NOC Pro Edition [Nov. 23 13:00 EST]

[laitostarr777]

Oh yes, when it comes to marked decks these 2 factors are essential when it comes to buying the deck

1) how easy is it to read the marking

2) how easy is it to learn the system

There's a good reason why the DMC elites are one of the best marked decks out there and they keep improving the markings with each edition.

Vs the NOCs, which we've already discussed . Other decks that come to mind: Madison Kittens, where you literally need a magnifying glass to read the markings or Deland's deck where there are so many markings that it takes a while to learn it.

I could think of marked decks that fits with the category of: ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to use:

• MINT by 52Kards - The clock system marking, classic BUT the dots are just too small to read, and you can be confused very easily.
• White Lions/Black Lions by David Blaine - The name of the decks give hints that the marking lies with the lines - well... invisible thick lines. It's an optical illusion, so your eyes need to be trained to see it. The suits marking for these: you just need to paid attention to the split spades logo.
• Bicycle 1900s by Ellusionist - The cards may looked like aged paper, with all those foldings and smudges. These two elements are the marking system. You just have to memorize the folding lines and smudges in order to read it
• Roulette by Mechanic Industries - The back design resembles a roulette. The numbers are your key that you have to memorize. But, Fanimation makes it better

[EndersGame]

Roulette by Mechanic Industries - The back design resembles a roulette. The numbers are your key that you have to memorize. But, Fanimation makes it better

They may not be super practical as a regular marked deck, but the flip book animation of these are fantastic.

And they have a number of routines specific to these decks - the free video tutorials for these are in depth and outstanding. The guy behind these decks puts an enormous amount into them. Highly recommended!

Roulette Playing Cards

Fanimation Playing Cards

[shermjack]

Roulette by Mechanic Industries - The back design resembles a roulette. The numbers are your key that you have to memorize. But, Fanimation makes it better

They may not be super practical as a regular marked deck, but the flip book animation of these are fantastic.

And they have a number of routines specific to these decks - the free video tutorials for these are in depth and outstanding. The guy behind these decks puts an enormous amount into them. Highly recommended!

Roulette Playing Cards

Fanimation Playing Cards

My only comment about the Fanimation deck is that it seems like they copied the idea from Jack Brutus Penny and could have acknowledged this…unless I am wrong and someone did it before Jack

[EndersGame]

Which deck from Jack Brutus Penny are you referring to exactly?

[laitostarr777]

Sherman probably refered to Sensu Playing Cards. Wished I backed it, but there are other projects on my plate

[shermjack]

Which deck from Jack Brutus Penny are you referring to exactly?

Yes, it is Sense where the cards fan out to create an image, like Mechanic Industries does to create the roulette wheel. Jack's are much cooler, though

[EndersGame]

Yes, it is Sense where the cards fan out to create an image, like Mechanic Industries does to create the roulette wheel.

Do you mean like the Dragon Fanning Deck shown below?

If so, that idea has been around for a while already, and wasn't something that was an innovation with Jack.

[shermjack]

Richard, check out the photos of the cards in this thread...bottom of first page...

https://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.ph ... su#p208004

[EndersGame]

This is the image you're referring to?



The Sensu deck didn't innovate this concept, but it has been around previously, as I've demonstrated, right?

[shermjack]

From my understanding, what you demonstrated is deck made specifically for fanning, but is not a useable deck of playing cards, though I could be wrong as I don't own the deck. With Sensu, Jack took the idea of the edge fanning and combined it with the face cards of a deck of playing cards at an angle, so Sensu can be used as a playable deck. Mechanic Industries basically used the same card layout that Jack created, unless there is another deck, such as the Dragon Fanning deck (which I haven't seen in its entirety), that precedes Jack's with a similar layout that I am not aware of.

[EndersGame]

Ah yes, now I understand what you mean, shermjack. Sorry, I was slow to catch on. Thanks for your patience, and for your further explanation with the image.

The picture I showed of the Dragon Fanning Deck only showed part of the cards, and I didn't realize you were referring to what is going on with the entire faces. My bad - sorry.

The Dragon Fanning Deck does do something similar with the faces, including a tilted card outline. Here's a picture that shows three face cards:



Basically this lets you fan the faces one way and it shows only normal indices, and you fan the faces the other way and it shows the dragon.

So it is a somewhat similar concept as the Sensu deck, but works differently. The Dragon Fanning Deck is basically a one-way deck, and produces only a fan in one direction. The Sensu deck does indeed take that a step further, because it produces fans in both directions. And it also brings in something new by using the white space to incorporate a rectangular card, which is very clever.

In that regard, yes you're right, the Mechanic Industries deck does do something which the Sensu deck did before it. And I'm not aware of a deck that has done exactly that before the Sensu deck, so it would seem to me that those new and expanded elements are indeed innovations with Sensu, which are similar to the design used by the newer Mechanics deck. Again, my apologies for misunderstanding.

NB: The Dragon Fanning Deck was specifically created for fanning by DP Group Ltd in Japan, and is one of several different fanning decks they made. I'm not 100% sure what year it was made, but it has to be 2012 at the very latest, because there is a demo video for it that dates back to 2012, and the reviews I found for it all date from around 2013-2015. So of the three decks we're talking about (Dragon Fanning, Sensu, Mechanic's), the Dragon Fanning Deck does seem to be the first, and uses a similar concept, but not in the same way as the Sensu deck, which takes it further. There's more information about the Dragon Fanning Deck here: https://www.wopc.co.uk/japan/dragon-fanning-deck

[Daisho]

Came here looking for the latest "NOC NOC" "Who's there?" jokes. What in the name of ADHD did I stumble into?

[Reylek]

Off the NOC topic, but the Dragon Fanning decks go back WAY earlier than 2012. I bought my first one around 2000, give or take a couple years in either direction, and they weren't particularly new at that point.

As for the NOC full marking system. Yes, I was the person who came up with the idea on how to add value marks into the NOCs when we did the Alex Pandrea Signature version (EPCC print run). Randy Butterfield executed the design.

The one-way element to make sure the orientation is correct has been changed from what was used on the AP Signature deck to what's used on the NOC Luxury and NOC Pro. I'm not sure if it was Alex or someone else who made that change.

But the core system of using the outer and inner corners was my idea. It was more of a "Wow, nobody would believe you could have a fully marked deck when the design is one black line on a white background" kind of thing. It's definitely not the speediest or most practical marked deck out there, usage-wise.

[EndersGame]

As for the NOC full marking system. Yes, I was the person who came up with the idea on how to add value marks into the NOCs when we did the Alex Pandrea Signature version (EPCC print run). Randy Butterfield executed the design.

But the core system of using the outer and inner corners was my idea. It was more of a "Wow, nobody would believe you could have a fully marked deck when the design is one black line on a white background" kind of thing. It's definitely not the speediest or most practical marked deck out there, usage-wise.

Hat tip to you Kevin for the innovation. Like you say, it's not the most practical method. But it is fiendishly difficult for a muggle to figure out, super impressive, and a fun concept.

I like having this deck for the novelty value, because I think it is ingenious. If you told someone to design a deck which only had a plain border on the back and yet was fully marked for value and suit, they'd think it was an impossible ask. Well done Kevin!

[laitostarr777]

From my understanding, what you demonstrated is deck made specifically for fanning, but is not a useable deck of playing cards, though I could be wrong as I don't own the deck. With Sensu, Jack took the idea of the edge fanning and combined it with the face cards of a deck of playing cards at an angle, so Sensu can be used as a playable deck. Mechanic Industries basically used the same card layout that Jack created, unless there is another deck, such as the Dragon Fanning deck (which I haven't seen in its entirety), that precedes Jack's with a similar layout that I am not aware of.

IF only I got spare money to get Sensu X.X IF Only

But the core system of using the outer and inner corners was my idea. It was more of a "Wow, nobody would believe you could have a fully marked deck when the design is one black line on a white background" kind of thing. It's definitely not the speediest or most practical marked deck out there, usage-wise.

WHOA?! So it was you who came up for the NOC full marking? Cool! It is actually an improvement since the full marked NOC years ago

[rousselle]

Oh yes, when it comes to marked decks these 2 factors are essential when it comes to buying the deck

1) how easy is it to read the marking

2) how easy is it to learn the system

There's a good reason why the DMC elites are one of the best marked decks out there and they keep improving the markings with each edition.

Vs the NOCs, which we've already discussed . Other decks that come to mind: Madison Kittens, where you literally need a magnifying glass to read the markings or Deland's deck where there are so many markings that it takes a while to learn it.

I could think of marked decks that fits with the category of: ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to use:

• MINT by 52Kards - The clock system marking, classic BUT the dots are just too small to read, and you can be confused very easily.
• White Lions/Black Lions by David Blaine - The name of the decks give hints that the marking lies with the lines - well... invisible thick lines. It's an optical illusion, so your eyes need to be trained to see it. The suits marking for these: you just need to paid attention to the split spades logo.
• Bicycle 1900s by Ellusionist - The cards may looked like aged paper, with all those foldings and smudges. These two elements are the marking system. You just have to memorize the folding lines and smudges in order to read it
• Roulette by Mechanic Industries - The back design resembles a roulette. The numbers are your key that you have to memorize. But, Fanimation makes it better

Also impossible to use: Sharps, by EPCC. I've STILL, to this day, never been able to see the marks, and that's even when I have the key to decipher them. I am under the impression that either my eyesight will simply never allow it (and my eyesight was still 20/20 when I first bought them), or that the whole experiment really didn't quite work. I have yet to find anybody say they can actually see the markings.

Oh, and even if you can see them... not an easily understandable system. Although, if you could see them, I think they would be.

I always liked the idea of Sharps, even so. But, in practice, they're just a regular deck for me.

Anyone else?

Also, kudos to Kevin for the design of the fully marked NOC. Not super practical under many circumstances for obvious reasons, but for certain magic tricks I can still see this system being quite effective, and the idea itself is simply genius.

[EndersGame]

Also impossible to use: Sharps, by EPCC. I've STILL, to this day, never been able to see the marks, and that's even when I have the key to decipher them. I am under the impression that either my eyesight will simply never allow it (and my eyesight was still 20/20 when I first bought them), or that the whole experiment really didn't quite work. I have yet to find anybody say they can actually see the markings.

Oh, and even if you can see them... not an easily understandable system. Although, if you could see them, I think they would be.

I always liked the idea of Sharps, even so. But, in practice, they're just a regular deck for me.

Anyone else?

I've had exactly the same experience with the Sharps.

From what I gather, each card has a pattern you're supposed to see, corresponding to what you see in the image shown here. I was told that the first and last card (left to right, then top to bottom) are Jokers, and the rest are in standard new deck order (Ace to King of Spades, Ace to King of Diamonds, King to Ace of Clubs, and King to Ace of Hearts).



I could never see it. I tried. I really tried. I squinted. I closed my eyes. I opened my eyes. I looked with one eye. With the other eye. I looked from close. I looked from far away. I stood on my head. I could never see anything.

Maybe I was just doing something wrong. But my Sharps deck was subsequently promoted to being used for card games and building card houses.