P52 Deck of the Year awards

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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by GandalfPC »

Bradius wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:08 pm Inception? Really? Ooookay...I guess....really?
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by MaxPower »

OK, I’ll ask the obvious question; were votes limited to 1 cast per category per P52 member? Several of the results are now suspiciously indicative of ballot stuffing.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by TheGentlemanWake »

I’d love to see awards nominated and voted on by a panel of artists, designers and producers. Because otherwise awards become popularity contests.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by Harvonsgard »

I guess best use of colour for most simply means multi-colour/bright.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by hsbc »

TheGentlemanWake wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:52 pm I’d love to see awards nominated and voted on by a panel of artists, designers and producers. Because otherwise awards become popularity contests.
It's not exactly that but the 52 Plus Joker Diamond Awards are similar
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by montenzi »

Bradius wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:08 pm Inception? Really? Ooookay...I guess....really?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by Strag »

These awards are as appropriate as the Baseball All-Star game. Very possible to be ballot stuffing or even people just looking for freebies, as was absolutely the case last year. Having a panel of knowledgable representative people select the nominees and winners makes the most sense, similar to the Oscars, Emmys, Hugos, Baseball Hall of Fame etc.

I brought this up last year but it got taken wrong as people who did a lot of hard work felt they were being unappreciated (which wasn't the case at all, but it's hard not to conflate the two things, I get it it).

I voted this year but it will be the last time.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by TheGentlemanWake »

Look I have no problem with popularity. But when decks are winning for categories that don’t make sense it’s unfortunate. Also wish the winners were more diversity in the winners.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by bdawg923 »

These awards are an absolute mess.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by IAmTheChin »

Obligatory long post. TLDR below.
I just wanted to answer a few questions so you guys can see the approach to this year’s DOTYs. While there’s been enormous support for this ceremony across other platforms I do understand that in this forum of origination reception is more critical to favor the original. This contest will continue to iterate over time as it grows responding to incoming feedback, this year was no different. In response to last year’s feedback the top three recurring requests:

1) INCENTIVIZED VOTING
No gift incentive was announced this year for voters. We didn’t know if we were going to reach that many sponsors audience side last minute. But when we got it we popped it in only during the winner announcements (post voting) to avoid “ballot stuffing”. Any voting that occurred was simply by motivation of the voters themselves.
2) OPEN NOMINATION TO COMMUNITY
People requested the ability to nominate decks that they didn’t see in the voting phase last year and wanted to be part of the process. I thought this was a totally appropriate trajectory towards for the awards. Unfortunately the problem was two fold.
People when given the chance didn’t actually nominate that many decks. Despite the amount of nominations very few did any fill ins. It seems like this is one of those features people want but don’t do. As rousselle mentioned above, it’s easier for most voters to riff on an existing list than come up with entries. It was completely unsustainable to have a single person come up with all the nominations for you guys to choose from so we tested out a transition to an open source community vote. The last moderator literally burned out because you guys kept pushing her to do this. It didn’t work and we’re happy to reverse it. The goal is a more sustainable version of the nomination section for volunteers on the backend.
3) BETTER ROLLOUT/PRESENTATION
People wanted a “cooler” rollout. Some people liked the live and others didn’t (which is a shame given how much extra work it is to do separate videos). I experimented with a paced release video announcement. The videos were almost unanimously favored in the messages and comments received so far. This will most likely stay for next year if I can find the time.

The above is where I come from in regards to how I approached this year’s DOTYs based on existing feedback at the time. Feedback on the current DOTYs not addressed above seems to boil down to 2 things:

1) MORE SELECTION
We made nominations completely open but transitioned to top 5 nominee spots for final voting. This was done to lower the work load on prepping each deck page entry with single card scans, descriptions, tags, etc. In an ideal world every deck page would be full quality so one could just manage interface but often it is not. Based on this year’s test I will be reintroducing editorial nomination phases. It will still be open for the community to nominate but will also have top down editorial input (bringing it back to people here at the forum for those that want to volunteer) for more choice. As rousselle mentioned before he also wanted to help flush out the nomination list but got sidetracked. Again, all of this is volunteer and we’re try to balance personal stuff with the workload of the event. The better we automate this going forward, the less slip ups like this we’ll incur.
People LOVE visual choice. It’ll be more work but I think getting 10-20 of each category will be more in tune of the expectations of what people expect in the voting period.
The differences between the nomination and voting phases were not clear for voters. Expectations it seems were that pictures should be available during both phases. This means that the nomination phase somehow needs to show pictures before an entry is even nominated. Many people just searched ‘2021’ in P52 and used that as a way to see what was out there. But we may need to turn that search page into a voting vehicle to nominate from that list for easier convenience. Nominations would filter out to editorial action which could then set up the final 10-20 or use the top 10-20 voted nominees. (Not to beat a dead horse but this was supposed to be a build for this year but I also had some personal stuff us that derailed everything for several months on my end. Anyone that made it to nomination that would like to opt out is of course able to.
2) VOTING STRUCTURE
The DOTYs since origination has always been a people’s choice bottom up structure (where voters decide the winner) with top down (editorial) nomination. This is a valid structure and one that fits in the current marketplace. Top down where a panel of judges vote is also another valid structure, but one I don’t pursue because the 52 Plus Joker Diamond Awards does it so well. I have nothing but support for them and there is no point in creating two awards of the same structure that would create unnecessary competition. Each have their values.
Going forward if we keep bottom up voting we must then accept that it is democratic in nature which invites all the pros and cons with it. The used term ‘popularity contest’ is a bit of a misnomer because it is quite literally the nature of ALL voting vehicles. This is true even on a board of judges or small forum in which one deck will be more popular by definition than another during an internal vote.
It’s possible the thing that rubs people wrong is the element of “calling for supporters” where one person’s call to action can have one vote turn to many. But that’s also the name of the game as well for brand growth. The whole point of social media and subscription/patreon packages is to literally build a following of supporters to support your art whether through sales or in this case through voting.
When the balance is off people wonder about voting security but realistically the answer is as simple as which people actually made the effort to ask for votes. Voter turnout is one of the top priorities for any election-- political or card related. I get that Inception running the gauntlet here felt odd for those who weren’t on social seeing them work as hard as they did, but the simple solution was that they had the young start-up energy to ask for support. I thought Kings Wild should have placed higher as well but they literally didn’t mention voting at all on their page, just stories. If they had chosen to make an effort it would be no surprise if they swept, but he didn’t. Results are simply artist and voter action or lack of action. Even I forgot in the heat of managing everything to make a post on my Seasons account to try for best tuck which I’m kicking myself about.
At the end of the day I think no one likes a land slide sports game. We want that nail biting exciting closer to an event that brings excitement. But when it’s not that, it doesn’t mean anything fishy happened, but that one person at the moment of voting was a hotter item at the time. Some of you may remember when Lotrek swept (deservingly so) in a previous DOTY and some members were complaining on how ridiculous and rigged the sweep was behind PMs. Even then it was not.

OVERALL
Trajectory towards growth for the amount of voters (both new and recurring) have grown as well as the support from the grand prize sponsors raising to 5,000 euros from Cartamundi and a consistent but vocal support of $2,000 from legends. For the majority on all voter, artist, and sponsor sides the support for the awards have been positive. In terms of recognizing and spreading awareness of decks that you may not have known about, these above action steps of more visualized choices, editorial nomination phases, and community choice final vote phases should be in tune with what the spirit of these awards are for going for. Honestly if I didn’t check the forums I would have thought things went okay, just revert the nomination feedback and execute a larger selection and we'd be back on track.

TLDR;
We’re tried out things and some worked and some didn’t. The fixes of this year’s feedback are simple to implement for next year. We’ll be reintroducing editorial nomination with improved visual nomination forms and increase selection for final phase voting. If possible we’ll keep video announcements and continue to minimize voter gifts. Even if this isn’t your cup of tea, please be kind to others who do enjoy the event. We’re volunteers so be nice.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by hsbc »

Thanks for all the work you put into this Alex - last year was also full of drama, we even scared PipChick off the site :( :( I don't agree with some of the nominees or winners either, but does it really matter? I come to UC because this is where the adults are, can we act like it??
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by Bradius »

Thanks for your comments Alex.

I do appreciate that this award is, for better and worse, a bit of a popularity contest in the sense that the artist that gets the most votes coming in, wins. I am also glad we have taken out the big prizes just for voting. It was even a bit interesting last year as one of my prizes was a popular gilded KWP subscription deck which was first won by someone out of the country and had no interest in splitting the cost with me for my shipping cost, so the team kindly did a redraw and I was able to ship off the prize, which was again overseas. So, I am sure even with the prizes a lot of voters were voting not for prizes anyway.

Honestly, there have been more than a few winners that I voted for and am glad they won that have been announced. There have been others that were not surprising given their large following. Then there are a few that just had me shaking my head in confusion. My confusion at the winners is not a criticism of the organizers of the contest, or the creators. Honestly, it is not even of those that voted for these winners. I am just surprised by the result is all.

I appreciate that in some cases it may have come down to some creators hustling voting among their loyal fan base. Your thoughtful explanation did help me better understand how this can be important especially for a young brand. What is kind of funny to me is that on a purely personal level I wasn't happy to get those requests to vote for a particular nominee. I guess I am a bit of a purist and don't like anyone trying to prod me to vote for them. I'll vote how I want, thank you very much.

Thank you again Alex for sponsoring this award and to the volunteers that helped make this year's DOTY happen.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by bdawg923 »

Ye my comment wasn't meant as a slight against the people running thr event. More so against the winners. Inception winning nearly every category because they have a lot of followers is just dumb. Rookie deck should've been jamie's but because he has 600 followers on curio and inception has 12000, they win. That just doesn't make sense to me
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by Harvonsgard »

Shoulda, woulda, coulda... 😃
Inception is a cool deck. Tastes differ.
I always wonder how serious people take awards? Like do people think it's more than a random label?
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by BaconWise »

bdawg923 wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:04 pm Ye my comment wasn't meant as a slight against the people running thr event. More so against the winners. Inception winning nearly every category because they have a lot of followers is just dumb. Rookie deck should've been jamie's but because he has 600 followers on curio and inception has 12000, they win. That just doesn't make sense to me
Thanks for the love! It was a bit of a David vs Goliath scenario, but I have to hand it to Runit for curating a strong following over 10+ years on the scene. As cliché as it may sound, I am overwhelmed just to have been considered for any of the categories I placed in and it feels fantastic to contribute a bit to the community with my bizarre deck of cards :ugdance:

I think it's never said enough after these events wrap up, but THANK YOU to Alex and Nurul for getting things done this year. As ever, the award presentations and branding throughout the DotYs looked SHARP and I know there was a ton of work behind the scenes. I will certainly take the time to offer a helping hand this winter when things start ramping up again. Amazing words, Alex. It's obvious you have a clear grasp of the big picture and your explanation is a great way to break down the complexities that are difficult to see.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by Strag »

My only point (which might be getting lost a bit) is that these aren't the "best of" awards and I don't consider them as such. These are much more the "People's choice" or even "Social media" awards. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion and as Alex said, it might be that the 52+J awards are a more curated version. Each has their own benefits.

What I think is great is to see good decks being recognised and both award types (as well as the earlier bracket competition) are doing a good job of making that happen.

Playing cards are different things to different people. We have magicians, players, cardistry, tuckists, freethepips and so on as parts of our hobby/business. There is room for all of them to be a part.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by Harvonsgard »

Strag wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:05 am My only point (which might be getting lost a bit) is that these aren't the "best of" awards...
I get that point but I doubt there would be a close to unison definition of what best of is.
I've seen choices made by the voters at the 52+J Diamond Awards, past UC Deck of the Year, P52 Deck of the Year or e.g. kardify's list that I shook me head about in disbelief.

Thanks to Alex and the team for putting on the show.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by bdawg923 »

Strag wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:05 am My only point (which might be getting lost a bit) is that these aren't the "best of" awards and I don't consider them as such. These are much more the "People's choice" or even "Social media" awards. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion and as Alex said, it might be that the 52+J awards are a more curated version. Each has their own benefits.

What I think is great is to see good decks being recognised and both award types (as well as the earlier bracket competition) are doing a good job of making that happen.

Playing cards are different things to different people. We have magicians, players, cardistry, tuckists, freethepips and so on as parts of our hobby/business. There is room for all of them to be a part.
I agree that people's choice would be a more fitting name than deck of the year. or maybe the Instagram awards, presented by inception.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by Timmargh »

I want to add my thanks to Alex and the others for running the awards.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by bdawg923 »

Also wow inception got robbed of doty /s
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by Bradius »

Well, DOTY was announced. Congrats Lorenzo for well-earned recognition for DOTY 2021 for the 52+ Joker 2021 Annual Deck. I would also like to give a shout out to Jackson for his Alice in Wonderland deck, which got my vote as DOTY. I loved the totally new look he made for this deck, which shows such design passion. I really think this is one of his best works ever. Lee McKinsey also a worthy recognition for his Royals deck. I'll post my Royals haul before too long as it was some of the decks I was pulling out not too long ago. Lee did such a great job on that deck as well. The Gentleman Wake and Lotrek also for their 3rd place finish in the 2021 DOTY for The Tempest. No surprises by me on this award.

As Timmargh said above, My thanks as well to Alex and the others that made the huge effort to organize and run the awards this year.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by rousselle »

Associated videos:

2021 BEST PRINT/INNOVATION WINNERS
1) 52 Plus Joker 2021 by Stockholm17
2) Visions by @woundedcorner
3) Anatomica Alterna by @Curio_playingcards and @aminurkari



2021 BEST CARDISTRY DECK WINNERS
1) NEBULA by @emilysleights52
2) Echo x Smoke by @bucktwins and @lotusinhand
3) ARW v2 by @luke_wadey_design



2021 BEST ROOKIE DECK
1) Inception by @Runitdecks and @dhondraws
2) Visions by @WoundedCorner
3) Anatomica by @Curio_playingcards and @aminurkari



2021 DECK OF THE YEAR WINNERS
1) 52 Plus Joker 2021 by @Stockholm17 and @52plusjoker
2) Alice in Wonderland by @kingswildproject
3) Royales by @kings&crooks
3) Tied Tale of Tempest by @thegentlemanwake



Some of these videos will include thoughts from the winners.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by EndersGame »

Here's a complete list of the winners in all the categories:

2021 DECK OF THE YEAR
1) 52 Plus Joker 2021 by Stockholm17 and 52 Plus Joker
2) Alice in Wonderland by Kings Wild Project
3) tied - Royales by Kings & Crooks
3) tied - Tale of Tempest by The Gentleman Wake & Lotrek

Image

2021 BEST ROOKIE DECK
1) Inception by RunIt Decks and Dhon Ragadio
2) Visions by Wounded Corner and Arcadia
3) Anatomica by Curio Playing Cards and Amal Nur Karim

2021 BEST CARDISTRY DECK
1) Nebula by Emily Sleights 52
2) Echo x Smoke by Dan & Dave Buck and Lotus in Hand
3) ARW v2 by Luke Wadey

2021 BEST PRINT/INNOVATION
1) 52 Plus Joker 2021 by Stockholm17 and Expert PCC
2) Visions by Wounded Corner and Arcadia
3) Anatomica Alterna by Curio Playing Cards and Amal Nur Karim

2021 BEST USE OF COLOR
1) Inception by RunIt Decks and Dhon Ragadio
2) Butterfly Spring by Stefan Eriksson, Ondrej Psenicka, and Kovandova
3) Grateful Dead by Theory11

2021 BEST MAGIC DECK
1) Butterfly Border Series by Stefan Eriksson, Ondrej Psenicka, and Tereza Kovandová
2) Royales by Kings & Crooks
3) Inception by RunIt Decks and Dhon Ragadio

2021 BEST COURT CARDS
1) Inception by RunIt Decks and Dhon Ragadio
2) Alice in Wonderland by Kings Wild Project
3) Anatomica by Curio Playing Cards and Amal Nur Karim

2021 BEST GRAPHIC DECK
1) Bold. by Elettra Deganello
2) Sip to Suit by Art of Caffeination
3) 2049 Karma by Adrian Valenzuela (AVTones)

2021 DOTY BEST ACE
1) Harry Potter by Theory11
2) Alice in Wonderland by Kings Wild Project
3) Anatomica by Curio Playing Cards and Amal Nur Karim

2021 BEST BACK DESIGN
1) Inception by RunIt Decks and Dhon Ragadio
2) 52 Plus Joker 2021 by Stockholm17
3) Nebula by Emily Sleights 52

2021 BEST JOKER
1) Alice in Wonderland by Kings Wild Project
2) Anatomica by Curio Playing Cards and Amal Nur Karim
3) Gods of Egypt by Dhamas Aditya and Riffle Shuffle

2021 BEST TUCK
1) 52 Plus Joker 2021 by Stockholm17
2) Hummingbird Feathers by Marvelous Decks
3) Harry Potter by Theory11
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Eric Lee
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by Eric Lee »

Thanks Alex for taking time to explain what happened! Trying to see the big picture and the 2 P52 DOTY, I have this to add to the conversation.

I would say the P52 DOTY is improving ,thanks to Alex's and Nurul's hard work and taking feedback into consideration.

We had 2 new/relatively new designers highlighted. Evgenia who is from Russia and Runit, from Phillipines. I believe very few outside of their followers and countryfolk have heard of them. They really got great exposure from this. So this helps to highlight newbies from all over the world to get exposure that they wouldn't have otherwise.

I'm sure Jocu, Curio and the other new designers have gained from being in the DOTY as well. (would be nice if Jocu and Baconwise can verify if this is true and being in the P52 DOTY has helped their brand)

In the award that really mattered, best deck, the best of designers and decks still won out in the top 3. So it shows that despite having such a high number of followers, the top 3 decks were all deserving to be there.

So I would say the P52 DOTY is really serving the playing card community overall in a way by giving great exposure to all involved.

But hey, I doubt there'll be that much buzz here and on IG if everyone we expected won and Zhade's Dark Kingdom, Runit's Inception didn't sweep so many awards unexpectadly! So it's a good thing after all, no?
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by EndersGame »

TheGentlemanWake wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:52 pm I’d love to see awards nominated and voted on by a panel of artists, designers and producers. Because otherwise awards become popularity contests.
I know at least one designer who told me that he/she received a lot of emails from other producers openly asking to vote for them.

It would undoubtedly compromise the results somewhat, if some creators were actively soliciting votes and asking people to vote for them.

I don't have a simple answer for solving the problem of creators who game the system, and perhaps get a level of publicity and success greater than is deserved. Even so, it's nice to see these awards recognize and nominate some terrific decks.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by Harvonsgard »

I still think it's weird established designers can become best rookie (or in this case 2nd) when they produce a deck for someone else.
Let's me think about commisioning Jackson and crown myself best rookie 🤷🏿‍♀️.
You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that’s being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world.

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rousselle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:52 pmI very much want this in my collection, but at long last... I have to stop the insanity.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by EndersGame »

Harvonsgard wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:15 pm I still think it's weird established designers can become best rookie (or in this case 2nd) when they produce a deck for someone else.
Let's me think about commisioning Jackson and crown myself best rookie 🤷🏿‍♀️.
Good point. Who actually designed the Visions deck?
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by GandalfTheWhite »

By arcadia playing cards (Christian Ellingstad?).
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by TheGentlemanWake »

Yeah, I don't think Parlour was ever included in the rookie deck conversation. So the rules are a bit ambiguous.
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Re: P52 Deck of the Year awards

Unread post by rousselle »

I'm inclined to agree that it's an odd choice to give best rookie on the basis of the producer rather than designer, but each voter will interpret the meaning of the award according to their own perspective.
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