The Successor by TGW/Kevin Cantrell

[theCapraAegagrus]

I have 3 . Had forgotten about that . Guess I could get you an extra white as well, but as that comes with red,blue,black we would need someone looking for extras of those

I'm gonna wait until the end of the campaign to see what needs to be done. I have too much s**t going on to worry about it now, but I have at least voiced my concerns.

[masagin303]

As I mentioned. My shipping rates were based on Lorenzo’s model for EOTO. I do realize that $6 for one deck feels like a lot. I’m taking the necessary steps to mitigate that and make sure folks are able to maximize their dollar spent. Adjustments are all I can do. Shipping is terrifying as a creator. It’s an unknown and looming threat that can easily derail a business from a profitable track. On tempest we spent $26k on shipping alone.

In that case I'm afraid something went wrong with applying the EOTO model. This is my EOTO half-brick pledge with 15 EUR ($16) shipping to Prague.

eoto.png (33.67 KiB) Viewed 14244 times

Successors half-brick shipping to Prague is actually $35! Wasn't there some kind of Excel misalignment or something? I think maybe that's why people are shocked by the shipping prices and it really seems unfair compared to free shipping in US and Germany.

[TheGentlemanWake]

As I mentioned. My shipping rates were based on Lorenzo’s model for EOTO. I do realize that $6 for one deck feels like a lot. I’m taking the necessary steps to mitigate that and make sure folks are able to maximize their dollar spent. Adjustments are all I can do. Shipping is terrifying as a creator. It’s an unknown and looming threat that can easily derail a business from a profitable track. On tempest we spent $26k on shipping alone.

In that case I'm afraid something went wrong with applying the EOTO model. This is my EOTO half-brick pledge with 15 EUR ($16) shipping to Prague.


eoto.png


Successors half-brick shipping to Prague is actually $35! Wasn't there some kind of Excel misalignment or something? I think maybe that's why people are shocked by the shipping prices and it really seems unfair compared to free shipping in US and Germany.

Perhaps, I'll look into it.

[shkorc]

Personally I wasn't convinced by the Prism deck design and find the Monarch and Dynastinae equally beautiful with very similar features . Since the price increase for the full set is so much higher my heart is happy with the lower tier. Although the box could have swayed me over, again the higher price called for financial discipline

[TheGentlemanWake]

I have added some add-ons for 12 decks of red, 12 decks of blue, 12 decks mixed, 6 decks red, 6 decks blue and 3 deck imperial set. All have reduced shipping costs relative to the initial tiers that should help mitigate a bit of the issues with shipping.

Looking at my shipping tables, i didn't add a european union distinction. Which I should have. The EU got lumped in with Rest of World. What that means is that for someone in Singapore the price of shipping is probably a little LESS that what they'd normally expect. I cannot remove tiers or alter them at this point--but what I can do is continue to brainstorm what I can do for EU customers who may have slightly overpaid for shipping. The other very real possibility is that when time comes to fulill that fulfillment/shipping prices might have climbed considerably.

[Bradius]

I am sure the world will calm down. Inflation will drop to near zero and shipping prices will come down significantly from where they are. Also, Manufacturers will reduce costs and cut production times considerably.....or not.

[PrincessTrouble]

I pledged for the 4 deck tier (red, blue, black, white). I understand the white deck was designed to have the sleeve and I'm looking forward to having one of those. But what I would love is to be able to add on white decks sans the sleeve at a more affordable price point. I don't see myself wanting more than one sleeve but I do want to add on more than one white deck to my pledge.

[vasta41]

I pledged for the 4 deck tier (red, blue, black, white). I understand the white deck was designed to have the sleeve and I'm looking forward to having one of those. But what I would love is to be able to add on white decks sans the sleeve at a more affordable price point. I don't see myself wanting more than one sleeve but I do want to add on more than one white deck to my pledge.

+1!

[balrog326]

I wonder if Omar is still going to make the special numbered carat cases for the Prototype decks. I believe he mentioned them during the 2 hour show before the launch. I loved the idea and think they would make the proto decks even more extraordinary

[TheGentlemanWake]

I wonder if Omar is still going to make the special numbered carat cases for the Prototype decks. I believe he mentioned them during the 2 hour show before the launch. I loved the idea and think they would make the proto decks even more extraordinary

Yes, this is the plan. I have to get the artwork finalized and sent to Sherman.

[rousselle]

I pledged for the 4 deck tier (red, blue, black, white). I understand the white deck was designed to have the sleeve and I'm looking forward to having one of those. But what I would love is to be able to add on white decks sans the sleeve at a more affordable price point. I don't see myself wanting more than one sleeve but I do want to add on more than one white deck to my pledge.

+1!

Oh, very much this. If they are made available, I do intend to add another Monarch and another Rex to my Bloodline bundle, but an extra Monarch sleeve is a space taker-upper with no benefit to me. Reducing the fancy sleeve for any additional Monarch deck would save on cost, save space, and still allow me one super fancy version to show off the outside and another version to open up and fondle. Handle. I mean handle. And ogle. I mean look at. I'd still want my second Monarch to be gilded; I just don't need the extra sleeve.

Oh, and allow me please to add my name to the petition for a display deck version of the Prism!

[shkorc]

Looking at my shipping tables, i didn't add a european union distinction. Which I should have. The EU got lumped in with Rest of World. What that means is that for someone in Singapore the price of shipping is probably a little LESS that what they'd normally expect. I cannot remove tiers or alter them at this point--but what I can do is continue to brainstorm what I can do for EU customers who may have slightly overpaid for shipping. The other very real possibility is that when time comes to fulill that fulfillment/shipping prices might have climbed considerably.

Looking forward what you come up with, cheers.

[Grizz]

I pledged for the 4 deck tier (red, blue, black, white). I understand the white deck was designed to have the sleeve and I'm looking forward to having one of those. But what I would love is to be able to add on white decks sans the sleeve at a more affordable price point. I don't see myself wanting more than one sleeve but I do want to add on more than one white deck to my pledge.

+1!

Oh, very much this. If they are made available, I do intend to add another Monarch and another Rex to my Bloodline bundle, but an extra Monarch sleeve is a space taker-upper with no benefit to me. Reducing the fancy sleeve for any additional Monarch deck would save on cost, save space, and still allow me one super fancy version to show off the outside and another version to open up and fondle. Handle. I mean handle. And ogle. I mean look at. I'd still want my second Monarch to be gilded; I just don't need the extra sleeve.

Oh, and allow me please to add my name to the petition for a display deck version of the Prism!

There are a couple of things. I was told that decks won't be sold without the cast zinc case. I hope this changes. I am avoiding the decks that come with the a zinc case including the large box. Are you sure the white deck come with a metal sleave? I thought the only upgrade to the black deck and white deck compared to the blue and red decks was foil.

[Harvonsgard]

Not a metal sleeve or case but a paper sleeve with a metal plate on the front and yes, it was communicated from the start.
Red, blue, black, Dynastinæ without the sleeves that hold the metal plate. Monarch and Prism having the sleeve and metal plate.

[Grizz]

Not a metal sleeve or case but a paper sleeve with a metal plate on the front and yes, it was communicated from the start.
Red, blue, black, Dynastinæ without the sleeves that hold the metal plate. Monarch and Prism having the sleeve and metal plate.

I must have missed the information on Kickstarter about the cases being made of paper with a metal plate glued on top. Thank you for the quick reply

[Eric Lee]

I'm wondering if the Crown Prince minideck stretch goal is going to the the White Monarch display deck; following in Lorenzo's EOTO example of the Quartermaster mini deck.

Great if it is; but the 400% target to unlock it sucks as it means it has to reach nearly $500k .

[Eric Lee]

Looking at my shipping tables, i didn't add a european union distinction. Which I should have. The EU got lumped in with Rest of World. What that means is that for someone in Singapore the price of shipping is probably a little LESS that what they'd normally expect. I cannot remove tiers or alter them at this point--but what I can do is continue to brainstorm what I can do for EU customers who may have slightly overpaid for shipping. The other very real possibility is that when time comes to fulill that fulfillment/shipping prices might have climbed considerably.

I've backed other projects where this has happened. What some of them did to resolve it is to open new tiers with the proper shipping tier. Send out an update to inform everyone beforehand when it would open and to drop their current tier to move to the new tier when it opens.

However with so many EB tiers, you'll have a major headache managing it to ensure the EB people keep their EB prices. So not sure if it's worth the effort? But it'll work for the non-EB EU backers and reduce the amount of EU backers you have to resolve the shipping differences.

Maybe easier to just open another EB tier for EU backers and give big clear warning that this is ONLY for EU backers and all the non-EU addresses will be removed.

Just my 2cs for what it's worth.

[masagin303]

Looking at my shipping tables, i didn't add a european union distinction. Which I should have. The EU got lumped in with Rest of World. What that means is that for someone in Singapore the price of shipping is probably a little LESS that what they'd normally expect. I cannot remove tiers or alter them at this point--but what I can do is continue to brainstorm what I can do for EU customers who may have slightly overpaid for shipping. The other very real possibility is that when time comes to fulill that fulfillment/shipping prices might have climbed considerably.

I've backed other projects where this has happened. What some of them did to resolve it is to open new tiers with the proper shipping tier. Send out an update to inform everyone beforehand when it would open and to drop their current tier to move to the new tier when it opens.

However with so many EB tiers, you'll have a major headache managing it to ensure the EB people keep their EB prices. So not sure if it's worth the effort? But it'll work for the non-EB EU backers and reduce the amount of EU backers you have to resolve the shipping differences.

Maybe easier to just open another EB tier for EU backers and give big clear warning that this is ONLY for EU backers and all the non-EU addresses will be removed.

Just my 2cs for what it's worth.

I'm afraid this is really unmanageable. It will be easier to add the shipping difference as a credit to Backerkit and hope next time it doesn't happen.

[STLBluesNut]

some of the comments here are part of the problem. there are many that have various issues with this campaign structure, pricing, etc but you are all still buying anyway. this just sends the message to creators that they can just do what they want anyway because people will still just buy in. TGW mentioned above what lessons would you learn from this, clearly the lesson for him is to just continue on the path of paywalling/gating, artificial rarity and developing huge high price items with their costs spread out across the campaign to everyone that doesn't buy them because either people don't care or don't care enough to not back. make something shiny enough and people will buy it no matter the cost.

unless there is some sort of survey that everyone fills out honestly with the results released, there will be no way to know if people bought the box to have the box, to have the deck, to have both. it really doesn't matter because people are buying the box, almost all of them. this only give him and other creators the green light do do more of the same again. for all of TGW's awesome interaction and transparency here, which we all appreciate very much, he was right in the beginning. we are a small % of the community. so for all of the complaints, he doesn't have to listen or change a thing. there are either enough people who just buy anything anyway or we just buy anyway even though we don't like the practice, price, etc. this and many other campaigns just prove that.

so complaining about it does nothing when you still vote for it by buying it. you cant keep supporting these practices with your wallet and then expect them to change or go away. same goes for aftermarket gougers. expect to keep seeing this in the future, if not more.

[GandalfPC]

People complain because they wish it were different, and if it were perhaps they would spend more - so there is that - but as TGW is painfully aware, there is no surety that the overall campaign would do better.

Another point is that unless peoples complaints are listened to there is always a possibility that another campaign structured in this manner might fall flat - past performance is no guarantee of future success, but listening to customers is a potential hedge on that bet.

Listening to customers is also no guarantee of future success though, depending on what and who you listen to. For instance I am a terrible person to listen to when it comes to how I buy vs the general public - I am an outlier - my advice should always be taken with that in mind.

If someone were to ask my advice I would say everything should be simple, pricing should stay low for those grabbing one of everything and it should be possible to grab as many as you want - limited editions of things are fine with me, but if very limited people should only be able to get one, and I should be one of those people

I didn’t go for the box - thus I cannot get the prism - but that is the sum total of the effect the campaign structure has made on my final dollar total. Others can speak up if they wish - what would your pledge have been if you had open season on the decks and box?

[caniveski]

My main issue is that with a US address you can add on a deck with zero shipping. Most if not all other countries can add decks with $6 dollars shipping. Although I have backed I won't be adding anything to my pledge. Maybe I'm a little pissed!! but it seems like non usa shipping is subsidising the USA free shipping

[Harvonsgard]

My pledge would've been high-end trio (Prism, Monarch, Dynastinæ) times two. For now my pledge is 0€ and I am kinda looking into how to get atleast one of each Monarch and Dynastinæ but my conviction is the same as STL's so I might end up doing the same as I did with Tempest - not buying.

[STLBluesNut]

my pledge was looking to be about $94 only because i would have had to purchase a red or blue to get the white. however, due to the other issues with campaign practices, that was looking unlikely before the launch. then looking after the launch to see what the final price of the white turned out to be, i saw you had to go in for the 4 deck set to get it after the months of saying it would be available as an add on. so no chance at a pledge. down from about a 5% chance. the white deck was the star of this campaign which was more than i would normally spend on any deck @ $75 alone.

if everything was completely open, i would have bought only the white if i bought anything. that just frees up money to pledge for 3 of the other campaigns that launched the same day.

you are right, listening to feedback, or complaints, has no guarantee to make more or less money. however, reading the comments above it appears to be fact that if there was not paywalling and artificial rarity he would have sold more decks but this campaign wasn't really all about the decks was it? a portion, i would argue a major portion, was about selling and recouping costs for the fancy box.

[masagin303]

Certainly if everything was cherry-pickable, buyers would be happy. But I’m pretty sure the economy of the campaign could really go flatline. I would also be happy to pick up the Prism deck but I respect the decision to make it exclusive. I personally don’t want to buy some blink box to get it. I don’t collect heavy boxes. So I’m just buying the decks that makes sense to me and my only complaint is that the shipping is objectively overpriced and I can only hope that TGW will handle this with grace.

[TheGentlemanWake]

I really cannot believe we are still discussing this.

I don’t know what else I can say other than what I have said 4 or 5 times before. Without the red and blue decks there IS NO WHITE deck. I don’t know how else to articulate it. This is the structure I have chosen for this campaign. I will not be adjusting it for this campaign. My next campaign, BeetleBacks, is by nature a very different campaign but I can almost assuredly say the BeetleBacks Dynastinae will NOT be available on its own. With only 777 decks I cannot justify allowing folks to pledge for those decks without also pledging for the decks in lower tiers. I need to honor the POSSIBILTY that is being ignored here. There are backers who want them all.

I’m sure you all have heard of Occam’s razor? An axiom that goes like this; “the simplest solution is often the most likely” … what’s a simpler solution? That backers are biting the bullet to purchase something they really don’t want to have a deck they do want OR that maybe, just maybe, they like the box?! Art of play managed to sell 500 of the standards box set. I was one of them. So I know people who like the box set are out there.

[TheGentlemanWake]

Certainly if everything was cherry-pickable, buyers would be happy. But I’m pretty sure the economy of the campaign could really go flatline. I would also be happy to pick up the Prism deck but I respect the decision to make it exclusive. I personally don’t want to buy some blink box to get it. I don’t collect heavy boxes. So I’m just buying the decks that makes sense to me and my only complaint is that the shipping is objectively overpriced and I can only hope that TGW will handle this with grace.

My plan as of the moment is to offer a credit in backerkit for overcharging based on what the shipping costs will be once the items are produced and ready to ship. That way everyone is protected and backers are getting what they paid for.

Unfortunately New Tiers are a nightmare and would result in more confusion than anything else.

[Bradius]

I feel it worthwhile to point out that in the last campaign, TGW also included the Wylenti deck as an add on for the exorbitant price of $6 (Edit: I have been corrected/fact checked - it was $9 - Even so...). One of my Wylenti decks at this moment is on my desk underneath an Eye of the Ocean gilded Solis deck.

I am going for a five deck set because I too really like the Gilded White Monarch deck, but I am honestly excited to get all five decks. I even added a second Imperial Black deck, because that is likely the deck I am going to open and enjoy. I will probably add at least one more Imperial black deck to my order before all is said and done. Keven's art is amazing and I am excited to get this set.

I didn't feel obliged or forced to get all the decks for Tale of the Tempest and nor do I feel so this time. In the end, there are quite a few folks that do want the full set. In my opinion, I think the box set is stunning and would make an awesome box set and display piece that is worth every bit of what it is priced at.

PS: I had been working on my above response prior to reading TGW's response above. Also, I love the handling of the Wylenti deck. It is my deck of choice to fondle. The deck has great weight and heft, but at the same time is smooth with exceptional glide. The texture on the back with the hot foil is also great. Just an all-around amazing deck to handle. Lotrek has indeed come a long way with the handling of his decks.

[Harvonsgard]

Nobody has to discuss anything, Omar. We heard your point and some simply like to agree to disagree and circlejerk a bit with like minded folks - this is a forum after all.

[TheGentlemanWake]

Nobody has to discuss anything, Omar. We heard your point and some simply like to agree to disagree and circlejerk a bit with like minded folks - this is a forum after all.

Sorry. I agree. My frustrations got the better of me. Despite the seemingly great campaign there is a tremendous amount of stress involved in running these things.

[STLBluesNut]

I really cannot believe we are still discussing this.

I don’t know what else I can say other than what I have said 4 or 5 times before. Without the red and blue decks there IS NO WHITE deck. I don’t know how else to articulate it. This is the structure I have chosen for this campaign. I will not be adjusting it for this campaign. My next campaign, BeetleBacks, is by nature a very different campaign but I can almost assuredly say the BeetleBacks Dynastinae will NOT be available on its own. With only 777 decks I cannot justify allowing folks to pledge for those decks without also pledging for the decks in lower tiers. I need to honor the POSSIBILTY that is being ignored here. There are backers who want them all.

I’m sure you all have heard of Occam’s razor? An axiom that goes like this; “the simplest solution is often the most likely” … what’s a simpler solution? That backers are biting the bullet to purchase something they really don’t want to have a deck they do want OR that maybe, just maybe, they like the box?! Art of play managed to sell 500 of the standards box set. I was one of them. So I know people who like the box set are out there.

the discussion isn't why or to change what is already done, this discussion is what we would have pledged if things were different. you have been pretty clear on why you structured things the way you did and it is highly appreciated. ''Without the red and blue decks there IS NO WHITE deck.'' well, to be fair, as it is, without the red, blue and black deck there is no white. it used to be without the red or blue. that is no longer the case.

im not sure whether or not there are people who want everything, including the box, exist was actually a question.

i am sure there could be more discussion about the quote above but nothing that wouldn't be going in circles at this point.