Apocalisse - Thirdway Industries

[juxtaposed]

The Apocalypse will start

Thursday, 7th of May 2020 - at 15:00 UTC

Earth will tremble. Sky will fall. The entire Universe will shatter.

Be prepared.

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[theCapraAegagrus]

Y'know, a look at the Kings gave me hope for something new, but the Queens are just the same-old. Another pass.

[Decknowledgy]

No one?
"Fine, I'll do it myself" (Thanos voice)

[sms69x]

Something I don't understand is $31 USD for a deck??!! I know it says "The card back will feature gold metallic ink, but may be upgraded with gold cold foil if a certain stretch goal is reached.", so basecally we are asked to pay in advance for a feature that may not be included.. That's probably the first time I see that in a KS project. Don't understand the reasoning, may drop my pledge if the foil is not archieved (or even if it is, very pricy even for a foiled deck.)

[Harvonsgard]

Oof moment seeing the price tag.
I love Gio and a lot of his designs - this included - but he was always on the steep side of card producers which, I don't have a problem with since everyone is free to decide what his work is worth but that price tag is way too steep for me. Especially the retail value above 60$ ...
I know, I know two foils and special paper stock for the tuck box but neither metallic inks nor cold foil are worth more than $25 for me... Hard pass for that price tag.

[portcullis]

Something I don't understand is $31 USD for a deck??!! I know it says "The card back will feature gold metallic ink, but may be upgraded with gold cold foil if a certain stretch goal is reached.", so basecally we are asked to pay in advance for a feature that may not be included.. That's probably the first time I see that in a KS project. Don't understand the reasoning, may drop my pledge if the foil is not archieved (or even if it is, very pricy even for a foiled deck.)

*Strong Australian accent*

Breakfast is served! Now, what else would you like with your bowl of concrete?

[Conturbia]

I'm confident that foil will be achieved, I never saw Giovanni failing a stretch goal

[theCapraAegagrus]

No one?
"Fine, I'll do it myself" (Thanos voice)

Up your GIF game, son.

[shkorc]

I think it's a fair and interesting question, would love to see Gio's comment

[vasta41]

I am a backer for now. Anxious to see the printer. If this is USPCC with MetalLuxe I'll be keeping my pledge. I'd consider Cart. with foil, too.

[vasta41]

Per latest update these will be printed by Cartamundi with foiled backs.

Apocalisse back will be different than the others I've produced so far: the whole back will be golden-foiled, with black and red ink printed over it. This means a spectacular foiled multicolor effect and perfectly accurate design lines.

[Harvonsgard]

That still doesn't justify this price tag imo. Remember HotRS kickstarter price? Remember Montenzi's Hello Tiki kickstarter price? Pepperridge Farm 'members.
But I'll rest my case here and move on.

[Conturbia]

Per latest update these will be printed by Cartamundi with foiled backs.

Apocalisse back will be different than the others I've produced so far: the whole back will be golden-foiled, with black and red ink printed over it. This means a spectacular foiled multicolor effect and perfectly accurate design lines.

See? told ya

[sms69x]

That still doesn't justify this price tag imo. Remember HotRS kickstarter price? Remember Montenzi's Hello Tiki kickstarter price? Pepperridge Farm 'members.
But I'll rest my case here and move on.

Same feeling here... I would consider this price tag for Metaluxe, for cold foil we already know it can be done way cheaper.
Once again, having the backers pay first for something that was eventually archieved is kinda odd for me, can't really understand the reasoning.

Will have to keep an eye on the project an see if any other groundbreaking feature is included (Metalluxe maybe) otherwise will have to pass on this. Still I congratulate Giovanni for going with just one deck this time, is a very nice move and is one of the things that may lead me to keep the pledge... I'll see..

[Thirdway Industries]

I was almost sure to unlock foil on backs, I was just waiting some replies from Cartamundi to confirm.
I still don't have ALL the answers I wanted, but at least they confirmed the deck is doable (and it would look "great" in their opinion)
Others printers were backup plans for "worst cases" - those days are not easy for plan productions: replies are slower than usual and prices are overall higher.

A note - I really love USPCC and it's usually my first choice for countless reasons. However, I don't think they can achieve with Metalluxe the fully-foiled back I wanted for this project.

Thank you for the incredible support!

[Thirdway Industries]

@Sergio - Actually Cartamundi Foil is more expensive than Metalluxe.

I am aware of this because I have also Italia Divina in production, and the quote I got for Apocalisse is (way) higher than it.

This may be influenced from the nature of the design, since the whole back of Apocalisse is foiled and overprinted.

Thank you for the feedback!

Gio

[montenzi]

the whole back will be golden-foiled, with black and red ink printed over it.

Check this with Cartamundi! As far as I know, you cannot use gold foil AND print on top of it. They use silver foil if you need to print on top. Any "gold" will be overprinted with your own gold color if there are other colors than gold on a back (i.e., No.7 Queen's hair is a gradient gold overprint, not just gold foil). Printing black on top of foil is going to be fun. On the other hand, you can use silver for some elements of the design without any overprint.

[Adonael]

so basecally we are asked to pay in advance for a feature that may not be included..

Yeah, that's how stretch goals work... If it isn't already somewhat built into the price then where will the build up of extra money come from to pay for the stretch goal? This your first time on Kickstarter? Because that is exactly how the system has always worked, within the breathing room.

I will admit I also had some sticker shock on the price after I backed and actually saw the price though. 60% the price of the entire Divina trident, although who's to say that the limited Divina deck wasn't close to 60% of the cost of the three decks? I also want to point out that (although it was also foiled on the faces) the Black Monolith was only 2 euro less than this, and the Gold Monolith was far more. Just food for thought.

[Thirdway Industries]

the whole back will be golden-foiled, with black and red ink printed over it.

Check this with Cartamundi! As far as I know, you cannot use gold foil AND print on top of it. They use silver foil if you need to print on top. Any "gold" will be overprinted with your own gold color if there are other colors than gold on a back (i.e., No.7 Queen's hair is a gradient gold overprint, not just gold foil). Printing black on top of foil is going to be fun. On the other hand, you can use silver for some elements of the design without any overprint.

I have asked Cartamundi exactly this - I wasn't sure if I had to use silver and overprint gold, red and black or use gold foil and overprint just black and red.
They confirmed the best option was gold foil + 2 overprinting inks. Maybe it's possible on gold because I am using solid Pantone colors, without gradients.
Anyways, let's see, this is the first time I am doing this - I hope it will turn awesome as I think.

Thank you for the heads up

[sms69x]

@Sergio - Actually Cartamundi Foil is more expensive than Metalluxe.

Thank you for the info Gio, this is new to me. We are so used to see Metaluxe decks in the 30 dollar mark and Cold Foil in the 25 that we assume that cold foil is cheaper than metalluxe.
So basecally this high price is due to the fact that you'll be using a full foiled back and then print over it, is this correct? I recall montenzi doing a simillar thing, although it was on the faces, and the price is way lower!
I'm just trying to make sense of the price, of course you're entitled to ask whatever amout you want.

so basecally we are asked to pay in advance for a feature that may not be included..

Yeah, that's how stretch goals work... If it isn't already somewhat built into the price then where will the build up of extra money come from to pay for the stretch goal? This your first time on Kickstarter?

Yeah, this is my first time supporting a project where I was asked to pay for a feature of the product that may not be delivered. And this is not how stretch goals work.

[Thirdway Industries]

Yes, the main feature of Apocalisse is the full-foil on back plus printing. Cartamundi quote is very high, more than I expected (however, project is going well so I can afford it).
I suppose the price is influenced by the amount of foil used and the extra plates for the overprinting. Honestly, I have very few informations too, Cartamundi is not very resposive in Covid-era.

About the stretch goal... I agree the best would have been say from the start "the deck will have foil on back", but I was not 100% sure that I could do that.
I am still a "one man band" who rely on third parties to produce, and I prefer be safe than overpromise and disappoint

The pricing structure is based on my "usual" TWI exclusives, like Monolith and Pantheon - single deck is relatively expensive, but very good compared to retail - as usual on my Kickstarter.
Shipping should be reasonable for "Zone1" and higher tiers should scale very well. This deck won't be sold to stores/wholesalers of course.

Thank you for the feedback!

[sms69x]

Thank you Giovanni. That clarifies things up!

[Adonael]

Per the latest update, an extra special and limited edition of Apocalisse will be produced called the Wrath of God and offered to backers. This is essentially the same thing as the Gold Monolith, with double foil tuck and gilded cards. The Gold Monolith is one of my favourite TWI decks, let's hope this can live up to it!

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[Thirdway Industries]

Hello UC!

Last week I received some Apocalisse Decks (just the cards) from Cartamundi. I am very happy with the result and the fast delivery, probably this project will arrive in August (hopefully with Italia Divina).
There are some pics attached, but if you want more, check this > https://www.thirdwayindustries.com/product/apocalisse/

The print on foil was achieved perfectly, both red and gold shine a lot - plus registration looks perfect and metallic inks on front are awesome.

Since decks will be ready soon, I am going to close the preorders during the next days. If you are interested, take a look to BackerKit store > https://apocalisse.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders

I hope you like the result so far, can't wait to share more!

[BaconWise]

Cartamundi Checklist:

- Perfect Registration? CHECK
- Perfect Foil? CHECK
- Perfect Metallic Inks? CHECK
- Fast turnaround? CHE----wait, what?! Are you using the same Cartamundi, Gio? This is great news and the cards look amazing. Cheers

[Timmargh]

I love this card so much that I'm tempted to make it my new avatar.

[Thirdway Industries]

@Baconwise - I am shocked (positively) as well, Cartamundi was really fast this time.

@Tim - It's one of my favourite as well [MURRAY] I've attached an UC avatar with the Apocalisse's Death so you can use it, if you want

[chicken_ql]

I like it alot too, would it be possible to make as a mobile screen saver?

[Timmargh]

@Tim - It's one of my favourite as well [MURRAY] I've attached an UC avatar with the Apocalisse's Death so you can use it, if you want

Marvellous, thank you.

-

I USHERED SOULS INTO THE NEXT WORLD. I WAS THE GRAVE OF ALL HOPE. I WAS THE ULTIMATE REALITY. I WAS THE ASSASSIN AGAINST WHOM NO LOCK WOULD HOLD.
"Yes, point taken, but do you have any particular skills?"

[Bradius]

Well great. Now Timmargh has a scary Avatar. Okay Timmargh, could you move a little to the right so I can get a clean shot?