that they must abide by kickstarter obligations to post updates regardless.

I will be staying my hand for a few more days to see if, and how, they meet those obligations.

[bdawg923]

Holy guacamole they actually sent an update

[GandalfPC]

I told them this morning that they missed the promised window above and patience was gone, that tomorrow morning I would take action regardless of any reply they made to me on instagram unless an update was posted. Then I put a cherry on top by blocking them on instagram.

May just be coincidence that they finally posted today of course…


I am not a backer and can’t read their updates - just give me a heads up if they don’t end up wrapping things to your satisfaction.

[bdawg923]

PLEASE ACCEPT OUR APOLOGIES
We’re terribly sorry for being Missing in Action for past 7 months and failed to follow up with you guys.

Our company crippled by a series of strikes, one after another. They are truly complicated and mentally exhaust to solve them. A simple update wouldn’t be able to explain numerous events.


We kindly request for your highest attention to read this update


In this update, we will explain and point out the past events (Part 2).

Following by the production progress and our solutions on how to conclude the project (Part 3).


We need real support from you guys...


PAST EVENTS ::
September - December 2021

Conflicts happened between two companies. Skymember Presents Malaysia (MY) and Singapore (SG).

As result, the directors of Skymember Singapore refuse to send extra productions fund to Skymember Presents LLP Malaysia.

After a long-running dispute, directors of Singapore branch decided to close the company to avoid any potential campaign risks, losses and leave us behind.



Two Companies Relationship

Nov – December 2021
International Orders

High rate of shipment lost/damage from DHL Ecommerce. Shipping cost spiked; the shipping fee collected from Kickstarter was subsidised. For each declared lost/damage, we need to bear additional loss for the replacement unit. DHL Ecommerce doesn’t compensate us a single cent.

After experience ton of losses and damaged packages, we spent tons of time seeking the right budget couriers for international orders.


Jan-Feb 2022
US/Canada/Mexico/Israel Orders

Assembling new batches (approximately 170 orders) for Pacful (US) and shipped to Malaysia forwarder company. Prepared to export to US via ocean.


Feb-March 2022
Malaysia facing drastic changes in weather with flood occurrence. A bolt from the blue, we were informed by the logistics company that our shipments were damaged. It is a total loss.

Due to natural disaster, the insurance company only able to compensate us 30% of the insured amount.


March – April 2022
We learned from the lesson, after the flood occurrence, we sincerely believe premium shipping (UPS/DHL Express/FedEx) is the only and safest way to deliver Origin to backer’s hand. Therefore we've subscribed DHL Express Services. Peace of mind shipping experiences…

However, bad thing never stopped, Covid case in Malaysia risen once again and several of our core members were INFECTED COVID TWICE.

As result, Ministry of Health Malaysia has ordered our company to close operation until further notice. Those in health conditions are required to quarantine and work from home.

With absence of Austin (he on paternity leave) and work from home procedures, the craftsman and packaging team are not effective as they were.


April-May 2022
The incident of the Singapore company and shipping issues truly tear us apart. Skymember Presents main sources of income are from publishing magic tricks. However, to fulfil the Origin, we have had to reallocated our available resources.

As the result? We have no income for the past few months. Our production team spent most of their time in assembling Origin and packing. We are not able to focus the magic production line.

Obviously this is not a long-run solution. The longer the fulfilment is, the higher cost is. As a company, we need funds for operating expenses to keep the business running. At this point, we must prioritise the magic production before we can resume the Origin fulfilment.


Now you guys know what happened in the past events.
Take a deep breath and take your time to digest all the info.

Have a break and enjoy the video that we made for the notebook add-on.

Part 3 (Productions, Problems and Solutions) drop near soon.


Sorry for formatting I'm on mobile

[laitostarr777]

It's just so weird that Skymember Presents still have long overdued decks to be sent out for those who ordered the decks and who backed the project.
I am not a backer, I got mine through Backerkit and I got those decks after 2 weeks. And here Gandalf doesn't receive his when getting through the same page.

I will keep on praying that you will get yours, Gandalf. Hope these will be sorted out as fast as possible

[Adamthinks]

It sounds like it's going to be a very very long time before they ship those, if ever.

[GandalfPC]

Oh I got my deck - they were a touch stubborn, but didn’t withstand my winning smile and evil eye.

[bdawg923]

Origin just posted an absolutely bizarre update. They said they don't have enough stock to fulfill all orders, and they aren't giving refunds. So whoever messages them first to get their pledge will have to pay more for expedited shipping otherwise they are SOL. Then they said they need time to get more funds to reprint the cards and are so touched that everyone appreciates them?? The update reads like an insane person is writing it.

Our vision : Produce valuable art pieces that could last for next generations.

Our mission : Continuing bring the classic to modern.

As a company which without a solid background in producing collectible playing cards and organizing community, Gratefully! You guys made it happen and supported our vision without hesitation.

The Origin had successfully raised $140K. It was a milestone for us.

It truly touched us and we truly cherish every pledge...


What have we achieved from The Origin?
Start a trend of 3D cuts in the tuck case, gorgeous patents tuck case and generalize rainbow gilded playing cards.
Receiving great feedback from the backers for our product quality and razor sharp attention in packing (fulfillment).
Creating value for the project and it reflects through the price.

Providing spiritual support and spreading the lessons of the bible.

Despite facing many obstacles, the Malaysia team wasn't dismissed. We are still here.

As we mentioned in the last update, Singapore Skymember Presents was closed. Now only the Malaysia Skymember Presents (Productions team) remain operating. We are absolutely “trainees” at handling such situations and in experiential learning…

Fortunately, today we have successfully fulfilled over 60% rewards.


But…WE have a big issues....
Our remaining stocks are not sufficient to fulfill remaining orders.

We can’t afford to lose these balance stocks, after deep consideration and listening to the feedback from several superbackers, we decided to ship these via DHL Express only direct from Malaysia to destination.

The collected shipping funds (subsidized) is only sufficient for domestics and registered mail. Therefore, shipping fee adjustment is mandatory unless your tier includes premium shipping or you are based in Malaysia.

After performing stock counts in the past few weeks, we estimate the remaining stocks are only sufficient to fulfill about 180 orders. First come first serve basis. For example, a backer asked for upgrade shipping, our fulfillment team will expedite the shipment process. However, if the backer changed of mind or fails to make payment, we just unpack and send to next backer.



We are discreet to say that there is no refund option available.

The kickstarter price for Origin is at base price, there is about 50-100% value increment (compared with Backerkit pre-order price). Therefore, if you no longer want to collect the Origin, you may sell them to those who are interested. We can change the shipping address to your buyer.


Frankly, we considered to quit and leave everyone behind after encountering countless obstacles, health and mentally issues. Everyone of us is almost gasping while handling current situations and truly heartbreaking especially reading negative comments...

Luckily, you guys pulled us from the abyss. It truly warms our hearts and lights up our hope again when you guys appreciate our works and share the love. We cherish every single one of you.

To fully concentrate on problem solving, we chose not to post any update in the past few months to avoid terrifying the backers otherwise we will receive countless emails and messages like no tomorrow.


Here, we genuinely beg you guys to trust us like how you guys trust Project Origin. Although the project has passed the estimated delivery date by a year, The Origin taught us many valuable lessons and gave us power and encouraged us to never give up.


Now we need capital funds and time to reprint the playing cards, tuck, deluxe box, add-ons to fulfill the remaining orders.

In the next update, we will post our plans on how we can sort this out together...

[hsbc]

What a mess

[bdawg923]

That's for sure. I feel like this update should have clinched their nomination for the kickstarter blacklist. Well done Skymember

[GandalfPC]

“Frankly, we considered to quit and leave everyone behind” is a pretty ugly sentence, and while they did get “pulled out of the abyss” by love, the need to raise capital and do reprints does not make it seem impossible that they will fall back in.

Prior to this they had discussed shipping cost issues, and in my communication with them told me they were doing inventory counts and working out shipping logistics, it is quite obvious the issues are legion.

Their statement that there is “no refund option available” may well be true for kickstarter backers, at least depending on your state laws, but for backerkit backers I would think that refunds are certainly at the buyers discretion.

We will have to see if they post another update in a reasonably short time and manage to work out their funding issue, but I wouldn’t wait until the fall (neither the season nor the condition)