The Successor by TGW/Kevin Cantrell

[brownsl]

I am not a box guy even if they look cool due to difficulty of display/storage. Hopefully, whatever is inside the box is available without the box.

[GandalfPC]

Perhaps there will be a higher tier that includes catacombs being dug beneath the house to store it - I’ll find a space for it I imagine, but I’m running out of space fast

[TheGentlemanWake]

I am not a box guy even if they look cool due to difficulty of display/storage. Hopefully, whatever is inside the box is available without the box.

There are currently six decks in the campaign plans.
Regal Red and Royal Blue. Which are the “standard” variants
The Imperial Black and Gold LTD which features cold foil
The Monarch White LTD which features cold
Foil, gilded edge and metal sculpt on tuck (see image below)
The Dynastinae Rex which features alternate back design, cold foil and gilded edges.
The Dynastinae Rex Prism which features alternate back design, holo cold foil, holofoil gilding and a metal plate on tuck.

All six decks are included in the sarcophagus. The Rightful Heir tier includes all of the above. It is the only way to get prism deck and the sarcophagus.

[GandalfPC]

Would really love to see the industry swing back to three or less decks per deck…. One can argue for colorway releases, but two standard and four bespoke is on the heavy side for representation in a collection

I would do the same I did for Tempest and just pick and choose - but in this case it appears I will need to consider the whole shebang - hopefully for the last time…

Looking over the card images in the early part of the thread I can say I will have to take a hard look at both the cards and the top tier price before making a decision on this one…

[brownsl]

I am not a box guy even if they look cool due to difficulty of display/storage. Hopefully, whatever is inside the box is available without the box.

There are currently six decks in the campaign plans.
Regal Red and Royal Blue. Which are the “standard” variants
The Imperial Black and Gold LTD which features cold foil
The Monarch White LTD which features cold
Foil, gilded edge and metal sculpt on tuck (see image below)
The Dynastinae Rex which features alternate back design, cold foil and gilded edges.
The Dynastinae Rex Prism which features alternate back design, holo cold foil, holofoil gilding and a metal plate on tuck.

All six decks are included in the sarcophagus. The Rightful Heir tier includes all of the above. It is the only way to get prism deck and the sarcophagus.97D2DFD4-AAC9-4397-9D7E-39B4069B3669.jpeg

Thank you for the info.

[joeblow]

I was happy to back the previous campaigns to the max but will probably sit this out. The massive box jumps the shark for me as a playing card collector. Good luck.

[TheGentlemanWake]

Would really love to see the industry swing back to three or less decks per deck…. One can argue for colorway releases, but two standard and four bespoke is on the heavy side for representation in a collection

I would do the same I did for Tempest and just pick and choose - but in this case it appears I will need to consider the whole shebang - hopefully for the last time…

Looking over the card images in the early part of the thread I can say I will have to take a hard look at both the cards and the top tier price before making a decision on this one…

See, i'm of the opposite ilk. Simple colorways are what bother me. I want to feel like every deck in a collection is worth owning and unique even among it's sibling decks. Hence why Tempest has so many decks (7 total) yet they all feel different. Adding features like foil, gilding, alternate designs and sleeves go a long way. I don't think the Tempest Dynastinae will ever be confused with the Dusk edition for instance. In fact, in a lot of ways they feel like different decks altogether.

Multiple releases are generally commonplace nowadays. Some I do think have taken it too far (the Jerry's Nuggets come to mind).

[TheGentlemanWake]

I was happy to back the previous campaigns to the max but will probably sit this out. The massive box jumps the shark for me as a playing card collector. Good luck.

Totally understand. I am in the process of reducing the size of the sarcophagus by 10%. Waiting on the next prototype for that. And there will be 5 decks available that don't come in the 'massive' box so hopefully we'll see you support one way or another as it's always appreciated!

[rousselle]

Here's a peek into my mindset at present; it doesn't necessarily reflect anyone else's mindset, nor mine from the past nor mine from the future. That said: *all* collectors of *anything* have a little bit of OCD, and some collectors have a little bit more OCD than others. Sometimes, the level of OCD can reach the point of people wanting to "collect the whole set" (aka, "completists.")

Also, *most* collectors have some kind of limitation on their budget.

As for me, my budget is more limited these days than it has been in the past, and my OCD is learning how to cope with me being somewhat less of a completist than I have been in the past. BUT.

One of the strengths of your campaigns has been that the different decks are not typically mere recolors of each other. You start with a couple/few color variants, then graduate to different designs and/or manufacturing process and/or bling. Each element of the deck evolves and grows and circles back. Just as your deck's theme has a story (like, literally, you have a story surrounding the decks), the evolution of the decks themselves presents a kind of story. Time passes, the quality of the light changes, and the sophistication of the decks grow.

Your projects are not the only ones that have this kind of meta-story going on, and it is exactly these kinds of projects that I find the most exciting. The most... delicious. Gio and Lorenzo and Montenzi and RJ have done this. Randy has done this. Jackson has done this. Steve Minty. There have been others. The active members of UC recognize these names because they produce projects that scratch a special kind of itch. The meta-story itch. I remember when Gio came out with his Delirium: The Lost Decks and I pulled out the original Prism deck that had come before and comparing them in turn, looking at the evolution of the design (not to mention his growth as an artist). Yummy.

The fact that the final deck or two of such a run would be more expensive than the others is not a surprise: there's more design work and more bling associated; sometimes, even a different manufacturer and additional tuck work. Plus, these will often be produced in fewer numbers, so the pricing doesn't benefit as much from economies of scale. We all know this, and those of us willing to pay extra for the more limited decks will do so.

And, if the project creator only sells the more advanced decks as part of a set, well... some collectors will grumble, because really, they just want the crown jewels without all the baubles, but for a collector like I am right now, the plan was to get one or two or three of each, anyway, so making it part of a set isn't the worst thing in the world.

But.

When you require the collector to buy not just a set with a few copies each of all the previous variants *plus* all the accessories (coins, pins, stickers, keys, books, boxes, bowling pins, candle sticks, lead pipes, chia pets) to the point where that set's cost is approaching half a grand... now you have finally pierced the veil of the fantasy story surrounding your cards. Now, the suspension of disbelief needs to be put on hold while the collector like I am right now has to look into his/her wallet and look into his/her soul: I really want to follow the story to it's conclusion, but is it really worth *that many* slices of avocado toast to see how the story ends when the story is really about 56 pieces of pretty paperboard?

You can understand why, at this point, even more collectors will whine about the whole thing. You've shattered the illusion of what they are doing. You've shone a spotlight on their crazy, and as much as they still want to go to Crazy Town, they just realized that the clown car they're riding in isn't a chariot but a pumpkin, and the ride is no longer quite as fun.

They (I) still want to scratch that itch. But, now, scratching that itch is getting painful.

And, if we question the price of seeing the final installment of this epic series, and our devotion to this story is revealed to be just a bit crazy... then why invest any of our money (or crazy) in the earlier parts of the epic? If I can't enjoy the final piece of your epic story, why even start the journey?

Omar, you don't owe me anything. You can absolutely set your pricing however you want; you can make the final deck as exclusive as you want. Unlike my fellow collectors, I'm not going to stamp my foot and pout and tell you you're a bad person for wanting money in exchange for the entertainment you are providing.

Because of the nature of my crazy, I really, really want to suspend my disbelief and follow your story all the way to the conclusion. I want to hold that magnificent magnum opus of a final deck in my hands. Alas, if the pricing/bundling situation is the same as previous campaigns, I will have to sit this campaign out altogether.


TL; dr: As Harvonsgard has quoted me saying elsewhere: "I very much want this in my collection, but at long last... I have to stop the insanity."

[shermjack]

There are currently SIX decks in the campaign plans.
Regal Red and Royal Blue. Which are the “standard” variants
The Imperial Black and Gold LTD which features cold foil
The Monarch White LTD which features cold
Foil, gilded edge and metal sculpt on tuck (see image below)
The Dynastinae Rex which features alternate back design, cold foil and gilded edges.
The Dynastinae Rex Prism which features alternate back design, holo cold foil, holofoil gilding and a metal plate on tuck.

All six decks are included in the sarcophagus. The Rightful Heir tier includes all of the above. It is the only way to get prism deck and the sarcophagus.97D2DFD4-AAC9-4397-9D7E-39B4069B3669.jpeg

I count 7 decks again

[brownsl]

I think the Imperial Black and Gold LTD is one deck.

[TheGentlemanWake]

Hey Allan, you bring up A LOT of valid points. And I totally appreciate and see where you are coming from.

Let me shine a light on the creator perspective for a moment. As I have done many a time. (Remembering of course that I too am a collector)

I've spent a CONSIDERABLE amount of money and time R&Ding the design of the Sarcophagus. Maybe that was foolish of me to think that an extravagant high quality display piece was something people wanted in their collection. Yet Steve Minty recently put out a plastic pyramind with laser cut wood and LEDs and it sold out in seconds. Lorenzo Patreon package costs about a half grand and included a walnut box. Eye of the Ocean too has a walnut box. The Standards Box was sold out fast the few times its been put on sale (the last time at $350 or so--and that's with 6 recolors of a standard deck). My point is that all signs indicate that Box Sets sell out.

So I put all of this time an energy into something like the Sarcophagus and then make it an add-on...

Let's say for argument sake that I were to open up the Prism deck to the general public. And all 400 were snatched up in a blink of an eye... even at the $135 price tag (or whatever it ends up being). so what happens when someone willing to spend $250 for the box gets their box with 6 slots and doesn't have a chance at the prism deck--because some scalper wants to open 5 KS accounts and buy up the Prisms since their is no barrier for entry? (They can see the Tempest Prism selling for 200% markup on ebay after all--why wouldn't this one be any different?)

So Now customers who ARE willing to buy the BOX are angry.

Ok, so, whats a solution?... don't limit the Prism. Well, we all understand the laws of supply and demand. Luxury brands around the world--it can be argued--would make the same amount of profit they make now if they simply reduced the price of their items and let more people buy them... but that's not how the market works. Saturated markets lead to stagnant growth. For the record, each box will cost a SIGNIFICANT amount of money to produce. Zinc Alloy cast sculpts with gold-tone plating that weigh 2.5 lbs are not cheap to make. The box has metal inlay with piano black lacquer coating that takes SEVERAL steps to create. And you can imagine what shipping costs from China to fulfillment centers will cost in todays post-covid environment. Maybe what I can do is say 500 prisms will be made... but only 100 of them are available outside of the Box set. Does this solve the problem? Maybe for 100 people. But then what happens to person 101? 140? 230?

I've given up all hope in terms of pleasing everybody. It's not gonna happen--baring giving away everything for free. I'm running a business. I need to look out for the best interests of that business in order to understand what are the best course of action. Some choices can be made to alleviate stress. For instance, I'm not 'unlocking' any of the 6 aforementioned decks through stretch goals. I have heeded the advice of many people on UC and I'm going to be upfront about what's available and where. No need to sign on at any time other than at the launch to get Deck X, y or Z. Also, I've increased the number of prism decks from 200 to 400 because quite frankly the demand for Tempest Prisms exceeded the run. I am eliminating the SPlit Brick from the top tier because some people said they don't want 4 multiples (you can still add it as an add-on--it will have a custom brick box of course). All of these changes I've done at the behest of backers.

Look I know money is scarce at times. My rent for instance went up $750(!!!!) a month. And I do NOT live in an extravagant or affluent neighborhood... the reality is PRICES ARE GOING UP. $500 used to be MORE money than it is today. There will always be price creep. Production costs have gone up significantly and I've been documented as reporting that fulfillment costs were more than double what we anticipated.

I ONLY RELEASE 1 CAMPAIGN A YEAR (if I'm lucky). My goal is eventually get to two a year. Or at least one every 9 months. I'm not GIO or Jackson... designing decks left and right. I'm going to keep doing what's gotten me this far. The only thing I can do is hope that customers understand that, yes, the barrier for entry is high, but my releases are limited. SO I tell them in advance as much as possible--I've been teasing this and talking about it extensively for months--hopefully enough time to come to a decision and if that decision is to back the campaign, i hope 4 months or so is enough for them to save for something that they will be proud to own. The Tempest top tier was $415. The Successor will prob be about $500.

[TheGentlemanWake]

I think the Imperial Black and Gold LTD is one deck.

CORRECT. Sorry I made a typo... Should be Imperial Black & Gold. The ampersand makes a difference. It's one deck.

[Harvonsgard]

I didn't back Parlour due to Cartamundi (too soft for me personally) and not being overly into the back design.
I didn't back Tempest due to having to buy multiple decks (and thereof multiples even) I simply didn't want (the standards) to get decks I wanted.
I won't back Successor due to my fatigue about seeing the same features over and over again (diffraction foil/gilding ... )
I really don't wanna knock creators for what they are doing but I really can't see past what feels like a formula aplied. And I'm aware that this is somewhat unjust, because I really believe you wanna make every project special and destinct from the previous one.

I hope enough people will be into the box. The premium quality approach is something I really like to see in the scene just paired with decks that peak my interest the next time. I'll keep me fingers crossed for the project you plan with Widakk .

[shermjack]

I think the Imperial Black and Gold LTD is one deck.

CORRECT. Sorry I made a typo... Should be Imperial Black & Gold. The ampersand makes a difference. It's one deck.

There are 2 standard decks (Red & Blue), so to me, that's 7 decks

[TheGentlemanWake]

I think the Imperial Black and Gold LTD is one deck.

CORRECT. Sorry I made a typo... Should be Imperial Black & Gold. The ampersand makes a difference. It's one deck.

There are 2 standard decks (Red & Blue), so to me, that's 7 decks

1 red
1 blu
1 black
1 white
1 green
1 purple

6.

Regal Red and Royal Blue. Which are the “standard” variants
The Imperial Black & Gold LTD which features cold foil
The Monarch White LTD which features cold
Foil, gilded edge and metal sculpt on tuck (see image below)
The Dynastinae Rex which features alternate back design, cold foil and gilded edges.
The Dynastinae Rex Prism which features alternate back design, holo cold foil, holofoil gilding and a metal plate on tuck.

[shermjack]

I think the Imperial Black and Gold LTD is one deck.

CORRECT. Sorry I made a typo... Should be Imperial Black & Gold. The ampersand makes a difference. It's one deck.

There are 2 standard decks (Red & Blue), so to me, that's 7 decks

Apologies! My mistake as I mis-interpreted the Monarch White being two decks as its description was in two lines.

Let's say for argument sake that I were to open up the Prism deck to the general public. And all 400 were snatched up in a blink of an eye... even at the $135 price tag (or whatever it ends up being). so what happens when someone willing to spend $250 for the box gets their box with 6 slots and doesn't have a chance at the prism deck--because some scalper wants to open 5 KS accounts and buy up the Prisms since their is no barrier for entry? (They can see the Tempest Prism selling for 200% markup on ebay after all--why wouldn't this one be any different?)

So Now customers who ARE willing to buy the BOX are angry.

Ok, so, whats a solution?... don't limit the Prism. Well, we all understand the laws of supply and demand. Luxury brands around the world--it can be argued--would make the same amount of profit they make now if they simply reduced the price of their items and let more people buy them... but that's not how the market works. Saturated markets lead to stagnant growth. For the record, each box will cost a SIGNIFICANT amount of money to produce. Zinc Alloy cast sculpts with gold-tone plating that weigh 2.5 lbs are not cheap to make. The box has metal inlay with piano black lacquer coating that takes SEVERAL steps to create. And you can imagine what shipping costs from China to fulfillment centers will cost in todays post-covid environment. Maybe what I can do is say 500 prisms will be made... but only 100 of them are available outside of the Box set. Does this solve the problem? Maybe for 100 people. But then what happens to person 101? 140? 230?

You are correct that you can't make everyone happy, but you can try to cater to everyone and your suggestion above seems to hit all the points. Offer the Prism deck with the Sarcophagus and any extra, allow as add-on at a particular point in the campaign, AT A HIGHER PRICE than it would be in the Sarcophagus set. Yes, those who miss out on the add-on Prism will be bummed, but at least you provide an opportunity for your loyal supporters to get it with having to get a box that they might not want

[montenzi]

Some more in progress

Nothing personal.

It will be a good box for ashes Why do you need this in a playing card project? I am asking as I don't really understand this.

I ordered one standard and two Wylenti Edition decks in your last project. I also received two sample cards - one green and one with holofoil (thanks!). Well, your best deck out of all N-variations is the standard one. I know there is some hype in this community, but sorry, all other cards look cheap.

Real world example - when Kardify asked on their IG to vote for The Tale of the Tempest vs. Vacuum tube it was an easy vote. And look, most of the votes went to another deck. All you need is a good design and nothing else. Such boxes and subpar quality of hyped decks is the dead end. IMHO

[STLBluesNut]

looks beautiful but one should not be required to buy it to get one of the playing card decks in a playing cards campaign.

[brownsl]

I actually could not care less for the accessories/gimmicks with any campaign. I just want the decks. I love the Anubis and Osiris decks and was very disappointed I could not get the gilded decks without buying the pyramid. I did not get the pyramid.

[Strag]

Look, we get the position. That horse has been beaten to death. He's stated his rationale why he's making it a part of the box tier over and over again. I mean, I don't like the box style myself and don't like that I can't get all the decks from the campaign, but we as consumers vote with our wallets. If the strategy is not succesful this time around I'm sure changes will be made for future campaigns.

[balrog326]

They had gilded decks available outside the pyramid , they just had a diff tuck and diff color guilding. IMO the blue and especially the purple Gilding is way nicer.

[hsbc]

The Dynastinae Rex which features alternate back design, cold foil and gilded edges.

Are the cards going to be on a green(?) cardstock again? I keep looking through the Tempest Dynastinae deck, the color is so unique

[bdawg923]

The Dynastinae Rex which features alternate back design, cold foil and gilded edges.

Are the cards going to be on a green(?) cardstock again? I keep looking through the Tempest Dynastinae deck, the color is so unique

I think that's a Lotrek thing. The Parlour dynastinae cards seem to be on regular stock (I don't have one so just going by the campaign images). Since Lotrek said he's not doing decks for other people anymore, I'm guessing it'd be on regular white card stock?

[Harvonsgard]

Since Lotrek said he's not doing decks for other people anymore, ...

... or any decks lately, lEl...

Apologies... couldn't help it.

[TheGentlemanWake]

The Dynastinae Rex which features alternate back design, cold foil and gilded edges.

Are the cards going to be on a green(?) cardstock again? I keep looking through the Tempest Dynastinae deck, the color is so unique

Unlikely. Cartamundi will be printing all the editions. Which means customization options are limited HOWEVER we can expect the decks to be on time !

[vasta41]

Of the thousands of playing cards I've purchased over the years, I have only gone out of my way to buy a small handful of accessories. I collect playing cards. Not stickers, not coins, and certainly not boxes. I know many other people like those things so I don't care that this campaign has them. I've missed out on so many rare decks because of this in the past that I'm not even mad about it this time.
Is there a KS launch page link yet?

[Sir Toddalot]

Personally, I love the look of the box and am really looking forward to this campaign!

[Bradius]

When Lotrek is involved, expect the hot foil custom decks to take front and center. It looks like the box will be the big deal this time. I do like display pieces (shocking, I know), so I am certainly hoping I can add it to my rewards. Kevin is a talented artist and playing card designer. I am definitely looking forward to this campaign.

[laitostarr777]

Kevin Cantrell best work so far was the Standards. With this collab with Wake, The Sucessors will outdo the Standards! No Kidding.
Better get started with collecting funds from the Dark Web