Cloud 9 Playing Cards / Live KS

[Decknowledgy]

First-time creator
＊52 custom cards, 2 custom identical Jokers, Double Backer and Special Gaff card, all wrapped into the custom tuck box, with a few secrets included
＊Crushed Bee stock by USPCC

[Magic Tapp]

Thanks for this. Oh boy - I do not even know where to start on this. Firstly, there is a completely unrealistic funding goal, particularly given that he is planning to print with USPCC. This shows that he either does not understand what he is doing or, worse, there is something dodgy going on there. There is no way in the world he would manage to print a USPCC minimum order for a thousand quid.

Then there is the design that looks like something a 5-year old would draw. And the back is not far behind either.

[macstrat]

Then there is the design that looks like something a 5-year old would draw. And the back is not far behind either.

you beat me to it

[Decknowledgy]

I appreciate the artwork on the faces actually, and if I were to say a good representation of minimalism without being lazy and using standard courts, this deck would be it

Other decks with those mirrored single-object back design only customize the back, the jokers, and the aces. This one is different, it's fully custom with attention to pip and font design. I like haha

[sms69x]

I would proceed very cautiously on this one. A goal of $1.305 for a USPCC deck with Bee stock is completely irrealistic, I would expect something around $8K - $10K. Nowhere in the KS page it is mentioned that he will be financing the difference, so, most likely if the deck gets funded it will not be produced.

[theCapraAegagrus]

The back design and tuck box are both awful. So is the lack of overall color.

[Decknowledgy]

I would proceed very cautiously on this one. A goal of $1.305 for a USPCC deck with Bee stock is completely irrealistic, I would expect something around $8K - $10K. Nowhere in the KS page it is mentioned that he will be financing the difference, so, most likely if the deck gets funded it will not be produced.

I would take this into serious consideration even if I like it, thanks for more details on this

[vasta41]

All money aside I think this is cute but not for me. Also there's no way USPCC is going to print these with those small borders in the renders. I'm curious what the creator has to say about the low funding goal?

[vedus]

Great idea. Cartoonishly bad execution.

[Decknowledgy]

Their replies:

Thank you for your kind words about our design, that means a lot to us! We are aware of our cost to make Cloud 9 real, thats why we need your support throught kickstarter campaign. We'd be totally grateful for promoting us on your social media.

We are going ahead regardless of the Kickstarter funding, but we're still hopeful of smashing our target!

We're aiming to print 2,500 decks!

Are you serious...

One thing I would critique on the design is the awkward positioning of the hand of the Queens holding the balloon. Either the thumb is positioned oppositely, or the hand has to be drawn behind the string, depending on which hand belongs to the upright Queen.

[vasta41]

We are going ahead regardless of the Kickstarter funding, but we're still hopeful of smashing our target!

WOW. Good luck with that.

[PipChick]

Their replies:

We are going ahead regardless of the Kickstarter funding, but we're still hopeful of smashing our target!

this is most certainly a glaring red flag waaaayy too hard to ignore...

One thing I would critique on the design is the awkward positioning of the hand of the Queens holding the balloon. Either the thumb is positioned oppositely, or the hand has to be drawn behind the string, depending on which hand belongs to the upright Queen.

yep, those Queens' hands def look to be wrong - nice catch there!

[Magic Tapp]

2,500 decks printed by USPCC for a thousand pounds sterling? It is becoming abundantly clear that they have no idea what they are getting into or thought it is an easy way to scam people.

[Decknowledgy]

I'm trying to get in contact by PM with the creator, but it seems now with KS's update I can't reach any of my backed creators through the normal "Contact Me" button. It just stays on the campaign page. Is anyone having the same issue?

[vasta41]

I'm trying to get in contact by PM with the creator, but it seems now with KS's update I can't reach any of my backed creators through the normal "Contact Me" button. It just stays on the campaign page. Is anyone having the same issue?

Yes, same issue. Tried multiple browsers too. Site glitch. A catch22 would be if we tried to contact KS letting them know we can send messages but we run into the same problem

[Magic Tapp]

Just tried hitting the contact button on a couple of projects through my iPhone app and seemed to get through without a problem. Try your phone app - may work there.

[Decknowledgy]

I sent KS some troubleshooting and it's resolved now on the desktop sites. So I did contact the creator and this is what I got

My message:

Hi,

I'm liking the design of the deck really much, but the funding goal is really what's holding me back. Aiming for 2,500 decks printed by USPCC with £1,000 goal seems obviously impossible to achieve. If eventually you have gathered a little just over £1,000, have you calculated how many decks could be produced and shipped according to that amount, especially given that it's the expensive USPCC printing and US shipping cost?

There is a playing card forum where people are already showing signs of concerns towards the finances of this project. So that's why I'm so keen to get the details straight trying to avoid this project not fulfilling and dropping dead in the middle after being funded.

Thanks,
Ted

Their response:

Hi Ted

Thanks for your message and it’s a valid point for a start-up.

However, we don’t need the Kickstarter funds to launch; we have cash reserves already. We have other jobs and income!

Please do let me know the forum and we can allay any concerns.

Best wishes

Andrew (one of the founders)

I think this is reassuring enough? Looks like they're all-in to make this project happen and probably loves the creation so much themselves

[ICantShuffle]

Why are they using Kickstarter, then? Isn't that kind of not the point of Kickstarter?

If they're going to print anyway, I wouldn't bother backing.

[JuFiN]

Kickstarter really drastically increases exposure. So while it is kinda against the spirit of Kickstarter to find a deck when you don’t need funding it is pretty common practice anyway.

[vasta41]

I see no problem with it because I wouldn't expect a creator to produce a deck on KS without putting in any personal funds whatsoever.

[PipChick]

If they're going to print anyway, I wouldn't bother backing.

I agree; like why would I or anyone else wanna take the risk of ponying up our cash to back this project on the blinded faith of a first-time creator that they're gunna keep their word of largely financing this project on their own to get these decks printed when I could just wait and see if they actually do and prove that this isn't the scam it seems to reek of; in which case, I can always get the deck later after production anyways - that is of course if I actually wanted this deck... which I don't. I really, really don't.

#sorrynotsorry

[Decknowledgy]

I would see this as a change of how KS is being operated by certain creators, like TCC and Bocopo are very clear examples of how products have already been produced but they are using KS as a marketing trial-and-error. My analysis of this project is similar, but since this creator is not so much of an established company, they might be exploring the market to see how well people react to their project to avoid printing "their dream" but realizing that the market hates their design and losing all their money. For me this is a pretty smart market trial to avoid failure, and I would do the same if I hadn't known that design and playing card forums existed. These test runs are clearly suitable for forum and early reviews, like how Jetsetters does it, and I agree that Kickstarter is definitely not the place to test your designs when clearly you're proceeding to produce your stuff one way or another.

The sad truth is KS has now been evolved by companies that tweak the purpose of the site.
(Not to mention plagiarism )

Update: In their latest FAQ section update they explained as follows

"Your Kickstarter target is quite low. How will you produce the cards?"

We have been planning DifferentDecks for nearly four years and working on the Cloud 9 deck for a long time too. Rys and Andrew, the founders, have jobs and have been saving to have cash to take the project forward.

We wanted to use Kickstarter to sell some decks, but also to see what the reaction was to our cards. This our first deck and we really want to get it right. We really hoped that others would love Cloud 9 too! As we write this, we are 10 hours into the project and over halfway to our target, so it feels really good!

[STLBluesNut]

For some reason, I like the card backs. Perhaps it's the color or something, but I like them. However, I just can't do the courts. I like them more than standard courts but it is just not enough. I like the idea of the balloon pips and number cards.

Perhaps if this was sub $10. $13 plus shipping, not for me.

Sent from my Galaxy 8 using Tapatalk

[JuFiN]

I would see this as a change of how KS is being operated by certain creators, like TCC and Bocopo are very clear examples of how products have already been produced but they are using KS as a marketing trial-and-error. My analysis of this project is similar, but since this creator is not so much of an established company, they might be exploring the market to see how well people react to their project to avoid printing "their dream" but realizing that the market hates their design and losing all their money. For me this is a pretty smart market trial to avoid failure, and I would do the same if I hadn't known that design and playing card forums existed. These test runs are clearly suitable for forum and early reviews, like how Jetsetters does it, and I agree that Kickstarter is definitely not the place to test your designs when clearly you're proceeding to produce your stuff one way or another.

The sad truth is KS has now been evolved by companies that tweak the purpose of the site.
(Not to mention plagiarism )

This would make sense if their goal was the same as their cost, that would ensure that they only produce a deck so long as there is atleast enough demand that they are guaranteed to break even. As is, if they hit their goal of 1k (which they almost definitely will) but only hit 1k they still are putting up huge risk in printing. So the whole argument that KS prevents them from producing a deck that does not have economic viability doesnt really hold up here. Which is why low funding goals are inherently suspicious. What do they do if they only barely fund, all of a sudden they have to either pony up a large amount of money for something that they will probably not be able to sell off at a profit, atleast not any time soon, or screw over the backers by not delivering or delivering something inferior.

If I genuinely wanted to create a deck of cards I think the only thing worse than not funding would be funding at a level substantially lower than the needed funds to actually print.

For a company like TCC its quite different. They have already printed the decks and use kickstarter basically exclusively as a way to attract western consumers who are willing to pay big money for the decks. The cost has already been payed and now they are using kickstarter to turn that into profit, not as a way to avoid risk. Many of their decks that they try to fund can be found on chinese commerce sites before during and after the campaign at a lower cost than on kickstarter. But westerners dont see those sites and TCC takes advantage of this to sell them overseas at a markup.

So the only people that really DOES apply to are people like kings wild, Thirdway industries and other independent creators who probably COULD personally fund a deck but it would be a huge risk and they would be substantially hurt should that deck not sell. Using kickstarter to fund for them eliminates that risk because if the demand isn't there they simply don't print the deck, or have a chance to tweak it and try again.

For some reason, I like the card backs. Perhaps it's the color or something, but I like them. However, I just can't do the courts. I like them more than standard courts but it is just not enough. I like the idea of the balloon pips and number cards.

I also am actually a big fan of the art (especially the balloon pips on the number cards) but the faces are a little too similar for me, basically repeating courts. If each court was more unique I think I would actually consider backing despite funding goal worries.

[differentdecks]

Hi!

This is Andrew, one of the founders of DifferentDecks.

Thanks for getting involved with our Cloud 9 deck! We're so excited that it is progressing well and that there's lots of interest. It's our first deck and a long time in the planning. That said, we welcome all comments and guidance. We've placed some answers to some of the queries on our FAQs on Kickstarter, but my co-founder, Rys, and I would be really happy to answer any other questions or to chat to you.

If the Cloud 9 deck isn't your thing, keep watching us, as we have lots (lots!) of ideas and hope to be producing cards for years to come. Even Dan & Dave had to start somewhere!

Best wishes

Andrew

[STLBluesNut]

Well, I like the back of the cards. I like the balloon pips. I don't care too much for the courts but they fit the theme. The big thing keeping me away from this is the court bodies. All of the bodies are the exact same between the king, queen and jack with just the faces changed.

If all 4 kings were different, not just the faces, I may have let it slide. Perhaps I am just too picky.

Also, for $13, the tuck should have some embossing or foil. The stock is not specified for the tick either. Matte or glossy? I am assuming glossy.

Sent from my Galaxy 8 using Tapatalk

[theCapraAegagrus]

...If the Cloud 9 deck isn't your thing, keep watching us, as we have lots (lots!) of ideas and hope to be producing cards for years to come. Even Dan & Dave had to start somewhere!

Best wishes

Andrew

Hmm...

Welcome to UC, Andrew.

May my subjective wrath haunt your dreams...

[Harvonsgard]

Hi!

This is Andrew, one of the founders of DifferentDecks.

Thanks for getting involved with our Cloud 9 deck! We're so excited that it is progressing well and that there's lots of interest. It's our first deck and a long time in the planning. That said, we welcome all comments and guidance. We've placed some answers to some of the queries on our FAQs on Kickstarter, but my co-founder, Rys, and I would be really happy to answer any other questions or to chat to you.

If the Cloud 9 deck isn't your thing, keep watching us, as we have lots (lots!) of ideas and hope to be producing cards for years to come. Even Dan & Dave had to start somewhere!

Best wishes

Andrew

Pretty cool that you guys came to answer some questions. I shared your campaign on reddit. And just like the most people here, 80 had to think about the deck because of the court cards. But overall the critique was mostly positive.

The design aside, I understand the points that where made to go on kickstarter, but I still don't get why the goal is so low.

Anyways, all the best with your project.