Anything and everything related to PLAYING CARD projects on crowdfunding sites EXCEPT the threads about specific projects, which go in "New & Custom Decks"
I had been working on this puzzle box since 2019...titled Mythos...It is based on trickster gods from various mythologies and so has got different puzzle mechanisms on each side.
One of the sides have a pattern based puzzle and it was an original concept...Today, I got to know of snotes.com and seems like they have copyrighted any such patterns based puzzle...
I also got inspiration from how in cricket matches the ads on the grass look elongated when viewed from the top. So depth of field and foreshortening. This was done in adobe illustrator and hand on heart, I was not aware of snores during the idea inception and execution..
My question is that is it really the case that such a puzzle pattern never existed before ...Should I check with Snotes.com proactively or should I do some homework at my end, and if yes, what should I be doing?
This is how the prototype has evolved over the year.
Edit: Now I realise some of the differences with how they make snotes versus this pattern mechanism above. This puzzle has got only one name hidden in the pattern, and there are no multiple messages. The alignment and positioning to solve the puzzle (and read the name) is tied to the step before it which means that another side need to be solved first to proceed to this side and the previous puzzle also gives a hint to the name as well as how to position the box to read the name and unlock the mechanism.
I'm going to start off by saying that 1) I am not a lawyer and I do not practice law in any country, while 2) I have a vested interest in developing and preserving intellectual property both that belongs to me and, in other cases, belongs to my employer, so I have, out of necessity, learned as much as I can *as a layperson* about the general rules that apply to intellectual property. That said, it's entirely possible that anything I think I know about the subject could be wrong, or could be different depending upon which legal jurisdiction you are playing in.
My first thought is that you should consider not using that site any more than you already have (if, indeed, you have visited it at all), and do not set up an account or agree to any terms of service on that site. You don't want any of their ideas or expressions of ideas to in any way contaminate your own work, nor do you want to create the impression that this could have been the case.
You *may* want to consider engaging a lawyer who specializes in intellectual property, both as it applies within the United States and also as it applies internationally, and ask for a better informed opinion. *In general*, you cannot copyright an idea, but only the expression of an idea, so if your puzzle does not include elements created on their site, you are not using anything that they could lay claim to as having been created by them. So, to avoid copyright infringement, don't use them to generate your puzzles.
But, you can patent an idea, if you have an actual sample that works using the methodology you describe in your patent application. So, you would want your counselor to advise you on what patents they may have secured to determine what, exactly, they own the rights to. If their patents only concern how the images are generated or de-coded, then as long as you don't use their methodology, you may be just fine. If, however, they have patented the idea of obscuring a message by shaping it in an oval which is then stretched out into a circle, with overlapping parts the message incorporated similarly... well, then you *might* have an issue. Maybe. Maybe not. A lawyer is better suited to address that possibility than I am.
I do know, however, that even if their patent does not directly cover your particular application, that doesn't mean they will necessarily refrain from taking legal action against you if you make a commercial product that does something similar to what theirs does. Anybody can threaten to sue anybody else at any time for any reason, assuming they have the money and the will to do so. A well-informed lawyer can better advise you as to whether they think this is likely to happen with regard to this website and your puzzle box.
I suspect your application of this principle is different enough from theirs, and that your market is different enough from theirs, that you may not have an issue here. But, little bit of qualified legal advice can go a long way to justify proceeding as you were or changing course.
That's just my tuppence. Your mileage may vary, of course.
After having gone through their website, the difference in my mechanism is that there is one name hidden strategically in the pattern. The alignment, positioning and name gets revelaed when another side is solved first..and.by placing the red colored acrylic lens to read the message. This gives the hint about the name and how to align the box to get the pattern in the right position and to unlock the box. You can't solve the last side if the other sides are unsolved.
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B...but... but... copyright protects originality and creativity! - yeah, lol.
It sure protects independent creators from big companies just stealing their ideas though! - yeah, lol again.
It baffles me till this day that people fall for that hoax. Some day a skilled con will convince folks that s/he owns air...
guru wrote:what should I be doing?
I'd say if you don't have to fear any financial or juristic repurcussions then simply go for it. There is nothing wrong with that.
Sunish, I think you are mixing up copyrights and patents. I went on the Snotes website and as far as any IP is concerned, I've only seen reference to a trademark and copyright, but no mention of a patent. Obviously, the Fleur de Lis Group, LLC obtained a trademark for their name, Snotes, which is not an issue here as long as you don't call your puzzle a Snote. The only thing they've copyrighted is all the written ad copy, info, and instructions found on their site, so also not an issue as long as you don't plagiarize anything written on their site. The issue here is do they have an actual patent on anything?
They cannot have a patent on the concept of elongating words/phrases so they are unrecognizable unless viewed only at a certain angle, that idea has been around way before Snotes so it's not novel or new. They do have a novel idea of camouflaging their "Snotes" by overlapping multiple words/phrases that are viewable and read sequentially by rotating the Snote once it's viewable at that certain angle. But that concept alone is probably not sufficient for a patent. Now if they invented a decoder device that can be used where someone can insert a Snote and the decoder automatically finds the reading angle and rotates the Snote for you for your reading pleasure, or if they invented an app to utilize the sending and decoding of a Snote to your mobile device or computer, then those inventions can be patented. But I didn't see any evidence of any patented (or patent pending) products on their site. Again, you can't patent and idea or concept, especially one that is not new or novel, you have to have some tangible invention or product. I did see a section where they are encouraging customers to incorporate Snotes into their products via a licnese so that you can utilize their trademark, but you wouldn't be interested in that.
I suspect you went on their site and saw trademark and copyright information on the bottom of their page and mistakenly thought their trademark or copyright somehow applied to your puzzle. If you are concerned about any potential IP violation, do a search for patents for a product that is a puzzle that can be unlocked, in part, by deciphering a Snote-like hidden elongated message. I doubt there is such a product. If you are super concerned about any potential IP violation, then pony up some cash and hire an IP attorney for actual legal advice and services.
sinjin7 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:03 am
Sunish, I think you are mixing up copyrights and patents. I went on the Snotes website and as far as any IP is concerned, I've only seen reference to a trademark and copyright, but no mention of a patent. Obviously, the Fleur de Lis Group, LLC obtained a trademark for their name, Snotes, which is not an issue here as long as you don't call your puzzle a Snote. The only thing they've copyrighted is all the written ad copy, info, and instructions found on their site, so also not an issue as long as you don't plagiarize anything written on their site. The issue here is do they have an actual patent on anything?
They cannot have a patent on the concept of elongating words/phrases so they are unrecognizable unless viewed only at a certain angle, that idea has been around way before Snotes so it's not novel or new. They do have a novel idea of camouflaging their "Snotes" by overlapping multiple words/phrases that are viewable and read sequentially by rotating the Snote once it's viewable at that certain angle. But that concept alone is probably not sufficient for a patent. Now if they invented a decoder device that can be used where someone can insert a Snote and the decoder automatically finds the reading angle and rotates the Snote for you for your reading pleasure, or if they invented an app to utilize the sending and decoding of a Snote to your mobile device or computer, then those inventions can be patented. But I didn't see any evidence of any patented (or patent pending) products on their site. Again, you can't patent and idea or concept, especially one that is not new or novel, you have to have some tangible invention or product. I did see a section where they are encouraging customers to incorporate Snotes into their products via a licnese so that you can utilize their trademark, but you wouldn't be interested in that.
I suspect you went on their site and saw trademark and copyright information on the bottom of their page and mistakenly thought their trademark or copyright somehow applied to your puzzle. If you are concerned about any potential IP violation, do a search for patents for a product that is a puzzle that can be unlocked, in part, by deciphering a Snote-like hidden elongated message. I doubt there is such a product. If you are super concerned about any potential IP violation, then pony up some cash and hire an IP attorney for actual legal advice and services.
Thanks John. Really appreciate it.
After checking their website, I'd searched and found this:
Think the puzzle is good as there was no computer program to create that, and secondly, there is only one name or message in my case, but in the patent they describe as below.
A computer-implemented method is described. A message is received from a user via a user interface of a computer device. The message includes at least first and second portions. A virtual cryptic note is generated that includes the first portion of the message arranged in a first orientation, and the second portion of the message arranged in a second orientation that is rotated relative to the first orientation, with the second portion of the message overlapping the first portion of the message. The virtual cryptic note is provided to the user. Cryptic notes can be useful and entertaining, particularly when used online, in email and/or in social media.
