The Successor by TGW/Kevin Cantrell

[masagin303]

I feel it worthwhile to point out that in the last campaign, TGW also included the Wylenti deck as an add on for the exorbitant price of $6. One of my Wylenti decks at this moment is on my desk underneath an Eye of the Ocean gilded Solis deck.

I am going for a five deck set because I too really like the Gilded White Monarch deck, but I am honestly excited to get all five decks. I even added a second Imperial Black deck, because that is likely the deck I am going to open and enjoy. I will probably add at least one more Imperial black deck to my order before all is said and done. Keven's art is amazing and I am excited to get this set.

I didn't feel obliged or forced to get all the decks for Tale of the Tempest and nor do I feel so this time. In the end, there are quite a few folks that do want the full set. In my opinion, I think the box set is stunning and would make an awesome box set and display piece that is worth every bit of what it is priced at.

Good point! I still regret not getting a brick of Wylenti because when I got the deck to my hands I was totally amazed! I can honestly say it’s my favourite deck to date and for $6 it’s pure madness!

[STLBluesNut]

I am going for a five deck set because I too really like the Gilded White Monarch deck, but I am honestly excited to get all five decks. I even added a second Imperial Black deck, because that is likely the deck I am going to open and enjoy. I will probably add at least one more Imperial black deck to my order before all is said and done.

there might be something to be said when Brad only gets 6 or 7 decks lol.

[TheGentlemanWake]

I really cannot believe we are still discussing this.

I don’t know what else I can say other than what I have said 4 or 5 times before. Without the red and blue decks there IS NO WHITE deck. I don’t know how else to articulate it. This is the structure I have chosen for this campaign. I will not be adjusting it for this campaign. My next campaign, BeetleBacks, is by nature a very different campaign but I can almost assuredly say the BeetleBacks Dynastinae will NOT be available on its own. With only 777 decks I cannot justify allowing folks to pledge for those decks without also pledging for the decks in lower tiers. I need to honor the POSSIBILTY that is being ignored here. There are backers who want them all.

I’m sure you all have heard of Occam’s razor? An axiom that goes like this; “the simplest solution is often the most likely” … what’s a simpler solution? That backers are biting the bullet to purchase something they really don’t want to have a deck they do want OR that maybe, just maybe, they like the box?! Art of play managed to sell 500 of the standards box set. I was one of them. So I know people who like the box set are out there.

the discussion isn't why or to change what is already done, this discussion is what we would have pledged if things were different. you have been pretty clear on why you structured things the way you did and it is highly appreciated. ''Without the red and blue decks there IS NO WHITE deck.'' well, to be fair, as it is, without the red, blue and black deck there is no white. it used to be without the red or blue. that is no longer the case.

im not sure whether or not there are people who want everything, including the box, exist was actually a question.

i am sure there could be more discussion about the quote above but nothing that wouldn't be going in circles at this point.

The crazy thing is is that part of the reason for all this is the show-everything-up-front structure that many clamored for. If this had been a ‘traditional’ campaign the white deck wouldn’t have even been revealed until about 15 days to go. People, perhaps even you, would’ve back the red or blue or black deck out of its own merits without even knowing the white deck or green or purple for that matter existed. But the irony is I chose to listen to the voices urging me to show all the decks upfront. The result? Backers who want to ‘cherry-pick’ to use vernacular being thrown around here by others.

I bucked an established trend. And maybe it’s hurting the campaign.

Also with regard to the above. You are right. Without the black there is no white. All of them serve to make the more elaborate editions possible.

I think I’m gonna take a small break from the forums. I’ll be around. I’m not leaving permanently. Just under a lot stresss.

[brownsl]

Even though I have never had a KS campaign, I can still appreciate the stress of running one and the need to take a break from the forums. Am I totally happy with the campaign, no as I want that dang Prism deck but overall I love the decks I am getting.

The only other thing I want to add is that only fantastic decks/campaigns and very engaged designers create this amount of passionate feedback (28 pages on the forum!). So at least you know you have an amazing project even if you can't please everyone!

[STLBluesNut]

The crazy thing is is that part of the reason for all this is the show-everything-up-front structure that many clamored for. If this had been a ‘traditional’ campaign the white deck wouldn’t have even been revealed until about 15 days to go. People, perhaps even you, would’ve back the red or blue or black deck out of its own merits without even knowing the white deck or green or purple for that matter existed. But the irony is I chose to listen to the voices urging me to show all the decks upfront. The result? Backers who want to ‘cherry-pick’ to use vernacular being thrown around here by others.

I bucked an established trend. And maybe it’s hurting the campaign.

Also with regard to the above. You are right. Without the black there is no white. All of them serve to make the more elaborate editions possible.

I think I’m gonna take a small break from the forums. I’ll be around. I’m not leaving permanently. Just under a lot stresss.

if you didnt show, or at least say that they were going to come out, all of the decks upfront how would you have billed the box set with 6 decks without showing them? 2 or 3 decks with 3 or 4 mystery decks to be shown later in the campaign? the other 4 decks would have had to have been told about at least or else the box tier would have been 2 decks and a box for $425. you certainly wouldn't be almost sold out of boxes if that were the case. i think even if they were not available at the start you would have shown them here at least. it may be semantics but i think what many clamored for is for everything to be available upfront, not simply shown that they existed. the desire was to not have surprise decks or have to go back to the campaign to adjust tiers and do add ons once they were set, iirc. unfortunately, just showing them or making them available at the beginning does not solve the problem a portion of the community has with gating them behind other purchases. yes, i would be one of those who said i would rather know what will be available at the beginning of the campaign even allowing for the case for it to be locked behind a stretch goal.

whether they were shown upfront or not, there would have been cherry-pickers either way as there have been in past with other campaigns. show-everything-upfront did not create them.

as for it hurting the campaign, i think that is impossible to say at this point just as how many people would or wouldn't have bought the box if you didn't have to buy it do get all of the decks. the only thing to be said for certain is that some wanted both, some bought the box just to get the deck and some passed on the deck because they didn't want or want to pay that much for the box. how many are in each category is unknown.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just in case I wasn't abundantly clear before:

I want the case. I want all 6 decks. In fact, I want at least 2 of every deck. I literally want to give you more money.

Maybe a display deck of the 3 gilded ones would suffice. Admittedly, I don't know the logistics of display decks, but JR offered them for most/all of his pricey options.

[kasuma99]

i would have to admit that if there is addon available for the green dynastinae i will probally not back the whole 5 decks set so Omar's model seem to work well as intended on that part.
P/s: Unrelated but iff anyone is pledging for a 4 decks set only and willing to up that to a 5 decks set and share the dynastinae with me i would be greatly appreciated!

[GandalfPC]

P/s: Unrelated but iff anyone is pledging for a 4 decks set only and willing to up that to a 5 decks set and share the dynastinae with me i would be greatly appreciated!

Looks to be plenty of the 5 deck tier left, so no rush - I am in the 4 deck early bird and can up to the 5 for you - difference is $71, shipping to you will be on top of that of course

You may get a slightly cheaper price if someone in the standard 4 deck is willing to do it - and shipping will be cheapest from same country (didn’t note if you were in USA)

[PrincessTrouble]

I don't know how the internals of KS work, but I wonder if it's possible to setup an Add-on for the White deck for example, which is accessible only if you've already pledged for a tier with the white deck in it. Would that help with alleviating the fear of people backing only the white deck without backing any of the red, blue, and black decks?

[Bradius]

I think the problem is still that someone like me that gets a set, but then goes and buys up a number of these limited decks. It would still come down to the same thing. One possible solution would be to add on a second full set. Of course, this isn't a problem for me. I have four Kickstarter accounts, so I could use each to order four 4-deck or 5-deck sets if I want. But that would be just crazy

[hsbc]

I think additional display decks are the only thing that might happen - Omar has explained over and over (and over) why things are priced how they are and why certain items aren't available on their own, and has been graceful and patient doing it - only for it to keep happening again and again and

TGW also included the Wylenti deck as an add on for the exorbitant price of $6.

and for $6 it’s pure madness!

Just as a PSA they were $9.00, not $6.00 And one was free if you spent $100 or more total... well, not including BackerKit, or I'd have gotten a Wylenti for free and didn't?

[Eric Lee]

Sorry. I agree. My frustrations got the better of me. Despite the seemingly great campaign there is a tremendous amount of stress involved in running these things.

See it this way, those are incredibly designed decks that almost everyone, if not all, would love to own at least 1 of the decks. The sheer amount of discussion going on about The Successor decks, pg 28 and counting, is testimony to that. This is a certified hit you have on your hands and a well-deserved success as one of the Top 15 (and counting) most funded KS playing card project. (I didn't count Iron spades as it's as much the chips as the cards.)

Human nature being what it is, of course we're going to talk about it and to nitpick it to pieces! The bigger the success the bigger the buzz after all!

Belated congratulations, let's see how fast you can get into Top 10 and maybe even beat Lorenzo's EOTO!

[GandalfPC]

maybe even beat Lorenzo's EOTO!

Even Moses knew that some seas are too large to part.

[kasuma99]

Looks to be plenty of the 5 deck tier left, so no rush - I am in the 4 deck early bird and can up to the 5 for you - difference is $71, shipping to you will be on top of that of course

Wow much appreciated Gandalf! For now please hold to your EB first, i will wait until near campaign end and see if i can add on the dynastinae on my own, if not i will have to trouble you then!

[shkorc]

The crazy thing is is that part of the reason for all this is the show-everything-up-front structure that many clamored for. If this had been a ‘traditional’ campaign the white deck wouldn’t have even been revealed until about 15 days to go. People, perhaps even you, would’ve back the red or blue or black deck out of its own merits without even knowing the white deck or green or purple for that matter existed. But the irony is I chose to listen to the voices urging me to show all the decks upfront. The result? Backers who want to ‘cherry-pick’ to use vernacular being thrown around here by others.

I bucked an established trend. And maybe it’s hurting the campaign.

You have already surpassed both your previous campaigns, by a lot. Why stress?

[GandalfPC]

Regardless of how much it surpasses previous campaigns - because the thought of how much better it might have done without having gone through this stressful process - just more stressful. Stress is quite the little train that could.

I personally would likely not have gone in for anything less than the white deck, as I like both the deck and the sleeve - but I would have popped in at the 15 days mark when he announced it. So it would not have effected my participation in the end.

Engagement with the group pre-campaign is good - feedback is good - listening to people is good. But too much of a good thing will kill you.

No easy answer as to where the line falls, but people clamoring for things is what people do when they want things - you can hardly blame them for that, and making decisions is what other people have to do, and they should not blame those decisions on clamor - they can of course rethink choices and decide to do things differently next time.

I don’t think that clamor or decisions were a real problem in this case, but I do think that stress is, and I don’t think it was aided very much by the process.

Do a splash of reveal for marketing, do some question and answer for some feedback, make some choices and take your chances - thats about the best its ever going to get. Probably less stressful - certainly not stress free - not with so much on the line, but less is more.

[CourtCurator]

I just wanted to say for the record that I LOVE the sarcophagus AND every deck in it! Your vision hits the mark for me in ways that almost no one else has had the fortitude to try. Your instincts are not wrong. Continue to realize your vision and you will expand the target audience you have intended to serve from the beginning. No brand can be all things to all people. Keep on keeping on with your head held high and the knowledge that your creations are making a lot of people happy. Maybe not everyone, but there is no need for that impossible task to be the goal. Creation is an art form that must stay true to it’s creator, else it loses all of its luster.

[GandalfPC]

I think at this point we should try to keep to the topic of the cards and other goodies, rather than to rehash or request changes to the campaign itself here. DM via kickstarter may be a more fitting way to make requests for such things at this point, if they must be made at all.

I will say that if I wasn’t so busy digging the bottom of the Hanafuda rabbit hole I would be in for the top tier for the campaign most likely, and I will surely envy the pics that those who did will post.

[crazy_lazy]

Engagement with the group pre-campaign is good - feedback is good - listening to people is good. But too much of a good thing will kill you.

+1. Hope Omar comes to realize this

[TheGentlemanWake]

I'm going to give away an uncut Tuck case of YOUR choosing handsigned to the person who most closely guesses the final campaign funding total the Successor will reach without going over. What do you think?

updated everyone's guesses in order:

philmyer92 - 190k
PiazzaDelivery - 200k
Kage X - 210k
crazy_lazy 218k
kasuma99 - 222,222
Timmargh - 226k

FUNDING AT 11pm DAY 1 - 234k

machonekevin - 235k
GandalfPC - 254k
keytopokemon - 260k

FUNDING AT 9pm DAY 4 - 265k

GandalfTheWhite - 267k
Sir Toddalot - 275k
laitostarr777 - 280k
hsbc - 290k
irtjames14 - 297k
STLBlues - 302k
brownsl - 305k
masagin303 - 311k
MagikFingerz - 320k
supeoman - 321k
Harvonsgard - 333,333
Eric Lee- 340k
balrog326 - 350k
HFMJ - 369k
steampunk52 - 375k
rouselle - 385k
Fenrir - 394k
CourtCurator - 404k
vasta41 - 500k
caniveski - 600k
[/quote]

[Bradius]

Yeah, that speaks volumes TGW!

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm going to end up cancelling my pledge. The finances and stress of tracking what I have, and what I want, is just too great for me at this time. I'd rather save my money for JR's LOTR sequels.

If someone wants my EB $475 tier, reply to this comment and we can try to arrange a swap.

[TheGentlemanWake]

I'm going to end up cancelling my pledge. The finances and stress of tracking what I have, and what I want, is just too great for me at this time. I'd rather save my money for JR's LOTR sequels.

If someone wants my EB $475 tier, reply to this comment and we can try to arrange a swap.

I’m certainly sorry to see you go. I was auditioning ways of letting backers back for multiple decks as you initially requested. Regardless your financial and psychological well-being is number one priority. I totally understand.

[shkorc]

Here is an invoice from my recent Butterflies order comparing shipping to Successor.

The eight decks I ordered were delivered from The Czech Republic to Slovenia safely by DPD with the usual extra touches Ondrej and his team pack with.

Not trying to stir anything, just highlighting the difference. I'm certain Omar will make things right, somehow. Cheers!

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm going to end up cancelling my pledge. The finances and stress of tracking what I have, and what I want, is just too great for me at this time. I'd rather save my money for JR's LOTR sequels.

If someone wants my EB $475 tier, reply to this comment and we can try to arrange a swap.

I’m certainly sorry to see you go. I was auditioning ways of letting backers back for multiple decks as you initially requested. Regardless your financial and psychological well-being is number one priority. I totally understand.

That's good to read. It sucks to go, but my life has been a shit-show over the past 2 months. Sadly, this must be done to get things back on track for me. To be honest, pledging in the first place was very wishful thinking on my end. Take solace in knowing that I wish I could stay.

[Bikefanatic]

I'll confess! I got the Monarch tier just because of the white deck. I do like the case for it. When I see the other three decks in person, I might keep them anyway because it'll be nice to have all four of them together because TGW decks are nice and shiny af. The sarcophagus does look beautiful, if I wanted to just get the prism deck then yes I would have bought the sarcophagus. I got a lot of time to change my pledge.

[rousselle]

I pledged the tier that has the Monarch deck PLUS another one of each of the first three decks because, quite frankly, I like 'em. I would have wanted two of each of those Bad Larry's regardless. (And, if the Monarch and/or Rex become available as an additional single add, I'll likely do that, as well. I'm not inclined to do the two KS accounts thing, although I have occasionally done so in the past.)

If we're trying to tally up data points, that's mine.

Oh, and if I could have pledged for the Prism without buying the sarcophagus, I would have. I wanted the Prism. I did not want the sarcophagus. It looks very nice. Alas, I have neither the space for it nor the interest in it, and I don't buy things with the intent to resell. So, that's a data point, too, I suppose. (It's not a criticism, and I'm not trying to dredge up and re-hash that conversation about what TGW *should have* done. I get the reasons, and it's all entirely fine with me. Rather, if we're commenting on whether we wanted what we bought, this is the data point that represents "rousselle, Super Backer!"

[TheGentlemanWake]

In the time it took for my prototypes to be printed to launching the campaign the quote for the cost of Cartamundi printing THE VERY SAME order has gone up $5k. If there’s anymore proof of the volatility of pricing today there you have it. Shipping prices are next.

Meanwhile we have stalled significantly as I expected. Rather I thought we would plateau with a gentle increase. But we have stalled out. I’ll be announcing uncut tucks in an Update today at $10 ea. Regardless of edition in hope that gives us a boost to overcome the unexpected increase in production costs.

Cartamundi has also informed me that mini-decks are off the table. They no longer print them at this time. This means that I’d have to go to a third party printer. Probably WJPC if the stretch goal is met. Of course the stagnant nature of the campaign the likelihood is 400% will not be met.

[STLBluesNut]

do you think a campaign stagnating like you say is because it was so well advertised in advance that everyone who was going to back has already done so? 981 backers is no small accomplishment and is a pretty large number for playing card campaigns as far as i can tell. how many new backers would one expect over the course of a campaign?

[Strag]

Stagnation could also be the impact of launching everything in one go as many here advocated for. There's something to be said to get people coming back through using stretch goals although I haven't done the analysis.