Kickstarter Black List

[masagin303]

...it is against KS terms to not refund someone when they ask for it, as many have. Screams of Natalia Silva level customer service.

No such KS terms exist. You can cancel your pledge during the campaign but after successful funding it's just between you and the creator. It simply corresponds to the whole Kickstarter concept. You're not buying things there, it's not a store. You are supporting a creation (with eventual awards for you) and sharing some risk with the creator. It either goes well and you support them in the future or it doesn't and you won't support them again. But the risk is there, it always has been, it's rooted in the basic idea of crowdfunding.

[rousselle]

Dave has posted every couple of months or so. He even posted relatively recently to say that one of the projects was getting fulfilled shortly, and then he'd focus on the other one (I don't recall which was which.) Keep an eye on my Watchdogs list, but truly, I think it's a little early to be swinging the Black List hammer his way.

[guru]

...it is against KS terms to not refund someone when they ask for it, as many have. Screams of Natalia Silva level customer service.

No such KS terms exist. You can cancel your pledge during the campaign but after successful funding it's just between you and the creator. It simply corresponds to the whole Kickstarter concept. You're not buying things there, it's not a store. You are supporting a creation (with eventual awards for you) and sharing some risk with the creator. It either goes well and you support them in the future or it doesn't and you won't support them again. But the risk is there, it always has been, it's rooted in the basic idea of crowdfunding.

Just to add to the above, the risk is always as there with crowdfunding similar to what you find in any investments.

Being frank, I've observed that Playing Cards on Kickstarter fair much better than other products out there. Case in point, the following projects I backed never fulfilled and some of these creators also folded their companies eventually. But, these were expensive products and raised closed to more than million$$$s in funding. As we all do, I work very hard to earn and some of these products failing hurt me very hard, made me a lot grumpier and stressed as well. In the end, I realized that I'd to let it go and learn my lessons. I haven't moved away from kickstarter as it is not a solution, it made me more cautious in terms of which projects to back and I also started doing my homework well.

Still, playing cards projects are doing better in terms of fulfillment compared to the other categories. I do agree that when you do not hear regular updates or a creator becomes silent, mind always turn to the worst case scenario.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/br ... uperscreen

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/an ... a-laptop-f

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/in ... ts-headpho

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/12 ... n-robotics (Only project where I got the refund back from the creator)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/on ... o/comments

[jerichoholic]

...it is against KS terms to not refund someone when they ask for it, as many have. Screams of Natalia Silva level customer service.

No such KS terms exist. You can cancel your pledge during the campaign but after successful funding it's just between you and the creator. It simply corresponds to the whole Kickstarter concept. You're not buying things there, it's not a store. You are supporting a creation (with eventual awards for you) and sharing some risk with the creator. It either goes well and you support them in the future or it doesn't and you won't support them again. But the risk is there, it always has been, it's rooted in the basic idea of crowdfunding.

Perhaps not exactly as I put it however creators have to either fulfill a project or refund it.

[Cardians]

Those links above by Guru (Thank you btw) are great examples of people being scammed and KS sits back and does nothing as long as they get their piece of the pie.

Sounds to me KS still has the ability to be used as a virtual platform for scam artists.

I avoid all KS every since Natalia or whatever her name was.

Mind you, the latest TWG champaign has been the newest one for me, but with any pledge your taking a gamble.

I think most have taken enough gambles with our old buddy Lotrek to know you’ll receive something. Maybe not July 2021 something but at the end of the day, Omar and Lotrek are going to make sure backers are happy.

Cheers,
KW

[Strag]

Might want to read the KS ToS more closely.

6. Stuff We Don’t Do and Aren’t Responsible For
We don’t oversee projects’ performance, and we don’t mediate disputes between users.

Kickstarter isn’t liable for any damages or losses related to your use of the Services. We don’t become involved in disputes between users, or between users and any third party relating to the use of the Services. We don’t oversee the performance or punctuality of projects, and we don’t endorse any content users submit to the Site. When you use the Services, you release Kickstarter from claims, damages, and demands of every kind—known or unknown, suspected or unsuspected, disclosed or undisclosed—arising out of or in any way related to such disputes and the Services. All content you access through the Services is at your own risk. You’re solely responsible for any resulting damage or loss to any party.

You are actually making a contract with the creator which Kickstarter is not a party to, yes somehow provides the language for. Contact follows and as you can see, the creator can not be held liable for delivery in a variety of circumstances. Even if you believe that have not met met that criteria you still have to go after them and is the amount ever worth it? Some creators count on this. Best case scenario is to get a government or watchdog agency involved on your behalf.

Kickstarter provides a funding platform for creative projects. When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.

Kickstarter is not a part of this contract—the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:

When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that they’re not buying something when they back a project—they’re helping to create something new, not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.

If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

I am not a lawyer, important note.

[laitostarr777]

Those links above by Guru (Thank you btw) are great examples of people being scammed and KS sits back and does nothing as long as they get their piece of the pie.

Sounds to me KS still has the ability to be used as a virtual platform for scam artists.

I avoid all KS every since Natalia or whatever her name was.

Mind you, the latest TWG champaign has been the newest one for me, but with any pledge your taking a gamble.

I think most have taken enough gambles with our old buddy Lotrek to know you’ll receive something. Maybe not July 2021 something but at the end of the day, Omar and Lotrek are going to make sure backers are happy.

Cheers,
KW

The main point is, before commit to pledges, better do your research first - see any of previous campaigns (are there many successful campaigns, and people get the stuffs - or are there frequent cancelled projects or failed fundings). If it’s someone who just started his/her first campaign, then it is a gamble.

We knew we can trusts big names like Lotrek and Lorenzo and Omar, and some others, so we can guarantee our pledges to them~

[jerichoholic]

Problem is a number of creators, like Natalia and Circle City years ago and perhaps Vanda, had a number of successful projects then they turned into dicks and disappeared with people's money.

I don't feel like Kickstarter should be allowed to get with this bullshit where they do nothing. Even Ebay, who is virtually in the same position, helps out customers when they don't get what they paid for.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Why would Vanda be in consideration?

[Strag]

Why would Vanda be in consideration?

Because he hasn't fulfilled his last two projects (one of them almost a year late) and has failed on multiple promises to start shipping on one of them, has stopped logging into KS, stopped responded to DMs and is acting like a thief? The second coming of Natalia Silva.

[laitostarr777]

Why would Vanda be in consideration?

Because he hasn't fulfilled his last two projects (one of them almost a year late) and has failed on multiple promises to start shipping on one of them, has stopped logging into KS, stopped responded to DMs and is acting like a thief? The second coming of Natalia Silva.

Been seeing some of Natalia Silva's work. It's just great, especially that Avalon deck. But sadly....... there were no updates ever since. No wonder she is now on a blacklist. So sad seeing great stuffs never realized

[Strag]

Dave has posted every couple of months or so. He even posted relatively recently to say that one of the projects was getting fulfilled shortly, and then he'd focus on the other one (I don't recall which was which.) Keep an eye on my Watchdogs list, but truly, I think it's a little early to be swinging the Black List hammer his way.

It's now been a month since he logged into KS, two months since he promised to start shipping Centurio (surprise: he hasn't) and he doesn't respond to messages on any social media, to the email on his web site, to comments on KS or to DMs on KS. Pretty sure he's decided that there is no saving his reputation and he's gone rogue. Not sure how he can salvage his rep at this point, especially as Centurio was supposed to be the beginning of a series and now who would want to back one of his campagins?

He's got about $300 of my money and at this point I'm disgusted to have any of his decks in my collection.

[OVSUB]

Still no update from Dave... Black list his thief @rse

[jerichoholic]

Vanda is now having a massive sale, clearly trying to dump stock so he can then disappear!

[Strag]

This has been reported for weeks, nothing has changed. Sale is nothing new, he has yet to fulfill orders according to Reddit reports.

[Entaro]

This has been reported for weeks, nothing has changed. Sale is nothing new, he has yet to fulfill orders according to Reddit reports.

Yep can vouche for this, still have labels printed but not even given to FedEx yet. One person posted saying they received an order from them, but I find it suspect that no one else seems to have. Been like a month since the sale started? Been seeing ads for it everywhere still.

[Harvonsgard]

This list has lost all integrety when for example, Nemesis is on it just because they switched printers (which ain't cool but at leasts they deliver a product) or Bill Davis just because people don't like his attitude but others that doesn't fulfill projects and keep their backers in the dark aren't.

@Entaro - If I were you I wouldn't hesitate to claim my money back. Way too shady/sketchy situation with Vanda.

[Entaro]

Yea already planning to, not sweating it because my credit card Co is good about that kind of thing, been just keeping an eye on it lol

[laitostarr777]

...just because they switched printers

I heard that "Rulers of Korea" playing cards were meant to be printed by Cartamundi, but the creator mentioned there was a problem in submitting the files, so she gave up on Cartamundi and went to USPCC instead, and it finally delivers.

I think "switching printer" shouldn't be an issue of being blacklisted here. As long the products are fulfilled, should be okay.
Maybe, if its something like: announcing they change printer after a long hiatus, now that is wrong.

[Harvonsgard]

That was kinda my point. Folks are on this list for simply being major d**ks but they fulfilled and people that didn't aren't on the list makes no sense imo.

[rousselle]

The keeper of this list, akicer, doesn't appear to have logged on here in well over a month. Do we want to update the list without waiting?

I take it there's a growing appetite to add Vanda to the list. Any objections? Anyone else there's a growing appetite to add to the list?

[brownsl]

Sergey Kostyuchenko - Dance of Death fiasco

[EvilDuncan]

The keeper of this list, akicer, doesn't appear to have logged on here in well over a month. Do we want to update the list without waiting?

I take it there's a growing appetite to add Vanda to the list. Any objections? Anyone else there's a growing appetite to add to the list?

I object. I honestly think Dave wants to fulfill, but has fallen on hard times in his personal and professional life. Vanda is a side project for him. I'm not ready to give up on his work. With so many great projects produced, it hurts to see people jump on the "thief" bandwagon, even after all this time. I have gotten two emails recently about the Centurio project. One confirming my shipping address and another welcoming me to the Centurion Club. I think he will fulfill this project, and if he eventually decides to produce another, I'll be there to support him as well.

[Strag]

Whilst I appreciate you feel that way @EvilDuncan I feel quite the opposite.

1. I paid Dave over $300 for two different projects. He has not directly communicated via Kickstarter on either one of them since NOVEMBER of last year. However in the intervening time he managed to have TWO separate sales on his web site. So he has enough time to run campaigns on his site but not to communicate with the people who had faith in him and paid OVER A YEAR AGO for two projects and received nothing.
2. I have contacted him directly via email, social media and Kickstarter. He has not responded to ONE of those messages.
3. None of the messages he sent in the last week contained any context or apology for his behaviour, yet somehow you are rationalizing for him? Sorry, not sorry. Those "messages" were generic and didn't even address the lack of communication whatsoever.
4. Stories was funded first on NOVEMBER 22, 2019! Yet he still has not committed to any timeline on that campaign, which was supposed to deliver A YEAR AGO! There is ZERO indication that he plans to deliver on this project.
5. Centurio was a campaign that in part promised future benefits. Whilst you may be happy to continue to support David, I have no such inclination so for me, that part of the campagin is lost money and I am now paying above the odds for what I will actually receive.

So yes, I consider him to still belong on this list until he
a. Ships all goods promised for BOTH his Kickstarters
b. Apologizes profusely for the horrendous treament of what should be his most valued customers who have trusted him with THEIR hard earned money for over a year

Note that I am not asking for an explanation. I honestly don't care and wouldn't believe anything he says at this point in any case. Just admit you made a mistake and rectify it is all he can do at this point. Then he can perhaps try to figure our a way to repair a reputation that is clearly in tatters (check out comments on KS and Reddit as well as social media if you don't believe me).

[Harvonsgard]

Simple question @EvilDuncan, if tomorrow a new Vanda campaign is launched on kickstarter, would you back it?
I certainly don't care if David is on this black list or not but he sure isn't one I would send money to unless he did what Strag wrote. Nice guy or not .

[EvilDuncan]

Well, I see this black list as a bit of a permanent mark on someone's record/reputation. I see this list as people that we should not back ever again. If Natalia Silva or Cellar Window showed up again with a new project (even if they decided to fulfill their outstanding projects), I would not back them again. I agree that we should not back any project by Vanda before these current projects are fulfilled.

These are all good points, and I understand everyone's point of view. I just don't feel ready to relegate him to a black list yet. Maybe a provisional/gray list type thing?

[rousselle]

I like the "gray list" idea.

I'm still dragging my feet, hoping that Dave starts to fulfill orders before he actually lands on the list.... Dave! Do it! Get those orders shipped!

[Harvonsgard]

Do it! Get those orders shipped!

Wait what? Do you know that the decks are produced?

[Strag]

I emailed GW on Centurio in Jan and was told it was in assembly phase. No idea on Stories. I still think he belongs on the black list, a year late and no comms is pathetic.

[Strag]

I like the "gray list" idea.

I'm still dragging my feet, hoping that Dave starts to fulfill orders before he actually lands on the list.... Dave! Do it! Get those orders shipped!

Turns out he logged in to Kickstarter on March 2nd. No update, no response to any comments, no response to any DMs. Sorry, he is on *my* black list at list. His behaviour is disrepectful and continuing to run "going out of business" type sales on his site without addressing his behaviour over the last year is unacceptable.