USPCC deck vs EPCC decks: analysis of quality and handling

[PiazzaDelivery]

PS: If you want guaranteed quality, smooth edges, and the best finish and coating for cardistry, DnD are the best.

I thought I was the only one.

I'm not a cardistry guy (card magic FTW), but the best deck I've handled over the last several years is Tom's Town, printed on "our proprietary crushed-stock preferred by professionals". Holy BALLS to those cards sing. My fingers think themselves magic wands. It really is the best imo; I wholeheartedly agree with you my friend.

[Harvonsgard]

Virts are the thinnes USPCC decks, ...

Which is definitely true for their FW17 release. However their SS15 (the only other Virtuoso deck I own besides a sealed SS16) is on the chunkier site so I wouldn't say all their deck are the thinnest USPCC decks.

As for D&D decks (Art of Play, Fulton's) - Dan mentioned last year in the Deckinaround podcast that the only thing "proprietary" about their stock is that they ask USPCC to let the rollers, which crush the stock, run tighter than normal.
From my experience James (J&T), who has close ties to Dan and Dave Buck, seems to use the same preset for his decks as well, just like A1. At least they feel very, very similar to me.
I appreciate different stocks and therefore, I really like to handle decks from different printers as well but after you handled some different decks, coming back to a crushed Bee stock deck feels like coming home.

OG Fulton's Clip Joint and Fulton's October V2 seem to be indestructable in my experience. I own a brick of OG Fulton's plus 2 singles (one is signed ergo unopened)...
I've yet to open the brick.

[GandalfPC]

Don’t hear them mentioned often (ever?) but one of the decks I have found fairly indestructible and with great handling are Grinders - printed by Legends

[god_lndr]

Thank you Harvonsgard for your opinion.
A little update on my preferences:
I claimed that Crushed Bee are my favorite decks.
Actually I have found myself going back and forth between Crushed Bee and Crushed Bycicle (premium and retail).
They both have something I like, remains the fact that both are Uspcc, so I love the coating. Never fully liked Asians coatings... Too waxy/platicky/oily.... USA cards feel more like paper to me... As an ex casino dealer we mostly dealt plastic cards... I hate them now! Everything that will make feel a deck even close to plastic, I discard the deck from using it, rather I put it on my shelf. The only Asian decks I have been able to enjoy for a while were Tempo from Ark playing cards.

Ok that's it.

[GandalfPC]

I did finally manage to crack open a King of Tigers deck - felt great, faro was spot on, but the fan was shy of perfection. The latest Stratosphere’s just arrived today, so I will see if they hit all the marks…

Determined that both decks deserved a bit of breaking in before judging either - so that is what I will do

[DestinationQ1]

How do they compare? The big question for a lot of people will be how NPCC produced decks compare with the bigger and well-known names in the playing card industry, especially USPCC, LPCC/EPCC, and MPC. Are they a legitimate option to consider besides the usual contenders? Using the letter grades of common academic grading systems, I'd personally ranks USPCC and LPCC/EPCC as A-grade publishers, and MPC as a B-grade publisher. Not everyone would agree, but in my own opinion I think LPCC/EPCC ranks slightly ahead of USPCC both in terms of card quality and because of their level of innovation and the quality of their tuck boxes, so in the final analysis I'd consider LPCC/EPCC an A+ grade and USPCC an A grade. The fact that USPCC decks don't always have consistent registration (e.g. borders can sometimes be slightly wider/narrower on one side than on the opposite side) also accounts for making them my second choice. But on the whole, project creators who use either source are unlikely to be disappointed. MPC decks on the other hand don't handle quite as smoothly or evenly, and the general consensus of most creators/collectors is that they aren't quite as good, which is why I'd consider them a B-grade. I'd rate Noir Arts decks about the same as MPC - they just don't handle as consistently or sweetly as USPCC/LPCC decks. Like MPC decks, Noir Arts decks aren't a reliable choice for cardistry or card magic. For the average person, they'll be quite satisfactory, and they'll outperform the typical "cheap" deck, hence the B-grade rating, but it's not top of the line. However, Noir Arts produces absolutely stellar tuck boxes, and in my book that means they deserve a higher rating than MPC, so I'd upgrade my final rating for NPCC to a B+. So in order, in my final analysis I'd rank these publishers as follows: A-grade: LPCC/EPCC (A+) and USPCC (A); B-grade: NPCC (B+) and MPC (B). the original article for many more details and comments on the quality, handling, and durability of the NPCC cards.

Hello Mr EndersGame, firstly, love what you do for the community. Since I am pretty new to the card design community, your articles and experience is very helpful. Would like to pick your brain and seek some advice if you don’t mind..

1) I am preparing my next KS launch OCULUS Tarot+Playing cards. I have done a previous prototype launch with Shuffled Ink and are now looking for a more power house manufacture to do a larger print job. I have used USPCC before and would like to try a different company. You have mention LPCC/EPCC in your post 4-5 years ago. Does the rating still holds till now or has it changed?

2) From the video that you posted of Chris Ramsey, he recommended the Stud Finish. Has there been any new finish that may surpass the Stud in your opinion?

3) Since LPCC/EPCC is based in Taiwan, I am worried about the shipping cost to be distributed, most likely at Gamblers Warehouse, in the US. Maybe I can distributed both in Asia and in the USA? Any article(s) that you have written that speaks about Asian fulfillment company or shipping related topics?

4) Is there another US base company that you speak of that is almost as good as USPCC?

Thanks and keep up the great work,
DQ1

P.s. just started this article that you have written. This is great!
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/1159 ... c-and-epcc

[EndersGame]

Hello DQ1, best wishes to you as you work on your playing card project. As you already discovered, Shuffled Ink is great for prototypes, and I'm glad that worked for you. I've personally found their service good as well.

Going with LPCC for the larger print run is not a bad move. But LPCC's Stud Finish was a very limited stock and to my knowledge is not available to customers anymore. It's almost too soft to be practical anyway. You should also know that instead of printing mostly in Taiwan as they did previously, LPCC and EPCC are now operating primarily out of a new factory in China that they are partnering with. You can read full details in the article you linked to, including about their Viper Finish and their Crushed Classic Stock, which are their two most popular ones. I don't know that printing outside the US is going to increase your fulfilment costs significantly, because manufacturers operating from China and Taiwan seem to have good channels in place to make their final prices a very competitive alternative to going with USPCC in the USA.

If you want card quality that is almost on par with USPCC, another option you should look into is WJPC. It is also based in China, but their German 300gsm card stock has been receiving very positive reviews, and most people consider its quality and handling close to being on the level of USPCC's crushed stock. Personally I've been very impressed with the durability and handling quality of this particular stock, and so have a lot of people. For an overview of this particular manufacturer, see my article Playing Card Manufacturer: Shenzhen Wangjing Printing Company. WJPC has been used successfully by big name designers like Stockholm17 and others, and is making an increasingly positive and substantial contribution to the playing card industry.