Is it worth it financially

[Ragzzz]

So - myself and a friend who’s been a graphic designer/illustrator for over 17 years are thinking bout entering the card design and sell market.

Literally decided today

We have a few concepts and now it’s my job to do the research

First thing. Is it worth it? I mean financially.

This won’t be sole income. We both have main sources of income so at best this would be supplementary income at best case scenario.

Considering a successful campaign - what’s the likely profit percentage received from such a campaign once costs are accounted for? (I wouldn’t include shipping as most of the time that’s put on the buyer)

Thanks again




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[Cardians]

If you were to ask the creators around here or they were to comment, I'm sure most would say the profit is next to nothing after everything is said in done.

Some can probably get away doing this as a full-time job such as JR, as he has the fan base and now a monthly subscription. I'm sure creators like to be paid a little something for their time and dedication behind creating a deck of playing cards.

But as most do, they fall short due to incorrect "quoting" or unexpected "issues" as they like to call it. Selling a deck of playing cards at $12-$14 is already over inflating the prices when in reality the overall cost to print 1000 decks is way less.

Example: A cheap, generic, basic Fontaine deck sell (when released) for $15/deck.
Some print runs are 2500/5000/10,000.
At 2500 x $15/deck = $37,500. It doesn't cost $37k to print 2500 decks unless you bling them out, even then it shouldn't be that much.

So in reality, there is money to be made if you were to fund the decks yourself but using KS to help promote and pay for the decks is also risky when you included KS final fees, deposits, back and forth with proofs, fulfillment costs.

I think that's where people run into turmoil because they under price the deck just to get it funded, later to realize they don't have the funds to get it to their backers. Aka: Eric Mana, Natalia Silva. Read the horror stories behind their past and current deck situations and you might find your answer..

Just cards for thought, but what would I know..

[Jocu]

As someone who's currently funding their second Kickstarter it really is what you make it.

If you intend to just print enough decks to fulfil the pledges and have a few for keepsakes i'd say this is never particularly profitable, and really is more of an artistic project to express yourself and for love of doing it.

However if you were to print many more than you needed, and then had a plan for distributing them through magic shops or online, and then planned to build a brand around it, obviously there's real potential there.

I guess my main point would be that if someone wanted to make money directly from the KS campaign itself then call it a day, I don't think this could ever really be profitable in playing cards. Even the top campaigns get maybe 300 or 400 backers. Average that at 1500 decks needed to fulfil pledges and your cost per deck for the run would make a bit of profit, sure... but probably not worth the six months of work you put into designing, promoting and building hype for the campaign.

So for me, in setting a goal of say, 10k for a campaign I'd expect to fulfil all rewards and have no money left over, but have a stock of around 2000-3000 decks to sell through suppliers and build a brand around. But then it would very much be back to the drawing board...

With my first project, a deck of cards for teaching languages, we have a few hundred decks left and do almost no promotion. We just don't have time. We sell a few here and there but the reason we're taking it more seriously this time is that we know the motivation to constantly promote and push your product is in itself a lot of work, so be prepared to work for it.

Bottom line from this ramble? A KS campaign alone will not give you a worthwhile profit, but you may (as is intended by KS, to be fair) get yourself a nice load of stock to sell and build a business around.

[Ragzzz]

If you were to ask the creators around here or they were to comment, I'm sure most would say the profit is next to nothing after everything is said in done.

Some can probably get away doing this as a full-time job such as JR, as he has the fan base and now a monthly subscription. I'm sure creators like to be paid a little something for their time and dedication behind creating a deck of playing cards.

But as most do, they fall short due to incorrect "quoting" or unexpected "issues" as they like to call it. Selling a deck of playing cards at $12-$14 is already over inflating the prices when in reality the overall cost to print 1000 decks is way less.

Example: A cheap, generic, basic Fontaine deck sell (when released) for $15/deck.
Some print runs are 2500/5000/10,000.
At 2500 x $15/deck = $37,500. It doesn't cost $37k to print 2500 decks unless you bling them out, even then it shouldn't be that much.

So in reality, there is money to be made if you were to fund the decks yourself but using KS to help promote and pay for the decks is also risky when you included KS final fees, deposits, back and forth with proofs, fulfillment costs.

I think that's where people run into turmoil because they under price the deck just to get it funded, later to realize they don't have the funds to get it to their backers. Aka: Eric Mana, Natalia Silva. Read the horror stories behind their past and current deck situations and you might find your answer..

Just cards for thought, but what would I know..

Cheers for this

I’m thinking it might be best simply to do it myself as a once off using say makeyourownplayingcards.com and leave demand to the buyer perhaps?

A single deck will be pricey - but the risk is incredibly low.

Making a few and getting them into certain hands would probably help with potential distribution

Thanks for commenting




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[Ragzzz]

As someone who's currently funding their second Kickstarter it really is what you make it.

If you intend to just print enough decks to fulfil the pledges and have a few for keepsakes i'd say this is never particularly profitable, and really is more of an artistic project to express yourself and for love of doing it.

However if you were to print many more than you needed, and then had a plan for distributing them through magic shops or online, and then planned to build a brand around it, obviously there's real potential there.

I guess my main point would be that if someone wanted to make money directly from the KS campaign itself then call it a day, I don't think this could ever really be profitable in playing cards. Even the top campaigns get maybe 300 or 400 backers. Average that at 1500 decks needed to fulfil pledges and your cost per deck for the run would make a bit of profit, sure... but probably not worth the six months of work you put into designing, promoting and building hype for the campaign.

So for me, in setting a goal of say, 10k for a campaign I'd expect to fulfil all rewards and have no money left over, but have a stock of around 2000-3000 decks to sell through suppliers and build a brand around. But then it would very much be back to the drawing board...

With my first project, a deck of cards for teaching languages, we have a few hundred decks left and do almost no promotion. We just don't have time. We sell a few here and there but the reason we're taking it more seriously this time is that we know the motivation to constantly promote and push your product is in itself a lot of work, so be prepared to work for it.

Bottom line from this ramble? A KS campaign alone will not give you a worthwhile profit, but you may (as is intended by KS, to be fair) get yourself a nice load of stock to sell and build a business around.

Thanks for commenting - this is good food fir thought and I wouldn’t look at this purely as a business venture. More a labour of love

Cheers for commenting


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[Jocu]

As someone who's currently funding their second Kickstarter it really is what you make it.

If you intend to just print enough decks to fulfil the pledges and have a few for keepsakes i'd say this is never particularly profitable, and really is more of an artistic project to express yourself and for love of doing it.

However if you were to print many more than you needed, and then had a plan for distributing them through magic shops or online, and then planned to build a brand around it, obviously there's real potential there.

I guess my main point would be that if someone wanted to make money directly from the KS campaign itself then call it a day, I don't think this could ever really be profitable in playing cards. Even the top campaigns get maybe 300 or 400 backers. Average that at 1500 decks needed to fulfil pledges and your cost per deck for the run would make a bit of profit, sure... but probably not worth the six months of work you put into designing, promoting and building hype for the campaign.

So for me, in setting a goal of say, 10k for a campaign I'd expect to fulfil all rewards and have no money left over, but have a stock of around 2000-3000 decks to sell through suppliers and build a brand around. But then it would very much be back to the drawing board...

With my first project, a deck of cards for teaching languages, we have a few hundred decks left and do almost no promotion. We just don't have time. We sell a few here and there but the reason we're taking it more seriously this time is that we know the motivation to constantly promote and push your product is in itself a lot of work, so be prepared to work for it.

Bottom line from this ramble? A KS campaign alone will not give you a worthwhile profit, but you may (as is intended by KS, to be fair) get yourself a nice load of stock to sell and build a business around.

Thanks for commenting - this is good food fir thought and I wouldn’t look at this purely as a business venture. More a labour of love

Cheers for commenting


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No worries! Regarding MPC I think you’d put off a lot of potential backers. Know your market - who buys cards and what do they want from them? Handling quality is crucial to at least two of the four main audiences.

It would be better to go with a good printer, set a higher goal, and fail than to go with a low quality/low goal and lose out on potential backers by making and inferior product. That’d be my mentality anyway. I crowdfunded a deck of cards using MPC and whilst suitable for hat project, they’re not good enough for magic.

And you’ll be pleasantly surprised at how affordable Cartamundi etc are when you print more than say, 500 decks.

[EndersGame]

If you're starting out, and this is your first project, then I wouldn't aim to make money off it. Your goal should just be to break even - if you're lucky.

There are many hidden expenses along the way - costs of packing, shipping, replacing decks, marketing costs, Kickstarter fees, and much more. It's mainly established artists and creators who have done multiple campaigns and made a name for themselves that can actually start making money off this.

You don't just need experience in graphic design, but also in business and marketing, to do really well. Creating a nice looking deck is only a small part of the equation, and to be successful you need a lot of experience in other areas.

[Adonael]

If you already have a main source of income and the small profit margin covers the time you spend on the deck design and campaign etc then yes it's worth it.

[cardistroy]

If you already have a main source of income and the small profit margin covers the time you spend on the deck design and campaign etc then yes it's worth it.

I agree with the above. I was looking to produce a cardistry deck in 2017 and when I started doing the numbers & considering the costs involved for a large print run, I printed a few decks through MPC, gave some to a few of my friends & was happy with my little project.

[EndersGame]

I agree with some of the latest posts in this thread, but I don't think this is what the original poster is asking. Read his post again:

So - myself and a friend who’s been a graphic designer/illustrator for over 17 years are thinking bout entering the card design and sell market.

First thing. Is it worth it? I mean financially. This won’t be sole income. We both have main sources of income so at best this would be supplementary income at best case scenario.

Considering a successful campaign - what’s the likely profit percentage received from such a campaign once costs are accounted for? (I wouldn’t include shipping as most of the time that’s put on the buyer)

Perhaps he can clarify his question in case I'm misunderstanding. But I think he's asking:

Is it worth doing this to try to get into the market and actually make money?

For that the answer is: No. Don't do this to try to make money. You won't get ahead, because the small profit you might make won't nearly cover all the hours you will spend on creating the artwork and running the project.

But you can also approach it differently, which is how some of the posters in this thread are answering it. Namely if you're asking:

Is it worth doing this if you're an artist and want to actually make some decks for family, friends, and hobbyists?

That's a different question. And then the answer is: Yes. You can actually do this in a way that you won't be out of pocket at the end of the day. And if you're doing all the hours of work in creating art and running the project as a labour of love. Then it's worth doing, and it doesn't have to cost you money.

But it will cost you a lot of time. So if you're doing this as a way of trying to generate revenue and as an alternative income stream, forget it.

[Harvonsgard]

Is it worth it financially is a pretty subjective question. Seeing Jackson pull up in his new Mercedes a while ago in on of his lives and him now employing several people and seeing Kevin Yu (Riffle Shuffle) flexing with hype stuff on his instagram all the time, I would say there is definitely money to be made in this market. The subjective factor is if one wants to put in the hours that e.g. aforementioned did put into their business.

[JacksonRobinson]

Is it worth it financially is a pretty subjective question. Seeing Jackson pull up in his new Mercedes a while ago in on of his lives and him now employing several people and seeing Kevin Yu (Riffle Shuffle) flexing with hype stuff on his instagram all the time, I would say there is definitely money to be made in this market. The subjective factor is if one wants to put in the hours that e.g. aforementioned did put into their business.

LOL Mercedes! I drive a 2012 Toyota Sienna Mini Van

[Harvonsgard]

LOL, my bad. The rented car tricked me.