Oink Oink playing cards om kickstarter

[BWarma]

The "Oink Oink Playing Cards" released on Kickstarter a couple of weeks ago and personally i think they are pretty cool. The link in https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ca ... =user_menu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Justin O.]

"highest quality"

*cries in collector*

[BaconWise]

It seems to be all the rage to half-ass deck designs these days. I have said this before, but a clever icon with standard faces does not equal a good deck. In this case, I can't even say the icon is clever. This design has no effort, no heart (aside from the heart suits, but that doesn't count). I am not part of their target cardistry demographic, really. That being said, I can't understand why cardists aren't demanding more from designers.

[oddsmaker003]

What qualifies as a half ass deck? Are all minimalist decks created for cardistry half ass or just a few? Personally I say if this was marketed for collectors half- assed doesn't even begin to describe it, however, if its marketed towards cardistry it wouldn't exactly be half assed. It would be spot on for the audience.
Here is the difference between cardistry decks and collector decks ( for lack of better terms). They take the same amount of work to be successful. When producing collector decks the time is spent on the product itself and the artist for the most part allows the art to do the talking. With cardistry decks the effort is spent on developing a following and creating hype. Once this is established the producer doesn't have a elaborate design, just something that group likes.

[Justin O.]

Half-assed is a design I could literally make in 5 minutes. Minimalism is an artistic style, and like all artistic styles there are ways to do it well, and there are ways to do it extremely poorly. This is the second one. There are a lot of ways you could make this design much more interesting and dynamic from a design perspective, but this designer chose to go an extremely low-effort route. And that always makes it feel like they are just in it to make a quick buck, not actually to create an interesting or worthwhile product for their community.

[Harvonsgard]

There was never a thread deserving this gif more than this thread!

[oddsmaker003]

Literally, you couldn’t do this in 5 min. Even if you could it would take a lot longer than that to develop a following. It is very common for artists to be labeled as Lazy or giving low effort on this site. What is this based on? Perhaps the artist had a specific audience and this is exactly what he was trying to achieve. The only real crime this artist committed is not coming to this site and ask permission to print a deck of cards.

[Justin O.]

If I knew how to make a gif I would make one of me making this card back AND tuck in less than 5 minutes, I'm not even kidding. If you know how I could screen share Illustrator I could show you how to do this. All of it. In 5 minutes. This is lower than low-effort, this is the lowest effort.

The crime is that the designer is asking $10 for the laziest design printed by HCPCC, and has the gall to claim that "this deck will be of the highest quality.". Having a following doesn't mean you get to churn out garbage, call it great, and then charge people USPCC MSRP for it, and laugh all the way to the bank because of the children that idolize Cardists and buy into the hype on their parent's dime. This deck is worse than Anyone Worldwide, and they are the poster child brand for abusing the Hype Engine that Zach got going so strong.

Why do I care when I can just not buy one if I don't like it? Because it perpetuates the biggest problem this community has: Shitty designers hyping up shitty designs to make a quick buck off of fans that don't know any better. Snake Oil salesmen.

Is that harsh? Sure. Am I a collector elitist? Absolutely.

Credit where credit is due: It's not. It's not due here. This is the worst (hype) deck I have ever seen.

[Harvonsgard]

Literally, you couldn’t do this in 5 min. Even if you could it would take a lot longer than that to develop a following. It is very common for artists to be labeled as Lazy or giving low effort on this site. What is this based on? Perhaps the artist had a specific audience and this is exactly what he was trying to achieve. The only real crime this artist committed is not coming to this site and ask permission to print a deck of cards.

I could do this in 15 min. And I would have to use MS paint to do it, because I have no skills (and advanced software) in graphic design at all. But slapping an emoji on a pink card back isn't that hard of a task even for me. The overall design is so empty and lacks details that it definetly screams to be labeled low-effort.
But it doesn't matter anyways. For example, I consider A1 dot as one of my favorite decks of all time. I love it's zen-like simplicity. It is aestheticly pleasing to me and works great with cardistry, especially isolations and packet cuts. That is all that counts to me and my wallet. I don't mind if it takes less than 30 sec to come up with it. On the other hand UUSI for example. While I certainly pay respect to the craftmanship behind the design (handdrawn templates, etc.), it doesn't matter to me when making a purchase decision, do I like what I see or not, is again the only important factor to me.

The deck is what it is - a draft by kids, and there is nothing wrong with it. (as in, they are free to bring it to kickstarter, designwise there is a lot wrong with this deck draft)
The opinions expressed by members in this forum are what they are - opinions, that are free to be expressed, and there is nothing wrong with it.


This deck lacks (intentional or not) a lot, to be just even close to what would get into consideration of a purchase, for me personally.

[Justin O.]

Literally, you couldn’t do this in 5 min.

I owe you an apology. This took me closer to 7 minutes.

Edit: Haha, I just realized I mirrored the right 'OINK' instead of rotating it. 7 Minutes 3 seconds.

[Harvonsgard]

This is the worst (hype) deck I have ever seen.

Wait a sec... hasn't there to be a hype, to call it a hype deck? This isn't even funded, therefore I can't really see a hype.

[Justin O.]

OK.

It was bugging me, I spent another 3 minutes cleaning up the tuck.

[Adonael]

another 3 minutes

I hope you don't turn to the dark side, you could be a verified cardistry deck designer in 10 minutes! Think about it, The Justin O's Deck, the back design looks like mirrored bowls of 'Justin O's' cereal which is shaped like J's and O's, with a spoon resting off the edge (to the corner of the card for fans), the courts are holding cereal bowls and spoons so they can be counted as 'completely custom', and the tuck looks like a cereal box

Pretty sure hype is a sort of style by now lol. The kind where there is no substance?

[flashcards]

This is not a cardisty deck. It is a deck produced by a cardist. If cardistry didn't exist, would you buy this deck? At Ebay prices?

[Harvonsgard]

This is not a cardisty deck. It is a deck produced by a cardist.

That is kind of what a cardistry deck is, ain't it? I don't use labels, since they either are kind of always highly subjective and everybody defines them the way they want or, kind off a overlap, they are just hollow marketing buzz words. For me all cards are just playing cards. The background of the creator or the intended target audience is not relevant to me. But If I would have to define "cardistry deck", I would say yah, fontaines are a cardistry deck since they were created from a cardist to do cardistry with.

[Adonael]

No question that the dictionary definition of 'Cardistry Deck' would just be a picture of Fontaines lol.

[oddsmaker003]

At EBay prices!?!?!! I wouldn’t buy them at to use at retail price of $15 or $22 whatever AND CARDISTRY is a thing. But Fontaine is by far the most successful card producing company. BY FARRRRRR! Second is likely ANYONE. Look at the decks though. We can all agree these decks are not artistic. Does it mean the creator is lazy? I don’t think so considering it’s what the majority of card buyers want. Collectors may have been the dominate market in the past but that isn’t the case with the current hype cardistry decks.


Justin put it on KS to see if it funds. If it does I will fulfill it with no fees. I’m not being facetious I’m honestly curious and that sounds like a good experiment. Maybe do a different 7 minute design though so this creator doesn’t get pissed? Seriously you always see people saying it’s so easy anyone could do it let’s see how much truth there is to it. I think the work for cardistry decks is in the promotional process rather than design but I could totally be wrong, maybe anyone can do it.

[Adonael]

Anyone can definitely do it design-wise, and though I've mentioned elsewhere I don't think my introverted self could do the promotional aspect, I may just test the theory anyway to have some (probably crash and burn) fun. I'll be honest though, I don't blame Zach for what the Fontaines etc have caused, I've read through his first IndieGoGo and subsequent KS campaigns, he was just responding to demand and then the demand simply never slowed down. It was organic. Purposely putting as little effort into the deck itself as possible, and then attempting to use hype or novelty as a business model is not organic, and is what we have a flood of now.

[Decknowledgy]

Not all cardistry decks are trash and lazy-designed, but this also doesn't mean that big cardistry brands aren't feeding off the fame and purposefully neglecting the importance of design. The scene of cardistry is judged not by how good or how bad a design is, most of the times not even how flashy the cards are, but WHICH CARDIST MARKETS THE DECKS.

It's irrelevant to talk design in cardistry because that's not the determining factor for sales. The old Aviator decks were once a thing in the cardistry world but are like the ugliest basic deck out there. Why was it popular? Because D&D and Art of Play were using and marketing the deck. Period. Fontaine teamed up with Carrot and Guess. Why? To sell the brand names, all hype brands among teenagers. I wouldn't even be surprised if they eventually did one with Supreme.

So the way to sell a cardistry deck---targeting solely for cardistry---is to have a well-known cardist market the cards and produce a cinematic performance video plus sick beats. That's all there is.

So the market will judge whether this deck will fund or not, and the figures will speak for themselves:

[akicer]

I think the work for cardistry decks is in the promotional process rather than design but I could totally be wrong, maybe anyone can do it.

I think for the successful cardistry brands like fontaine/anyone, playing cards is just a by-product or accessories to their main product - cardistry videos or other cardistry related stuff. I'm not sure about fontaine but for anyone, they are famous before their first playing cards release. It's just like nowadays famous people create their own brand and sell the cheap cloths with not much design but high price, no difference.

I agree with you that the good-selling cardistry decks is a results of good advertisement or efforts of creating hype, but 1. design-wise they are lazy 2. there are just that many of successful cardistry teams out there, more designer who has no such fan boys now creating decks naming after cardistry and sell their cheap designs (like this one). Are you sure this designer has a promotional process as well? I'm actually not sure whether they are able to get any meaningful support from cardists .

To summarize, I believe a well-know cardistry team/brand makes a cardistry deck sell good. Without that, creating a cardistry deck and then try hard promoting the brand cannot lead to a successful sell (I can only think of Fontaine fells into this category when they came out first).

[Justin O.]

At EBay prices!?!?!! I wouldn’t buy them at to use at retail price of $15 or $22 whatever AND CARDISTRY is a thing. But Fontaine is by far the most successful card producing company. BY FARRRRRR! Second is likely ANYONE. Look at the decks though. We can all agree these decks are not artistic. Does it mean the creator is lazy? I don’t think so considering it’s what the majority of card buyers want. Collectors may have been the dominate market in the past but that isn’t the case with the current hype cardistry decks.


Justin put it on KS to see if it funds. If it does I will fulfill it with no fees. I’m not being facetious I’m honestly curious and that sounds like a good experiment. Maybe do a different 7 minute design though so this creator doesn’t get pissed? Seriously you always see people saying it’s so easy anyone could do it let’s see how much truth there is to it. I think the work for cardistry decks is in the promotional process rather than design but I could totally be wrong, maybe anyone can do it.

I don’t think these designs are what the majority of card buyers want, I think it is a vocal minority that would literally buy a deck of cards modeled after shit. Oh wait, they do, the poop emoji decks exists. And sells. I know that’s a little reductive, but I feel like the point stands up regardless.

I also don’t think these brands are the most successful card producing companies, I think companies like Ellusionist and T11 outsell them by leagues. By marks of tens of thousands.

Unfortunately my hobby doesn’t make me a celebrity to 13 year olds, I don’t think I would have the ‘parent’s bankroll’ power flooding my pledges to make a project I made successful. Which is especially going to bite when I do launch a Kickstarter for a deck of cards that I spent more than 7 (10 if you include cropping) minutes on, that might actually be worth the money I am asking for it.

But that’s my whole point. I’m not denying that these cardists are talented cardists, I am criticizing that they don’t seem to have any desire to produce something of worth, because they know they don’t have to, because they know they can only spend 7(10) minutes on their product and sell it for $10-$25 dollars, fill every seat in the stadium, and pretend like they are making something of worth and quality. And that’s not even touching on the state of the reseller market, bots, and how their sales model encourages this negative loop in a way that reads as a smurf-you to the people that support them at all.

[BaconWise]

They take the same amount of work to be successful.

This isn't a fair comparison. You are comparing years of design theory, artistic ability, and desire to create an experience, to someone who has a great Instagram account. Yes, it can take a lot of work for a cardist to develop a following, but it doesn't mean they should have license to slap clipart on a deck and call it good for the community. And before you say it, yes, I understand that collecting is entirely subjective. Keep in mind, this is my point of view and I understand tastes can vary widely. I've said it before that I am not a cardist.

However, we constantly see thoughtful, innovative, and unique designs barely get funded or miss the funding goal entirely. Then a popular cardist can slap a couple of clipart letters or dots or pigs or squares on the back of a standard deck of cards and make a fortune. Successful? Yes. I guess it boils down to intent. Is the designer looking to create an experience, or create profit. Nothing wrong with capitalism or striving for both goals, but it's hard to see how this deck adds to the community in any meaningful way.

[robcan0630]

Nothing wrong with capitalism or striving for both goals, but it's hard to see how this deck adds to the community in any meaningful way.

I think this sums it up for me as well.

[oddsmaker003]

They take the same amount of work to be successful.

This isn't a fair comparison. You are comparing years of design theory, artistic ability, and desire to create an experience, to someone who has a great Instagram account. Yes, it can take a lot of work for a cardist to develop a following, but it doesn't mean they should have license to slap clipart on a deck and call it good for the community. And before you say it, yes, I understand that collecting is entirely subjective. Keep in mind, this is my point of view and I understand tastes can vary widely. I've said it before that I am not a cardist.

However, we constantly see thoughtful, innovative, and unique designs barely get funded or miss the funding goal entirely. Then a popular cardist can slap a couple of clipart letters or dots or pigs or squares on the back of a standard deck of cards and make a fortune. Successful? Yes. I guess it boils down to intent. Is the designer looking to create an experience, or create profit. Nothing wrong with capitalism or striving for both goals, but it's hard to see how this deck adds to the community in any meaningful way.

So how does the community prevent this? 1) don't buy the product 2) help the designer out. How many people in this forum bother to message the person who created this and give him a few tips? Maybe even say look we have a place on the UC that you can post to get help with this design. We have plenty of experiance on this board to help make your project the best it can be. I know a few of you do that on occasion but this goes better for the UC community rather than attacking the designer personally. Here is how it appears to go down on this forum.
Step 1: Member posts deck for no other reason than to rally the crew
Step 2: In replies 1-3 someone Trashes the deck.
Step 3: The next comment personally attacks the creator/designer.

This results in these people going along doing what they do then if the deck gets funded ( which some do) two things happen 1) The designer disregards the opinions of UC members from that point forward so any hope of correcting the problem is gone. 2) They keep doing the same stupid **** over and over.
Meanwhile, people leave UC for instagram in part because they get constructive feedback on their projects without the personal attacks. Speaking of which I'm going to go post an upcoming project in the design section so I don't find my deck in this section again

[Justin O.]

Yeah, that is what I love about UC.

[hsbc]

But Fontaine is by far the most successful card producing company. BY FARRRRRR! Second is likely ANYONE. Look at the decks though. We can all agree these decks are not artistic.

I actually disagree, especially regarding Anyone - lots of their designs are simple (and I hate about half of them) but they're not bad per se

[words].... Meanwhile, people leave UC for instagram in part because they get constructive feedback on their projects without the personal attacks.

Yep, I would be more open about inviting people to UC but it's tough when every other thread is just people talking about how awful the deck is

[oddsmaker003]

But Fontaine is by far the most successful card producing company. BY FARRRRRR! Second is likely ANYONE. Look at the decks though. We can all agree these decks are not artistic.

I actually disagree, especially regarding Anyone - lots of their designs are simple (and I hate about half of them) but they're not bad per se

[words].... Meanwhile, people leave UC for instagram in part because they get constructive feedback on their projects without the personal attacks.

Yep, I would be more open about inviting people to UC but it's tough when every other thread is just people talking about how awful the deck is

You don't think $500,000 a year for fontaine is towards the top of independents? I would have thought that was closer to the top. I was thinking at $18 a deck anyone would be close as well but I could be wrong. I think you misread what I was saying or meant. Everyone has their own opinion and some of these decks are awful. I was referring to the personal attacks. Carry on

[Adonael]

There is definitely a lot wrong with unfettered capitalism, it's just a necessary heavily flawed stepping stone to something better we haven't seen yet, but that's a whole other can of worms. I do understand the point about the new deck section seeming a bit negative lately, but on the other hand there has also been so much crap. Part of the problem is mindset, if a deck is in the drafting section it's asking for feedback and invites constructive criticism, unfortunately that section isn't very active but I do feel it's quite supportive. However if it's already been printed or is part of an ongoing campaign the creator is saying 'this is worth your money how it is', which can feel a bit like a slap in the face for some of the stuff we see! Constructive feedback should be sought before the campaign stage.

[BaconWise]

I'm not under any illusion that the discussion in these threads has any measurable negative impact on the campaigns. A good example would be the Wild Boar deck. That thread spiraled out of control and there was a good degree of criticism. However, the deck did just fine. We're all just picky in our corner of the internet.
Adonael is right: the custom drafting board is where I think the partnership of designers and UC members really shines. Perhaps if the creator had known about the drafting board before launch, he might have received valuable feedback. Who knows? As it stands, the first time we are seeing the deck is in launch mode and it does nothing to stand out - another resident of Meh-ville. I love seeing designers interact on UC. It lets me know they aren't afraid to put their work in progress out there in front of discerning eyes and try to improve their work and put in more effort. I would love to see more of that.

[Harvonsgard]

There is definitely a lot wrong with unfettered capitalism,

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