Utterfool, how exactly would they be able to re-establish their good name if no one buys their products??
I don't know. That would be for them/him to work on.
Look first let me say this. I would hate to see CCC go the way of the Dodo. They have produced 2 of my favorite decks for actual use. Americana and hornet are 2 great decks for cards and if the next "retro" deck that CCC made is anything like the Hornets I am sure I am going to be just as happy with that.
This being said Army Men was marketed as a CCC deck. So it is a CCC problem not an Adam problem.
CCC/Russel needs to stand up as he did with the Hornets and take charge he needs to start answering questions about the Army Men deck on this site, Kickstarter and any other. He needs to make it right either through getting the deck produced and sent to the backers or by refunding it.
I am not actually happy to have to say any of this. But we can't separate Russell from this project unless Russell separates himself from CCC, which none of us want to see.
@BMPoker
I struggled with putting the bit in about Asylum in that last post because I knew someone would take it just the way you did.
What I was trying to show there was how a company stands by their product and stays in contact and gives and asks for some faith as they try to fulfill their part of the pledge.
I realize why it fell flat. It is because we all know that those words that came from the Asylum guy were complete BS
My point was looking at it as if it wasn't BS.
But you saw how defensive Russell got when I stated that Adam has spent some or all of the money and how he attacked me...But when Jay confirmed that Adam had indeed spent the money I did not see Russell come out and apologize...He says he agrees somewhat with us but now I fear both he CCC and Adam are affected by this. I thin their reputation is now tarnished and let us see how this will play out. I too would like a refund from CCC like Jay requested
I'm seeing a lot of conflicting opinion here, and I figured I might as well put my two cents in. I did not contribute to this project, nor am I in any way connected to the designer or anyone at CCC. I do know a little about intellectual property (a little - this is not legal advice by a long shot!) and a little about missing deadlines. As an uninterested party, I wanted to offer my perspective(s).
First, the Kickstarter project was "by Adam Clarkson". If anyone has a beef over the project, that beef is with Adam, not Circle City or Russell. To be sure Circle City's reputation is affected by this, but the deal was with Adam.
Now, on to the possible reasons for the alleged legal tangles and Adam's silence. Adam stated "I received a cease and desist letter from a company that I shall not name claiming trademark infringement by my project." It's extremely unlikely this was over the design: no one has an exclusive right to produce these toys. Furthermore, except for the ace of spades there's nothing on the cards that really looks like any real army men being produced - and that ace is pretty generic looking (also easy to fix if the cards weren't printed yet). However, despite the fact that everyone calls little soft plastic soldiers by the generic name "army men", the name Army Men is a trademark of Global Star Software, who produce a line of video games under that banner (and who bought the rights to do so from another, bankrupt, company). I would guess they're vigorously defending their trademark against someone producing another "game".
Whoever the unnamed company is, it's likely they told Adam to stop using the Army Men name - and here's where my theory kicks in. Kickstarter doesn't let you change the title of your project. If Adam were to post updates, even to say he's changing the name of the deck, those updates would have the Army Men name on them! His silence may be on advice of lawyers who thought this out. Said lawyers may also be the reason he spent some of the money.
All of the above is speculation, and I am by no means defending or supporting Adam or anyone else. But considering the nature of Kickstarter - it's not a store, it's an investment system - and cosidering we are only three months after the estimated delivery date, I wouldn't necessarily assume it was a big ripoff or that you all won't get your cards.
On the other hand, Adam may have stolen all your money to go off on his expensive honeymoon, taking Russell with him and spending the rest on mint-condition Vortex decks. I don't know.
Signature? I ain't got no signature. I don't need no signature. I don't have to show you any stinking signature.
I've been reading this everyday like a over the top soap opera. I must say its quite entertaining. I've been silent for a while but as a designer and backer of various projects I think my 2 cents might help some POVs.
First off, I didn't back the deck. I do however, know quite a bit about IPs since I've been working in the motion picture industry for the past 10 years. Clearing IPs are a daily occurrence. Adam has already stated that the artwork needs to be changed and cleared by the infringement issuer. So yes this is over the design. May not be the direct art, like the cards themselves, but the title and portrayal of the "army men" theme. I obviously can't confirm this but it's sounds this way.
Adam's lack of communication is two fold. First, legally, due to the cease and desist letter, he may be legally stricken from mentioning the details of the situation by the lawyers until its all be worked out and on paper (signed off). Secondly, this however doesn't mean he can't come out and give his backers some type of relief by addressing the issues he IS legally able to discuss, like these refunds or compensation.
Refunds! This is a touch and go, since as a KS creator myself, I've experienced people's "entitlement" for refunds. To be fair to other KS creators, refunds are NOT obligated. KS is NOT a store. It is, arguably, more of an investment. This you can lose. The only REAL obligation the creator has is to deliver their product. However, this too is far from a guarantee. Now does this mean I think creators shouldn't ever have to refund? Absolutely not. In good taste, this should always be an option. This case especially, since even though he's not tremendously past due, this situation postpones the product indefinitely. If he was just slightly past due, I'd say patience is a virtue, the estimated deliveries are exactly that....ESTIMATED. This however is out of his control so I would agree with most backers on this one. I think the real uproar is that some of the funds are already spent. Which blows my mind! I have worked on 3 campaigns now, all over $40k and over approx. 1,200 backers, I have NEVER spent a single dime before the decks have been paid and shipping has been set aside. I'd rather be late on add ons due to lack of finances then the freakin' decks. You know how my "profits" are calculated? Whatever's left over AFTER every body has received what they pledged for. This way if my calculations are wrong, I still have my "profit" to use for covering any mishaps. I literally STILL have profits from THE GRID in my bank account, untouched, just in case lol yes I'm paranoid.
The biggest problem is that now CCC's reputation is at risk. Regardless how great Russell has been with his decks and backers, it's STILL a company they are BOTH associated with. If you went to a Burger King two towns over and had a rat in your sandwich, 9 times out of 10, you will never eat at ANY Burger King again. Why? Not all Burger King's have rodents, it's just this one single spot two towns over. But it wouldn't matter, the whole company becomes tarnished because of the actions of one lone restaurant. Guilty by association. Fair? No. True? Absolutely.
In the end, all designers suffer, not just CCC. I've already lost backers who clearly stated it's because projects like Army Men (mentioned by name) and Asylum, which have their faith shaken in KS. Designers have to take accountability for their actions or get the hell out of dodge.
Creator of The Grid, Grid 2.0 & Mythos: Necronomicon Bicycle® Playing Cards
ChasFink wrote:First, the Kickstarter project was "by Adam Clarkson". If anyone has a beef over the project, that beef is with Adam, not Circle City or Russell. To be sure Circle City's reputation is affected by this, but the deal was with Adam.
I'm afraid that comment is not accurate. The main picture on his KS project page has both Adam Clarckson and http://www.CircleCityCards.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; on it. Furthermore, here is a quote from his KS project page:
"Profits from the Revision 1, Brimstone and Americana decks have been used to start the Circle City Card Company. We opened a website last fall (http://www.circlecitycards.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and have put the rest back into help fund my latest deck, Army Men."
It's pretty clear the Army Men project is a joint venture by Adam and CCC.
I think suing Adam civilly is the more appropriate step to take than seeking to criminally prosecute him. The contract Adam signed with KS puts him under a contractual obligation to complete the project or offer refunds. This is what makes this a civil action. I'm not quite certain he's committed any crime yet, and any Federal criminal prosecution or investigation will surely just put a halt to an already painfully slow process.
Whether Adam blew the money or not, whether he's actually fighting an intellectual property claim or not, its all just pointless speculation. All this could have been avoided if he just kept his backers updated instead of going into hiding. Lance was delayed a lot longer with his Actuator decks, but he was able to calm the restless natives with sufficient updates and apologies. Common courtesy can go a long way, and Adam/CCC failed in this simple and fundamental aspect, so now they have to deal with the resulting mess. I'm sure at some point we'll get a beautifully worded apology from Adam/CCC, but I'm afraid it'll be too little too late at that point.
ChasFink wrote:First, the Kickstarter project was "by Adam Clarkson". If anyone has a beef over the project, that beef is with Adam, not Circle City or Russell. To be sure Circle City's reputation is affected by this, but the deal was with Adam.
I'm afraid that comment is not accurate. The main picture on his KS project page has both Adam Clarckson and http://www.CircleCityCards.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.. on it. Furthermore, here is a quote from his KS project page:
"Profits from the Revision 1, Brimstone and Americana decks have been used to start the Circle City Card Company. We opened a website last fall (http://www.circlecitycards.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;..) and have put the rest back into help fund my latest deck, Army Men."
It's pretty clear the Army Men project is a joint venture by Adam and CCC.
Joint project or not, Adam is the only entity the project is credited to, and he is the person you contracted with - if indeed a legal contract exists. It's also a joint venture with USPCC, but I don't think anyone is planning to sue them over this.
I didn't back this one, so maybe my opinion is irrelevant, but I think it's way too early to talk criminal charges or even lawsuit - particularly if you really want the cards. Entangling this guy in further legal trouble isn't going to make it easier for him to get the cards distributed OR issue refunds. And if you do sue, you're far from certain to win. If may paraphrase 4pmdesigner, you didn't pay for merchandise, you invested in a creative project. All investments carry risk. The time may come for legal action, but I don't think that time is now.
On the other hand, it is NOT too early for Adam to make another progress report, even if he has to do so by emailing everyone without mentioning the project name and say "The project you backed has been further delayed, I'm very sorry, and I am still working hard to fulfill my promise to you." This would be in line with Kickstarter's instructions to creators, which they consider to be a legal obligation.
And if you're reading this, Adam, maybe you should mention that to your lawyers.
Signature? I ain't got no signature. I don't need no signature. I don't have to show you any stinking signature.
4pmdesigner wrote: I think the real uproar is that some of the funds are already spent.
This is my main problem with everything...I can wait for the decks, especially when there has been some legal issues brought about that may or may not have been foreseen...but spending the money allotted for making these decks/shipping, etc is unacceptable to me
4pmdesigner wrote:I've been reading this everyday like a over the top soap opera. I must say its quite entertaining. I've been silent for a while but as a designer and backer of various projects I think my 2 cents might help some POVs.
First off, I didn't back the deck. I do however, know quite a bit about IPs since I've been working in the motion picture industry for the past 10 years. Clearing IPs are a daily occurrence. Adam has already stated that the artwork needs to be changed and cleared by the infringement issuer. So yes this is over the design. May not be the direct art, like the cards themselves, but the title and portrayal of the "army men" theme. I obviously can't confirm this but it's sounds this way.
Adam's lack of communication is two fold. First, legally, due to the cease and desist letter, he may be legally stricken from mentioning the details of the situation by the lawyers until its all be worked out and on paper (signed off). Secondly, this however doesn't mean he can't come out and give his backers some type of relief by addressing the issues he IS legally able to discuss, like these refunds or compensation.
Refunds! This is a touch and go, since as a KS creator myself, I've experienced people's "entitlement" for refunds. To be fair to other KS creators, refunds are NOT obligated. KS is NOT a store. It is, arguably, more of an investment. This you can lose. The only REAL obligation the creator has is to deliver their product. However, this too is far from a guarantee. Now does this mean I think creators shouldn't ever have to refund? Absolutely not. In good taste, this should always be an option. This case especially, since even though he's not tremendously past due, this situation postpones the product indefinitely. If he was just slightly past due, I'd say patience is a virtue, the estimated deliveries are exactly that....ESTIMATED. This however is out of his control so I would agree with most backers on this one. I think the real uproar is that some of the funds are already spent. Which blows my mind! I have worked on 3 campaigns now, all over $40k and over approx. 1,200 backers, I have NEVER spent a single dime before the decks have been paid and shipping has been set aside. I'd rather be late on add ons due to lack of finances then the freakin' decks. You know how my "profits" are calculated? Whatever's left over AFTER every body has received what they pledged for. This way if my calculations are wrong, I still have my "profit" to use for covering any mishaps. I literally STILL have profits from THE GRID in my bank account, untouched, just in case lol yes I'm paranoid.
The biggest problem is that now CCC's reputation is at risk. Regardless how great Russell has been with his decks and backers, it's STILL a company they are BOTH associated with. If you went to a Burger King two towns over and had a rat in your sandwich, 9 times out of 10, you will never eat at ANY Burger King again. Why? Not all Burger King's have rodents, it's just this one single spot two towns over. But it wouldn't matter, the whole company becomes tarnished because of the actions of one lone restaurant. Guilty by association. Fair? No. True? Absolutely.
In the end, all designers suffer, not just CCC. I've already lost backers who clearly stated it's because projects like Army Men (mentioned by name) and Asylum, which have their faith shaken in KS. Designers have to take accountability for their actions or get the hell out of dodge.
Everything 4PM said might be 100% correct. But at the end of the day if they are never going to let him use the "Army Men" name and that is in fact the issue, than he should just change the name to solider deck or something similiar period. Why are we going back and forth? It comes down to 2 issues to wrap this thing up in short order.
1) Either pay them what they are asking for you to use their trademarked name
or
Make the necessary changes to the deck so you will not infringe on their trademark and you won't have to deal with them.
I have been involved in these type of situations before in my other business and you know right away if they are going to let you do it at all or if you can pay the amount they are asking. If they aren't going to allow you to use their trademark or you can't afford their royalty request, you either have to abandon the project or make changes that will allow you to still do the project without infringing on their trademark. In either case, this situation should have been resolved a long time ago.
Thanks!
EDIT: While I know I am not an expert in this field, I have had these issues come up enough of times to know that I have never seen a cease and desist letter accompanied by a gag order, when dealing with trademark issues. The reason is because they want as many people as possible to know that they will not allow their trademark to be used or used without their permission, so they can eliminate or try to minimize the amount of times these things occur. They would prefer it to be public so they don't have to spend time and money dealing with these issues in the future.
badpete69 wrote:
But you saw how defensive Russell got when I stated that Adam has spent some or all of the money and how he attacked me...But when Jay confirmed that Adam had indeed spent the money I did not see Russell come out and apologize...
To be fair, your allegation was;
badpete69 wrote:
What is ruder is that he went on an expensive honeymoon with both my money , your money and everyone else who pledge on the Army deck. What a deadbeat and still no update. I want my refund
and Russell replied with
Russell wrote:Your statements are wrong and full of shit. He did not use KS money to take his honeymoon, it was payed for before his Kickstarter project even started. He also has not defrauded you. You will get the decks you pledged for.
All we know (from CBJ) is that Adam reportedly has spent some of the money. What we don't know, is what that money was spent on. Could it be his honeymoon, or going to the liquor store? Sure, but then it also could be on Sample Decks, or add-on manufacture (Dice, T-Shirts or Dog Tags in this case). While we don't know anything (which is Adams fault) everyone can make conjecture/allegations, but that is all it is.
Whilst CCC & Russell are irreparably tarnished in this process, we have to remember that the project was "by Adam Clarkson" - and he is the one who (presumably) received the money from Kickstarter. (Just from a back of the envelope calculation, this is likely to have been about $14,628 - assuming the standard 10% fees from KickStarter/Amazon.) Whilst the text of the project specifically says that funds from CCC "helped fund my latest deck, Army Men", it is unclear what this means, if anything other than Adam linking this deck to success largely of Russell's making.
TL;DR: We actually don't know shit, other than the project is well past the 'estimated' delivery date (and likely to go much further) and Adam's not talking.
...This sucks. I have one pal who also pledged and got nothing. I smurfing get so angry. I worked myself to the god damned bone doing ours to make sure it went off well and people like this just don't care and then make it harder for the rest of us going forward.
First, let me start by apologizing for my delay in keeping you informed of the progress of this project. I know that some of you have been concerned that I was not going to follow through or offer refunds, but that is not how I do business. My first concern is always with my customer. I will be honest, that my lack of response was due to my inexperience in handling something of this magnitude and my uncertainty in how to proceed.
A series of unfortunate events and poor management has resulted in this project not coming to fruition. I hate to say this, I truly do. It saddens me; I really loved this deck and wanted it to happen. After months of waiting around to find if I could legally create the deck I was finally given permission that by changing the name, the font and the plastic army figures I could produce the deck. So I start running the numbers again with all the new and most up to date costs. What I find is that with shipping, production, packing material and add-ons the total cost would be just shy of what was actually raised after all the Amazon and Kickstarter fees. These rising production and shipping costs have no longer made this project viable. I will therefore, be offering refunds to all that pledged on this project.
It bears noting that some of the money was already spent. As there should have been a profit I took care of some student loan debt that my wife and I have both accumulated. Yes, that was a poor decision. I should have held on to all the money until the decks were produced and shipped. I’ve been brooding on this subject for a month and it eats at me constantly, I can’t sleep at night thinking about this. I’m not telling you this for your pity I just want you to know that I am not a bad person. I never set out to “scam” anyone. My mother backed this project, my friends backed this project, and my co-workers and in-laws backed this project. I am embarrassed and shamed for the things that have happened. I started with the best of intentions. I let you down. I let my mother down who spread the word about this project to all her friends. I let my father down whose company I work for and represent, I let Russell, the founder of Circle City Card Company, down as he put his reputation on the line to give me support. And again I let all of you down.
Refunds
Yes, you may receive a refund. I want to make this right and that means I will offer a refund to any of my backers. Please note that I will not be able to refund everyone’s hard earned money immediately I will have to pay it back bit by bit. Due to the way Amazon and Kickstarter operate there is no way to just click a refund button and have the money sent back to the backers. There may have been a way soon after the money was collected but at this point that is not an option. Kickstarter and Amazon will also not be refunding the fees charged to me. In order to receive a refund you must send a self-addressed stamped envelope to:
Army Deck Refund Request
PO Box 375
Whiteland, IN 46184
You must include your backer name used on Kickstarter, the amount you pledged and the self-addressed stamped envelope by July 1st 2013. Refunds will be processed in the order requests are received.
Other Notes
Honeymoon – Some have asked if all the money was spent while my wife and I were on our honeymoon. I assure you it was not. That trip was booked and paid for months before the Kickstarter campaign began with money that was received on our wedding day. The flight was paid for with frequent flyer miles and we stayed in youth hostels the whole trip. It was not the Grand Voyage some have described it to be.
Circle City Card Company – As I mentioned before Russell is the founder of this company. He helped me out as we’re both Indianapolis natives and I hurt him. I will no longer be involved with anything to do with the Circle City Card Company.
Final Thoughts
Again, I am deeply saddened for the way things turned out. I am also incredibly embarrassed for the way things have been managed. I will do all I can to make this right and dig myself out of this hole I’m in. I never wanted this to happen and I completely understand all your frustration.
Please accept my deepest and most sincere apology,
I want to thank all of you that believed in this design and supported me.
.... with all the new and most up to date costs. What I find is that with shipping, production, packing material and add-ons the total cost would be just shy of what was actually raised after all the Amazon and Kickstarter fees. These rising production and shipping costs have no longer made this project viable. I will therefore, be offering refunds to all that pledged on this project.
Translation: I'll no longer be making a profit, so the project is cancelled.
Yes, you may receive a refund. I want to make this right and that means I will offer a refund to any of my backers. Please note that I will not be able to refund everyone’s hard earned money immediately I will have to pay it back bit by bit.
....
In order to receive a refund you must send a self-addressed stamped envelope to:
....
You must include your backer name used on Kickstarter, the amount you pledged and the self-addressed stamped envelope by July 1st 2013. Refunds will be processed in the order requests are received.
Translation: I'll give your money back, eventually, if you can jump through these hoops.
IMHO: This refund process sucks. It's bad for people in the US, but basically impossible for international backers (SASE, and US checks ). Adam needs to change this to Paypal.... or something else which works.
PS. But kudos to Adam for actually doing something about this evolving, drawn out, mess.
The only problem with his refund plan is that he wants the person who pledged to send him A SELF ADDRESSED STAMPED ENVELOPE. That went out in the 80s. This just makes people feel less secure that they will ever see that refund. He needs to get off his A** and use PAYPAL so people get their refund right away and the check doesnt get lost in the mail.
Thank you,
Jeff
“Magnus raised his hands above his head and clapped once. The room flooded with light. "You see? You think that would be possible without magic?
"Actually," replied Simon, "It is. If you watched infomercials you'd know that.” ― Cassandra Clare
No, he's not. He's asking people to send him a SASE and he MIGHT send them money. Obviously impossible for international backers. This is a standard way of pretending to offer a refund without actually doing so. I would have potentially written this off if he hadn't made up a combination of lies and a joke of a refund program. Now I will pursue it as much as I possible can.
To be clear here are the specific lies:
1. "I didn't spend the money on my honeymoon, but I paid off student loans." Hint: Paying off loans instead of taking the honeymoon might have been the right move. Using backer money to pay off loans = joke. Essentially by taking the honeymoon and not paying off the loans until he got our money means he had a luxury trip at our expense.
2. "I don't have any money." Really? What about the other KS project that raised over 60K and is supposedly going extremely well according to the web site? Or is that more lies.
3. "Send me a SASE and you'll get your money back" although he insinuates we won't get the Amazon/KS portion. Ah, so you paid off student loans and took out a -10% loan from your backers which you pay back at your whim! Great program, where do I sign up?
Words cannot express how disgusted I am with his post.
The failure and current situation and the way it is being handled tarnishes CCC's reputation across the board, which is sad. While I get that the army men kickstarter was not "a CCC production" it was produced under those auspices and it appears that a fair number of people backed based on CCC's reputation. This will make me think twice before backing another CCC venture.
At this point - It looks like a scam. I'm sad about this because I was looking forward to these cards, as was my son.
Yeah, He spent the money prior to completing the project. I don't really care that he made a bad decision, or that it might add to his debt to make it right. I'd rather, now that he has owned up to it, that he just produced the decks.
This latest update is a joke. Any this proves to me that any CCC-backed venture in the future is not worth messing with because who knows how THAT will turn out if this one turned out this way.
The Army Men deck is Adam's deck, as I have no input on his decks like he has none on mine. We have always operated independently with zero shared costs other than the website (which I now run/pay for it myself).
This is a shitty situation and it completely caught me off-guard as well.
Well, I won't let this stop me from doing business with Russell in the future. I won't defend him in any way, but he has plenty of good and successful decks under his belt and I have only had positive exchanges with him so far. Now that Adam has been cut loose I see no problems with CCC anymore.
WTF?!?! He cannot pay us back? Wait...this is a f***** joke right? I mean this envelope thing....its impossible for a international backer to get a refund like this.
PAYPAL or nothing!
Mostly been a lurker on this forum, but I've gotta comment here. While I'm pissed about how Adam is handling the situation, I'll most certainly still buy Russell's decks in the future. Brimstone is one of the favorite decks I have in my possession.
This situation is terrible, yeah. My biggest worry here is that Adam will go off the grid again and be virtually uncontactable, feeling he's done his job by providing this "solution".
Wow, this is just sad. I have a suspicion that the only thing that might have prompted this "confession" was the threat of legal/criminal action, otherwise who knows how much longer Adam would've dragged this out. If he's going to make things right, he has to do it the right way:
First, give full transparency and full disclosure. Tell us what was the total money he received minus the KS and Amazon fees. Then tell us how much he spent on himself and let us know how much is left over that he has available immediately for refunds. Then give us a time frame as to how long it will take him to obtain the balance so that every last backer is issued a full refund.
How is he issuing the refunds? Is it first come first serve, or just a pro rata refund based upon how much money he has? He needs to let us know the exact method and amounts for the refund.
I agree with everyone else about how ridiculous the SASE is. I don't trust him to mail me any amount of money unless its certified to ensure and track delivery, and I doubt he's going to pay for that. I know he has a PayPal account so that should be the method by which he issues full refunds, unless a backer doesn't have a PayPal account.
I have a feeling (and I hope I'm wrong) that he blew most of the money, and this vague and unworkable offer of a refund is merely pretext to buy him some time since he was feeling the legal heat. He needs to give full disclosure on exactly how much was spent on himself and how much is left, and then take out a loan to cover everyone's full refund. We are not in the business of subsidizing his student loans, so its only fitting that he take out a loan to fully refund everyone right away,
sinjin7 wrote:How is he issuing the refunds? Is it first come first serve, or just a pro rata refund based upon how much money he has? He needs to let us know the exact method and amounts for the refund.
You must include your backer name used on Kickstarter, the amount you pledged and the self-addressed stamped envelope by July 1st 2013. Refunds will be processed in the order requests are received.
I agree with everyone else about how ridiculous the SASE is. I don't trust him to mail me any amount of money unless its certified to ensure and track delivery, and I doubt he's going to pay for that.
If he said he issued me a check an I never got it I would require a canceled check deposited into my account as proof of payment.
I'm Lucky and live in the US, I did not pledge a huge sum of money on this deck or really any other deck but still have sent in screen shoots of my KS backer history showing the amount I pledged for and sent of my letter with a SASE.
I'm happy to at least see that he has admitted his failings however Adam has gone about things very poorly. He has admitted his illegal activities of defrauding his backers. His means of going about this is bad and could turn into a bigger issue (mail fraud). I'm going through my credit card company for my refund. There is enough information to get my $ back. I'll let American Express and Amazon Payments go after him.
I'm also probably pleased to see Russell backing away from Adam, however this does not mean that he isn't culpable by affiliation. Russell meant no wrong or evil-doing but to say he isn't affiliated is wrong. CCC as well as Russell are mentioned in the KickStarter project description, CCC's FaceBook page lists Adam as a partner along with promoting the AM deck, as well as Russel's post on the AM KickStarter project stating "Hey guys, I am Adam's business partner." on December 7th, 2012.
I'm no lawyer, however if I were Russell I'd make sure to be protected against any potential fallout from Adam and any illegal investigation(s).
This SASE "refund" is ridiculous, i concur with sinjin's analysis, this isnt about being 'old fashioned', he has a certain motive with this because he cannot pay the full sum. Before all of this, i was still hopeful to see the deck being produced, even with the long wait, i guess i was wrong.
I also feel that Russell has a solid reputation amongst us, I would still trust him on his forthcoming projects.
). Adam needs to change this to Paypal.... or something else which works.
