2019 'Deck of the Year' Awards: DISCUSSION

[PipChick]

Hi y'all!

With 2019 drawing to a close and the new year quickly approaching, I know we're all starting to feel the build up of anticipation and excitement as the arrival of November unofficially marks and kicks off the mad-rush start of that magical time of the year... a time in which we all can begin to look back and reflect fondly upon the past and come together as friends and family to begin planning celebration of all that we hold dearest with our annual holiday traditions... That's right folks! The UC DOTYs season is upon us! yay!

Now, although I recognize that I haven't been very active publicly in the threads lately which has, understandably, prompted several UC baes to kindly reach out over the past couple weeks to confirm management of the DOTYs as done last year, I have in fact already been quietly working behind the scenes on organizing and preparing for the DOTYs and would very much be honored to once again take the lead in helping to manage this awesome community event if y'all would allow me to

Regardless, the first step is opening this thread which is specifically created for the intended purpose of providing all members and potential prospective members with the opportunity for open discussion on literally any and all things relating to the running and managing of the DOTYs; so please, don't be shy - join in on the conversation! In the weeks leading up to the DOTYs, many of the specific details of the event will always be first and foremost addressed and discussed right here in this thread so be sure to stay tuned! Participation from anyone and everyone is not only encouraged but also greatly appreciated because it's only with all of you that we can make this year's DOTYs the very best ever! YAY!

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Okay, so despite trying to be as clear and concise as I could, I know this first posting is going to be a bit long so I hope it helps to break it up into different sections to keep information organized and in order of highest priority as it aligns in keeping on track with our schedule so things will run smoothly:

1.) DOTY TIMELINE

It may feel like we're getting the ball rollin' a bit late this year in organizing and preparing for this year's event, but all honesty, we're actually very much still on schedule with our tentative timeline as loosely outlined below:

• [✔] early-November : open DOTY Discussions Thread and begin discussions regarding organization/planning of this year's event

• [_] late-November :
  • Master List of 2019 Deck releases ('Upcoming Decks of 2019' google doc) will be updated to be as comprehesive as possible and ready/available in it's entirety on Monday, Nov. 25th. The Master List/google doc will continue to be updated until the very end of the 2019 calander year so be sure to check often and remember to keep in mind that all end-of-the-year releases within the 2019 calendar year are also still very much eligible for DOTY recognition
  • DOTY Nominations Thread with final list of agreed upon Award Categories will be opened on Monday, Nov. 25th
  • submission of deck/designer nominations for DOTY recognition will be open for acceptance during a full, 6-week time period from Monday, Nov. 25th - Monday, Jan. 6th, 2020 and thread will be constantly updated to reflect those nominations submitted until close of time period as stated

• [_] December :
  • start informal promo outside of UC (Reddit, Facebook, IG, Youtube, etc.) to encourage early registration/participation of new members
  • seek out sponsorship/giveaway donations from designers & retailers
  • open Prize Donations thread to where we will be accepting giveaway prizes from donors/sponsors

• [_] mid-December : open *OFFICIAL* DOTY Thread with all finalized rules/information regarding event and voter prize giveaway

• [_] late-December : start formal promo outside of UC (Reddit, Facebook, IG, Youtube, etc.)

• [_] early-January (10th) : *** VOTING OFFICIALLY OPENS on Friday, Jan. 10th, 2020 ***

• [_] late-January (31st) : *** VOTING OFFICIALLY CLOSES on Friday, Jan. 31st, 2020 ***

• [_] early-February :
  • all casted votes will be tabulated & double-checked for accuracy
  • award placement finalized
  • promo graphics made

• [_] mid-February (10th) : DOTY award winners officially announced

• [_] mid-February (17th) : DOTY prize giveaway winners officially announced

• [_] late-February :
  • official conclusion of DOTY event
  • reflection and evaluation of year's event

As we continue with planning, this timeline here above will be edited and kept up-to-date to reflect our current progress in the big countdown leading up to the DOTYs... aren't y'all excited already? I know I am lol

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2.) TOPICS OF IMPORTANCE TO ADDRESS

• [✔] Timeline : see above - yay or nay on tentative dates? anything else we're missing?

• [✔] Dates of Nominations : submission of deck/designer nominations for DOTY recognition will be open for accpetance during a full, 6-week time period from Monday, Nov. 25th - Monday, Jan. 6th, 2020 and thread will be constantly updated to reflect those nominations submitted until close of time period as stated

• [✔] Dates of Voting : official open voting preriod of UC's DOTY event has been changed to run from Friday, Jan. 10th - Friday, Jan. 31st, 2020

• [_] DOTY Award Categories : we need to have a finalized consensus from the community of those award categories we want to recognize in this year's DOTYs by the time we begin accepting submissions for Nominations and, tbh, preferrably earlier for when the thread is opened - Award Categories recognized last year included:
  
  • Best Tuck Case
  • Best Ace
  • Best Joker(s)
  • Best Gaff/Extra Card(s)
  • Best Pips
  • Best Courts
  • Best Use of Color
  • Best Back
  • Best Deck for Fanning
  • Best Deck for Cardistry
  • Best Deck for Magic
  • Best Non-Poker Deck
  • Best Rookie Deck
  • Best Innovation
  • Best Overall Deck

• Any that need to be changed, added and/or removed?
  Possible inclusion of one or more of the following categories into this year's DOTY awards as suggested by the community:
  
  • 'Best Art Deck'
  • 'Best Branded Deck'
  give us your thoughts!

• [_] Master List of 2019 Deck Releases : the 'Upcoming Decks of 2019' google doc will likely be the most comprehensive list of all the decks released over the past year and may be used as a reference for nomination submissions. Currently, it is still being worked on and I hope to have it up-to-date by the time the Nominations thread is opened. Overall, I'm confident to say that a vast majority of decks that have thus far been released in 2019, starting at the very bottom of the doc with early releases up until now, have been already included and the best way for people to view each deck, albeit time-consuming, is by clicking through the links provided. As I said, this is *NOT* yet finished as I still have to back track much of last month in particular and go through a lot to ensure it's accuracy so please be patient and I'll be sure to let you all know when it more up-to-date

• [✔] Nominations : did it work last year? was it helpful? yay or nay? anything that could/should be improved upon? Nomination process will be implemented again this year; thread will be opened and submissions of nominated decks to be recognized in this year's event will be accepted by any members of the UC community

• [_] Promotional Graphic(s) : do you or perhaps someone you know have the skillz to create a promotional graphic or few for UC? Would you wanna get involved and help out? Last year, I was able to recruit the help of a designer friend of mine to take the time to make 2 graphics for us and, in combo with my own very limited skills, just simply added clipart to them for reuse several times over in promotion of the DOTYs both here at UC as well as reddit, IG and FB... but, since this *is* a community event, it'd be great if there's perhaps someone within the UC community that would also be willing to donate whatever time/effort they may have towards working together to create something for our event. If not, I suppose I can resort back once again to asking my friend to create something as a personal favor with the understanding from all of you that it is a personal favor and we'd be giving her free reign to create something as she'd like it which would likely look similar to what we used last year... I dunno how y'all felt about the promo last year but, again, not being a person that has the skillz to create something on my own, it was honestly the best I could do with what I had So this year, any suggestions or constructive criticism, or help would be greatly appreciated from all of us

• [_] Rules of Participation & Voting : please first refer to those stated in last year's event here and please feel free to bring up any areas you see that have been or may be a potential area of concern so we can work on improvement

• [_] Announcement of DOTY Award Winners & Prize Giveaway Winners : as you may or may not have noticed, the tentative DOTY timeline above currently has the annoucement of the DOTY Award Winners & the Prize Giveaway Winners scheduled one week apart - I propose that we make this change so that the Giveaway aspect of our event does not overshadow the honor and recognition of the DOTY Award Winners... any thoughts? yay or nay?

• [_] Prize Giveaway Contest : we absolutely will need to implement a new rule about a time-limit by which giveaway winners must claim thier prize within. I very much still stand by many of my own sentiments regarding last year's issues of AWOL participants as stated here but would love to hear what y'all think regarding the scenario brought forth and how we can most effectively avoid running into such issues again in this year's event

• [_] Additional concerns : anything else y'all would like to see be addressed? Questions? Comments? Concerns? Suggestions? Please don't hesitate to express anything on your mind regarding the DOTYs and we'll absolutely include it to this list and do our best to discuss it. The goal with this thread is not only give you the opportunity to do so but also for all of us to, the best of our collective ability as a community, come to a consensus in how this event is managed and run - as I said before, the DOTYs are for all of you! So get involved and voice your thoughts on how we can make it bigger and better than ever for everyone!

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[Harvonsgard]

Awesome to see you back here. Feels always a bit empty without Pip.

Deck of the year Fable final version, period.
I dunno if Room17 will be elagible since it is an quasi just an updated version of last year’s winner. But even if, Fable takes the cake.

Best Deck for Fanning is twice on your list. One for best fanned design and one for smoothest fanning experience?

[PipChick]

Awesome to see you back here. Feels always a bit empty without Pip.

Aw, thanks babe! y'all are forever my favs xo

. . . . .

I dunno if Room17 will be elagible since it is an quasi just an updated version of last year’s winner.

Well, as per the rules of last year's DOTYs in regards to Eligible Decks;

• • Reissued variations/editions of established decks released prior to 2018 may be declared ineligible if no significant change(s) were made to the original design. Reprinted decks are not eligible at all.

Therefore, if this rule continues to be followed for this year's DOTYs, Room17 will unfortunately not be eligible for nomination and/or to receive an award for this year.

. . . . .

Best Deck for Fanning is twice on your list. One for best fanned design and one for smoothest fanning experience?

yup, oversight on my end that's now been fixed - thanks!

[MagikFingerz]

I dunno if Room17 will be elagible since it is an quasi just an updated version of last year’s winner.

Well, as per the rules of last year's DOTYs in regards to Eligible Decks;

Reissued variations/editions of established decks released prior to 2018 may be declared ineligible if no significant change(s) were made to the original design. Reprinted decks are not eligible at all.

Therefore, if this rule continues to be followed for this year's DOTYs, Room17 will unfortunately not be eligible for nomination and/or to receive an award for this year.

How about allowing decks to be voted for in, for example, Best Tuck if the deck features a new tuck? I'd be ok with that.

And yes, it's very good to see you back

[PipChick]

I dunno if Room17 will be elagible since it is an quasi just an updated version of last year’s winner.

Well, as per the rules of last year's DOTYs in regards to Eligible Decks;

Reissued variations/editions of established decks released prior to 2018 may be declared ineligible if no significant change(s) were made to the original design. Reprinted decks are not eligible at all.

Therefore, if this rule continues to be followed for this year's DOTYs, Room17 will unfortunately not be eligible for nomination and/or to receive an award for this year.

How about allowing decks to be voted for in, for example, Best Tuck if the deck features a new tuck? I'd be ok with that.

hmmm... true - I suppose it would qualify for the 'Best Tuck Case' category as it is a completely new tuck case and, I suppose, could potentially be eligible for other categories such as 'Best Joker' and/or 'Best Gaff/Extra Card(s)' if it did in fact feature completely new designs and not just slight variations of those exsisting in it's predecessor - Thanks for the perspective! Definitely hadn't considered that but you're absolutely right! In those instances, it should still qualify for consideration... I'll allow it!

Rules regarding eligible decks will be amended and added to for clarification of this particular point of consideration in nominating/voting for decks - stay tuned!

[Magic Tapp]

PipChick - welcome back!

Thanks for volunteering (again!) to do all the hard work around DoTY - you are a rock star!

In terms of categories, i know that I will be at the receiving end of the cardists’ wrath here but do we really need three separate categories for fanning, cardistry and magic? Is decent fanning not a prerequisite for a good cardistry deck?

[Bradius]

I kind of had the same thoughts on Room17. It should be considered only for what was unique to it as opposed to same from last year. Otherwise, Lorenzo could keep getting "multiple bites at the apple" for that deck.

I am fine with the timeline. Perhaps even less time for voting. I would prefer we get things wrapped up sooner if possible. That said, I am fine. Whatever works for you.

I am, of course, fine with you running things again. I frankly have a hard time imagining it done by anyone else now.

I am fine with the categories. There was some substantial debate on the Best Fanning and Best Cardistry categories. I even had two different decks I recommended for each category and I think we ended up with different decks. For fanning, I am looking at what deck really looks great in a fan. For Cardistry, it is a lot more. What looks great in cardistry moves. Handling and such can also play a role. Keep in mind this community has its foundations in cardistry. A for magic, well, that is totally different. There are some decks that just are great for magicians. Likely the new Butterfly decks for example will be considered, which wouldn't likely make the cut for fanning or cardistry. At least that is my 2 cents on the subject.

There are still a lot of decks that hopefully will get shipped before the 2019 deadline.

[MagikFingerz]

Amy - welcome back!

Thanks for volunteering (again!) to do all the hard work around DoTY - you are a rock star!

In terms of categories, i know that I will be at the receiving end of the cardists’ wrath here but do we really need three separate categories for fanning, cardistry and magic? Is decent fanning not a prerequisite for a good cardistry deck?

We've been through this quite a few times now. No, it absolutely isn't. Sometimes, but often not. An example off the top of my head would be Randy's Draconian decks being better for fanning (IMO) than, say, The Virts' decks, which are made purely for cardistry. Cardistry decks more often focus on aesthetics that lend themselves well to packet cuts and spins.

[PipChick]

In terms of categories, i know that I will be at the receiving end of the cardists’ wrath here but do we really need three separate categories for fanning, cardistry and magic? Is decent fanning not a prerequisite for a good cardistry deck?

There's probably no other award categories that stir up nearly as much of a debate as to whether or not they seprately deserve their places in the DOTYs as these ones and, as was brought up and discussed last year here, there were/are some very compelling arguments as to why they should remain as is, including;

It seems like Tom or I have to address this every year. Fanning is a major subset of Cardistry as a whole and important enough to merit it's own category. Of all the cardistry moves, fanning is the one aspect of cardistry that is the most specifically affected by playing card design. Finally, I think it would be a travesty to have cardistry reduced to a single lone category for a contest sponsored by a site that originated as a cardistry forum.

How many times do we need to do this?

Typical good fanning elements: Full-bleed, corner elements visible in spreads, a back design pattern that blends well with itself.

For these reasons, love it or hate it, the categories will remain as they are.

Typical good cardistry elements: Bold borders and a back design with larger elements (making them look good in cuts and displays), circular center element that lends itself to spins.

There are probably more, but these should be enough to make the point that these are two categories with very different criteria.

So, as it stands as of now - love it or hate it - the categories will remain as they are as two seprate categories in this year's DOTYs

[BaconWise]

Looks like a good setup, Pip!

Can we consider adding best Kickstarter campaign as a category?

[Decknowledgy]

Thanks for doing all this, Da Chick!!
Glad to know that you're still fully in control of the DOTY awards and discussions, really looking forward to what decks would be nominated for voting!

I was also thinking could we add a "Best Transformation Deck" category? There seems to be an overabundance of transformation decks this year, and these decks don't seem to fit anywhere in the original categories. Mostly the pips are traditional and unchanged but rather the illustrations that move and "transform" around the pips. They don't fit in the best courts category as well since all cards are illustrated as full as the court cards themselves or even beyond.

What do folks think?

[Timmargh]

Great to see you, PipChick!

[Outsider]

I was also thinking could we add a "Best Transformation Deck" category? There seems to be an overabundance of transformation decks this year, and these decks don't seem to fit anywhere in the original categories. Mostly the pips are traditional and unchanged but rather the illustrations that move and "transform" around the pips. They don't fit in the best courts category as well since all cards are illustrated as full as the court cards themselves or even beyond.

I agree with this, there are some great transformation decks being made and they should be judged as a whole work, not just courts.

[brownsl]

I was also thinking could we add a "Best Transformation Deck" category? There seems to be an overabundance of transformation decks this year, and these decks don't seem to fit anywhere in the original categories. Mostly the pips are traditional and unchanged but rather the illustrations that move and "transform" around the pips. They don't fit in the best courts category as well since all cards are illustrated as full as the court cards themselves or even beyond.

What do folks think?

I agree also.

[STLBluesNut]

I for one liked doing and looking at the nominations last year, so I would like to see that thread again.

And a big thank you for your spreadsheet last year and I am very happy to see it return. As I started collecting in augustish, it was so very helpful.

Thank you.

Sent from my S10+ using Tapatalk

[Eric Lee]

This would be ironic, but can Rick Davidsons' UC 2018 Deck for the 2019 DOTY categories? Are UC decks allowed to be nominated in the first place? I think the straight answer is yes, but just to be sure.

[caniveski]

nice to see you doing this again after a great job last year

[shermjack]

PipChick, you're the best! Thanks, again!

[PipChick]

Can we consider adding best Kickstarter campaign as a category?

I really like this idea, and this is a category that has been suggested here last year... yet, these were my thoughts about it then:

• I also really like best crowdfunding project. A series like Apothecary II, Elixer, The Planets comes to mind, and also those campaigns that communicate well and get their rewards sent on time or ahead of time. Yes, this is another good category in my opinion.

  The thing with the 'Best Crowdfunding Project' category is that not every backer's experience is going to be similar and I think that can greatly vary between US backers vs. International backers in particular. Also, when we're tollin' out praise for such things as "good communication" and "delivering on time", it kinda feels like it's just a glorified participation category - creators should already be striving for that as a minimum to managing a campaign - it's their responsibility to be keeping us updated on projects and, while delays can and do occur, that's not necessarily within the control of the creator and I don't think should negatively reflect on their overall management of a project.
  
  Take a look at the case with Lorenzo on the HotRS project in which he clearly and concisely laid out every step of the process in every component of the project and the current status of each (even took the time to do so with simple visuals) which, I think we can all agree, is going waaay above and beyond in that regard and greatly appreciated. But on the other hand, the project was, ultimately, late by 2 months and for me personally, I ended up having to change my shipping arrangements and eat the additional costs in doing so; does that mean that the project wasn't 'good' or ran well? I wouldn't by any means even consider it so - on the contrary, a very well run campaign worthy of praise; but was it "the best"? maybe for some, others maybe not so much. But would another campaign that might be equally well managed and delivered on time or ahead of schedule despite having waaay less components and moving parts to it really be considered "better"? I dunno, to me, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

Also, this poses the question as to whether someone can/should be voting on projects that they perhaps weren't actually a part of? and if not, wouldn't that just lead to those projects that had attracted the most backers to have the highest chance of winning this category by default? It'd be like a popularity contest that has sooooo many variables that backers aren't even aware of so it'd be difficult to really assess what makes one project better over another and perhaps an award moreso based only on exposure and personal aspects attributed towards the designer themself rather than for skillful management and/or the deck they've designed.

For all these reasons, I'm personally not in favor of adding this category cuz, simply put, I wanna keep the design of the cards the focus of the DOTY awards and very little else as to avoid people casting votes based on personal matters or favoritism towards one designer over another.

. . . . .

Thanks for doing all this, Da Chick!!
Glad to know that you're still fully in control of the DOTY awards and discussions, really looking forward to what decks would be nominated for voting!

I was also thinking could we add a "Best Transformation Deck" category? There seems to be an overabundance of transformation decks this year, and these decks don't seem to fit anywhere in the original categories. Mostly the pips are traditional and unchanged but rather the illustrations that move and "transform" around the pips. They don't fit in the best courts category as well since all cards are illustrated as full as the court cards themselves or even beyond.

What do folks think?

There certainly have been quite a few transformation decks to have been released this year but, even off the top of my head, are there really enough to have an entire category devoted only for these very specific niche types of decks? What about in cases of semi-transformation decks? or those decks that wouldn't really be consided either because perhaps the designs only have semi-transformational features as seen, for example, in the art of the Cult Movie Cards? I know I'm splitting hairs here but I think the category would be awfully narrow and, even if this year we've been fortunate to have seen a few released (more than in another year I might add), will there be just as many to justify the award category to remain for next year or other year's thereafter? I'm not so sure nor confident that there would be...

HOWEVER, now with that said, I would agree that transformation decks and art decks never seem to really quite fit into any of the categories we currently have so often times these types of decks get overlooked and definitely don't recieve nearly the amount of recognition that they often deserve for all the extra work that goes into them. So, perhaps rather than narrowing a category down only to 'Best Transformation Deck', maybe we can simply create a category similar to that of the 'Best Non-Poker Deck' that would allow to be a sort of catch-all for those types of decks that don't quite fit in anywhere else and just broadly name it 'Best Art Deck'. I mean, aren't transformation decks just a sub-set of a very specific type of art deck anyways? Would this be a fair and practical compromise? Thoughts?

. . . . .

This would be ironic, but can Rick Davidsons' UC 2018 Deck for the 2019 DOTY categories? Are UC decks allowed to be nominated in the first place? I think the straight answer is yes, but just to be sure.

It most certainly is eligible and would qualify for an award if the votes deem it worth but, as a reminder, please be voting on the merit of the deck design and not solely on the co-branding collab of our annual deck lol - I know we all got mad UC love but let's keep our DOTY awards legit lol

[vasta41]

Thoughts?

I could be wrong but in the past I believe there was a 'Best Uncut Sheet' category. I think a transformation deck could definitely fall in that category AND it would also help just in case there isn't a really good transformation deck during one particular year. Because a non-transformation deck could also fit in that category. I also don't see why a transformation deck couldn't be considered in the 'Best Non-Poker Deck' category.

Speaking of my personal opinions, I figure now is as good a time as any to bring up my usual gripes with this contest:
THERE NEEDS TO BE A 'BEST BICYCLE-BRANDED DECK' CATEGORY. I've been begging for this for years now to no avail. I could go on for days arguing this but the TL;DR version is that it takes a certain amount of skill to incorporate a design into a preexisting format. People will always argue whether or not Bicycle branding adds to or ruins a deck but that's neither here nor there. Whether you like it or not it's iconic and deserves it's own category for designs that incorporate it.
COMBINE ALL THE XCM CATEGORIES INTO ONE. This has already been brought up (as it always is) before this thread was even 12 hours old but here's my argument- It doesn't matter if you cut, fan, spin, flourish, etc. Just vote for your favorite. If a good fanning deck is released during a particular year and it gets more votes than a good cutting deck then so be it. Cy Young's were just given out to the best pitchers in baseball. Not a separate award to the best fastball, off speed, change up pitcher, etc. the best pitcher, period. I believe it would behoove us to follow in MLB's path.
ADD A 'BEST PLAYING CARD ACCESSORY' CATEGORY. Whether it's a coin, a display case, a mini pizza box, etc. I think this would be a fun addition to the contest and replace the old 'Best Coin' category (which I personally always hated because this is UnitedCardists, not UnitedCoinists). Another idea could be to make two separate categories since there are so many different display cases released each year- 'Best Playing Card Display' and 'Best KS Add-On' or something of the like.

That's all I have for now this early. I need more coffee before I step higher on my soap box.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Jeez. If I knew that all it would take is a contest to lure you back...

[Harvonsgard]

Regarding Transformation decks I would agree that they deserve an own category. I personally do not differenciate that much between semi-transformation and transformation therefore they are both in the same category for me. The point with not having much of them and therefore broaden the category as Best Art Deck is understandable, but kind of ... dunno how to say it. Art is such a broad word.

Since I'm not backing Kickstarters, I don't really have some eggs in that basket regarding a crowdfunding award. I'm always a bit turned of by awards that have too many categories and Amy mentioned some good points against it. So I would personally tend to nay. But I'm not opposing it and since an award is always subjective therefore, I would be totally fine if backers want to give an extra award for well made campaigns. Doesn't matter for me if some define best as either good trailers/renders/microsites or best stucture of pledge tiers or smoothest managment or whatnot.

Best Bicycle Branded was nay, for me too. Felt redundant at first but it grew on me. Veto on my nay and make it a yea!

The point for combining the XCM categories kind of contradicts your own point regarding Bicycle branded decks. ... and baseball sucks anyway

ADD A 'BEST PLAYING CARD ACCESSORY' CATEGORY. Whether it's a coin, a display case, a mini pizza box, etc. I think this would be a fun addition to the contest and replace the old 'Best Coin' category (which I personally always hated because this is UnitedCardists, not UnitedCoinists).

+1

[vasta41]

The point for combining the XCM categories kind of contradicts your own point regarding Bicycle branded decks. ... and baseball sucks anyway

The Bicycle logo is the most recognized and famous among playing cards. The USPCC and many other deck designers/creators release tons (hundreds?) of custom Bicycle-branded decks per year. I believe that due to it's yearly unwavering popularity and the vast amount produced each year that they deserves they're own category.
XCM-specific decks have only been around/popular for what, 10 years maybe? And while there may be around the same amount of unique XCM and Bicycle-branded decks as a whole per year, there are not nearly as many in each individual subcategory. (For example, there are far more Bicycle-branded decks released each year than there are fanning decks or flourishing decks, etc.) Thus, I believe that due to it's only recent popularity and the small amount produced each year that they too deserve they're own category, as a whole.

So I think comparing those two points are apples and oranges but regardless I don't see the contradiction.

[Harvonsgard]

To be honest, despite being heavily interested in cardistry itself and a huge admirer of that art, most cardistry decks don't even really bother me. Even the ones with a bit more thought going into them. I'm even one of the guys that enjoy the flat cardistry decks like fontaines, because then, nothing from the cards is distracting from the cuts and flourishes performed in videos. So while I personally don't care at all for a Best Fanning Deck and would be fine with them all merged into one XCM category, I find the points, laid out by shinjin and Magik, which Pip quoted, are good and valid. But I'll go with whatever is decided.

[PipChick]

I am fine with the timeline. Perhaps even less time for voting. I would prefer we get things wrapped up sooner if possible. That said, I am fine. Whatever works for you.

Personally, I too would love to get the DOTYs wrapped up sooner rather than later as it seems a bit off to be celebrating the best of the best from the past year when we're already well into the new year; however, I'm uneasy about commiting to take on so much over the holidays... At the very earliest, I'd still feel comfortable if we moved up voting to perhaps a week or so (maybe the to the 10th only cause I think round numbers/dates are easiest for people to remember lol)

However, I did notice that even though we had set up to have voting open for an entire month to ensure all that wanted to vote had the time and opportunity to do so, the vast majority of those that did choose to participate submitted their votes within the first week and then we had another last minute surge in the final few days leading up to the closing of voting. I believe this largely had to do with the fact that 1.) we had started preparation last year so early and 2.) because, collectively, y'all had done a fairly great job in recognizing and nominating awesome decks in each and every category for consideration. As expressed by some, this not only seemed to make voting a bit easier, but also kept the DOTYs on people's minds so when the time did come to vote, people seemed to need less time in deciding upon their votes as they, assumingly, had already made up their minds during the several weeks leading up to the event and from having seen the nominated contenders up for consideration so many times over.

So, not only can we move up voting by about a week to Jan. 10th, but we could also, if y'all would like, shorten the time period in which voting is open to, say 3 weeks to be safe rather than a month-long period to vote... what do y'all think?

Would Jan. 10th - Jan. 31st be a more suitable voting period??

Btw, not that it *really* matters, but the 31st is my B-day so I'd likely put off DOTY stuff that following weekend... Regardless, I will still need at least a week to tabulate and double- & triple-check votes to ensure accuracy before announcing the winners which, with this proposed timeline would be approximately February 10th (again, I like even numbers/dates lol )

The sooner we have our dates fixed, the sooner we can plan accordingly in regards to promo and such. I will say though that shortening the time period AND moving everything up a bit sooner does put on a bit more pressure to get the word out... with that in mind, I'd really REALLY appreciate that when the time comes (mid-December through end-January), y'all will try to help out a bit by sharing and spreading the word about the DOTYs to anyone and everyone that may be interested in checkin' out our event here at UC. I'm only one person and getting the graphics together and posting across multiple social medias as well as getting the word out to as many people as possible is incredibly time consuming so any and all help is SUPER GREATLY appreciated. Even just mentioning it in casual convos with friends is helpful and reposts on your own social medias or sharing the link to the official thread would really go a long way. One issue we seemed to have last year was that many new members didn't realize that messaging privileges are not granted right away, so early registration should also be a priority in promoting the DOTYs so if they want to participate in the vote, they'll be able to. Anyways, as I said, simply informing people about UC and what we're all about really does go a long way and every little bit will help in making the DOTYs bigger and better for all of us. Thanks in advance!

. . . . .

Thoughts?

I could be wrong but in the past I believe there was a 'Best Uncut Sheet' category. I think a transformation deck could definitely fall in that category AND it would also help just in case there isn't a really good transformation deck during one particular year. Because a non-transformation deck could also fit in that category. I also don't see why a transformation deck couldn't be considered in the 'Best Non-Poker Deck' category.

yes, we did have a 'Best Uncut' category in the past, but part of the reason it had been cut (haha, I'm still punny and you know it ) from our line-up is that we were/are trying to keep the DOTYs as streamlined as possible since having sooo many categories and feels of being overwhelmed was one expressed reason people had pointed to as choosing not to participate in the past. This is also why I'm a bit resistant to continue to add any more than perhaps 1 new 'Best Art Deck' category... This was actually a compromise I had suggested last year to these very same concerns here by my love rouselle:

• Which brings to mind a couple other things:
  
  Uncuts can be awesome. Yes, they are peripheral to the finished product, but when they stand out, they really do stand out. They acknowledge the art decks and semi-transformation decks, really. Look at past year's winners. Think about decks that have come out this year. Do you think there was a deck that came out this year that may have had a stand-out uncut version? Is it worth acknowledging that some decks are just so pretty you could hang them on a wall for display? For me, this is like the Oscar's "Best Cinematography" category. What is so beautiful that you just want to capture it in a frame and admire it?
  
  The coins category used to be the Best Accessory category, and as such, would have included cover guards, clear card cases, poker chips, daggers, what-have-you. I'm fine with dropping this category outright, since sentiment seems headed that way, but I can also see an argument for reverting back to "Best Accessory."
  
  ...
  
  Does it make sense to add a "Best Art Deck" category? This could give transformation & semi-transformation decks, art decks that are otherwise really not good for playing, magic, or cardistry, and Ultimate Deck-style decks a place to be acknowledged. Just a thought.

  rousselle, my love, I totally understand where you're coming from with "Best Uncut" category, but I beg to differ in regards to its inclusion as a category; not to go off on a tangent, but ultimately, the awards are about recognizing awesome playing cards and, in an effort to streamline the number of categories we have, I just don't think this one should make the cut (no pun intended lol ). Although, I think a fair compromise would be replacing it with a "Best Art Deck" category and personally, I'd be totally on board with that Does anyone else also like this category and would want to see it included??
  
  And again, only focusing on decks is my own primary reasoning behind also cutting the "Best Coin" or "Best Accessory" category - sorry; I know this is one you really enjoy, but we're gunna have to agree to disagree on it's inclusion for awards recognizing playing cards - no hard feelings

Btw, sorry to y'all for refering back and quoting so much of last year's discussions; it just that many of the same concerns regarding categories and whatnot always seem to be regurgitated over and over again and, as amusing as it is to debate back and forth on end, it's just easier to point back to the rational as to why many of the changes had been made in the first place in running last year's event and I hope y'all understand that this is only with very best intentions that we can keep things as clean and simple as possible and the DOTYs strictly to about the cards/decks.

Speaking of my personal opinions, I figure now is as good a time as any to bring up my usual gripes with this contest:
THERE NEEDS TO BE A 'BEST BICYCLE-BRANDED DECK' CATEGORY. I've been begging for this for years now to no avail. I could go on for days arguing this but the TL;DR version is that it takes a certain amount of skill to incorporate a design into a preexisting format. People will always argue whether or not Bicycle branding adds to or ruins a deck but that's neither here nor there. Whether you like it or not it's iconic and deserves it's own category for designs that incorporate it.

Rather than only 'Best Bicycle Deck' maybe we could broaden it to 'Best Branded Deck' as to include Tally-Ho? This was also a category I expressed support of adding in discussions here last year but, unfortunately, it didn't seem like there was too much enthusiasm from the broader community.

I would however suggest maybe considering to add the category of ‘Best Branded Deck’ – This would be where, for example, JR’s Tally Ho: Olive Edition or the Tally Ho: Cardistry Edition or any new Bicycle branded decks to have hit the market whether through KS projects or directly to retail would be contenders for recognition. I feel that these decks, considering that most of them (with the exception of JR's Legacy Edition) are typically designed with much more simple features, are not given quite the love they deserve despite often being some of the first decks people are exposed to from early on and the affordability and accessibility such mass produced branded decks provide to the market for collectors, magicians, cardists & game players alike. Plus, unlike many of the other categories, this would be one with such a defined parameter that a vast majority of decks released this past year just won’t qualify and make voting, IMHO, A LOT easier when having to select only from among the few that do. Also, I admit I gotta bit of a soft spot for the 'ol classics lol

And also, something worth considering is that if such an award category were to be inducted into the DOTYs, it'd pretty much be exclusive to USPCC and their trademarked brands and therefore, might encourage USPCC/Cartamundi to maybe participate and/or donate to the prize pool since, well, it would be like adding an award category special just for them and would be free promotion (not that they actually need it, but still lol) - especially for decks that might otherwise not ever even be nominated yet alone win. Besides, USPCC donated a few months ago a few decks to the Bicycle group on FB, so why not here, right? It's not like it would hurt to ask lol. And with more custom playing cards being introduced through major market retailers (ie. T11's partnership with Walgreens & Target, Walmart & Amazon exclusive bicycle decks, etc.) this might be a category we'd see grow in the coming years because, as vasta pointed out, these brands have been around for-ev-er and have undoubtedly attained icon-status with a pretty loyal cult-like following lol - so, maybe this would be a very worthy award category to include for recognition? Thougts? yay or nay?

COMBINE ALL THE XCM CATEGORIES INTO ONE. This has already been brought up (as it always is) before this thread was even 12 hours old but here's my argument- It doesn't matter if you cut, fan, spin, flourish, etc. Just vote for your favorite. If a good fanning deck is released during a particular year and it gets more votes than a good cutting deck then so be it. Cy Young's were just given out to the best pitchers in baseball. Not a separate award to the best fastball, off speed, change up pitcher, etc. the best pitcher, period. I believe it would behoove us to follow in MLB's path.

It's clear that the community is still pretty strongly split about these particular cateories and the proposal to just merge them into one is something I don't think should be implemented yet at this time. I do recognize that UC is largely made up of those that would put themselves into the collector camp over those of magic, cardistry and/or gameplay but I don't think we should be making changes that could/would alienate those that are passionate in cardistry by further reducing and diminishing deck design elements intended specifically for fanning or cardistry into one and the same. Just my 2 cents.

ADD A 'BEST PLAYING CARD ACCESSORY' CATEGORY. Whether it's a coin, a display case, a mini pizza box, etc. I think this would be a fun addition to the contest and replace the old 'Best Coin' category (which I personally always hated because this is UnitedCardists, not UnitedCoinists). Another idea could be to make two separate categories since there are so many different display cases released each year- 'Best Playing Card Display' and 'Best KS Add-On' or something of the like.

Let's maybe keep the spotllight of the DOTY awards only on the cards at this time since that's what we're all here for first and foremost. Again, we wanna keep things as streamlined as we can and often times extra accessories, while as fun as they can be, are not and should not be the focus of the hobby nor of the DOTYs. Besides, can you imagine keeping track of ALL the KS add-ons and playing card acessories to be released on top of the pleathora of decks cominng out all year long... OOF! [MURRAY] [MURRAY] [MURRAY]

. . . . .

Jeez. If I knew that all it would take is a contest to lure you back...

You know I couldn't stay away, even if I tried babe xo

[vasta41]

Would Jan. 10th - Jan. 31st be a more suitable voting period??

Works for me!

yes, we did have a 'Best Uncut' category in the past, but part of the reason it had been cut (haha, I'm still punny and you know it ) from our line-up is that we were/are trying to keep the DOTYs as streamlined as possible since having sooo many categories and feels of being overwhelmed was one expressed reason people had pointed to as choosing not to participate in the past.

Sounds good to me!

Rather than only 'Best Bicycle Deck' maybe we could broaden it to 'Best Branded Deck' as to include Tally-Ho?

I love it!

I do recognize that UC is largely made up of those that would put themselves into the collector camp over those of magic, cardistry and/or gameplay but I don't think we should be making changes that could/would alienate those that are passionate in cardistry by further reducing and diminishing deck design elements intended specifically for fanning or cardistry into one and the same. Just my 2 cents.

You mention before that you want to streamline the voting and reduce categories... but not here? Why not? We will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.

Let's maybe keep the spotllight of the DOTY awards only on the cards at this time since that's what we're all here for first and foremost.

Couldn't agree more!

Thanks for all your help, Pip.

[MagikFingerz]

Best Bicycle Branded: I agree with PipChick that "Best Branded" to include any decks that incorporates a brand would be the best title for this category, were it to be included. That would encapsulate not only other USPCC brands, but also the brands of other printers. Bicycle having their own category would be pretty damn biased, which is the last thing this contest needs to be.

Combining "ALL XCM" categories: Paul, you're talking like there are like 5 categories and things are out of control. There are only 2, which we have demonstrably explained again and again are quite different from each other. Using your logic we should only vote for Best Complete Deck rather than Best Ace, Joker, Courts etc.

Best Accessory: I vote no on this, for the same reason as we shouldn't have a Best Campaign category. This contest is for decks, not lots of other things that sometimes are included or a part of projects. People already feel like there are enough/too many categories, so the ones last on the priority list would be non-deck categories.

[vasta41]

Combining "ALL XCM" categories: Paul, you're talking like there are like 5 categories and things are out of control. There are only 2, which we have demonstrably explained again and again are quite different from each other. Using your logic we should only vote for Best Complete Deck rather than Best Ace, Joker, Courts etc.

I agree, they are very different. As subcategories. I will never see eye-to-eye with you people on this so I don't think there's any point in arguing this further except to say I think "XCM" should be one category (for voting in this contest, that is).

[BaconWise]

I will never see eye-to-eye with you people on this so I don't think there's any point in arguing this further except to say I think "XCM" should be one category (for voting in this contest, that is).

I always think of Tropic Thunder when I see that phrase

YouPeople.gif (816.72 KiB) Viewed 17977 times

[Eric Lee]

Here's my 2c (which is only worth 0.48 USD after forex. )

Best Branded: Interesting category, but just how would one decide what is Best Brand? For me, right now, it's too broad for us to be able to nail down just how it's the best. So a good description is needed to help with nominations and voting. I recall KS campaigns use to put Bicycle Branded on their decks as well just to help hit their target.

So I'm not sure just what criteria to use to decide best. Best representation of the brand, homage, just overall best deck using that brand? If it's the last part, then I'm not sure why we want a sub-category of best deck in UC's DOTY. Feels like a cheap consolation price like Ms Photogenic award in the Ms World/Universe.

Combining "ALL XCM" categories:
Best fanning may not necessary come from an XCM deck. Case in point: Randy's Draconian decks and Luxx Mandala decks. Both looks amazing in a fan, but they aren't meant to be cardistry specific decks. So I say keep both categories.

Best Accessory: Amy said it best with the uncut sheets last year. Let's keep it to Deck of the Year, nothing else. So no accessories, uncuts, coins, deckholders, storages, etc.

Transformation deck: I like the idea of Best Art deck. But perhaps merge with the Best Non-Poker deck? But include it in the description that Non-poker includes tarot and artistic decks. However would this open up the category to include ALL card game decks?

Don't forget to include a brief description for each category. Really helps with nominating and voting, especially for newbies!


BTW, Amy, we missed your puns and gifs. Others have tried, but none surpass your quality for better or worse.