Fable by Lotrek

[BaconWise]

so it might be late again. But it's Lotrek, so...

I have read this somewhere... Oh yeah almost on all forums pertaining to any deck every handled by the man. I mean, when is this statement ever NOT going be used.

I thought I also read Lotrek has or had "supposedly" worked all the flaws/kinks prior to-and/or during production to avoid these delays. Guess im wrong,

Tell me im wrong

Lotrek is a mysterious and meticulous creature. He is constantly pushing the technical limits of card design and printing processes. I think he gets so excited to share his new discoveries and creations that he gets surprised sometimes by delays outside of his control. I am new to Lotrek's world but I am finding out that the delay is worth it, for sure.

[Eric Lee]

Lotrek is a mysterious and meticulous creature. He is constantly pushing the technical limits of card design and printing processes.

That statement I believe is the core of the delays. Besides of course acts of God like flash fires in Greece, warehouse burning down, customs seizing and refusing to release his printed decks.... honestly, Lotrek's delays can be a case study on Murphy's Law for playing cards design and production.

But back to the topic, the latest update on Parlour playing cards tuckboxes delay explains Lotrek's delays so well.

We have some news about the production, and a few pictures from Lotrek. Yes, Lotrek (tuckboxes production) is late because he is a perfectionist.

The embossing plate for Dynastinae had a few issues and he is fixing it.

A little explanation about how the embossing plate:
When the plate is created (on metal) there is an expansion coefficient that has to be calculated based on the graphics. While carved with digital tooling machinery the plate warms up and the metal expands a bit. and when it cools down the position of the graphics should be at the same position as designed. Sometimes the coefficient is not correct because the graphics are very complex (our case), and the graphics cannot align with the foiled areas once the plate cools down. Therefore another plate has to be made, which takes some extra time.

Long-story-short: embossing plate has to be made again because it did not align with the golden foiler areas.

So yeah, now we know why Lotrek decks look so good and take so long. The machines just can't handle the intricate details well.

However if you look at the Chronos deck thread, it's actually progressing very fast and may well be the fastest Lotrek deck from start to finish! (just hope I don't jinx it! )

[Lotrek]

Foil is finished and tonight I'll do the final varnishing. The decks will be sent next week. I had a considerable delay in delivery of stock. It was scheduled for the 25th of August and it came on the 15th of September!
This delay gave me the idea to work on Chronos which is almost finished, too. It's really amazing the fact that from nothing to printed it took me 20 days with 2-3 day intervals between.

Anyway, here's a shot of the Fable back before the varnish. The red will become darker and it will be slightly shiny.

[Bradius]

I sure hope the central foil band doesn’t fade to black when the varnish is applied. It really pops nicely now.

[Strag]

This was my first time to purchase a Lotrek deck again after a long time as I was quite unhappy with his delays and multiple variants in the past but I thought this one would be delivered on time.

Clearly nothing has changed and I'll go back to not buying again in the future. I get that a lot of people think it's worth it and he's a perfectionist etc but it's just not for me...and that's ok. That's why we have choice.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[Adonael]

I was quite unhappy with his delays...I'll go back to not buying again

I really really struggle to imagine what kind of time-sensitive uses somebody could possibly have for a deck of cards which makes delivering exactly on time such an incredibly important imperative that it would otherwise not be worth having the deck at all.

[Strag]

I was quite unhappy with his delays...I'll go back to not buying again

I really really struggle to imagine what kind of time-sensitive uses somebody could possibly have for a deck of cards which makes delivering exactly on time such an incredibly important imperative that it would otherwise not be worth having the deck at all.

Interesting that you chose to snip out the half on my statement that you didn't criticize.

Even so I'll indulge you with my reasoning. It has nothing to do with "what would I do with it " and more to do with respect for the customer. He collected money in return for a promise that included delivery of goods at a specific time. What if it was a gift? What if I had other uses for that money in the meantime? I'm not in the business of giving interest free loans without prior approval and any product that I pay for that misses an expected delivery, I am always suspect.

Yes I know "that's Lotrek" and that's why I stopped buying from him for years. It's why I'll stop again. Don't expect that others will, after all he designs some amazing decks. Just not in a way that I want to continue to support.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[codybear]

Strag, I completely agree with you on your last statement.

It’s almost becoming the norm for Lotrek/Oath Playing cards to deliver late EVERY TIME!!

[MagikFingerz]

I don't think you can fault anyone for having the same stance as Strag. Had it been anyone other than Lotrek, people would have brought out their pitchforks a long time ago.

[alric]

I was quite unhappy with his delays...I'll go back to not buying again

I really really struggle to imagine what kind of time-sensitive uses somebody could possibly have for a deck of cards which makes delivering exactly on time such an incredibly important imperative that it would otherwise not be worth having the deck at all.

Lotrek is ultimately trying to make a living and run a business. As such, it's not unreasonable for us to expect some degree of professionalism in the way he conducts his busniess. You can't keep promising deadlines and continuously fail to meet them. I know Lotrek has every intention to be on time, why would he want to shit on his own business like that? But the bare fact remains that he cannot meet his promised deadlines due to the inevitable setbacks that always plague him. It's even worse when other artists rely on him on collaborations with them on their projects and causes them to be late as well. Case in point, TGW's project is currently delayed because he's waiting on Lotrek. I made a choice a while back I no longer want to do business with Lotrek. I just prefer to do business with people who are professional and reliable, that's just me. Do you think I'm a bad guy because of that? As expensive as his decks are, at the very least have some respect for the customers who pay such a high price for the decks. How much longer can people excuse this unprofessional conduct by saying, "That's just Lotrek being Lotrek", or "What's a Lotrek deck without delays?". It's pretty sad that people now expect delays every time Lotrek announces another deck.

I'm gonna bet there's going to be some Lotrek loyalist who's gonna respond to this post defending him by saying he always ultimately delivers, he doesn't scam anyone, he always communicates all through the delay, and that his decks are worth 10 times the delay. And all those points are absolutely true. But what is also true is that he is continually late and seems incapable of meeting his deadlines. It is what it is. I actually fear for Lotrek because if he keeps this up, most supporters (except for the most loyal of fanboys) will eventually be turned off. If I'm always late with my work, do you know what would happen to me? I'll get fired. I'm not saying Lotrek is some terrible asshole, far from it. From what I can tell, he's a genuinely nice and talented artist with the best of intentions that just can't get his shit together to produce a deck on time. That is no lie. I think his decks are some of the most innovative and beautiful works of art in the playing card industry, but I just can't get past the principle of his poor business practices.

[Bradius]

I get your points and respect your position.

As a low issue creators, he has limited time in the printers to print his decks. Same with deck cutting, foil applications, etc. A lot of his production opportunities are limited because he doesn’t own or opperate his own production equipment. Also, because he tries new production processes almost all the time, the risk of unforeseen problems is significantly higher than having USPCC and Cardimundi produce the cards. The same thing is typical in backing most any technology Kickstarter. It goes with the territory. It is not for every one. I think you agree it isn’t like Lotrek is lazy and unmotivated.

I respectfully disagree with your position that his lengthy production time shows a lack of professionalism. He is a professional craftsman. One of the top custom knife makers has an over one year waiting time for his knives. He is the best in his field and an exacting craftsman. It is professional for him to make the highest quality product, not the fastest.

[codybear]

Also, because he tries new production processes almost all the time,

Lotrek is no stranger to the playing card industry. As a matter of fact, he's no amateur when it comes to producing cards as we all see with the continuous quality of his work/decks. He's been at this for over 5+ years.

What Lotek brings on himself is by his own doings. Any person about to print 200 or 2000 uncut sheets to then cut into decks, you'd think they'd have all they're ducks in order before starting any production.

These delays are not only costly from the manufacturing aspect but also costly towards his customer base.

[hsbc]

Lotrek's decks, to me, straddle the line between cards and art - I think the situation is a lot more similar to a book or album, where moving the release date back just means it isn't quite finished yet and needs more time.

I'm under the impression that Lotrek basically prints and cuts the cards and tucks himself? Or with a team? I really have no idea but by all accounts it seems a lot more hands-on than a USPCC deck

[Harvonsgard]

I respectfully disagree with your position that his lengthy production time shows a lack of professionalism. He is a professional craftsman. One of the top custom knife makers has an over one year waiting time for his knives. He is the best in his field and an exacting craftsman. It is professional for him to make the highest quality product, not the fastest.

It is definetly kind of unprofessional to sell decks and give a dead line aka estimated shipping date and then constantly fail to deliver. A waiting time is not the same as delays. I can totally understand everyone that says no business with Lotrek.
That said, although my funds are limited and it really sucks for me to not have the funds for the Fable bundle available. I‘m in the it isn‘t that bad for me to avoid him-camp. The positive aspects of his decks overweight the only negative point by far for me personally. His decks are some of the best the market has to offer, especially since I love cards to be different from standard stocks, therefore I give him the interest free loan.

[Bradius]

My understanding is that Lotrek uses one of the best local printers to print the decks. They are solid printers, but don’t specialize in any laying cards. Lotrek has shown photos of himself at the printers, but the print shop has their own operators controlling the printing process. Because his orders are small, he has to wait until they have some free time from bigger order customers to give him time time to print his cards. I assume it is similar with the firm that does the hot foil stamping, although he is probably more technologically involved since his registration tolerances are insanely low. He also used to us a local playing card producer to cut the decks, but that fell apart. I think Lorek said his main printers are cutting the decks.

[sinjin7]

I respectfully disagree with your position that his lengthy production time shows a lack of professionalism. He is a professional craftsman. One of the top custom knife makers has an over one year waiting time for his knives. He is the best in his field and an exacting craftsman. It is professional for him to make the highest quality product, not the fastest.

I respectfully disagree with your position that his lengthy production time shows a lack of professionalism. He is a professional craftsman. One of the top custom knife makers has an over one year waiting time for his knives. He is the best in his field and an exacting craftsman. It is professional for him to make the highest quality product, not the fastest.

This is interesting because I also used to collect knives. Most of the top knife makers I've contracted with told me up front it will be 8-12 months before I get my knife. But the point I think you're missing is that it isn't about how long it takes, we all know top notch quality takes a lot of time. It's about delivering when they say they will, even if its a year out in the future. Most of the knife makers I worked with delivered in the time period they promised they would. I don't think anyone is saying the lengthy production time is what is unprofessional, its failing to deliver on the date you said you would, over and over again.

Part of being a professional, exacting craftsman is cutting down on the mistakes and sourcing your materials and facilities adequately so that these issues don't slow you down so you can keep your word on your estimated delivery dates. Look, I'm as big of a fan of Lotrek as there is. But he really needs to either tighten up his production methods, or bake an additional 6 months into his promised delivery dates. Or better yet, just make the decks first, and then put them up for sale so people can get them right away with no delays. I think all the comments here are meant to constructively criticize Lotrek for his benefit, not to tear him down. We all know the quality of Lotrek's character, so he has deservedly earned himself a lot of rope here. Having said that, there is an undeniable growing sense of fatigue out there.

[Cardians]

In 2019 this is what I have for Lotrek deliveries.

April - Black SILK, Arabesque Players Edition Silver
May - Blue SILK
June - LESS Test Run
July - Ambassador Signature Editions (Late)
August - Fable Craft Series & Fable Test Decks
October (My Guess) - Fable Official Edition

That's 6 decks not including Ambassador Signature & Fable official, 8 if you include those.

I give him much credit for those releases and many more to come..!

Keep up the great work Lotrek!
KW

[Harvonsgard]

April - Black SILK, ...

I guess you mean Red Silk.

[Adonael]

Interesting that you chose to snip out the half on my statement that you didn't criticize.

Don't see how it's interesting, why quote the entire thing when I just need the relevant part? The rest makes no difference or contribution whatsoever to my response. Oh yeah, the full comment is directly above mine too so...

Even so I'll indulge you with my reasoning.

Indulge me? Even so? Ha! What a rort. Apparently you just don't like being questioned, I thought this was a medium for discussion, how ridiculous.

If I'm always late with my work, do you know what would happen to me? I'll get fired.

It's nowhere near the same, you don't employ him, none of us do. You keep using the word 'professionalism', but I have never seen Lotrek conduct himself in any manner less than professionally. You're not a stakeholder, he's not your supplier, it isn't a business transaction. You are buying art from an artist.

It is professional for him to make the highest quality product, not the fastest.

Exactly.

but also costly towards his customer base.

A decision made by a customer is a personal one, because the only thing being affected here is feelings by those who in my opinion don't view what they do in a sensible light. You are acquiring art at the highest calibre in this field, not ordering a damn fast-food burger.

Firstly I will say that I appreciate seeing different perspectives even if I don't agree with them, I know that my personal perspective is decidedly not old school, but here it is. You chose to purchase one of his decks because you considered it worthy of that money, it was the best use of that money at the time and delays don't change that. You would not be doing anything significant with that money if you had not purchased the deck, because if you were then you wouldn't have purchased it, and furthermore if the deck had been released at a later date without the delays you would still be spending that money regardless. In short, no difference to you when it comes to this so-called 'loan', if you treat everything in life in a business sense (which is quite sad) then you certainly can't have passion, and if you don't have passion then what are you doing collecting anything?

Nobody likes delays, but apparently not many of you have ever used Kickstarter? Here of all places I would expect most of us to be familiar with it. I've backed close to 300 campaigns, and do you know how many delivered by the estimated date? I could probably count them on two hands. My original point still stands, that there is no effect on anybody and is certainly no justification for refusing to purchase any of his decks in the future. I could completely understand that point of view if it were possible to get the same or comparable product from somewhere else without a delay, but obviously that isn't the case, this isn't flat-pack furniture, so it simply makes no sense to me. If I were to buy a highly limited luxury piece of clothing from one of my favourite labels, do you think a mere delay is going to make me decide it's not worth it or lose interest in future products? Not on your life! I'm not seeing the reasoning here.

Besides, we've all seen that Lotrek has continued to make concerted efforts to acknowledge and address these issues, taking feedback on-board and obviously lamenting the fact that they haven't yet been completely ironed out. A good example of something successful is cutting down from 10(!) editions of Grotesk to usually two editions of a new release, which is something I certainly appreciate. Maybe he really is cursed? Even so, as shown above, he has still put out an impressive amount of work this year so far between his own decks and collaborations with others.

It's important to remember that what he does is unique and he's doing it himself locally, it's not as 'simple' as placing an order with USPCC and being fulfilled by GW, this is a uniquely crafted product and his processes can't be judged on the same terms. None of us want delays of course, and I don't think there's a one of us who don't feel a pang of disappointment when a delay is announced, but in a larger sense I also honestly just don't feel like it matters given his long track record of always delivering, lack of real world impact for not receiving on time, and the nature of what we're doing.

I think the solution is obvious, Lotrek needs his own scaled-down printing facility Any multi-millionaires around to invest some capital? Crowdfund it?

[Kurama]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't understand why no one pointed out... The stamps!

[Bradius]

Oh yes, stamps. Greek stamps. This part of his product can not be mentioned enough. I did mention stamps in post #10 in this discussion. It was one of my better posts IMHO.

[Bradius]

I have pulled out one of my Fable Craft decks. I know it is just basically Lotrek's standard court cards (yes, I agree. Points off for this. Lotrek, you could have nailed a fable custom courts. Oh well.)

I normally do not like dark stock on playing cards. However, I am really impressed with this deck anyway. I am warming to this dark stock. It adds a lot to the design. I am also glad it isn't that "foam" stock and a really nice paper stock used. The colors on the face side are really bright given they are printed over a dark stock. The aces are nice and give me an Arabian Nights vibe, especially so with the dark stock background.

I like the handling even more than when I first got them out. I am sure they are handling the same as before. Maybe I am just in a better mood today. The black foil in the center was a big fail. It just vanished in this version. I sure hope they show up as Lotrek's pre-varnish photo shows.

It isn't a fully custom court deck. If that is what you want, this isn't for you. It doesn't have a wild back design. If that is what you want, this deck isn't for you. Still, it does use three foils with lots of detail. From a standard courts perspective, I think it is a definite improvement from Ambassador decks. 28 of the Fable decks are still available as of this writing if anyone still wants to add to their order or get one (will not have to wait as long as I am for that deck). 69 Euro, with shipping included. Lots of Fable Craft decks available at 49 Euro each including shipping.

[portcullis]

Gotta agree, the sight of foreign stamps is one of the most exciting things about being a cardist. I've got a mate who's into philately so they don't go to waste. I'm kinda sad tho that the use of stamps is diminishing. I honestly don't remember the last time I received an order with English stamps. And GW also pre-prints labels, which is *blows raspberry* #thumbsdown

This post reminds me I have some Greek (yes, Lotrek) and Latvian stamps for my mate.

[Lotrek]

The Greek stamps will be graciously placed to the fluffy envelopes this Wednesday.

[Kurama]

The Greek stamps will be graciously placed to the fluffy envelopes this Wednesday.

Yesssssss

[Harvonsgard]

I unwrapped my Craft edition yesterday... The registration is quite aweful. I know that this is picky, but I can't help it, since once realized it really bugs me. The worst is, that neither the faces nor the back design is centered. The back is offset vertically; top border 2-3 mm, bottom border 5 mm and the faces are offset horizontally; left border is wider than the right border at my deck. Does anyone else realized this on his opened decks?
I know that this is just the Craft version, but I hope that this won't happen at the final edition...

Not to sound rude or coming of ungrateful, since Lotrek does awesome stuff for the card community and is overall a very nice guy and maybe I'm a tad more critical when having a Lotrek deck in hand, but at this price point I expect a bit more than USPC registration quality...

[Kurama]

Good day on the postal front... Got Greek stamps

Now I understand what Lotrek said about the red he found too shiny on the backs of the craft version (no registration issue with mine, so maybe it's bad luck of getting one that got through quality check). That red is flatter, but also way darker... Way more... Really... Like... A lot...

The diagonal on the final version is really showing this time, but I'm not sure I don't prefer the more bright (and shiny) red of the craft version.

Will try to post some pictures asap!

[Harvonsgard]

Will try to post some pictures asap!

Great to hear that the first final versions arrive.

[Kurama]

Will try to post some pictures asap!

Great to hear that the first final versions arrive.

[Harvonsgard]

Thanks for sharing. Looks pretty great. Can't wait to get mine .